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John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. I’m John Shegerian and I’m so excited to have with us today, Mark Hawkinson, he’s the president of Technical Solutions for ABM. Welcome to the Impact podcast, Mark.

Mark Hawkinson: Thank you, John. Happy to be here.

John: You know, we’re going to get into everything that’s going on now in the world with regard to ESG and decarbonization and circular economy. But we did talk a little bit off the air before we started the show. I’m sitting in Fresno, we’ve sort of become very, how do I say this, used to the big fires in California and the bad air that’s happened here and especially the last seven to ten years, but you’re sitting in Chicago today, in your Chicago office, and the air is pretty bad there, as well, from the Canadian fires and it’s a, it’s a great reminder of why we do this show and why we have great people like you representing amazing brands like ABM that’s doing very important work to help decarbonize this country and the world, so we could help clean the air, clean our environment, and just make the world a better place. So I’m so honored that you’re with us today and thankful for all the great work that you and your colleagues at ABM are doing. Mark before we get talking about ABM, for our listeners and viewers that want to find ABM and Mark and his colleagues, they could go to www.abm.com. Share a little bit about the Mark Hawkinson story, where you grew up, and how you even got to this wonderful platform and position that you have now as the president of Technical Solutions at ABM.

Mark: Yeah, thanks, John. Well, I can tell you, I’ve had an amazing ride. I’m 42 years old and I was born in Rust Belt Town, Rockford Illinois about 70 miles Northwest of Chicago. When I was eight we left. My father, ex-military, put himself through college with the GI Bill and served our country for a couple years and really was a self-made man. You know, came from very humble beginnings. I was really fortunate I had a very stable nuclear family and that’s something that’s really important to me and I think I take some of that into my leadership in business as well. And you know, we move from place to place because of his career. So got to experience all different parts of the country as a result of that. And ended up settling down in Chicago, actually, for college and spent four years at a very small private school called North Central College. So, shout out to my friends in Naperville, Illinois. Majored in international business with a specialization in Spanish and like a lot of young kids coming out of college, you know, you have a vision at some point when you’re younger and what you’re going to be when you grow up, whether you’re going to be a doctor or a lawyer or a star NFL football player. And you know, this is interesting because I spent most of my college career and ran track and field and is always very competitive in sports and just thrive in competition. And I had an opportunity with several organizations coming out of school and I literally, you know, was approached by ABM. And I had no idea who the heck ABM was at that time.

And this is back in 2002, and I would say that ABM at the time was probably the biggest company you never heard of. So you’ll see our logos a lot. Like, if you’re flying in an airport, you’ll see a lot of ABM team members, whether they’re assisting a passenger, changing a lightbulb, cleaning a restroom. You might see them in a lot of commercial office buildings where we have a lot of engineers stationed on-site that maintain those facilities. So I was kind of like, okay, this is just a service business, a lot of labor, a lot of people, doesn’t feel real sexy, but I can tell the more time I spent with some of the leaders that were approaching me, I was like, “You know what, this place’s culture is pretty remarkable.” And that’s kind of what attracted me to the organization. I had no plans to go into the facility space whatsoever. So it was just pure circumstance, frankly. And, you know, at that time I had the opportunity to move to Atlanta once I started. So I relocated from the Chicago area and have spent all 20 years of my career in the Atlanta market.

I started out as an intern really just learning the ropes on the marketing side and sales side representing a lot of the different service segments that ABM, at that point in time, provided to clients such as janitorial elevator services, lighting services, engineering services, was successful for a year and really the success was garnered from the team that was supporting me but then really just willing to roll my sleeves up and learn the business and not be afraid to get out in the field. Understand what our front line was going through and the challenges that they had, understanding what the client needs, and building, you know, my leadership from the ground up. Had the opportunity to move into outside sales. So I was a, you know, cold calling and dialing for Dollars for many years. That’s not an easy thing to do. So anyone’s listening to this that is in outside sales that has to do it, you know, I don’t envy you.

It’s not an easy job but it’s super commendable. Had a lot of success there. Put in some additional leadership roles. I was seeking opportunity. Like most of my background at ABM really was around the janitorial space and the facility service space and two and a half years ago, I was approached by our COO, Renee Jacobson to take over our Technical Solutions business. Now, this business is very different than the rest of our organization which is, as you mentioned, an 8 billion dollar organization. Our Technical Solutions businesses this year will probably do about 700 million dollars or so maybe in revenue, ballpark, heavy project-based, but super technical. So when I say that, I mean, like, things like mechanical HVAC, mechanical engineering, mechanical service, we’re heavy in the power space. So we do a lot of maintenance on you know, high medium and low voltage electrical distribution systems and facilities. We have a business that focuses on energy services working in both the public and private sectors doing energy retrofit projects, guaranteed savings programs, off-balance-sheet financing models, things like that. And we have this burgeoning EV infrastructure business.

We’ve actually been in that space for nearly eight years. So, as EV really started gaining some traction here domestically, ABM was on the forefront, working with a lot of the OEMS that were beginning to manufacture and go to market with electric vehicles. And you know, companies like BMW and others, where we really cut our teeth. So you know, the past two and a half years have been quite remarkable, and most recently, we made a pretty strategic decision and we acquired a company called RavenVolt. RavenVolt is a turnkey microgrid company and we’ll talk about why that’s important when the EV space is here shortly. But this business came just through a relationship that I had developed through a neighbor and we acquired this company, had fast growth, two years old, their pipeline has built 3 times since we purchased them back in September. So we have this whole ecosystem that ABM now really implements and helps maintain when you talk about infrastructure. And infrastructure here in the United States is something that’s bantered about, I think regularly, because it’s everything from our roads, it’s from, you know, old buildings that have Legacy equipment in it.

It’s about EV infrastructure, it’s about the utility infrastructure. And one of the things that is super important to us at ABM and its super important to me is we have a significant impact on building out our future as a nation when it comes to infrastructure, sustainable infrastructure. We operate and serve billions of square feet of space, whether it’s commercial office, industrial like they’re one of the largest producers of greenhouse gas emissions. And, you know, we’re in such a unique position. We can help our clients help our society and help our environment by driving these sustainable solutions across a myriad of end markets. And EV just happens to be one of them which I know is going to be a topic for us today. And you know, we’re currently the largest installer of commercial EV infrastructure in North America, with nearly 30,000 charge spots that we’ve installed.

And, you know, I don’t come from a technical background so like for a lot of the listeners, that we’re going to learn a lot more about this very, very remarkable space that we’re in. Just spend the time learning, listening, asking questions, and being inquisitive because there’s so much opportunity out there. You’re a young up-and-coming businessperson to learn in and take those experiences and take calculated risks to grow your career. And I would say, like, going back to my humble beginnings with my family and how my father was raised and my mother was raised, that work ethic and that curiosity has always been, you know, consistent with me. And I think that’s one of the key reasons why at least I feel privileged that I’m in the role that I am today at ABM and have the ability to impact our company, our team members, but also our society and for the greater good of humanity with carbon emission reductions. And EV happens to be a huge component of that as we go forward.

John: So you’ve built out so far to date 30,000 or so you know, EV charger installations. Now you’re building them out on behalf of an OEMS or on behalf of private business industry such as parking garages or others, or it’s a mixture of both? Who hires you to build out these and how far geographically are you covering right now? Is it in a certain geography or is that all across the lower 48 and even other other parts of the United States or just Hawaii, Alaska, and Puerto Rico?

Mark: Yeah, it is across the greater United States and also Canada. We do have some work that’s being looked at overseas. UK, Ireland territory. But I really like that answer, we started our business on the EV infrastructure side really working with the automakers. So their first deployment was thinking, okay, if we’re going to be building electric vehicles, well, our dealerships have to be enabled to allow to fuel these vehicles, as they get put in the dealer’s because if you’re an expected buyer, no different if you go today to buy a combustion vehicle, you expect to have a full tank of gas, well guess what? You’re going to want a full charge in your vehicle. So really, we cut our teeth in that space but it’s since, is growing tremendously, right?

Because that infrastructure goes well beyond a dealership network. So you know we’re looking at very complex projects like airports. In fact, we most recently have completed a very large project with LAX Airport that’s integrated into ABMs parking system because we’re actually the third or fourth-largest parking company in North America as well. So there’s just so ecosystem that we’ve created and productized that you know can take a driver experience to a whole other level as it relates to parking at an airport and it’s a seamless integration with you know API interfaces on your phone and it integrates EV infrastructure into that should you have an electric vehicle. That deployment was over 3,000 units at LAX airport. So it can go from, you know, one or two, level two chargers at that site to something that is a complete ecosystem within itself that requires coordination with the utility, it requires significant infrastructure upgrades as it relates to the power distribution systems that are on site, and it can lead to the ability to integrate microgrid technology where you can actually capture and harness energy on-site through better energy storage systems, leverage solar PV to capture energy off the grid, use that to deploy into the ecosystem, harness that energy during peak time so that you’re not pulling electricity off the grid to minimize demand charges.

So, when we were thinking EV, it goes so far beyond just putting a charger in the ground and thinking that it’s going to work and charge your vehicle. And we’re in a place at ABM to really be that trusted advisor for clients. Whether you’re a dealership, whether you’re a massive fleet owner, I mean think about it, if you’re a fleet like that’s mission-critical business for you, you have to deliver whatever you’re delivering to that client. That means your vehicles have to be charged with electricity if you’re moving to an EV Fleet. So fleets are a big piece of that. A lot of cities and municipalities that are moving towards electrification, whether it’s their public transportation systems and you’re looking at large bus depot charging infrastructure, which requires a ton of engineering and a ton of investment. We have the ability to provide end-to-end solutions there. So really the gamut runs as small as an AC charger to phase three level, you know, three charging to pantograph charging right now for us.

John: The LAX insulation, two things. One is it just B2C with the clients that use LAX or is it also a B2B play with regards to an integration that will allow you to charge the vehicles at the airlines, depend on the other side of the airport, not the parking side, but the other side, how all-encompassing is your insulation there?

Mark: Yeah. Right. Right now. It’s just the consumer side of things. So it’s the actual parking structure and there’s a ton of action has been put forth. We haven’t gone over to the air side yet and work with the airlines in that particular case. Now, there are certain airports that are looking at, you know, charging, their shuttle fleets, and things that nature. And then, as airlines began to adapt as well. You think of all the cargo fleets that are running around airports, eventually, those are going to be electrified too, so.

John: So that evolution will come, but this is the first step in that evolution?

Mark: We’re so early in this stage John. I think people get so wrapped up as like, “We got to get there now. We got to get there now.” We have to sometimes take a step back and realize, yeah, it will happen but we’re going to learn things along the way that are going to make us better. And, you know, we’re talking too about, like, range anxiety and those things. That’s going to come on a more scale, but then, we also have to realize, like our utility infrastructure is not ready for this. And that’s kind of scary because, you know, you’re in California, you deal with the blackouts. I mean, Texas has had its share of issues. There’s other parts of the country that are dealing with this. Our capacity to supply electricity based upon old fossil fuel, coal plants, nuclear plants that haven’t been built in decades, we have to really think about this as a society and the private sector and the public sector working together to come up with these solutions that allow us to electrify, allow us to create a more sustainable world for our selves and for our future is actually critical right now. And that’s where we feel at least ABM we’re looking at that agnostically, right?

We’re here to provide the solution and integrate a lot of these technology’s capabilities so that we can enable our client’s future, we can help reduce greenhouse gas emission reduction and increase adoption of EV overall. And that’s a key component of a microgrid too. I mean that’s why we invested in RavenVolt because we know our utility infrastructure is not going to be able to keep up at the pace that we are right now with the point. Whether it’s even electrification of vehicles but also buildings. Because you have certain cities that have now put legislative laws in place that punitively damage property owners to not hitting certain greenhouse gas emission reductions. That means I have to go electric and you put, that means you’re putting more pressure on that grid and more instability.

John: The Lax Paradigm. Is that going to serve as a paradigm for you to roll out, hopefully, to other airport parking infrastructures that you manage currently around the United States, and potentially, around the world?

Mark: Yeah, absolutely John. So we’re really big in the aviation space. We work in a lot of… you know, serving them on a parking side. So this whole client experience that we can deliver and productize through technology, through the EV space is revolutionary. We call it ABM Vantage and we’re focused on, you know, where we can deploy this with other ports across North America.

John: Got it. Besides range anxiety, what are some of the other big challenges for the transition to electric vehicles as more consumers adopt them? Now you brought up the great point about our infrastructure being actually void or capable of today supporting all this EV infrastructure that needs to be built out to support the demand that’s coming for EVS. So you have legacy energy issues, you have range anxiety, like folks like me that live in Fresno that go to San Francisco and LA all the time and are worried about making it and where do I stop? And how long does it take and are they available and things that such? What else are you facing? What are the challenges you see as we electrify our grid and decarbonize the United States and the world?

Mark: Yeah, I think it’s funding mechanisms for certain, you know, organizations. You know, how are we going to pay for all this? There’s a cost associated with it. Now I know through the inflation reduction act and other government acts that there’s been a ton of billions of dollars funneled for Debbie[?], which you and your listeners probably never heard of, funding all the infrastructure along our main highway corridors. Incentivizing owners along those corridors to install EV. So like we need to be thinking about energy holistically and how being able to perhaps reduce energy spend and you know using those dollars to help fund the adoption of electrification in EV is supercritical. So it goes with having more efficient facility operations, you know, reducing spend in other areas and I think a lot of the incentives the government have put forth is helping with that.

But, you know, there’s still a cost of all this and I’m not sure we’d figured that out yet, in terms of how all this is going to be paid for. You have a lot of companies that have pretty strict ESG and sustainability goals that they’ve now put forth that are their steering towards and are spending that capital. So, again, I go back to the public sector, and private sector really needs to be working in lockstep to really accomplish this. Because it’s not like we can just go decide to build a bunch of nuclear power plants to meet all this demand that’s going to be here in a year or two, right? So I don’t think there’s like a silver bullet so to speak that’s going to solve it. So I think funding… I still go back to the utility is just, you know, it’s going to be a challenge for a lot of areas of the country and then I think what’s going on is more standardization as it relates to EV. What I mean by that, you get equipment, the charging mechanisms, the connectors like we talked about with the automakers locking hands with Tesla. I really think it’s a good thing.

Think about it, if you go fuel up your combustion vehicle today, you’re not thinking about what type of connector I need to adapt with my vehicle. You just go, you pay your money and you fill it up, right? We need a seamless user experience and as people become more comfortable with the experience of driving EV… you mentioned range anxiety. Another thing that’s interesting about EV infrastructure is it’s smart, it’s intelligent because it’s actually tied into a network, right? So most of the EV ecosystem is on a network of some sort that provides data. That gives accessibility for drivers to see accessibility of where I can actually go get a charge, which charges are being used. So you know integrating technology along with the EV infrastructure is going to be something that’s super critical for adoption and teacher use.

John: For our listeners and viewers who’ve just joined us. We’ve got Mark Hawkinson with us today. He’s the president of Technical Solutions at ABM to fine-market, his colleagues, and all the important work they’re doing in decarbonizing the United States and the world and making the world, just a better and greener place. Please go to www.abm.com. You know, Mark, you brought up that you guys have already built 30,000 or so charging stations, I’m dying to hear your vision and talk a little bit about the next 10 years. How many charging stations do we need across the United States to meet the demand? That you, of course, have great visibility on seeing what’s coming online in the future, how many are we going to need to really make people feel comfortable that they can get in their EV and find a charging station that’s convenient and safe and clean for them to use?

Mark: We’re going to need, we’re going to need millions more. I mean, you’re looking at [crosstalk] millions.

John: Millions.

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. You’re looking at… you know, when you think about the adoption of EV and by statistics and research that I’m seeing, you know, 2030 and beyond that one in three vehicles is going to be an electric vehicle on the road, right? So when you think about that, that infrastructure is going to have to keep up. The other thing too, John, is that I don’t… I think it’s lost here so say we keep up with the infrastructure across our great country, how do you maintain it? Right? This isn’t something that’s just plug and play. You know, something that we feel very passionate about, you know, at our core has always been a solution, and service based company is being able to service this infrastructure so that if you’re a driver, you feel confident that when you go to fill your car up with electricity, it’s going to work. So, that’s something that’s not talked about as we think about scaling and adoption.

And we’re really building out a platform at ABM, you know, with our 100,000 plus employees that we have across the country and also the investments that we’re making in terms of training and this is a great opportunity for a lot of people to upskill their opportunities from a career perspective. It’s like really learning on how we’re going to do to maintain this infrastructure because for someone who’s like wanting to get in the gaming world and you know a lot of kids nowadays are very high-tech driven, right? There’s a lot of technology that goes into EV infrastructures. I was talking about networking and software. That’s all integrated into this. So at ABM, we’re actually building an electrification center outside of Atlanta right now.

It’s about 115,000 square foot facility that’s going to house, literally, dozens of EV infrastructure pieces of equipment. It’s tied to a microgrid. We have solar arrays going in. We have battery energy storage. And why we’re doing this, John, is because we see a huge need over the next decade, is to scale up the ability to service this infrastructure for our future, and developing talent, training programs, and career paths for people, so that they could have a career in the EV space. And we feel really passionate about that. And it’s super important because it’s one of the key cogs that are going to go into driving adoption and ensuring that once this infrastructure is installed, we’re maintaining it for its life cycle so that we’re maximizing that return for our clients.

John: Got it. Talk a little bit about you mentioned the Investment Recovery Act and you mentioned you know the rushed ESG and ESG goals that are being set not only by large financial institutions like BlackRock and Larry Fink where hundreds of thousands of other financial institutions are now following and also highly encouraging their portfolio companies to not only do the work but also show the work in terms of impact reporting and other things that is going on, where does ABM fit in the constant push-pull the SEC is about to come on line with their own rags with regards to publicly traded companies, how does ABM gently walk the high-wire balancing act of facilitating the financing, and that’s desperately needed, like you said, of public-private partnerships that will further enhance the electrification of our grid, the decarbonization of the United States and way beyond that, with all the regards to the linear, the movement of the linear to circular economy and all the other benefits that accrue with that decarbonization and electrification?

Mark: Yeah, where we sit really is a professional engineering firm, right? So we’re not an asset owner. So typically ABM is not providing the funding and lending for financial models but we work with a lot of third parties that do this for a living and have for many years. When I think about, you know, we are a registered ESco so we’re an Energy Service Company. So we typically play in the public sector in that case because you think of like K through 12 schools, you think of certain cities and municipalities that have significant needs for infrastructure and energy but they don’t have the cash to cover it.

So, we would play in that space and leverage third parties to help develop the financing models. ABM does the designs, the engineering, we help come up with the program and leverage those parties to hold those assets on their balance sheets. So, you know, that’s one play and we’re actually seeing that pick up a little bit in the private sector specifically with a lot of manufacturers that are looking to scale quickly because of the reshoring of manufacturing here in the United States. Like a lot of these companies may not want to deploy all their capital towards facility ownership than, you know, installing mechanical and electrical and all that other stuff, they want to focus on production and they want to focus on scale and RED.

So we’ve seen a lot of that in that space. And the same thing is happening with a lot of business owners that have certain reductions that they were trying to hit from a carbon perspective and if you don’t want to outlay that cash, there’s treatments that we can develop through our financial partners where ABM comes in as the professional engineering firm on record that designs the systems and makes other recommendations and manages it through construction and leverage our financing partners to hold the balance.

John: So you are really the trusted advisor to all out there that are looking to meet their goals and to further the decarbonization of the United States and the electrification of the grid? You’re the trusted advisor.

Mark: That’s right, John.

John: That’s great. You know we talked a little bit a while ago about 10 years. It’s hard to forecast 10 years, let’s just forecast 60 months. So let’s have a little fun. Like you said, it’s going to take millions, it’s not going to be 30,000 charging stations, it’s literally going to take millions. You have 100,000 employees now, now if you build these charging stations… but like you said your service model, your services company, you’ve been servicing all these other infrastructure for over 100 years now. To service these charging stations coming online and maintain your current business, of course, how big is your workforce going to grow? Do you foresee? When you guys are doing business models inside from 100,000 to what? And how are you recruiting in a world that’s markedly changed from when you were 21 and for sure when I was 21 in terms of hiring folks that are looking for a career and a career that’s exciting, has a great mission, has also a technical bend to it, how are you positioning yourself to recruit the technical jobs that are needed to further grow your important workforce?

Mark: Oh wow, that’s a million-dollar question. I’m not going to lie, it’s hard man. Every industry is dealing with it, right? I mean, just go to a restaurant like… I would say anyone listening, be nice to your servers, I mean, they’re working their butts off, tough industry. So it’s really a multi-prong approach that we’re focused on right now. So it all starts with our internal teams. So the unique thing about us is we have 100,000 plus employees, but like a lot of these employees might be working in a building as a supervisor, you know, cleaning the building but have certain acumen that we can identify, that says, listen, they have certain mechanical skill sets attributes that say they might be good in the technician world. So being able to upskill this workforce is priority number one for us and that’s one of the reasons why we’re building is electrification center.

The other thing that we’re doing is we’re partnering with mechanical contractors, electrical contractors across North America to certify them and build platforms so that they can go out and service infrastructure in their local communities. We’d be naive to think that at ABM that we’re going to go hire another 200,000 people to go deploy and start, you know, doing that. So there’s that, there’s a lot of partnerships that were endeavoring on with trade organizations. We are also beginning to develop plans and how we focus on creating awareness. Getting back into our high schools, our middle schools because those programs, which is something that we as a society should be thinking about all of our public schools should be thinking about, how do we get back to basics? How do we get back to training and bringing awareness to young students around the trades? It’s not a bad thing. And the trades, it’s not just for EV, it can be said for your local mechanical contractor. It could be said for your local building engineer, your local plumber.

You can make an incredible career in the trades. Super respectful. Your income potential is only going up because of the need and we feel that at ABM we need and will be a starter proponent of investment in the trades for years to come because we see that as something that this country is going to have to address. We have no choice as a group. So it’s really going to come from a lot of different angles, John. There’s not really one way to solve it, but we at least want to play a big role in building out platforms, training awareness, and community outreach around the development of skill sets in the trades. The other challenge to that, you’ve seen it happen after Covid enrollment has gone down in colleges. So naturally there were less and less students interested in a four-year degree because they don’t want to… maybe they don’t want to go or two, they don’t want to take all the debt. Well, this is a great opportunity where you can generate a six-figure income in not a long period of time.

John: And be ppskilled by you. You would train them in these technical positions.

Mark: Yes.

John: You know, Mark, you’re working on so many exciting things and really are integral to the future of the United States and a better environment, a cleaner environment, a decarbonized environment, what are you the most excited about today, with regards to the work you’re doing at ABM? And what do you the most worried about today?

Mark: I’d say, what I’m most excited about is just the impact that our organization is going to have on our society, our clients, and our people because we’re doing some amazing things. We’re making some significant investments in how we, you know, deploy technology and how we can impact our future as a society in the United States. Super excited about that. It’s an amazing time. And I think the thing that worries me most is I’ve got to say it’s probably the people side. Like I’m trying to think there’s just a huge need today, and I see it everywhere I go, whether it’s talking to clients, whether it’s when I travel at the airport, I don’t get a sense that our work ethic as a society, as a country… you know, when think about our grandparents and what they went through, what they had to build, the sacrifices that they made, like our generation, mine included, we never had to make those sacrifices.

We didn’t have to go through a Great Depression. We didn’t have to go through 2 world wars. We’ve had it pretty good, right? And like, I hate to say it, but like, sometimes you need a good slap in the face to wake up. And I don’t know if that’s coming. I hope. It’s not, but like we as a country need to wake up and realize what made America great was, we would pull each other up by our bootstraps. We would work hard. We were honest, we were committed, we were determined. And I think, I don’t know, I just feel like we’ve lost some of that as a country, right?

John: We’ve lost a lot of that. I’m way older than you. I’m 60 years old, Mark, and we’ve lost a lot. I’ve seen the acceleration of the decline of the American work ethic post-Covid. I’ve seen also the polarization of America more and more post-Covid. Instead of us, like you said, working together and holding hands where we have commonalities and working out differences and talking about them. Just a bunch of rock throwing at each other if we have differences and that’s just not… you know, I grew up in an era of Tip O’Neill having a drink with Ron Reagan. That’s the way it should be. Not what’s going on today, unfortunately. And I’m hoping the electrification of the grid and the important work that you’re doing and other, like you said, private industry with good government comes together and can help be the glue to bring us back to a point that we’re all pulling the rope, generally speaking, in the same direction.

And we need that desperately, we really do. But it’s great, it’s amazing to have you on. Like you said, our listeners and viewers now, they’re going to see your brand wherever they go, where before it was just part of their landscape, but the letters ABM will now mean something to them a lot more as they go through their daily lives and go into parking lots or airports or office buildings across the United States and the world. And it’s really important work that you and your colleagues are doing. For our listeners and viewers to find Mark and his colleagues at ABM and the important work they’re doing in the environmental cleanup of America and the world and the carbonization of the electrification of this planet, please go to www.abm.com. Mark, you’re always welcome back on the Impact Podcast, thank you for your time today. Thank you, for the impact you’re making, the positive impact you’re making on this planet, and thank you for making the world just a better place.

Mark: Awesome being on John. Really, thank you for having me.

John: This episode of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by closed-loop partners. Closed Loop Partners is a leading circular economy investor in the United States with an extensive network of Fortune 500 corporate investors, family offices, institutional investors, industry experts, and impact partners. Closed Loops platform spans the arc of capital from Venture Capital to Private Equity, bridging gaps, and fostering synergies to scale the circular economy. To find Closed Loop Partners, please go to Www.closedlooppartners.com. This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, Please visit eridirect.com.