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John: So you see the yellow, you see the yellow on your body on that PET scan. It’s January of 2021. And was it another God really again? Now we’re going to gear up for another battle, a new battle. How did that go?

Jeanette Lee: Honestly, the PET scan was two or three days after I was told that I had stage four ovarian cancer. We just couldn’t actually see the cell but the blood work showed I had so many tumor markers. It was pretty bad spread. We just didn’t know where and how much. And so PET scan was the first time we saw it. But before then, I had already been hospitalized. I would go to bed and I would have trouble breathing. It was almost like I was drowning. I felt like somebody put a bowling ball on my chest. But it was only when I went to lay down. And it turns out that the cancer had escaped my ovaries and was spreading around down there and had spread up and up throughout my body till the cancerous fluid was crushing my lungs.

John: Oh my gosh.

Jeanette: Was it in my lungs it was wrapped around it and I was basically drowning. I couldn’t… and so that was my sign to… I immediately went, this isn’t right. I can’t breathe. This isn’t right. And what I thought was going to be some kind of respiratory infection or something like that. And they said, you have cancer. And we think it’s probably pretty bad. And I said, well, can I get a second opinion? And she said, I believe you need to start chemo yesterday. And she said, I don’t think you have time for a second opinion. Get the fastest appointment you can and start chemo. And she said, and then you can do whatever research you want, but don’t wait, start chemo immediately.

She said that she was very confident it was either stage three or stage four, and it ended up being stage four B, and it was pretty severe. And I just… I was really numb actually right away. I was shocked. I just didn’t see it coming. I didn’t see anything coming. You have enough back surgeries to where you think, okay, there’s no more joints that you can possibly fuse. This is it. It’s done. And then, oh, I get a nerve disease, fibromyalgia. So now I have sciatic pain and I have this brachial plexus pain and I have this carpal tunnel pain. It was like nerve pain, I didn’t even know what that was. And now I have, Oh, my God. And my funny bone, that pain sometimes would get irritated. And where’s all these nerve pains coming from? I already still have my joint pain and my neck pain and my back pain and my wrist pain and oh, cancer? It really blows your mind. You know what I mean?

John: And you’re saying you’ve got young kids.

Jeanette: Really? Because it just, after everything I’ve been through, it really leaves you speechless for a minute.

John: Leaves me speechless. And you’re single mom, young kids, new business. How did you not get overwhelmed to be able to, because like you say fear can become something that freezes us and makes us get frozen and creates a situation of inaction. How did you immediately overcome the fear, the anxiety, puck it away into a place that you could then take positive action? As she said, you need to start taking chemo yesterday, how were you able to then move forward positively immediately?

Jeanette: I got the news and I really wasn’t broken down crying because I was still in shock. I still was like, is this real? I wasn’t sad yet, but I was still in the hospital. They were still doing tests and then next thing I have these appointments and I’m running to those and I’m coming home and, my girls, it’s time for dinner. And my two young ones are 10 and 11 and other daughters 16 and they’re all giggling and laughing beautiful. And I’m thinking, I can’t tell them. How do I tell them? And thinking about it, is this going to be the last time I see them laugh like this? Is this the last time I see them giggle? Is it really going to be goodbye? And I thought I’m not going to give them that news. I want them to be happy. I want them to…

John: Be kids.

Jeanette: Yeah. Be kids. And so I didn’t tell them for two weeks.

John: Wow.

Jeanette: And then I finally just sat them down and I asked my best friend, one of my best friends Diana, and she was there and Julie and my ex-boyfriend. And I just ask for a lot of support, not really just for me but for my daughters, because this was family. These people are who Chloe and Savannah have known their whole life and so they’re a reminder that with or without me there’s so many people behind them that will look out for them. So the first time, that’s when it started getting real. Me having to tell them. And then when I told them, one was just shocked like me. The other two started crying and asking questions. And that was part of my delay in telling them.

I wanted more answers before I could answer any questions but unfortunately all my answers were bad ones. And they know how to Google so they know that ovarian cancer always comes back. So they’re just waiting just like me. But when I had told them and I saw them crying that was the first time I feel like I actually swallowed. I think before that it was still just shock. Like I was carrying it in my mouth. “Okay. Okay. Uh-huh. Okay. Okay.” And then I’m like, “Oh, my God what’s, you know, like they can’t. I’m thinking, no, I cannot leave these children without a mom. I’m like, what is Cheyenne going to do? She doesn’t have a job yet, she won’t go to college because the studying and the pressures and the tests. My daughter is brilliant. She could be Chemists or whatever. She won’t go back to school. Great, so now what? I got to find a career or a job for her or whatever. She’s plenty smart, but she won’t get a higher education.

John: Right. She needs you to help her figure this out. There’s a road ahead.

Jeanette: Exactly. She’s estranged from her father. She won’t talk to her father or see him anymore, which is totally her choice and I have been totally against it. I feel like she needs her dad and her dad is still a good person. But she’s so insistent and I’m like, well, where is she going to stay? Who’s going to take care of her? What’s going to happen? And then I’m thinking about these ones and they’re still arguing and she still needs to learn this and I’m the one that’s teaching her that. And it was like, no, no, no, I’m not going anywhere. It was mm-mm.

And so that’s what gave me the… from that point on, it was like, come on, I’m going to take everything you’ve got and give you back more. I’m ready because this is about my babies and you’re not going to take me away from my babies. It was kind of like that, but obviously I’m just full of talk smack because I don’t have any power or authority or anything like that. But I’m just telling you the honest truth about the way that I felt. It was a conviction that I was going to not, oh, I’m going to live through this. I’m going to live girls. I’m not leaving. I’m going to live through that. No, I don’t have a wand or mirror or whatever. I just knew I was going to do everything I could to be here as long as possible.

And I was going to doc, what do I need to do? What can I do? He said, “you’re doing it. You’re doing the chemo. You’re doing…” What else can I do? He said, “eat, don’t stop eating no matter what, you don’t want to lose any weight” And a lot of people, they can’t take the chemo anymore and they stop eating. They don’t just die from the chemo, they die from like literally everything shutting down. And so no matter what it tastes like, no matter what it was, I stuck it in my mouth and I ate it.

John: Once again…

Jeanette: It was just whatever it took just put me through it and it was so hard because I couldn’t think very well and I was feeling so weak. And we still didn’t know if I was going to make it through chemo. I didn’t know how many chemo treatments we were going to have. I didn’t know how it was going to respond to it but the girls are going to see me fight to the very end. No matter what they’re going to know I did everything I could to stay here. And so it was more like that. Not, “I’m not going anywhere because I got the power.” And I was praying, my whole family they’re all devout Christians and I feel like I had the world praying for me. I got messages from everywhere. I wasn’t reading all of them just because I was weak and I was laying a lot.

John: But again, you made a choice. You weren’t going to be the victim. You were going to be a victor. And now you created your girls as the proxy to fight for. And if they were going to see you go down, you weren’t going down without a huge fight for your life.

Jeanette: Yeah. My daughter, I think in the documentary, my daughter Chloe said something like, “Well, I definitely knew that if anyone was going to survive cancer it was going to be my mom because she is so strong.” And I was like, Aw. But another bad thing they said was, well this really doesn’t feel… because everyone’s like, well, what is it like at home, her having cancer, this and that, and all three of them said, honestly, nothing’s changed, because my mom has been sick for as long as I can remember.

She’s been in pain for as long as I can remember, and I find that sad. I didn’t like hearing it. It’s the truth of it. For as long as I’ve had children, they have seen me suffering. And only because sometimes I can’t stop showing it. I try not to. I really have a good pain tolerance and I try not to complain about when I’m in pain. But there are times where you just can’t take another step, where you just can’t, you need help. And so I feel sad, but they felt like nothing changed at home. Except for the COVID protection stuff and us really almost not having anyone come in and out of the house.

John: How many rounds of chemo did you end up ultimately going through?

Jeanette: Six months.

John: Six months.

Jeanette: Yes.

John: And when was the drug Lamparza introduced to you?

Jeanette: At the very end. So when I finished chemo.

John: Hmm.

Jeanette: All right. So in the middle of the six treatments, after three, they did a full hysterectomy. They didn’t just take my ovaries, they took everything which kick-started menopause. And by the way I have it worse than anyone I know. It’s unbearable, but that’s a whole nother gift that I’m mad at God about. The hot flashes and everything is completely insane and I’m too young, I shouldn’t be going through that yet, but anyway, it kickstarted that. But anyway, it was the three rounds then we had the full hysterectomy.

And during that time, she was saying the number of lymph nodes that I had, and that while she was getting that out, she was going to try to get rid of as much as they can. But there were a couple higher up, like one near my right armpit, that she’s going to try to get, but she might have to get a co-doctor, surgeon, whatever, to do that part because my surgeon specialized specifically in ovarian cancer surgeries. And these lymph nodes were way above that so I heard, yes, she got this other top top doctor. She’s one of the best, Jessica Stein and they came in and they did the surgery. And when I came out, they said that everything went really well.

They were able to get everything out. They were not able to see any visible tumors and they got this tumor whatever. But unfortunately there were a couple that they did not remove because something about the way that it was, you don’t want to break or pop or whatever you do to a lymph node where it spreads. Something about the way that they couldn’t remove it safely. So I can’t remember because of all the medication I was on. I can’t remember exactly what he said about it, but it was that they could not remove that safely. And it was like, okay, well, maybe after all these, more chemo. And every single time my tumor markers got lower and lower and lower. And there he’s like, man, you are doing fantastic. And meanwhile, the world is still praying for me and on and on and on. And we finished chemo and I’m like, oh my god I’m still alive it’s July right? I got diagnosed January 11th or 12th or something like that so, you know, six months. I kept saying in January, “I got to make it at least to my birthday. I got to make it to 50” because I was 49.

Jeanette: And I was like, come on, I got to see my 50th birthday. And so when I got there, I was like, yes. And I just completed chemo. And a lot of people do not finish chemo. It’s not the chemo that kills them, It’s they quit before it’s over because it’s miserable. So I couldn’t wait for the news. So after the last chemo, we do our routine CAT scan. I was hoping we’d do another PET scan. I completed all the chemo so I was just waiting for him to tell me I’m in remission, you know? So he’s telling me how good the numbers have been and this and that. So this was the last time I hadn’t seen him since the month before, but I completed my last cycle.

And then they set up these CAT scans and he was like, “hi.” And he said, “we are so proud of you.” And look at these numbers. This is amazing. And we’re very proud of you. What’s from 10,800, something to like 200. And I guess just kept listening to him, listening to him. And I’m like what did you see on the CAT scan? He said, well, it all looks really good. And he said, but we still have that lymph node that’s up there and we still can’t be sure whether or not it’s malignant or benign. And he said, so… and I said, so we’re going to do chemo again or what am I? I’m in remission, though, right? I’m in remission. I finished the chemo. And he said, “oh, I’m sorry, but I don’t think you’re ever going to go into remission.” What do you mean you don’t think I’m ever going to… How do you never go into remission.

How can you predict that? And he said “well, it’s not likely because of the lymph nodes. As long as they’re there we’re not going to operate, we’re not going to move it, but you’re still always going to have these numbers and we’re going to have to watch you very closely” and blah, blah, blah. And I said, so I’m just supposed to go out there now, just go to life. I’m done with chemo treatment, I’m done fighting. Even though I’m not cured, I still have cancer in my body and you’re going to say, oh, you’re done with chemo treatment. Now spend the rest of your lives with your daughters, knowing that you could just die tomorrow. It was like, I was very upset.

John: Right. But with good reason.

Jeanette: For anyone to say like, there’s no hope that kind of thing. So but it turned out it was because of that one lymph node and this and that. Well, later that year, I had that car accident. Remember? And it was just during that time that, I mean, after the chemo, he said, we’re going to keep you on Limparza. And I said, so that’s going to get rid of lymph nodes. And he said, it’s a chemotherapy and it’s meant to keep the cancer at bay. The cancer from coming back. And he said, but it’s going to still keep working on the cancer that you have. But it’s not enough for us to do any more chemo treatments because they are harmful to your body and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it was very hard for me to understand.

But in November we go for CAT scanning. He’s like, “Jeanette, I’ll tell you…” Because every month he was like, “Oh, you look better.” “Oh, it’s down to 115.” “Oh, Jeanette, it’s at 85. Your CA-125s are at 85.” And in November it was at 13. And they told me a normal healthy would be 15. And I said, what does that mean? He said, that lymph node’s gone. He said, I don’t know what happened to it, but there’s no more cancer visible on your body. You are technically in remission.

John: That’s awesome. That’s so amazing.

Jeanette: And I was like, I thought you told me I never, and he explained about this and that. And so that was that November. And then I had the major car accident and was going through hell with that. And I was just like, I just got the good news that I’m going to live and now I get into this accident that I’m almost on the hospital table to do this spinal laminectomy. And I’m just going real, I’m going to die of this or am I going to die of COVID instead of cancer? Or it was like, really? And then four days later, we had another accident in the car and we slipped and I landed head first in the back of the shower in the motorhome and I was so weak I could barely stand and they think that fall was the one that compressed it to the point where I’m just going to say the side effects were bad. I’m just going to say they were bad. They were very unpleasant.

John: Oh, okay so now we’re almost at your 52nd birthday. We’re almost in July of 2023. First of all, this interview has been incredible because we talked about your career, your super mom, your winning the gold medal, ESPN, Jeanette Lee versus. You also were obviously a TV star. In my lifetime, I’ve seen you on David Letterman. I’ve seen you on Regis. I believe you even on Korean. My friends in Seoul told me you were on Korean dancing with the stars.

Jeanette: Yeah.

John: Jeanette, first of all, as I shared with you before, you look incredibly healthy. You look incredibly youthful.

Jeanette: Thank you.

John: Tell me now.

Jeanette: 51, I’m going to be 52.

John: You don’t even look near that. Just be honest here. You don’t even look near that.

Jeanette: Thank you.

John: Where do you want it to go? Your journey is beyond inspirational, beyond transcendent of a sport and of a disease and of other challenges you face besides racism. And now you’re still a super mom, but you’re still Jeanette Lee. And you have a life in front of you. Look at your mom. How old’s your mom now? How old’s mom?

Jeanette: She is 83, going to be 84.

John: Okay. My mom’s the same. So it’s a good thing to have parents that have longevity because that means that’s coming to you. That those genes are in you. So what’s the plan now? I know you have a book coming out next year. How’s that going? And when do you think that comes out next year?

Jeanette: The book is going very well. I have a very talented writer, Dana Benbow, that’s helping me. She’s a writer that actually lives in Indianapolis, where I spent the last 18 years. And anyway, she’s very talented, and she is helping me tell my story. So we should be done with it well before the end of this year, maybe October.

John: That goes to editors.

Jeanette: It just depends on how much and then it’s going to go out of my hands and editors will do whatever they’re going to do. And we plan to release it next year, maybe in the summer or fall.

John: Perfect. And.

Jeanette: I did want to interrupt because earlier I was talking about I had the two daughters.

John: Yes.

Jeanette: Supermom part. There were children that were missing. So really quickly, I have two stepdaughters, Morgan and Olivia from my first marriage. Then we went about 10 years of trying before we finally adopted Cheyenne from birth. Then a year and a half later, my cousin, who is like a sister to me, invites me, George and I, to take a Christmas vacation together. And we go on vacation with them. And they said, “remember those two boys that we’ve had living with us for a little while?” And I’m like, “yeah.” their parents were in court and they said, “well, they just had their final appeal and it was denied. So they are being incarcerated and these boys are going to be put in the system.”

John: Oh.

Jeanette: And she said, I really want you to consider adopting them. This way the brothers can stay together. They were 14 and 17 and I had just met them. I just met them. I thought it was so kind and loving that my cousin Esther, her husband’s a criminal attorney and was representing them. But to not send them away, they fostered the two boys themselves and they had five children. Anyway and actually that summer I said, let me give you a break from them. They can come. George said, “yeah, send them in, yeah, I’ll put them to work and they came and spent a month with us, which gave them a break from the boys.

The boys were very violent. They wrestled and fought. They were close, but they were very physical. And not towards me, but towards things and towards each other. No they played and fought seriously and so it was very scary. Anyway it turned out that and I said Esther, I’m at the peak of my career. I’m traveling all over the place. I said there’s no way I could take on a foster and these boys need way too much attention that I can’t give them. And I said I would love to. I don’t want them pulled apart but I said you know I just can’t. I can’t. I said, George and he said, yeah, we just got too much going on. And Esther was like, okay, I understand. And we were like, okay. All right.

But I said, I don’t mind donating or whatever they want it. So where are they going to go? And that’s when they told me, sorry, I’m kind of backstabbing. That’s when they told me. Well, they’ll be put in the system. They’ll become foster kids. And then they probably won’t be kept together because there’s not a lot of people that are going to keep them both. And actually Billy is 17. He’s almost 18. So he might just stay in the foster care or foster and then be gone after the school year.

Jeanette: And George and I we liked those kids. They did come to our house for the summer and we did not want them split up. And then I hesitated and then he looked at me and I looked at him and Esther said, Jeanette, your part-time is going to be way better than anyone’s full-time. I know you can do this. You’re the right person. I said, Esther, I’m only doing this so they don’t get separated, but I know that someone else would be able to give them more attention than I’m going to be able to give them. And it turned out that Billy stayed with us for the summer.

He was 17, and then he went off to college, and we souped him up with all kinds of brand-new suitcase, a whole bunch of clothes, new sneakers. I bought him a laptop. I bought him a Hinkley Springs water thing to be in his room so he’d always have fresh water. And I said, I’m permanent. I’m here for you, Billy, you know? But he went off to go to university of Syracuse university because these boys were born and raised in New York city but they were involved with like the Korean and Chinese gangs and the different things in school and I remember John writing a school paper in high school about the pinnacle moment in his life and he said something about moving to Indiana and the changes, the pinnacle changes. And it said, well, staying there, blah, blah, blah.

And it said not having to go through a security thing to go to school. No video cameras in the hallway, in the staircases. No, like you have to go through a gun detector to go to school in Manhattan. And it’s a totally different atmosphere. And John later told me, I got him out of a pinch because it gets to the point where even if you don’t want to join a gang, you have to join a gang just to be protected.

John: Right, to stay safe.

Jeanette: It’s like, and you don’t want to, but now you’re doing something you don’t want to be doing, but you also don’t want to get killed. And I just kind of plucked him out of there and brought him to Indianapolis.

John: So he’s part of your brady bunch Jeanette Lee super super mom family.

Jeanette: He is my first son, Billy still calls me his aunt and I call him my nephew but John I call him my son we had him since he was 14 he had a fifth grade reading level he was so sweet but quiet and well, I mean, his parents were incarcerated.

John: What do you expect?

Jeanette: He was locked in the middle of Indiana around cornfields. He was not in the happiest whatever, but he had a fifth grade reading level. I had tutors come help him. And really at school, he wasn’t used to making the effort. And I said, I’m not going to push you to go to college. I said, college is not going to guarantee you a career. I said, it’s just going to cost you a lot of money. I said, the only thing college will do is it will give you more options. It’ll open up more doors, but you still need to do the work. And if you’re not willing to do the work, you’re not going to get a job in any degree that you have anyway if you’re not going to work hard.

So I’m just going to tell you right now, at the rate you’re going, according to your teachers, you’re not going to graduate high school. He was 14, he was just going to be going to be freshman. And he said, I’m going to college. And none of them had gone to college, but he’s like, I’m going to college. And I said, I cannot make you graduate. And I said, and I can’t pay the teachers, and I wouldn’t anyway. I said, you have to really work hard if you think that you’re going to get SAT scores and make it to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he said, I will. And I said, okay, then I’m in. And I said, I’m going to push you really hard, and I’m going to annoy the crap out of you, but as long as you walk my line, I will guarantee you go to college.

Jeanette: And he said, well, I’m going to college. And he never complained, but I had hired his teachers at $15 an hour to come and tutor him after class or he would go to their class. I got my cousin, Jessica Kim, who was studying for med school. So she would come up for three hours and be his study buddy. So she’d be studying when he’d be studying. I gave him flashcards because he was a tactical learner and it was hard for him to sit still. So he’d be upside down on the couch, but looking at flashcards. And eventually we got him into wrestling and by his 12th year, he went from having all C’s and F’s to all A’s, all A’s.

At first it was, you had to give me at least two B’s because he was at C’s and F’s. So every semester I gave him a new goal. At one point I said, “I need four A’s” and that was the first time he talked back to me and he said, “why don’t you get it, I’m not A material” and that pissed me off and I said yes, you are. And I said, just keep working hard and shut up. But he did the work and he ended up getting great grades. He ended up being on the varsity wrestling team. He ended up coaching fifth grade wrestling, the boys wrestling fifth graders. He ended up going to Indiana university and graduating. And living in the house with friends that he made from high school.

So he had some good friends to hang out with. And I wanted him to move to Florida with us. He moved, he got a girlfriend who also wanted to go back to New York because she wants to be a publisher. She wants to work for a publishing company. So not Indiana. She wants to be in New York. He knew New York, like the back of his hand and he’d graduated college or whatever. He got a job at JP Morgan chase.

John: What? He’s a banker? He’s a banker.

Jeanette: Yes. So he has been working for them doing whatever he explained to me for so many years and then actually just recently they laid him off because that division or whatever closed so then he got another job and I can’t remember what it is right now but I was so proud of him. He never used to say thank you or sorry or please.

John: But he’s your son.

Jeanette: And it was just kind of weird because we would do so much for him and we’re not doing it for the thank yous but it’s weird that he never thanks us. And my friends would come and take him to a basketball game they didn’t have to do that and I said make sure you thank them and then I realized that maybe he’s not been taught. Because it just so happened that Cheyenne was just a young girl so she’s like two she was actually a year and a half when I adopted him. So now she’s two, three, four. And I’m saying, “say, please.” “say thank you.” And that’s when it dawned on me. Maybe he just wasn’t taught. And I said, John I noticed you don’t say, please, thank you or I’m sorry. And I said, I think that you just forget. So I said, I’m never going to disrespect you. But from now on I’m going to ask you for it. I’m going to remind you of when it’s appropriate to say it. And I said, and I’m not doing it to, what is the word? Make fun of you. I’m not doing it to whatever.

John: Embarrass.

Jeanette: Yeah, not to embarrass him or patronize him.

John: Right. Patronize.

Jeanette: I said, I’m just doing it to help you remember. And I mean, this kid from 14, the change to 18, the change to 21, because 18, he was a gentleman, very protective of me. Very caring. I taught him how to drive, he had earned a car and all this other stuff, but he was, Oh, I can’t remember.

John: So now he’s in New York. So you guys communicate all the time. Is he still with his girlfriend?

Jeanette: He is still with his girlfriend.

John: Okay, good.

Jeanette: They still live in the same place.

John: That’s great.

Jeanette: And then I got the news about the state of ovarian cancer because of the pandemic. And because everyone got to work from home. It was the first time he could visit me for more than two days. Because before he would work so much. Saturday, Sunday, and had to go.

John: That’s the nature of that business, right.

Jeanette: But because he was allowed to work from home, he was able to fly immediately to my house and stayed like almost two months.

John: Oh, my God.

Jeanette: I mean, and I would have never gotten that time with him, and neither would the girls, but I remember every time he would pop open a Pepsi and leave it just sitting there all over the place till him seeing the girls doing it and saying, pick up after yourself. I’m your brother and what are you doing with that? You’re just going to leave that there. It’s going to pick up itself. And I was thinking, I remember picking up after you, John, and now you’re like my Chloe and Savannah. So what a pleasure. And then you know how Savannah was born, right? I mean, how Chloe was born.

John: You had one daughter Chloe from a surrogate.

Jeanette: Yes.

John: Oh talk about that.

Jeanette: The only baby that I had ever had was Cheyenne from birth. Other than that I had Morgan, Olivia starting at six and seven and John starting at 14. Cheyenne was so perfect, the experience was so beautiful and I said, I just, I want one more baby. I mean, I thought I was going to have five or six children and I ended up with one baby and George is like, I think we got enough. We got Cheyenne, we got Morgan, Olivia, John. And I was like, he said, Jeanette, Cheyenne is so perfect. He’s like, why would you want to ruin that? It’s like perfect right now. Our kids are grown and now we got perfect Cheyenne. Why would you want to mess that up? And I was like, because I’m like, he said, she’s so perfect. Why would you want another one? And I’m like, she’s so perfect. Why wouldn’t you want more of that?

John: Right. Mom’s perspective.

Jeanette: Anyway, I told him I was having at that point, we were already kind of having some marital issues. And finally, I just told him this is happening one way or another. I said, I don’t want to have just one baby my whole life. And I was already like thirty nine. Anyway, it turned out that a woman offered to be our surrogate. Because I was going to try Invitro one time. No, I wasn’t going to do that, I was just going to adopt again. I thought adopting is what God wanted. So I was immediately going to adopt, God again, when a woman offered to be our surrogate for free. Who also got paid from work through her work, whatever.

John: For her health care.

Jeanette: Yeah. So she was getting, you know, like 60% of the income, even though she’s just staying at home.

John: Oh, got you.

Jeanette: Everything was covered and anything. And she just wanted to do it to help the family. So that’s Angie. Angie Risenwhite. And so. We try invitro once. And if it doesn’t work, I’m just going to adopt because I was going to adopt anyway, but invitro just costs too much. So we do it and she gets pregnant right away. She said, I got pregnant before. And she said, we do not want to have children, any more children, but I loved being pregnant. I loved it. And I was like, okay. And she’s like, and there’s so many people that can’t so I just wanted to do that as my gift to the world. And I thought that was so beautiful and thank goodness. And then she was so nice. She let me go to every doctor’s appointment.

John: She made you part of it.

Jeanette: Yep. Made me part of every single step. She stopped drinking soda. She started eating really healthy. Oh, and at 16 weeks, we were supposed to find out, normally you find out at week 20 what the sex of the baby is, 20 or 21 weeks. But I knew the doctor and George and I were there and they said, sometimes you can see a little Peter hanging out. So we were looking forward to seeing this, we got pregnant with twins. So we were like, oh my God, twinsies, twinsies, I can’t believe it. And I said, I wanted one. And George was like, oh my God. And I said, I can’t believe it. I said, well, we’re not going to need anymore because he asked, are you going to want another one after this? And I’m like, I don’t know. And he’s like, Jeanette, no, but now that we’re going to have twins, I’m good. We do not need anymore. So yeah, we were really excited and I had just gotten like twin books and I ordered the twin stroller and I was just getting all sassy ready and then at 16 weeks old, we couldn’t find the second twin.

John: What?

Jeanette: We found one healthy baby and the other one was not breathing. And we were devastated. And it’s so weird because I didn’t even carry it. But I felt such a deep loss in my gut. It just felt sick. And I didn’t even get to meet the baby. What am I attached to? Why am I so upset? I couldn’t understand why I was hurting so deeply, but I could not seem to get out of it. I could not enjoy the pregnancy of the baby that’s living because I spent the whole time mourning the baby that I lost. So if there’s any regrets in my life, those are the kinds of regrets. I wish I enjoyed more and celebrated that more. But when Chloe remained, came out kicking and strong and looking just like George. I’m like, great. I finally have a biological child and it looks just like George. Because the other ones look just like him. So at eight weeks old, I find out I’m pregnant.

John: Wow.

Jeanette: I’m 40 years old at this point.

John: Oh, my gosh.

Jeanette: Chloe is just growing. And I was just planning to enjoy this baby and let this baby travel with me the way that Cheyenne did and give her all the same attention and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I can’t stop throwing up. I don’t know what’s going on. I’m feeling so tired. Why do I feel so tired? I feel like completely wiped out. And this was while I was doing a military tour. I had done military tours for my entire career, 24 years or something. Serving the Navy and the MWR and the Air Force and the Marines, just doing trick shot shows and things like that to support troops overseas. And I’ve done that since ’94. Yeah. Anyway, I…

John: Now you’re pregnant. Now you’re pregnant.

Jeanette: Now I’m pregnant.

John: With a young little one at home. Little baby at home.

Jeanette: Right. And I was just like I just started crying and could not stop crying and Diana who worked for me, one of my best friends, she was in the office and I hadn’t told anyone anything but I had a dream that I was in a hospital room and I kept having this same dream and it was, I got up, I went to the bathroom, and there’s all these people around me, and they’re all celebrating with those things that you could blow and everyone’s happy and this and that, and I go to the bathroom, and then I sit there, and I happen to look at the little checkered white tile floors.

It’s all just like little checkers, and it’s just white tile and I’m looking down at the floor, and then I notice something, and I’m like, what is that, and I put my finger in, and it’s blood, and then I’m like, blood, where’s the blood coming from? and then suddenly my whole foot is like pouring with blood, and then next thing you know, I’m pouring in blood, next thing you know, I’m in bed. And everyone else is like dark and sad. And I get more and more tired and there’s blood everywhere and the walls become black and all the people are still there, but they’re all wearing black and I would wake up.

John: Oh my gosh.

Jeanette: Yeah. So that happened. Almost the same thing. The first time I’d woken up, it was just the happy part. And that’s what made me take a test because we weren’t trying to have a baby anymore. We had Cheyenne, John, whatever. We’re going to have Chloe. We’re not trying to have another baby. So but I finally took the test in the bathroom near Diana. And then I looked at it and when I saw that I was pregnant, I just like was so sad. I was so mad. And I just started crying. And Diana’s like, Jeanette, Jeanette. And I’m like, no, no. And she’s like, Jeanette, open the door. And I was like, I cannot, I can’t, I can’t go through this again.

I said, it’s not fair. I said, I’m so sick of it. I can’t do this again. And she’s like, what? And I shoved the pregnancy test at her and she’s like, Jeanette, this says you’re positive. Did you just take this test? And I said, yes, I’m positive. She says, you’re pregnant. And she said, is this a joke? And I said, no, and I just start crying, crying, crying. She’s like, stop crying. Why are you crying? You should be excited. And I said, can you not just give me one more baby without another back surgery, without another this? I said, Diana, do you really think at 40 years old, there’s any shot that this is going to live? No, this isn’t going to live.

You know I’m going to miscarry. And I said, I don’t need this. I already lost a twin. I’m like, when does it end? Every time something good happens, something breaks down in my body or something happens and then, you know. I lose Chloe’s twin and now Chloe in my arms and now I’m going to lose this baby. And it’s like, come on now. God, enough is enough. They were born in 2009 so that means I’d already had those three back-to-back surgeries and you know what I mean? And I was just like, enough is enough is enough. And so I was sure. So as time went on, I just wouldn’t talk about it. And time would go on, it would get bigger, and I would go to the doctor, whatever. But I was just waiting. I was just numb.

John: Because you had miscarriages before, so you knew that your body wasn’t situated for this whole thing.

Jeanette: And I knew that we weren’t even trying. And there was only one possible time that that could have happened because it was like I was traveling through Europe, military tour, and he was doing whatever, and we both kind of caught up. For like a three day vacation for George and I and the kids in Florida before I had to take off again. And in three days, there was one point where Uncle Frank took the kids for a walk and bam, wham, bam, quickie. And that’s the only possibility. And I’m 40. I’m like, there’s no chance this baby is going to carry. It was just a fluke.

John: God thing, you’ve got God running through all the themes of your life. That’s another God thing. Oh, my gosh.

Jeanette: So I just thought, oh, my God, no matter what I was like, you just got to torture me. And I’m like, for what? For what? I mean, how much good more good, come on. And so I went the whole pregnancy not celebrating. I would not shop. I returned all the twins things and they were like, Jeanette, you got to start getting excited. You know.

John: You were preparing for the worst.

Jeanette: I mean, Chloe started 16 weeks, so why couldn’t it die at 20 weeks? Why? Just how far was God going to take this? How long am I going to have to suffer. But it was a matter of time because it would make no sense for it to survive. It just wouldn’t make any sense. And so it was like, I just bided my time and waited. And then we had a baby shower and it was sweet and nice. And I’d smiled but deep inside, it was like, there was… But there would be times that the baby would turn in my stomach. Where it felt so alive, like it felt healthy. So it was like, I was kind of changing, but it was like the actual answer to the question is, do you have any regrets in your life? The answer that I’ve always answered is that I didn’t enjoy the pregnancy. The only pregnancy I had. That I just didn’t. My state of mind was so negative.

John: But at that point you were protecting yourself. That was a tool of protecting your… you had been, let’s just say, listen, we’re all thrown potholes and curve balls and you had more, you’ve had more than your share in it. So you were just protecting yourself.

Jeanette: Yep. But she lasted till august 31st if I waited one more day then she would have been September 1st and Chloe October 1st I would have remembered their birthday but instead she came a day early august 31st and I was in labor for 17 hours and they brought the nursing to do the epidural and then she tried apparently like 20, 30 times, whatever, and then until she had to call another doctor to come in, and it took him two hours to get there. And meanwhile, I’m in labor, and she can’t get the epidural through my back. I’m screaming epidural, epidural because the fact that I can’t. Well. It became known pretty early, like when I had that 2001, those three back-to-back surgeries I was like, I really want a baby. I really want a baby. Cheyenne was born in 2004.

So, you know, baby, baby. And Terry’s like, be careful what you wish for. Your back is too fragile. I don’t know that you could make it through in a healthy manner. You could suffer some permanent damage. There’s all these risks and this and that. And I’m like. I don’t care. I’m going to have a baby. And man, I just never imagined that but the doctor came two hours later and George said that he watched that woman and then that doctor almost a hundred times trying to puncture and get the needle through. But he said he tried started here, but then I had track marks up and down, you know, with my whole back because they were just trying to give me some relief.

And the meanwhile, I’m like, Oh, and I kept going epidural, epidural and I’m sorry, Ms. Lee, he looks up, he’s pouring sweat. And the doctor’s like, I’m sorry, but this just isn’t going to work. And I’m like, fine. C-section start C-section. I’m like, it’s okay. Fine. Just get it out. And he talks to the doctor outside, and I’m like, what? Get the cart C-section, let’s go. And George comes back in the room, and he goes, babe, we’re a little past the C-section point. And I was like, what does that mean?

Jeanette: What does that mean? Why can’t you cut it open? Get it out. And he’s like, babe, you’re going to have to push. It’s positioned. It would be too dangerous. You’re too far along. You just have to push. And I was like, no, it’s not coming out of that little place. No. It was like, do you have any idea how much pain I’m in? Because I already suffered from so much pain. I just had chronic pain from my back and there’s no way. I could feel my back, like almost all the vertebrae, like snap just being stretched and ripped. In my mind, that’s the way it seemed. But anyway, he said it was like almost 100 red marks, and they end up never going. And I ended up pushing for 17 hours in labor. And I gave birth to the baby naturally.

John: Oh, my gosh. And that was…

Jeanette: And afterwards, I stood up and went to the bathroom, and my stomach was flat as bored I couldn’t believe it. Because I had gained exactly 25 pounds, but I was expecting rolls, stretch marks and nothing. No I got very lucky.

John: Now savannah’s what 13 years old almost right 13.

Jeanette: Yes.

John: Wow. So you have all the age ranges you have all the age ranges and your too oldest are now in their 30s. Wow.

Jeanette: Yes. Cheyenne is 19. So they’re 12, 13, 19 is Cheyenne and then John is 30, 31 and then Morgan and I mean Olivia’s 33 and Morgan’s 34.

John: Oh my gosh you’ve got the…

Jeanette: Super mom, I don’t think so.

John: You became super mom for sure you got your dream. Your dream came true in some way shape or form you made it happen let’s just say that. As we said earlier, Jeanette, you didn’t have role models. There were not a lot of woman role models back when you were growing up or breaking through or becoming yourself, becoming the Jeanette Lee that we all know, the Black Widow, the number one pool player in the world, gold medal winning. Nor was there any real Asian American role models that had broken through yet, so to speak.

Jeanette: Absolutely. You’re absolutely right. And guess what? I don’t think it’s going to be long before half of them are Asian. There are more and more Asians coming in from China. Once China opened their doors, not just letting us in, but letting their players out. It opened up our eyes because these Chinese players can play, and they play on tougher equipment. The pockets are smaller.

John: Really?

Jeanette: And they’re rounded like snooker tables.

John: Really?

Jeanette: But the balls are the standard size. It’s extremely difficult, but these kids are learning to play on that from the time they’re young. Then they’re pulled out. Anyone that shows potential and talent. They’ll remove them and start homeschooling them and they’ll go to the academy and start training. And they all wear vests. They’re very plain and no makeup.

John: But beyond that Jeanette listen the New York Times about three or four months ago wrote a beautiful essay on the Connie Chung effect and how many young women looked up to Connie Chung and I could be her and they talks about they interviewed about a dozen of young ladies who in their now 30s and 40s now are professionals because they associated themselves with her. There’s a Jeanette effect that I say is even obviously still going on. When you think about, just look at just recent times, Kim Ga-young in she’s like your replica in terms of how she carries herself and what she wears Inbee Park and the golf superstars out of, then you have even just the whole. The heroes that are coming out of Korea now. K-pop wasn’t big when we were kids. Obviously, there was no…

Jeanette: All those Korean dramas?

John: We watch Korean dramas in our household more than we watch American dramas. Netflix.

Jeanette: Oh, my gosh!

John: You know, the CEO of Netflix was in Seoul earlier this week, and he said 60% of all Netflix watchers around the world, users, actually, you enjoy watching K-pop. 60% in the world. 60%.

Jeanette: No.

John: Yes. That’s how much. This is just this week. This was this week in Seoul. This is the Korean. So the Korean, Netflix is…

Jeanette: You’re saying 60% of Seoul watch Netflix?

John: No. no. 60% of all Netflix users in the planet at some point are downloading and watching Korean dramas. That’s why they’re spending more money in Seoul, in South Korea, on production. Netflix is number two in the world after Hollywood. The second most place where they spend money is in Korea because the people around the world have taken to Korean culture. And so. And so there is a fascinating, you know, your legacy of empowerment of women and specifically Asian American woman, I think, is a long, long tail.

And that’s why I was one of the many reasons I was so excited to have you on, because I think there’s a whole new generation of women that are hungering for someone like you that wants to win, who’s beautiful. Who is not only a survivor, but you have figured out the algorithm of not just survival, but thriving, pushing yourself, not just to survive at the crisis that you’re facing at any given moment, but thriving and then giving that a voice, but giving that a voice. Like you said, when you meet people that have a nice life and had sort of have a cushion life, they’re wonderful people, but it’s so much more fun and interesting being with someone who’s made it through the fire on time after time and hearing their stories, their voice, because their voice really has street cred to it like nobody else’s.

That’s what I want to get into now. I want to get into, you’re still young, you’re still beautiful, you have more stories now, more wins that have even nothing to do with pool, the winning in life with your children, with your beating cancer. These are now universal stories that people really want to hear about. It goes beyond, you transcend sports. What are you going to do with it now? The book comes out next year. What’s your dream now? You’re still an entrepreneur in Tampa with the pool league, but what are you going to do next? What’s your dreams for the years ahead?

Jeanette: And you can still watch my documentary, Jeanette Lee Versus, on ESPN+. ESPN+ 30 for 30. You can look for Jeanette Lee Versus to see my documentary. If you haven’t learned my entire life story through this podcast.

John: And people can find you on Instagram and Facebook. You’re on Instagram and Facebook.

Jeanette: Yep. Instagram is Jeanette Lee. Facebook, Twitter is Black Widow. But Facebook is where I like to do a lot of videos, although I’m thinking about doing a YouTube. What do you think? I was thinking about doing a YouTube thing maybe once a week, regularly.

John: That’s the place to be now. That is the place to be. And you’ll do well there. You’ll do very well there. That’s the place.

Jeanette: Yeah. Because I have a pool table and I was thinking between teaching pool and just talking about life or I don’t know.

John: Yeah. I think you would just be tremendous. With a YouTube channel and that could even be tied back to, I mean, I think YouTube would be a great forum for you because that’s where all, I have young kids and they have friends and that’s where all the kids are at now.

Jeanette: I have a YouTube channel. I just don’t post videos. I just post videos of me like all through the years if you go to my YouTube channel it has all these different videos with me in it. Like me on the Rocawear commercial or me on the Ford commercial or bass pro commercial or the Arliss show or you know.

John: Right. Arliss was great.

Jeanette: Yeah, I was on that twice I was played vita’s cousin and we went in and hustled a couple of guys it was a lot of fun.

John: If I remember right. You were also on Jimmy Kimmel’s show on the Man Show at one point.

Jeanette: Yeah.

John: The ESPN commercials are hilarious. They’re awesome. So, but I mean, so what are you going to… the book is going to come out and Tom is your agent. Are you thinking about a movie, a major motion picture or a longer form documentary, and then what do you want to do in terms of public speaking and things of that stuff, giving a voice?

Jeanette: So when I was diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer, and I came to grips with it. And I had set my mind that I’m fighting this because my kids are not going to lose their mom. They’re just not ready. And when that happened, I also thought something good has to come from this. I know that this is happening for a reason. I know it’s because I’m supposed to do something with this. I just don’t know what it is yet. So then I learn more about ovarian cancer and I meet a friendly said just who, a friend of a friend, who has had ovarian cancer several times. And so she has become kind of a mentor to me.

And then I get in the process of making the documentary, we get invited to Dick Vitale’s home for actually, and a hotel nearby for a big fundraiser for the V Foundation. So ESPN has the Jimmy Valvano, the V Foundation, which supports cancer research. And that was where I went, Bing, that’s it. Because I was like, something good has to come from it. It’s the only thing that makes sense. I said, you can’t go through hell and not have something good from it. The only way you can not have something good come from it is if you quit on yourself. But otherwise look around and be available, pay attention. And so while I was fighting this and doing what I needed to do, I wanted to spend quality time with my children, with whatever time I had left. And I said, but I also wanted to use my voice.

And so I said, I want to speak out about ovarian cancer because that’s what I’m going through, and I’m assuming I’m going through this so that I can help other cancer victims. I said, I just don’t know how. I said, where’s my platform? Should I start small? What should I do? Should I start a support group? There’s not really a good ovarian cancer support group right here in this town. Maybe I’m meant to do that, da da da. And then just coincidentally, well, I’m invited to Dick Vitale’s house. And I mean, hearing him speak, Dick is very passionate for pediatric cancer. But it was still super inspiring. And so I said, okay, this is where I can reach more people. Because I said, well, I’m just going to keep trying to impress people on Facebook. I mean, there’s more than that. There’s more than Facebook.

John: Oh, yeah.

Jeanette: And so that’s why so then I started thinking YouTube and I said, but without direction and without knowledge, what could I do? It’s got to be more than that. And so this V foundation, they have the experience, they have everything.

John: The infrastructure. They have the infrastructure.

Jeanette: They have the infrastructure to lead me and allow me thank goodness. I’m very proud to be an ambassador for the V Foundation.

John: That’s wonderful.

Jeanette: In fact, we just started right now we have a fundraiser going on called the Black Widow 14.1. It’s like a straight pool. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen The Hustler with Jackie Gleason, and [inaudible]

John: Sure.

Jeanette: Well, they’re playing the game called Straight Pool. It’s called 14.1 continuous. It’s straight pull. You count the number of balls you say 12 ball, corner pocket, eight ball, cyber whatever it is. And you race to a 100 points and whoever wins wins. I hold the world record of 102 consecutive balls run without stopping. Without missing.

John: Oh my gosh.

Jeanette: And so it just coincidentally, and it was a very known, reputable practice partner Stumatan. We had numbers of witnesses, so I was lucky that it just happened to be that we had a crowd watching. But, so they’re doing this and so each player we’re hoping that 16 to 20 of the different women will come and they have two or three days to be at Streetlight Billiard Academy to try to run everything’s filmed on camera and rack for them. And they try to run as many balls as they can. And then sponsors will commit like a dollar or whatever it is for each ball that they run and raise money for the V Foundation that way.

John: That’s, so that’s part of your future. The book, the V Foundation is part of your future. And then creating a new platform for yourself potentially with either YouTube or the platforms that exist, doing something there. And getting your message out, getting your voice heard.

Jeanette: Yes. And also it’s so important that I still spend quality time with my children, that they remember that I made time for them. Throughout these last years. Because again, ovarian cancer always comes back and normally not a lot make it past five years. I plan to live 2030, but I’m just saying, I still got to keep in mind the way that it is because ovarian cancer tends to stay dormant. So even though it’s not visible, like it’ll rear its ugly head and then you’re going through it again. And sometimes it’s too. So I want to spend that quality time with them and or maybe even involve them in something I’m doing. But another big thing is like, how am I paying my bills.

John: You got a lot of kids, these bills. These bills.

Jeanette: I’ve got a lot of kids and I haven’t been working for two years.

John: So what do you think on that level, what are you going to do on that level?

Jeanette: So I’ve got to figure out income. So I’m going to have to pick the ear. Well, probably someone like you, but several people on I don’t think anyone gets rich off YouTube or what else do they, on Instagram? Like that.

John: Right. Very, very, yeah.

Jeanette: But through that, I know there’s a few friends that are not nearly as known as I am that have done videos on there. And from that, they got a lot of lessons and students. And me charging a couple hundred dollars of an hour to teach somebody is compared to what I was making. I’m not going to get real excited about it. But I do teach and I love to teach. But what I do is I do clinics where I’m teaching 10 or 12 people at 300 per student for a full, like, six hour day. And we’re going through specific things. And I’ll have another trainer with me to make sure. And so that makes more sense. And I can also do exhibitions for different companies. I’m starting to be strong enough to do that now. I did a couple of them successfully because we weren’t sure, because I was pretty weak last year. So I’m just still building stamina. I don’t know if you can tell, but I’m pretty thin and I don’t want to be this thin. I’m looking a little bit stronger.

John: You look amazing. I mean, just your skin, your body. Honestly, Jeanette, you look tremendous. Really tremendous.

Jeanette: Nice. Thank you. Yeah. I definitely feel like I aged though through the cancer just because for two years I didn’t go out and put makeup on. I just let myself age and get sick and get skinny and obviously I regret it now, but you got to do what you got to do. You know?

John: And if you’ve aged, we all have big problems because I said, when we started this thing four hours ago, you looked much younger than your years. So your book comes out next year. I shared this with you earlier. I want you to come back on this show. I’m going to buy copies of the book. I’m going to have you sign them. I want to get them out to your audience and our audience here. Jeanette, I just have to say, even though I’ve followed your career, and I’ve watched many interviews with you before, and I’ve of course watched the Jeanette Lee versus special. I never heard a lot of the stories you shared with our listeners today and viewers, I know they’re going to want to know more. I know we’re all excited about your book coming out.

And and everyone’s excited about the next chapter for Jeanette Lee because everything you’ve done has been about excellence and overcoming and not only surviving. Surviving is one thing, thriving is another. And you are just a great example of all that. You’ve inspired me many points in my life. And I know that you transcend the sport of pool and there’s so many other people, a new generation that needs to hear your voice and needs to hear your journey. And so I want to have you back when the book comes out. And I just wish you all the life’s blessings and good health for you, your children and your mom of course, and dad and everyone that supported you along this fascinating and inspiring and important journey.

Jeanette: Thank you so much. I’m looking forward to being back on here again. And the other income source I would love to do public speaking. I have done that plenty in the past. I unfortunately never really thought to keep it all on camera and get it. And it’s been a while. But I would love to do public speaking. I enjoy doing trick shot shows. I love teaching, and I’ve got merch. I’ve got all kinds of merch. Teacher,

John: Where can people buy the merch?

Jeanette: But that’s the problem.

John: Okay. We’re going to…

Jeanette: So I have a local league and I’ve got all this merch. So whenever we have a Jeanette: tournament, I pop up and we just, but there’s a demand, the number of everything that I ask, can I buy a Q ball? Where can I get a signed picture from you? But I was so sick and I don’t have somebody that to ship and I’d have to build a store and I’m just now getting strong and I’m trying to forgive myself for not taking more advantage step by step.

John: You’re going to get there.

Jeanette: And I’ve got to balance quality time with children. Feeding my family and being an inspiration and being strong, not by enjoying the suffering and making it look easy, but by getting out of bed on all those mornings where you feel like you just can’t. And I just, I just want to will people to want more for themselves. Like when I said things can only get better if you don’t quit.

John: That’s right.

Jeanette: And even if you have quit quitting is never… you can always get out of that. Get out of bed. Start with that. And when I first started getting out of bed, my muscles atrophied, I was so thin, I’ve lost a lot of my muscle tone and now I’m going to physical therapy. I’m going to have to go to physical therapy. I’m going to physical therapy because I don’t want to be weak and a victim for the rest of my life. I want to be a girl who’s hopping and popping and going around and enjoying the days that God wants for us. But I can’t just expect it to be handed to me. I’ve got to do the work. So I’m doing the work to be an inspiration and hopefully provide for my family. I’m even thinking about going back on tour.

John: Whoa.

Jeanette: So that’s crazy because I haven’t played in years, but I was playing the other day and I was really enjoying it. And I just got approved for the spinal cord stimulator. It doesn’t help for my neck problem or the brachial plexus, but all the sciatic problem and lower back problem, it totally gets rid of that. If that’s a success, if my body will let me keep it right, then breaking balls after all, I don’t think I’ll be number one ever again. But not because I can’t, it’s because I’m not willing to dedicate the amount of time it would take to get back to number one, there are so many women that are so amazing that play constantly. And well, that’s my children’s time.

John: That’s right. You didn’t have a family like you have now when you were number one. So the circumstances changed, but if you could still play and love it…

Jeanette: I would enjoy it. Yeah. As long as I’m not embarrassing myself, I want to be playing enough to where at least feel like I’m somewhat where I was. But it is a lot of fun and I think I’ll play pool for the rest of my life. And I’ve really enjoyed talking to you, John.

John: Oh, Jeanette, you’re absolute joy.

Jeanette: We’ve been friends a long time. It was just so easy to talk to you. You’ve made me feel so comfortable. And I’ve watched your other podcasts and you’re really good at what you do.

John: Thank you.

Jeanette: So I hope that I can learn from that. And if you ever have extra tips, feel free to email me or call me.

John: I do. I do. So you stand by. So when we sign off here, we’re going to talk for five more minutes before I let you go today.

Jeanette: Thank you.

John: We’re going to talk [inaudible] and thank you again and I can’t wait to one day, hopefully with all the right stars and blessings lining up, I hope I get to meet you in person because you are just one of those specially important people. Life puts people together for a different reason. You are an inspiration to my audience, to me. And I want other people to hear your voice because it’s an important voice.

Jeanette: Thank you so much, and I really appreciate your time and your interest. I really felt honored that you would have me on your show and I really genuinely mean that. And so thank you so much. Thank you guys. I will see you soon.

John: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking platform revolutionizing the talent booking industry with thousands of athletes, celebrities, entrepreneurs, and business leaders. Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent, for speeches, custom experiences, live streams, and much more. For more information on Engage or to book talent today, visit letsengage.com. This edition of The Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet and your privacy, and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.