Theron Grim, Hasbro Inc.’s Vice President of Global Environment, Health, Safety and Sustainability, oversees Hasbro’s Global ESG and Sustainability Programs, achieving high scores across relevant stakeholder evaluation programs/platforms. In his four years at Hasbro, Theron has developed program/processes and directed the on-time delivery of international GHG/EHS data reporting for all business units, operating assets and business partners. Through cross-company collaboration, he set Science-Based Targets and developed climate risk framework in accordance with TCFD. 

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John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. I’m John Shegerian, and I’m so excited to have with us today Theron Grim. He’s the Vice President of Global Environment, Health, Safety, and Sustainability of Hasbro. Welcome to the Impact Podcast, Theron.

Theron Grim: Thanks for having me, John.

John: Hey, listen, you’re sitting in Rhode Island today, and I’m sitting in Fresno, California, but it’s just 2 guys having a conversation and talking about all these important issues of environment, health, safety, and sustainability. But before we get talking about all the important work you’re doing at Hasbro with your colleagues, what’s your background, Theron? Where’d you grow up, and how’d you get on this very important and impactful journey that you’re on?

Theron: Yeah, great. I grew up in Maryland, and I went to the University of Maryland, and it really started with the fact that at the university, we had the entire month of January off. So in my sophomore year, a friend and I decided to strap our bikes and our skis to the top of our car. We drove cross-country, skiing and biking all the way across and really fell in love with the West. I fell in love with the mountains and all the different types of rock formations. So I ended up going into geologies, which is probably something that you don’t hear often from people on your podcast.

John: No, I don’t. And how did that go?

Theron: Yeah. I went into geology and then really went into the consulting world. So I spent probably the first half of my career doing environmental consulting, a lot of environmental remediation, clean-ups of contaminated sites, Superfund sites, military sites. From there, I transitioned into working on the other side, working for the industry. And really, that’s when I really started expanding the role, really taking on sustainability and safety, and did that about 15 years ago at this point. And that was my track moving forward.

John: Understood. And then how many years ago, approximately, did you join the great company, the iconic brand Hasbro?

Theron: I’ve been here almost 5 years now. So, I guess, I joined during COVID and moved up here from North Carolina during COVID, and I’ve been happy and excited working here ever since.

John: Can’t blame you. Obviously, there’s a lot of work you’ve got to do, and it’s a very important and critical role. But to be surrounded by Marvel characters and all the iconic and wonderful games and brands that we all grew up with, and we all know so very well, what a joy. For our listeners and viewers out there who are not particularly familiar with Hasbro as a name brand, you can find Hasbro at hasbro.com. Their annual revenue is north of $5 billion. They have over 5,000 employees. It’s a global company, and it’s responsible for Monopoly, Nerf, Play-Doh, Transformers, My Little Pony, Life, The Game of Life, Power Rangers, Star Wars products. I have, no pun intended, a monopoly on so many of the great games and toys and action figures that I grew up with, my kids grew up with, my grandchildren are now growing up with. It’s such a great brand.

Theron: Yeah, I think if most people open their game closets at home, they probably at least have a game that’s one of ours, if not more of the toys and collectibles. One thing I’ll just add in there, we also have Wizards of the Coast. It’s one of our divisions where we have more of our gaming side of things, Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering as well. We really lean heavily on games in lots of different ways, on both the Hasbro brand and the Wizards of the Coast brand, along with all the toys that we make for everybody.

John: You joined about 5 years ago. When you joined, was there already a person doing your role, or did you come into that proverbial blank page and you had to start from scratch a sustainability and EH&S program? How did that work?

Theron: A little bit of both, I think, and you’ve kind of split the 2 roles. The environment, health, and safety, there had been in the past, but we were in this transition from owning our own factories, where we had a big safety and environmental presence, to all of that work being contracted out to a third party. In that time, the department went down from about 10 to zero. I picked that back up and really started the program off and really developed that now with our third-party factory partners that we have. That one was like a little bit from scratch and a little bit picking up from the past. And then sustainability, we really started with a very small two-person team when I started, and really took over from them and have grown that team since then. Sustainability is moving so fast. The world of ESG and sustainability, so much has changed in the 5 years that I’ve been here. I think it’s been an exciting journey and it’s really just the beginning, but we had a really strong foundation when I came in, which is one of the reasons I joined Hasbro to begin with.

John: That’s so interesting. As you just pointed out, the world has changed and evolved. And now we’re dealing with an alphabet soup of rules and regs, like you said, ESG, DEI, the huge move from the traditional legacy, linear economy to the circular economy. And sustainability can be read very narrowly or widely. When you came in about 5 years ago, how wide or narrow did you read sustainability? How did you create your sequence of goals in an order that made sense in terms of the company’s mission and the company’s corporate imperatives?

Theron: Yeah, that’s a good question. And I think it’s one of those things that’s continuing to change over time. Even the goals that we set up when I first came in are not necessarily the goals I have today. It’s just how fast-paced everything is. For many people, that’s what’s so exciting about being in this field is the fact that we are constantly learning, constantly changing, and really trying to strive for that next goal, trying to better the environment, reduce the footprint of our company, and really provide a better environment for our customers to enjoy all of the great products we have. But I’ll say what really started as a nice-to-have, I think that’s what we looked at with sustainability is, this was a nice-to-have program. It’s something that we could potentially differentiate ourselves from one of our competitors, or we could have a particular product that we could differentiate from another by saying this is green or sustainable. And now it’s really evolving into something much more structured. These regulations that are coming out, especially in Europe, the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive, the SEC is also coming out sometime soon with reporting on greenhouse gas emissions. It’s really moving to a regulatory requirement. That’s really this big shift that’s been happening over the past year or two. And the rigor behind what we’re doing is getting more and more the need to assure all of our data as we put in. So we generate our ESG report annually. We’ve, for many years now, have taken our greenhouse gas emissions data and assured that. Moving forward, much of the other data, the social data, the governance data, all of that will have to go into that same process and really have the same controls that you would over financial data.

John: Talk a little bit about that. You brought up regulatory issues. Obviously, the EU is moving first, but Gary Gensler and the SEC aren’t far behind. And obviously, Asia, LATAM, and other parts of the world are also not going to be far behind. The Patrick Quilt of regs, does that make you nuts? And shouldn’t there be some form of harmonization coming down the road that can, not for the fact of just making it easier, just make it more rational for leaders like you to manage global EH&S and sustainability issues when you have global brands like yours that you need to balance all the interests in and do the right thing, but you can’t spend 27 hours a day just on figuring out the rules and regs in every part of the world?

Theron: Yeah, unfortunately, that’s the reality right now. But you mentioned one word in there that I feel like is so important. It’s harmonization. Honestly, we were just talking about that earlier today. We were in regards to the Australia packaging rules that are coming out, and we were asking for comments. One of our comments was just, “Please harmonize this with every other requirements that are coming out across the globe.” If we could just have one, we could all agree on the amount of recycled material that needs to go into our plastic packaging, or the labeling, how to recycle labels. It sounds so simple, but when you start thinking about every jurisdiction around the globe wanting something slightly different or in their own language, it just gets to be logistically so difficult to comply and to make sure that you’re doing it correctly.

John: Yeah. Do you feel even though right now, it’s, for lack of better terminology, the Wild West in terms of regulations, as they are produced, and more leaders like you band together and call for harmonization, do you feel that in the future, regulators will start seeing the light that a form of harmonization is beneficial to the greater good for all?

Theron: I hope so. I think we are seeing other jurisdictions at least asking, “Should we do it this way?” And this is specifically usually to the EU because they’re so far advanced and theirs are more robust, I think, than many of the other programs. And yes, I think being able to comply with one set of rules for all jurisdictions would just make it so much easier. And it’s never going to be quite there, but I feel like it’s already getting better. You said the alphabet soup. Before regulations, we were reporting to SASB and GRI, and there were so many different frameworks that we did. They were all voluntary. And trying to pick which frameworks every different stakeholder would want to see, it was really challenging. And we ended up reporting out on most of them. And we want to move at some point from reporting to action. I think the whole reason most of us got into this business is because we want to enact change and we want to make things better. And data is really important to do that. But at some point, we also have to be able to act. So I think that’s important to balance those.

John: Great point. So you walk in 5 years ago or so, and you’re working with the leadership team and the C-suite, and you have a big title. Obviously, global environment, health, and safety itself is a wide title. And when you bring in sustainability, it can be read narrowly, widely, depending on where you sit and what brands you’re working with or organizations. Where did you start? Did you create net zero emission goals? Did you create ESG goals, DEI goals, all of the above? And how do you sequence these in the greater good, in the greater picture, working with Hasbro’s mission, of course, of being a successful and profitable and growing brand?

Theron: Yeah, luckily, I have so many good partners internally that I get to work with. A lot of those, especially we have really strong social goals that are coming out of our HR, our philanthropy departments. So a lot of those were in really good shape when we started. My focus was a lot on the environmental side, really making sure that we brought the rigor and the process to collecting that data. So that was something that we were only in the infant stage when I came in and really had to bring in and try to increase the amount of data we collected, increase the quality of data we collected so that we can bring that up to the levels of some of the others. Governance as well was already very mature. So the social, the S and G of ESG were in really good shape. I focused on E, bringing that up to hopefully close to my colleagues who lead the S and G and really bring those all together so that we could start making real decisions based on the totality of all that information.

John: Got you. Like you said, your paradigm shift from owning your own factories to managing now third-party contractors. Does that make it easier for what you do or more difficult for what you do? Or is it, those people that… [crosstalk]

Theron: No, way more difficult. Yeah. I think anytime… When we look at our own emissions, we still own or operate 60 offices around the globe and 6 distribution centers. And my ability to get information from them is pretty easy. It’s me picking up the phone to another Hasbro employee and saying, “Hey, can I get your electricity invoices? Just can you send them over by email and we’ll, our team can put them in the system.” That’s easy. Now going out to a third party, we have less control over their actions. The relationships are different because they have relationships with many different parts of Hasbro. They might not always want to listen to the sustainability guy. So it’s been more challenging. We’ve tried to streamline that. One way is we use a platform called Wordly, used to be called HIG. And a lot of it was really put in place more for textile companies originally, but these factories could all put their data into there. And then any retailer like us or customer like us could grab the information out of there. And that allowed a factory that served multiple different customers. They might, let’s just say it was us and Nike and Gap all got stuff from the same factory. We could all go into this platform and get the information off. And that way the factory didn’t have to give it to 3 different people. So we are trying to find ways to simplify the data collection process for these people, because they’re getting so many requests. We get so many requests. There’s so much need and want for information out there that, you know, trying to find the most efficient ways to collect it is really important.

John: Now you’ve been there almost 5 years, Theron. What lessons have you learned? Like you said, things are ever-changing and the evolution’s happening at a breakneck speed right now. What lessons have you learned running Hasbro’s ESG leadership and function during the last 5 years?

Theron: I always talk about continuous improvement. I think that’s really important. And I don’t want perfect to get in the way of progress is another one. And that was a quote from my former boss. It’s really important that we keep trying to move forward and we shouldn’t be scared of making progress because we’re scared of mistakes. And, it happens. And I think it’s about taking 2 steps forward, maybe one step back, but you have to take those steps. You have to put yourself out there and sometimes you get it right. Sometimes you don’t. And one example that I’ll bring up, I think it’s an important one for people just to know that things don’t always go exactly as you think. I think when we talk, most people, when they put out their ESG reports or communications, they really celebrate the wins, right? Nobody really talks about the losses or the lessons learned. So I want to just share one with everyone because I think it’s important for them to know, we all go through this and it’s around plastic-free packaging. So we had an initiative that started, before I started there, but what I took over with taking plastic out of all of our packaging. So we, our goal was to have that done by 2023. We were on track to get that done. Technically it’s feasible. It was difficult. We had to rework all of the packaging, really try to understand how are we going to continue to display the product and secure the product in the same way we had in the past. So we’re getting close to the goal. I think what happened is we had some macroeconomic trends that came out at the same time. There was a lot of toys and games being bought during COVID, and then it fell off in ’22 because everybody bought everything that they needed for years. You don’t need to keep buying a monopoly every year. So we rode this wave and we were on the… Just as plastic-free packaging was really rolling out, we were on the downside of this demand. We had a low demand year in ’22, a couple of movies didn’t do as well as we thought, which drives sales of certain figures. And so that was part of it. And then we also, I guess, didn’t really take into account fully the consumer when we were looking at that. And we actually had a lot of feedback from our collector side of things. I’m not a collector. I didn’t really think about this. I think, but a lot of people collect those action figures and they don’t take them out of the packaging and they want to be able to see that action figure. They put them up on their shelf and they collect the Star Wars and keep them in those packages for the life of that product. They didn’t really like having the product in a package that they couldn’t see it. So all those things together, we backtracked a little bit. I think it was successful in a way. There’s many products that continue to be plastic-free. I think the Play-Doh, when the box that carries the smaller Play-Doh containers can continue to be plastic-free. So, we’ve made a lot of progress, but we definitely went backwards on many of the, especially like the action figures, things that would be a collectible. They’ve gone back to plastic. So that felt like a little bit of a loss. I think we pivoted and try to figure out what are some other ways that we can enact change or make impacts that will offset that difference. And I think we were able to do that.

John: That’s great. For our listeners and viewers who’ve just joined us, we’ve got Theron Grim with us today. He’s the Vice President of Global Environment, Health, Safety, and Sustainability at Hasbro. To find Theron and his colleagues at Hasbro and all the important work they’re doing in sustainability and EH&S work, please go to, www.hasbro.com. Obviously one of the key pillars of any good sustainability or EH&S program now is radical transparency, which also includes reporting. Talk a little bit about how over the 5 years you’ve continued to drive improvements in transparency and reporting at Hasbro across your global network and brand.

Theron: Yeah, I think putting a process together to really make sure you’re collecting appropriate data and then using that data to make decisions is what’s really important. And just to tie in that last example I talked about with plastic-free packaging, plastic-free packaging, single-use plastic is something that’s talked about all the time. This is a huge topic. We have a lot of stakeholders who are very interested in this. Once we look at our numbers, and this is something we’ve done now in the past 2 years, we find that our packaging, less than 5% by weight is actually plastic. And our packaging in general is less than 5% of our total greenhouse gas emissions. Is that really where we should be focusing our time and our efforts to enact change and to ultimately reduce our greenhouse gas emissions? Or is there another place that we could be spending our effort and making a bigger difference? And what we found is, transportation is a significantly larger place that we could be changing. These things aren’t always as exciting to talk about to the public, like container efficiency. How many toys and boxes can we fit in a container? And can we increase that to 95% instead of 85%? And that reduces the amount of containers and the amount of shipping. These are all things that we can do and really push change and probably are a better way to do that other than focusing it on what is kind of the shiny thing.

John: Well, I’m so glad you said that, because really that’s the reality of it. The media, they can’t get off their broken record of one story that the plastic is choking all the dolphins around the world and it’s the boogeyman of the environment. But as you these very behind-the-scenes, opaque, non-sexy issues that can move the needle much greater when it comes to reduction of greenhouse gases, which goes to the greater good of the planet of us trying to cool down this world, such as transportation and logistics. That’s everybody’s challenge now. And what you’re saying makes so much sense. And it’s just a great reality check for all of us to have instead of getting massively hyperbolic all the time about plastic. And by the way, all plastics are not created equal. Much of plastics now that are created are very recyclable. We’re in a business that recycles over 95% of our plastics. It’s coming and that world is changing as well. But as you said, these other important issues to cover, transportation is a great one. And I’m so glad you brought that up. Let’s change a little bit. I get to be reunited with all your amazing games again, because I have a four-and-a-half-year-old granddaughter. So I’ve been playing with Play-Doh again and playing Monopoly again. And that’s the analogue side of your business and your wonderful brands. Talk a little bit about the shift in this world, not just at Hasbro, to digital gaming. How does that affect your brand? And therefore, how does that affect your sustainability and ESG outlook?

Theron: Yeah, that’s a good point. We are trying to capture that shift as well while we continue to make great toys. And I think there will always be a really important place in a child’s development and an adult’s entertainment for physical toys and games. Reality is, people spend more and more time on digital devices. And we can take our products and put them into a digital format and allow them to entertain them in a lot of different ways. And we’ve done that. I think 2 big examples, we’ve had really successful partnerships and licensing with other partners this year with Monopoly Go, which is a mobile game. And then also Baldur’s Gate 3, which we partnered with Larian Studios. That’s a AAA video game. That’s a Dungeons and Dragons game. And both of those have been wildly successful over the past year. And so we’re really looking to continue that progress in digital gaming. We’ve invested over a billion dollars in 4 AAA video game studios. So we’re looking to come out, I think, starting next year with some games that are developed by Hasbro Studios to continue that process. But there’s definitely been a shift. We do a lot of our work with Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering. Those are games that traditionally have been played in person. If you don’t know, Magic the Gathering are kind of cards. And then I think a lot of people have been reintroduced to Dungeons and Dragons through Stranger Things. So again, something that you usually do in person. But I think even during COVID, one of the great things, like my son, he played Dungeons and Dragons with his friends back in North Carolina. He was able to do that online and play. So it was a great way to connect. And they’ve capitalized on that. And now there are some digital platforms where people can get together and play Magic and Dungeons and Dragons online, which is great. So then in addition to the video games, it allows people to connect personally as well, still doing those games. And it eliminates the distance between people who live across the country.

John: It bears noting that you produce every year Hasbro ESG report, correct?

Theron: Yes.

John: And lives in perpetuity on hasbro.com’s website?

Theron: Yes.

John: So talk a little bit about some of the things that you’re most proud of as you evolve that ESG report in terms of your ESG net zero and your other goals that are all encapsulated within those important topics.

Theron: In order to find it, Hasbro ESG report on Google, it’ll pop right up. You’ll go right to the site. You can click on every year is there with our most recent one being for fiscal year 2023. We have a lot of information in there. We’re really proud of that report. I have a great team who puts that together every year. Science-based targets is something that we put into place in 2022. And those we have for both Scopes 1 and 2, which are the emissions that we have from our own operations. And then Scope 3, which is our supply chain, we have it’s respectively 47 and 42% reductions by 2030. And then we’ve also set those net zero goals, which are for 2050. We are now in the process of continuing to back all that up with plans. How are we actually going to get there, right? That’s the important thing, not just to commit to it, but actually to have a plan. We’re hoping to roll out that plan early next year. And we’re doing that in conjunction with all of the mandatory reporting coming out of Europe. We’re going to be subject to that in 2026 on 25 data. So we’ve been focusing a lot this year on getting ready for CSRD reporting, making sure we’re going to start collecting that data next year. And then where all of that will be incorporated into how our plan comes together finally. And we’re hoping to have that out about the same time as our annual report next year, which will be in Q2, hopefully, May of next year. So, look forward to 24 report coming soon.

John: Theron, how do you spend your time? Is it all in the office and in doing these kinds of Zoom meetings across the planet, or do you spend a lot of your time in the office, but also some of your time on the road checking out third-party contractors and suppliers around the world? How does it work with high-level sustainability or EH&S officers now that are really in charge of very big and iconic and global brands? How do you find a happy mix of interpersonal relationships, both in-person, but also using these wonderful technologies we have like Zoom and Teams to leverage technology to also help you get things done without adding to carbon emissions, vis-a-vis airplanes and other things.

Theron: Yeah, that’s my excuse not to travel, right? I’m saving the environment.

John: Exactly. Love it.

Theron: I do. And obviously, everybody knows this huge shift after COVID to using online tools. It has changed everything that I’ve done. I traveled a lot before COVID with past roles. Now I’m able to in most cases, especially for sustainability. There are a couple times when it’s necessary to see a process to really understand how that plastic is being manufactured. It might be important to go. I find myself, the times I do travel, it’s mostly for the safety side of things. When I put my safety hat on, still very hands-on. I’m going to a couple of factories next week on a Monday down in North Carolina. That you still have to see, you still have to feel the environmental side, the sustainability side. Luckily, I can do a lot more of that remotely. I think, again, we’re having a really… We have teams in place, we have an ethical sourcing team, which is great, who’s on the ground in Asia, where a lot of our factories are. So we leverage them, we work really closely with them. If I need eyes on the ground, I don’t have to fly to China. I can use those teams that are already in place to do a lot of the hands-on work that I might have done in the past. So we work closely, we train them. They are also sustainability experts. I think as a leader, my goal is to educate people throughout the organization. It’s the same with safety, right? A really good operating safety program or sustainability program is one that is not people coming and asking me questions. They should be able to do a lot of these things themselves. I want to empower people to make decisions, a sustainable decision or a safety decision on their own. So education, really trying to help people along the way to make the whole organization something that has that culture embedded in it.

John: Makes sense. What are you looking forward to? You have 5 years in arrears. What trends and other innovations in sustainability are you looking forward to in the years ahead?

Theron: I’m hoping, and I see it coming from some of these other companies who I think have a little bit easier time with less products like Lego for one. They’re making really good progress on sustainable materials for their plastics. Again, theirs'[?] a little bit different because they have one material and making one product, I won’t make it overly simplified, but they’re able to make real progress and we’re hoping that we can look and see and help use and leverage a lot of the work that others are doing in this space. Sustainable materials is going to be the way we go. We know that there’s a lot of extended producer responsibility, taxes coming on plastics, things that we’re going to have to get in front of, and just the innovation, how fast things are changing is really exciting, I think, to be part of.

John: A lot of OEMs now, 20 years ago, sustainability was nice to them, but wasn’t a moral or corporate imperative, it now is. And they’ve created divisions inside the company called Design for Sustainability or something close to that. Is that something that’s a subset of what you do in terms of design for sustainability? Is there a little design for sustainability tucked into the business division that you run?

Theron: Yeah, we work really closely with all our design engineers and our quality team. We have what we call the sustainability center of excellence and it’s kind of a place we can come together and all talk about those topics. And things specific, we have some challenges in the toy industry when it comes to safety, which is always coming first. But when we talk about like replacement parts, durability. These are all things that we’d like to continue to work with those teams on to really try to find ways to move them forward. Sometimes there’s some issues with replacement parts but it’d be great if we can get to the point where we’re able to fix things that are broken rather than just throw them away, right? So these are the kinds of things we continue to work on and hopefully work through those challenges. Recycled content is great. Plastic content is great for packaging. There’s still some safety, they’re not safety issues, but there’s perceived safety issues in certain jurisdictions about using recycled plastic and especially children’s toys. Those are all things we’re trying to work through. I think we’re going to get to the point where there’s such great products out there now and they keep getting better every day for us to really be able to start using those on a more routine basis.

John: There’s not a day that you and I can turn on our television or read the papers such as CNBC, Bloomberg, Fox, any of them. And the words AI come up all the time. How does AI, what role does AI have with regards to sustainability? We’re going through a major hype cycle now with AI. Is it more hype? Is it really going to help us in our sustainability efforts at Hasbro and also for other leaders like you around the world, or is it a more benign application?

Theron: I think there’s going to be positives and negatives. It’s a tough question though, because it’s such a new topic that’s changing so fast. I think the first thing we’re trying to get a hold of on our side is, what are those powers? We hear that there’s these huge power resources needed to run AI. And how do we start quantifying what those are, especially as those are further and further down the supply chain, that those are at the Amazon web service site or something. How do we really key in on what are those resources that in every other way I’m already measuring, right? And now we’re putting in a new variable. How do we start figuring that out? And is it going to be beneficial? We’re really going to have to know what that is so we can start measuring and looking at those trade-offs. There’s a lot of issues that we deal with here because creativity of people is still so important to our business and so important to our customers. Having actual artists making the artwork on our magic cards is something that is important. So we have to be careful of how and where we use AI. I think there’s places where it can be used and should probably be used moving forward in our business and there’s places where we definitely don’t want to use it. We think it’s really important to keep that creative process going. I think we’re still trying to find those. It’s a tough one and there definitely seems to be a sensitive topic to many. We’re trying to navigate our way through it. We have an entire group that’s working on making sure that we have the right governance in place to make sure we stay on the right side of that, moving forward. But I think there’s going to be ways that this is really going to help us on the sustainability side in the future. And I’m really looking forward to seeing where we can go with that on the energy side and the data side. I’m really hoping it can help us on the data side. There’s a lot of opportunity out there.

John: A lot of leaders like you who sit in the positions like you said, tell me the same thing, there’s positives and negatives, but one thing they’re hopeful about is the ability for AI to help with predictive analytics for the future. Hopefully, that bears out.

Theron: Yeah, we’ll keep doing it. We have so many good creative people working on ways to use it appropriately. And they just keep coming up with ways of blowing our mind every day. So we can’t wait to see what we can do next.

John: Theron, thank you so much for your time today. For our listeners and viewers to find Theron and his colleagues at Hasbro in sustainability and to find all the important great work they’re doing, please go to, www.hasbro.com. Theron Grim, thanks again, not only for your time today but more importantly, for the work you and your colleagues are doing at Hasbro to make the world a better place.

Theron: Great. Thanks, John.

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