Lindsay Philpott, currently the Senior Sustainability Communications Manager at KIND, is a driven leader fueled by a passion for climate action and equity. With nearly 10 years of expertise in social impact communications, Lindsay has led purpose campaigns that have driven growth and built a competitive advantage. 

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John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. I’m John Shegerian, and I’m so excited to have with us today, Lindsay Philpott. She’s the Senior Sustainability Communications Manager for Kind Snacks. Welcome, Lindsay, to the Impact Podcast.

Lindsay Philpott: Hi, John. Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

John: I’m so excited to have you here. And you are living the dream. You grew up in New Jersey. You’re working in Manhattan. mean, who’s better than you? And you’re young. Come on.

Lindsay: I’m a Jersey girl born and raised. Yes, I am so thankful to be where I am. I’m living in Jersey City, going on the path, commuting to Times Square, which is interesting to say the least, but I love it.

John: It’s the heart of the city. Let’s just say it’s the heart of the city. You know, Lindsay, we were talking a little bit off the air. You grew up in Bergen County, North Jersey?

Lindsay: Yes, yes, I did.

John: And so how did you get on this fascinating and great journey that you’re on right now at Kind Snacks? Like what was the whole, who inspired you and who motivated you and how did you get here?

Lindsay: Yes, I love that question because there are so many different people that really impacted my journey to get to where I am today. And it really starts with, like you said, growing up in Bergen County with my parents. My parents are both very service oriented people. My dad’s a volunteer fireman. My mom’s a teacher. So it was really natural for me to want to serve others and to serve our planet. So when I got to my undergrad at Fordham, go Rams, I knew that I wanted to do something to be of service to others. So I actually got on a track to do international studies. I was an international political economy major, which is a mouthful of a major, but learned a lot about the world and how it functions and how I relate in it. And then also did a double major in English because I was always really fascinated by the English language. I’m a big reader. So then when I graduated, I thought, how can I use my skills that I have being a communicator, a natural communicator to service others? I found myself in the environmental space. So I worked at the Nature Conservancy first when I first graduated for a few years and I just loved it. It was incredible, the people, the mission. I just really found a home there and I knew I wanted to make a career out of communicating sustainability. So I found myself afterwards at an agency and then of course now with Kind and I’m really lucky to be at a brand that I love doing something that’s really fulfilling and purposeful.

John: And approximately how long ago did you join Kind?

Lindsay: Three years ago to the day, I think, John.

John: Wow. Happy anniversary.

Lindsay: Thank you.

John: You know, and for our listeners and viewers who don’t know Kind, they have, you know, they were started by, of course, the iconic entrepreneur Daniel Lubetzky back in 2004 and sold to Mars for a lot of money, like just say, and now the iconic brand Mars owns Kind Snacks and you have about 900 employees and doing business in about 35 countries around the world. Kind Snacks is a big company, Lindsay, let’s be honest.

Lindsay: Yes, it’s a big company. I know.

John: And for our listeners and viewers to find Lindsay and her colleagues and all the important work they’re doing in sustainability please go to www.KindSnacks.com. You and I were just having some fun off the air before we started taping this episode and I was sharing with you two funny stories. One this morning when I was getting ready to come in to record this episode, I was listening to an old episode of Howard Stern and Bill Murray was on this, was like two or three years ago and he was eating a Kind Bar on the air because he said, A, he loved it because it was delicious and B, he felt it was healthy for him. So I mean, what a great advertisement.

Lindsay: I know you couldn’t ask for a better free advertiser. Let me tell you.

John: And even said he says I’m not getting paid to do this. just like this. Oh, my gosh. And then I was sharing with you that I took my wife this last weekend to go see Lindsay over at the movie theater. And, you know, we’re the age now that we’re not supposed to be eating really a lot of junk. So I was very happily surprised to see there was this new snack that I never seen before called Kind clusters and it was dark chocolate with nuts and some dried fruit. It was delicious.

Lindsay: Oh yeah. think it’s dip clusters found in a lot of AMC’s, a lot of movie theaters. I personally think it’s the best movie snack. What’s better than a snack that’s not just you feel good eating it, but it’s also really tasty.

John: It was both. It was totally a win on both sides. Lindsay, talking about sustainability and Kind Snacks, I saw that Fast Company named Kind, one of the most innovative companies in 2024 for your Kind Almond Acres initiatives. What is the Kind Almond Acres initiative?

Lindsay: Yes, I love that question. It’s one of my favorite things to talk about. And that was such a proud moment for me in my career. just feel so passionate about this project. And I don’t think I have to tell you, John, but in California, where most of our almonds are grown, they’re facing a lot of challenges from drought and extreme weather to pollinator decline. So we kind of as Mars and Kind came to one of our biggest suppliers, OFI, and said, you know, we’ve heard regenerative practices have shown really great results with row crops, for example. What would it look like to bring these regenerative practices to a specialty crop like almonds? And that’s really how Kind Almond Acres Initiative was born. We launched the project in April 2003 during Earth Month, and it’s been our flagship sustainability program ever since. So it’s a three year pilot. We’re testing regenerative practices, set of five on 500 plus acres with our one of our supplier partners, OFI. And our goal is to really see what works best for almonds so we can use that information that we’re gathering to scale across our whole almond supply chain.

John: And which region is that happening in?

Lindsay: That’s happening mostly in Madera County, California, though we did expand it to Bakersfield last year.

John: And that’s why when you and I were first chatting off air that you said you were very familiar with Fresno because you come out here and you check on this initiative on a regular basis.

Lindsay: I do. And I’ve grown to love Fresno. So it was I was really happy to hear that. That’s where you were calling in from.

John: Oh, so nice. And so it’s so it’s so wonderful that you get to come out here. And it’s sort of the opposite of the world that you live in, the street and concrete. We come to see the great ag belt of the United States is here in Fresno in the Central Valley. So you get to get a little bit of the agricultural flavor also. That’s a wonderful balance. Lindsay, I see also that Kind, one top honors at the International Baking Industry Exposition for Sustainable Packaging. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Lindsay: Yes, this year we launched our paper wrapper pilot with Whole Foods. So that’s really what this the award was about. So we launched a paper wrapper pilot with Whole Foods and it’s across 160 stores in the US, three regions of the United States, roughly Southern California, the Texas region, and then Northeast. So New York, New Jersey, Connecticut area. And we’re really excited to test this paper wrapper pilot with Whole Foods.

John: What does that entail? Talk a little bit about the switch from the original type of packaging used to what does the recyclable paper wrapper mean in reality?

Lindsay: Yes. And one of the reasons we’re so excited about this as a brand is because it’s really unique in the US snacking space, I think, to see a paper wrapper. We were actually one of the first major snack brands to test a recyclable paper wrapper in the bar category. And what makes it really unique is that usually for most flexible plastics you see in snack packaging today, those aren’t able to be recycled at scale in the US because of infrastructure. The US infrastructure is behind a lot of European countries, for example. So while it might be technically recyclable, it’s not actually recyclable at scale. Paper, on the other hand, is something that can be recycled at scale today in curbside programs that we see across the country. So we really thought that introducing a paper wrapper would be an important first step in making our packaging more recyclable, recycle ready and cutting down on plastic waste. And I know whenever I talk about this, people are like, wow, that’s really incredible. Why aren’t, why aren’t I seeing other brands? Why is this so unique? And it’s because the paper packaging space is really challenging the packaging space in general for snack bars, especially snack packaging is very nuanced. And so it’s challenging to transition. It’s a challenging space to work in. And honestly, the reality is we don’t know if paper is the right next step. There’s a lot of things changing in the packaging landscape right now. There’s a lot of innovations happening that are trying to scale recyclability, recycled packaging while reducing the amount of plastic usage. And paper is just one of the many ways that you can accomplish that right now. And so we think that testing paper wrapper will be a good first step towards our broader recyclability goals. And that’s just how Kind operates. We want to show that a snack that’s better for you can be also better for the planet. And we see us as a brand that can really help spark change, bigger change across the industry. So if we’re investing in this test, we hope to inspire others to do the same.

John: Talk a little bit about the great fraternity that you’re in of sustainability experts at wonderful and important brands. You know, I get to interview wonderful folks like you from all different sectors around the world. Do you share a lot of best practices with each other when it comes to these kinds of really tough and longstanding issues such as sustainable packaging?

Lindsay: We have to. There’s, I think to solve some of the biggest challenges, which to be honest, climate change, all the sustainability, all the things we’re talking about is one of the biggest challenges I think that is happening in the world right now. And to solve some of those big challenges, we need to involve all the big players because we need big solutions. And so the reality is that we need to be talking to one another, sharing this information, because while we’re the ones investing in this, the opportunity for us to scale is not just for Kind, it’s for everyone. So one of the tenets of Kind’s sustainability strategy is to really be transparent about the work we’re doing and the testing we’re doing and sharing that with the broader industry. So we’re inspiring others and giving them the resources they need to make the best decisions for them and for the planet.

John: You mentioned Kind’s broader sustainability strategy. Talk a little bit about, you know, what are the pillars of that, you know, broader sustainability strategy and how does the packaging fit in and then the other divisions as well?

Lindsay: Yeah, one of the reasons, one of the many reasons I love working for Kind is because sustainability is really at the heart of everything that we’re doing at Kind. It’s not just a side project or a side team. It’s really, baked in, pun intended, to how we think about the future of snacking. And we have some big goals, like you mentioned. One of our biggest packaging goal is that by 2030, we hope that 100% of our packaging is designed for recyclability. It’s a big goal. And it’s just one of our pillars, as you say, of sustainability more broadly at Kind. We like to think of it as a three-pillared approach. So the first is how we sustainably source our ingredients, which is like the Kind Almond Acres initiative like I touched on. The second is how are we designing our packaging for recyclability, which includes the paper wrapper test. And the third and one of the most important ones is how are we reducing our emissions to ladder up to Mars’s really ambitious net zero by 2050 goals. And I think the paper wrapper is a great example of how we do sustainability at Kind. It’s really about a test and learn approach, which I love. I think that’s so. interesting because we are looking to pilot things in the real world, see what works, adapt as we go, and then when we move to scale, we’re scaling with really science-backed, research-driven approaches that we know work in the real world because we’ve tested it in the real world. So it’s not just like a flashy leap. It’s like what you’re seeing behind the scenes is a really thoughtful step that really can help push the industry forward and bring consumers along with us.

John: Talk a little bit about the challenges though, which I’m fascinated by and how you gauge success because there’s a few things I want you to touch on. One is, as we discussed at the top of the recording, you’re doing business not only here in this wonderful great country of ours, the United States, but in 35 countries. How does that high wire act factor into running tests like this, important tests like this, when you test it here, then how do know that in Italy or in England or in other places that you sell your wonderful products, that it would work there as well? Or how is that factored in the international flavor of your brand?

Lindsay: Yeah, so I’ll touch on your first point first. So how are we really testing and measuring the success of paper wrapper pilot? So we’re testing for a couple of different things and I’m not only technical, which is obviously a huge part of this. So can this we run paper the same way we run plastic does is, is there like a higher puncture rate for paper because it’s more sensitive? Is the barrier properties of the paper that we’re using? Does that help maintain and make more efficient the safety protocols for Kind? So we’re testing a lot of things and that includes shelf life for paper wrapper test. Really important, the shelf life for paper, our paper wrapper bars is a little bit lower than our plastic wrap bars. So of course, that’s a consideration for us. But outside of the technical testing piece of this, we’re really looking at our consumer and consumer driven insights to see if this is the right way forward for kind. So one of the things we’re doing is we’re testing sales velocity. We want to see if the paper wrap bar can sell the same or more potentially for in comparison to our plastic wrap bars at Whole Foods. We’re also testing to see if the product tastes the same, if it behaves the same. Can a consumer throw it in their bag and throw it in their gym bag and have it be at the bottom of their bag without having to worry that there might be rips and tears? Can they use it in the same way? And then is it upholding their expectations of kind as a brand? So we’re looking at all three of those really important pieces to determine the best way forward when it comes to scaling up paper wrapper.

John: Lindsay, does the retailer then, do you look to the retailer for feedback and the consumer? How does that work?

Lindsay: Yeah, we are we are looking for Whole Foods feedback as well. And we intend to share everything we know with Whole Foods. They’ve been an incredible partner. And it’s been a really great partnership because they’re a value driven brand as well. So they’re not only looking at this pilot for us and for the brands that they buy, but also their owned brands to see if this is something that they might be able to do as well. So we’re sharing with Whole Foods and then we’re also going to be sharing with the broader industry.

John: And then you look to also the consumers for their feedback, like, yeah, I put it in my gym bag, and the bar just is, I love eating it no matter what packaging it is in the paper. They’re fine with the paper?

Lindsay: Yes. And one of the things, we actually did a paper wrapper test in 2023. It was a very small test. It was just on our Kindsnacks.com e-commerce site. And we actually found that 93% of people that tried the paper wrap bar said that they would buy it again, which is so 93% purchase intent, which is one of the highest we’ve seen for Kind innovations. So we were really proud of that. And one of the unexpected benefits we saw was actually the ease of use for paper wrapper. I don’t know if you’ve ever had like a Kind bar where it’s been really hard to open or like a plastic packaging where it’s been really hard to open. Paper eliminates that challenge. So we actually saw some unexpected benefits to paper and that really gave us the confidence to move forward to do this larger test.

John: That’s awesome. And so you’re truly battle testing it because like you said, you’re not just looking for just soft feedback. You really want to know if they throw it in their gym bag and it gets a little bit, goes through the rinse cycle with all their other stuff in there. Are they still happy with the? with the product, even though it has nothing to do with the product itself, how you manufactured it or how you package it, it’s real battle testing.

Lindsay: That’s such a key part for us, because if our consumers can’t use it or if they’re not understanding that it’s recyclable, it becomes a moot point because we need the consumers to understand that it can be recycled so they recycle it, so it reaches the intended end of life. And then we also need them to actually use it for it to hold up in their lives. Because if it doesn’t, then we might be solving one problem but creating another. So that’s a really important part of this for us.

John: So then segue over to my other question about cultural nuances and differences on doing business around the world and in so many very diverse countries, 35 other countries, how do you make that transition or how do you connect those dots?

Lindsay: Yeah, and it’s a great question because the reality is every country has different legislation right now around packaging. Every country is approaching it similarly towards the same end goal, but slightly differently. There’re sometimes increased regulations in Europe compared to the US or the US. There’s a different end of life for Europe than the US. Like I said, in a lot of places in Europe, they have a lot more advanced recycling than us. So they’re able to actually recycle some of the products that are technically recyclable but aren’t widely available in the US. So you do have to approach packaging with a really nuanced lens, looking at across all of those different regions for what’s best. Right now we’re piloting paper in North America because we think that’s what makes sense as a best next step for North America. However, we’re really open to sharing these results from North America more broadly across other business units. We actually just shared the project and the results that we were looking for in the KPIs with our EMEA team. So we are sharing results and if that’s something that they want to do based on the regulations and the brand there, then that’s something that they can. But it’s really all about, yeah, connecting the dots, understanding the nuance, and then sharing that information so each business unit and each region can make decisions that’s best for that region.

John: Which goes to the other question. You mentioned the pillars of sustainability, the broader sustainability goals at Kind. Obviously, like you said, sourcing, then you go to packaging and then you go to the broader net zero goals that want to support, of course, Mars’s net zero goals of 2050 and Kind is one of the great portfolio brands with inside of Mars. Talk a little bit about what you just mentioned, though. I think that’s an ongoing challenge for all sustainability experts and leaders like you, Lindsay, the How do I say this the right way? The unfortunate patchwork quilt that you’re forced to deal with, with regards to the diversity of legislations around the world, when is there going to be some, how do I say this? The right rationalization or harmonization so this way you can work towards your goals and Kind and Mars’s greater goals with greater ease? Isn’t it making it a little now tough for all your sustainability leaders and experts with the diversity of all these legislations around the world?

Lindsay: It is challenging, but I’m really proud of how Mars especially, and I know a lot of big CPGs also tackle this. We really rely on experts in the regions to understand from legal and regulatory experts to sustainability experts to people who are at Mars corporate, for example, who are actually gathering all this information and making sure that we’re reporting on things in the right way for each jurisdiction and each region and it’s laddering up to our broader goals. So while it might seem, I think, a little bit disparate outside, I think one of the things that leading companies have had to reckon with is how do we take all these disparate sources of information and disparate goals and have them ladder in a way that makes sense to our broader enterprise level goals. And I think Mars has done a really great job to make sure that we can all contribute to their enterprise level goals while retaining independence to make sure that what we’re doing is best for the region that we’re operating in. So I think that CPGs have had to reckon with this for a long time. And I think they’re doing a really good job at moving the work forward among ambiguity.

John: How many people are in your sustainability division at Kind Snacks?

Lindsay: At Kind Snacks, so right now, I’m actually the only person working full time on sustainability at Kind, but it’s such a team effort. And I actually am really proud of that because that signals to me is that sustainability is part of everybody’s job at Kind. So I’m working with I’m working with the packaging team. I’m working with the marketing team. I’m working with the sales team. I’m working with our legal and regulatory team. And so while I might be connecting the dots, it’s really everybody’s job to working towards a more sustainable future. So I’m the only one at Kind, but we also feed into Mars’s sustainability team, which is a very large sustainability team. So it’s one of the many ways I think that we’re feeding into that larger enterprise goals. But of course, I work with brilliant sustainability subject matter experts who are sitting on the Mars side. I’m collecting the great work that everybody’s doing across Kind.

John: If you’ve just joined us today, we’ve got Lindsay Philpott with us. She’s a senior sustainability communications manager at Kind Snacks to find Lindsay and all of her wonderful colleagues at Kind that are making the world a better place. Please go to www.kindsnacks.com. Lindsay, let’s go to now back to Whole Foods and talk about you have a Printpack pilot that you’re working on with them there. Talk a little bit about that Printpack pilot.

Lindsay: Yes. So as I mentioned, so we’re testing a paper wrapper at 160 Whole Foods market stores in the US across three different regions. And like we were talking about earlier, John, I think partnerships are really everything when it comes to sustainability. So we worked really closely with Printpack to find a how to recycle approved paper wrapper that still holds our really high standards for safety and quality. And we are really appreciative to also be partnering with Whole Foods on this because if we aren’t able to bring these collaborations to life, if we aren’t able to make these innovations real, we can’t really scale up in a meaningful way. So we’re not just testing these innovations in a lab or paper wrapper in a lab. We’re testing them in real life. And we need those partnerships to make that real so we can test across the full journey of paper wrapper from production to transportation to store shelves to consumer’s pockets and then ultimately into the recycling bin. So I’m really proud to be partnering with companies like Printpack and Whole Foods Market on this test.

John: But that seems to be a common theme. Kind likes to collaborate. And obviously now you’ve talked about two different collaborations you’ve got going on with Whole Foods. So they’re very open to working with their brands and collaborations. That’s really great to hear.

Lindsay: It is. And honestly, it makes me a proud Whole Foods Market customer, honestly, because we have seen that their openness and willing to take a risk on because that’s what it is. It is it is a risk on these pilots. I mean, we actually removed our bestselling, which is dark chocolate nuts and sea salt skew at Whole Foods and these 160 stores to replace that with paper wrapper, which, of course, is it’s the same product. It’s still on our best. selling dark chocolate nuts and sea salt bar, but it is a risk for the business to sell a new product and to replace a best selling product with a new one in a different wrapper. So we’re so appreciative that Whole Foods Market was so open to this collaboration and partnership.

John: And let’s be honest, Lindsay, all collaborations on a beta basis and on a test pilot basis absorb and take more resources than just typical business as usual. So the fact that you’re doing of course, taking more resources. Well, that makes sense. You’re the brand that wants this feedback and wants to know, do you have something that could scale? But for Whole Foods to do that, that’s really great because it shows their willingness to, and they’re really investing in your brand when they’re taking extra time and resources to run these pilot collaborations.

Lindsay: Yeah, and investing in the potential future of packaging. I mean, this is like you’re on the forefront of like a transition to more recycle-ready packaging. And for Whole Foods to really take a step up and partner with Kind on this, it says a lot, I think.

John: Talk a little bit about, like give us a little bit of the wow factor. You know, you talked about paper might be the way, but there’s so many things happening now with regards to technologies and new opportunities in packaging. It might not be the way in the future. What other type of technologies are? Are there biodegradable technologies that are coming out potentially or other type of things that could even supplant plastic and paper?

Lindsay: Yeah, this is what’s so exciting. I think about the packaging space is that we’re still early on this journey, not only Kind, but I think the entire industry to see what opportunities are and avenues are available outside of plastic. So like you mentioned, bio based or compostable, potentially an option. I think there’s also other different paper types. So we tested one specific paper type. There are other paper types like you might have seen actually, MadeGood recently tested a paper-based wrapper, and they used a different paper type that we did. We are doing a paper-based wrapper and they’re using a metallized paper wrapper. So the coating is different, although it can still be curbside recyclable. So we’re really seeing different ways that paper packaging can come to life, I think in the bar category, which makes it a really exciting early space for this type of innovation. I’m really proud that Kind is one of the leaders in testing some of these packaging types.

John: Lindsay, when you wake up in the morning, I’m fascinated by the three pillars that you get to work on, packaging, sourcing, and then the greater net zero goals, obviously. Which are the most challenging for you? Like what are the most challenging for you and your brand to achieve? Like which one do you feel like, okay, we got this or which one takes the most time out of your day-to-day, week-to-week work life?

Lindsay: That’s such an interesting question, honestly. I think the way that Kind has really built out these pillars gives me a really strong foundation. So I would say the last couple of months though, of course I’ve been thinking, a little bit over time on packaging. And I do think that packaging really presents an interesting challenge for a lot of brands and a lot of companies just because the recycling infrastructure in the US specifically itself poses a challenge. I mean, I always say this, what I can recycle a pizza box that’s a little bit more stained and like has pizza and cheese on it in New York City. And if I go to where my parents live in New Jersey, if I go to Pennsylvania, if I go to different regions in like the middle of the middle America, it’s so different what can be recycled there versus what can be recycled in New York City, which has of course, a lot of advanced infrastructure. So I think as we’re looking at these ways to get to recycle ready by 2030, we need to understand the US infrastructure and the challenges that it poses and see what could be scaled more immediately versus what our potential long-term solutions that we can work together with the infrastructure in America that could be like if the infrastructure in America eventually moves to a place where they do accept the flexible plastic films, maybe that and that can be recycled. That might be a way that we go in the future. So I think there’s a lot of just unknowns in the packing space right now. And we can only do what we think is the best next step forward for our brand and for the planet, but the space could change really quickly. Should infrastructure change or US policy change or federal policy.

John: Talk a little bit about sourcing. mentioned, obviously, I got a huge kick out of you talking about being a native New Jersey girl who now works in Manhattan, who comes to Fresno, which by the way, I don’t interview a lot of people that that’s their trajectory but you’re doing it for all the great reasons in terms of regenerative sourcing, ethical sourcing, responsible sourcing of your great and wonderful products that go into your delicious brand products. Talk a little bit about other types of materials besides almonds. How is that journey going in terms of sourcing sustainable fruits and other nuts that you need to source?

Lindsay: Yeah, and we work really closely, like I said, although I’m technically the only person who’s working 100% on sustainability at Kind, we work really closely with our procurement team to make sure that we are making good decisions and responsible business decisions when it comes to the sourcing of our ingredients, whether that be from a code of conduct, ethical supplier perspective to a sustainability perspective. So while we really are focusing a lot on almonds right now, because they’re one of our main ingredients. We are looking at other ingredients like cocoa, for example. So we also source our cocoa from Rainforest Alliance. Our cocoa is Rainforest Alliance certified. And so, we want to make sure that some of those top ingredients that we’re using are sourced with a really mindful approach. So those are just really two examples. But we do look at the full stream of our ingredients down to make sure that we are sourcing them in a responsible and ethical way.

John: Lindsay, you’re a unique human being in that you’re a sustainability leader at such a young age. You’re not just a subject matter expert in one of some of the most important sustainability issues of our time, sustainable packaging, but also sustainable sourcing and also net zero. Talk a little bit about, since you’re a digital native, as opposed to someone who’s generationally not like me. How much are you leveraging AI in your professional life right now?

Lindsay: That’s a really good question. And, you know, I have really mixed feelings about this. I think it’s challenging to reckon with as a sustainability professional the advancements of AI, because we know firsthand the amount of energy it takes to respond to some of the prompting. And so I think that approaching it in a really mindful, I’ve been trying to approach it in a really mindful way, but it’s a two-way street because on one hand, I want to be mindful. want to make sure that I’m using AI responsibly that I’m partnering with businesses who are also using AI responsibly. At the same time, I do think AI is moving so quickly that to not leverage AI, seems like it could be a miss, especially to solve some of these really big complex challenges. So it’s really an interesting, I feel like there’s a fork in the road right now. And it’s either we’re not using AI to leverage it or we are. And maybe we can try to use it in a way that’s responsible work with tech companies that are trying to make sure that their energy usage is more efficient, their water usage is more efficient. So I think that it is really a complex and nuanced question that I honestly feel really torn, I really feel torn about it’s a really challenging issue. But I think that if that’s the future that we’re going to be living in, have to similar to climate change. Like there’s a point where we can mitigate, but there’s also a point that we can adapt. And I think eventually we’ll have to be in a future that we are adapting to the increasing amount of technology available to us and what it can do for us. So I think that it’s a really interesting point in history and I’m very curious to see where it goes and how different generations after me might answer that question too.

John: How about you though, do you still fight that same battle in your personal life? Because obviously you have big and complex issues you’re working with on a kind, which are unbelievably important for so many reasons, because you get to affect the health and wellness of all of us. When you move the needle, it benefits the world really in your professional life, in your personal life though, there’s other challenges that we all face, whether it’s we want to understand more about medical conditions or just interesting other things that we’re thinking about or working on that where your mind will take you. How about in your personal life? Do you still have to do that same balancing act in terms of energy uses versus the net benefit of you having the most and best information at your fingertips. How do you balance that? Because that’s to me a fascinating, you know, conundrum that a Catch-22 that we’re all faced with.

Lindsay: I know. And I try to balance it. Honestly, in my personal life as someone who has, when I went to college, as I said, I was part of, I double majored in part of that was English. And so, I think of the also the creativity and like, what does imagination look like in the age of AI? How are we using our imagination differently with the tools of AI versus pre-AI? What does that mean for creativity and creative professions who are often seeing their work replicated by AI? I mean, it’s a really interesting ethical challenge. But I try to use AI responsibly. It is hard, but I actually try to not use AI in my personal life only because I want to give my brain….

John: It’s interesting.

Lindsay: It’s more so there’s the sustainability aspects, there’s the ethical aspects, but I also feel like I need to give my brain a challenge. Like I want to try to tackle it. And then if I need, if I need support, if I need something like maybe I’ll see if AI is helpful in that way, or if I need a brainstorming idea, maybe I will use AI, but I want to use my own brain. before I go to AI brain.

John: That’s a great point. Yeah, it’s so funny you said that. When my wife and I get stuck on something that we’re trying to remember, we make a competition. Don’t look at Google or AI. Let’s try to use our own brains to figure this out. And it’s actually a fun and good exercise, I think, for all of us to engage in.

Lindsay: Yeah, I feel like it just, we need to be using our brains. I think in the future, we’ll understand better how to balance AI with like, the learning that we need to do as humans to even be able to leverage AI I think you need to be able to understand how to use it and how to think. Critical thinking skills I think are going to be really important in the future, but we need to balance that with like what AI can do. So I try to hold those skills and use those skills and use that muscle in my brain so I can use AI in a smart way in the future.

John: I think that’s so important. I think that’s brilliant, Lindsay, what you just said, think is the money is really where the money is in that people, your generation come to me all the time and they say, how do I make sure that I don’t get replaced by AI? And it comes down to exactly what you just said. Well, if you have great connectivity skills and have great interpersonal skills and have the ability to critically think, you won’t be replaced by because. Because by the way, AI is not going to come on and do a podcast with me, nor get on a plane and come to Fresno and drive up to Madera and go walk the fields where your sustainably sourced almonds are being grown. AI is not going to be able to do that and touch the land and meet the farmers that are growing your almonds. So you’ve put together a skillset that then will virtually make you, you know, you won’t be able to. be replaced by AI, which I think is exactly where your generation has to be thinking.

Lindsay: I think so too. And I think as a comms professional specifically, I can see AI now. I know when people are using AI and I think it will be it will be imperative for us to be able to write ourselves and have a unique voice and a unique perspective outside of AI.

John: Well, I get something that’s been written by AI, obviously, like you said. I find it really disingenuous at this point. But when someone writes me a personal email or text message or a personal handwritten note, to me, that means the world as opposed to some AI generated, you know, it’s almost feel spammy nowadays already. It almost feels spammy.

Lindsay: And I think I think especially for sustainability professionals in general, I think we there’s a lot of things that we need to do that require us to make the point driven home that sustainability affects all of us and like it’s a generational problem that will affect us personally. And I think we need to build a certain level of empathy and understanding to be able to really hit people and understand and have people understand the real gravity of the situation. And I think that humans are the only ones that can do that and appeal to that empathetic nature, AI can’t do that. And I think that’s such a big part of sustainability comms is appealing to human empathy. And that’s just something that AI can’t do.

John: Lindsay, I want to talk about a subject. First of all, before we go there, what are you most excited about? You’ve there now today is probably very close about the exact day of your three-year anniversary at Kind Snacks. What are you the most excited about for the next, let’s just say 12 months ahead of you. What is the most exciting part of what you’re working on?

Lindsay: I think there’s a lot of exciting things. Today we’re talking about packaging, but like I said, we also are talking about the Kind Almond Acres Initiative. And I said earlier, it’s a three-year pilot and we’re almost at year three. So we have a lot of things cooking behind the scenes about what’s next for us in terms of how we’re scaling towards our regenerative almond goal. So I’m really excited to be able to bring that to life hopefully next year. And then also in terms of packaging, like I mentioned also, we’re still early in the packaging journey, but I think about how Kind is really committed to transparency in both sustainable sourcing and in packaging. So I’m really excited to have the learnings from this first pilot. The pilot will end in November and we’re hoping to have some of the learnings in the latter half of this year. So I’m excited to see how we’re leveraging those learnings and how we can share those learnings with the broader industry to build really truly circular solutions.

John: Lindsay, what I’m finding with professionals, experts like you that are leaders in sustainability at all sorts of brands, big and small, is the last six months I’ve seen a fascinating transition. We’ve moved away from what have become highly charged, unnecessarily politicized terminologies. I’m not even going to mention them because it’s not worth mentioning right now, but those who are listening and watching this show know what they are. But to a more broader sense of connectivity between sustainability, the move to the circular economy, and materiality. Talk a little bit about those three terms and how that is at the core of what you’re doing because sustainability obviously in your case totally connects back to the mission of the kind brand and the kind name for that matter. Talk a little bit about that whole, the generational shift in the growth of sustainability, the shift from the linear to circular economy and the need and the growth of connecting all those to materiality to your core brand and mission.

Lindsay: Yeah. And I think this is a really interesting question for Kind specifically, because I do think that it ties so closely with our brand identity. I mean, our name is Kind. So how I view communications is how am I communicating in a way that’s genuine to the work that’s being done but also is understood and can be understood and comprehended and educating our consumers. Because a lot of the terms that you just said, I think are really accurate depictions of the work we’re doing, right? We’re finding its interconnectedness and biodiversity and the interconnectedness of nature and the materiality of all of the sourcing that we’re doing, how it’s material to our footprint and how it’s material to our supply chain and how are we increasing and making that connectivity and materiality, how are we leveraging those to make sure that we are designing our products for a circular future and not a linear future, as you said. So I think one of the things that we try to do is we try to really educate our consumers on what do I mean when I say circular economy? What do I mean when I say the infrastructure? When I talk about the infrastructure in the US, what do I mean by that? Because I think one of the challenges of communicating sustainability is that sustainability is a challenging topic because it’s so broad. Like you could talk about so many different areas of sustainability. It’s really hard for the average consumer to understand the nuances of every little piece of thing that we’re communicating and we’re trying to do. So I think education has to be at the core of any like consumer driven communications that we’re doing. So making sure that the consumer understands like this is recyclable. How are we communicating that this is recyclable? How we’re communicating the challenges to that. So I think those terms, like not using some of the politicized terms, not using even some of the complex terms in sustainability, there’s a lot of different ways you can communicate the work that we’re doing. So communicating it in simple terms that the consumer understands that helps drive towards a more ultimately circular future is how like we approach sustainability comms.

John: And for sustainability, as you and I know, It’s a journey. There’s no finish line. And so, Lindsay, I just want to put this out there. You’re very young. You’re very brilliant. And you’re doing some very important work. So I want you to know that you’re always welcome back on this show to share this very important journey that you’re on with your colleagues at Kind and at Mars with regards to Kind Snacks. I just want to also point to something out to our audience and our listeners and our viewers. I don’t purposefully, at Impact, we don’t take advertising dollars on purpose because we don’t want to have to have our content dictated. And we have now thousands of shows that we’ve taped and aired over the years with great success. And some of the best and greatest brands on the planet have participated because they know that we are not dancing to anybody’s tune here. We’re just trying to get our listeners and viewers the best information. This is exactly why we have great people like Lindsay Philpott on the show. Kind really cares about the environment. Whole Foods really cares about the environment and the future of the planet and the future of all of us. Not only us that are living today, but our children, our future grandchildren. So the goal is to have these great stories shared so then we could support Kind, we could support Whole Foods and other great brands that continually care about what’s going on. and where we’re going directionally. And I also have to mention something. Lindsay, you represent the best of the best. As you know, and I want to share with our listeners and our audience, we had many technical issues during the taping and recording of this show. And Lindsay is not only the most patient human being I’ve ever hosted on this show, but she’s actually super kind. So you represent the best of the best, generationally speaking. You not only are an expert communicator and a sustainability expert, but you also oh are really just a nice and kind person. And I want to say thank you because I have great hope in the future of where this planet’s going because my generation is putting it in your hands and in your hands, I know great things are going to happen. For our listeners and viewers to find, Lindsay and all our wonderful colleagues and all the important and impactful their work, their doing in sustainability, please go to www.KindSnacks.com. Lindsay, it’s been an honor and a genuine pleasure to have you on the Impact Show today. Not only for the generosity of your time, your patience also, as I just mentioned, but more importantly, because you on a daily basis with your colleagues make the world a better place.

Lindsay: Thank you so much, John. It’s been such an honor to be here and to chat with you today. I really appreciate it. And you made me blush. That was so nice. Thank you so much.

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