It’s Easy To Indulge Better with Max Elder

November 9, 2021

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Max Elder is the co-founder and CEO of Nowadays, a venture-backed foodtech startup making plant-based meats with only a few simple ingredients and an unparalleled nutritional profile.

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John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. This is a very exciting edition of Impact. We’ve got Max Elder with us. He’s the co-founder and CEO of Nowadays. Welcome to the Impact podcast, Max.

Max Elder: Thank you John. I’m so excited to be here.

John: Hey, listen. Before we get talking about Nowadays, you’ve got a great product, which I’m a fan of and I’ve eaten your great product. Talk a little bit about yesterday. I want you to talk about where you grew up, how you even got here, talk about your journey leading up to founding this great new plant-based company.

Max: Okay, we’ll go back.

John: Okay.

Max: So, I grew up in Massachusetts, a coastal town in Massachusetts. My first job was working on- I was a lobsterman. Unfortunately, brutal brutal work. If you’ve ever worked on a boat.

John: I heard it’s brutal.

Max: It’s horrible. I regret it, but it was a good, good work for a young 15-16 year-olds. So, I grew up on the coast. I grew up with environmentalist parents actually. My father is a big environmentalist. We were one of the first families to buy Prius when they were available.

John: Really?

Max: And there was a strong ethos of social justice. My mother was a judge and my father, of course, was focused on sustainability at every turn. So, that led me to try to figure out how to have a positive impact in the world.

I went to college, I studied Philosophy, actually. I have a bachelor’s degree in Ethics.

John: Wow!

Max: And, spent a year studying at Oxford, trying to figure out how to live a good life, how to be a good person. And when I was there, I got wrapped up with some animal ethicists. And actually, when I left Oxford was invited to become a fellow at a think tank called the Oxford Centre for Animal Ethics. And for the past, I guess, at this point 9 or 10 years, I’ve done academic work on sustainability, animal welfare, and food systems. And, that was how I started to think critically about our relationship with to non-human animals. Fast forward a few years and I decided that I wanted to have impact. And when you look at the landscape of our relationship to animals, the way that we farm them is by far, the biggest challenge in the world. So, thought I would try to dedicate my life towards alternative proteins, and actually trying to create a future world alternative proteins are no longer considered alternatives.

So, I spent 5 years in New York City doing research and strategy in grant money. And a philanthropy foundation, moved out to San Francisco and spent 4 years doing strategy and innovation consulting across the global food value chain at a sort of hybrid think tank slash creative consultancy called The Institute for the Future. And then, last year, jumped ship and met my co-founder Dominic Grabinski and decided to start Nowadays. So, in many ways, I feel like Nowadays has been just 10 years in the making of my professional career.

I actually started in 2015 trying to build a cultured meat company back when there were only, I guess 2 culture meat companies incorporate in the world. I was really interested in seafood and aquaculture, very concerned about it. And decided I didn’t have enough experience to start a company back then; wanted to get more experience across the global food value chain. So, instead of starting that company, moved up to the Bay Area and started consulting for food companies. And that’s how I realized that none of these companies know what they’re doing that. That it’s not about knowing the answers to any of these questions, it’s about knowing what kinds of questions to ask in the first place. And, that’s, you know, if we want to have impact at scale and want to solve some of these problems across, labor, environment, health, that we need radical innovation. And the startup ecosystem is just perfect for that.

John: You know, first of all, it’s so interesting, what you’re saying. I think it’s important for all parents to hear what you just said about your parents, those seeds of greatness and of creating change-makers, like you, really are set from a very young age. They must be extraordinarily proud of what you’re doing right now.

Max: I hope so. Yeah, they definitely, I caused them some trouble when I was younger, for sure. So, hopefully…

John: What kids don’t do? Don’t be so hard on yourself.

Max: But yes, they instilled everything in me. And for better or for worse. When I look at the food system and a lot of the problems around health and access are not due to anyone’s merit. Your health outcomes and the social determinants of your health, in the United States, are totally dependent on the ZIP code that you’re born into. So it’s also good motivation for me and for Nowadays to focus on how we scale healthy, humane, and sustainable foods to communities who really need it. And, it’s really informed how we think about brand-building.

John: It’s interesting.

Max: Honestly, not just my parents, but also our ZIP codes. Because it’s interesting, there’s a lot of shame and blame in the modern food system and there’s a lot of shame and blame involved in health and eating junk food. And, we think that it takes herculean efforts in the United States to eat well and that instead of shaming and blaming people for their dietary patterns, we need to create healthy options with good value propositions that do jobs that need to be done for people and give people a better choice.

John: Well, if that’s so well said, and I think you’re so right. And I think democratizing healthy options is really where it’s at right now because we are at an inflection point. I believe that healthy options like you’ve created with Nowadays are more imperative than ever before because we’ve created such an environmental burden, in terms of what’s coming at us environmentally speaking. Look at the air problems we’re having in California. Just with all the fires and stuff. These are unprecedented times for a living and I know that’s a little bit of a cliche, but I promise you at 58, I can tell you it’s really not. We are at an inflection point right now.

Max: Yes, and it’s one that I think a lot of people are feeling acutely. And you know, this inflection point, I live in San Francisco. And last year, before I started Nowadays, I was sitting at home. My phone vibrates for a warning that there was a curfew at nights, because we weren’t allowed to go outside. And, you know, the state was on fire. There was a helicopter flying over my apartment because of riots for racial justice down the street. And, there’s a pandemic and I sat down for dinner and I just couldn’t help but think the food that’s on our plates is so deeply interwoven with all of the problems around me right now that I need to do something. And I don’t need to do something in a year; I don’t need to do something in 5 years. I need to do something yesterday. So, I spend every waking moment trying to solve these problems because we don’t have much time left, I think to wait.

John: Max, I so agree with you. So you meet your partner and how did you come up with what you were going to tackle, these delicious chicken nuggets at Nowadays and for our listeners and our viewers and our readers, please go to I’m on the website. It’s really one of the nicest websites I’ve ever seen, I’ve tried your product. You were kind enough, your people at your company, your colleagues were kind enough to send me these products. I want to eat 3 pieces, I ended up eating six because I loved it so much. And so, why did you choose to tackle chicken first? And how did you come up with the name and the whole concept?

Max: Yes. Okay. Well, the first day, John is, you can have 6, you can have 12, you can have 24. The beauty of Nowadays is that we make very clean, very simple plant-based meats. A few simple familiar ingredients and an unparalleled nutritional profile. And that’s really the ethos, that guides everything we do at the company. So, Nowadays was started originally because we realized that when we look across the landscape of alternative proteins. In the US, they account for less than 2% of the overall meat market. And to me, that’s a rounding error. That’s nothing. I mean, despite one of the biggest IPOs in the past, like, you know, decade. Despite some of these companies already saying, one and a half billion dollars of private equity. And despite a lot of media coverage, and a lot of conversation, and just like the Poltergeist, we are a rounding error compared to the meat industry. We can’t afford to continue to be less than 2% for much longer.

John: Right.

Max: So we looked at that problem and my co-founder, Dominic, and I tried to figure out, what is the barrier to really reaching mass adoption adoption for alternative proteins. Why can’t plant-based meats be 10% of the market or follow the alternative dairy market, which is now upwards of 15% of the overall dairy market, why aren’t plant-based meats there yet? And we came up with 2 reason: one, is that plant-based meat companies today don’t have a value proposition that speaks to a growing flexitarian audience. What I mean by that is when you actually look at the number of vegans and vegetarians in the United States, that number has stayed steady forever. It is not significantly increasing. What is increasing is the growing number of flexitarians across the country who are occasionally swapping out meat product with an alternative. Those people, when you ask them, what motivates them their primary motivator is health. We are in a public health crisis. We are in a global pandemic. And Americans are trying to eat a little bit better occasionally. But when you look at the landscape of these products, they are certainly more sustainable. They are certainly more humane. In terms of health, it’s kind of a wash, they’re better marginally, but it’s hard to communicate. And when you see these big brands saying things like, we have 40% less saturated fat, you know, I’m not convinced that that’s enough. So we realized we need to make plant-based meat products that are as good for you as they are for the planet. The second barrier, we’re convinced is price. And we’re convinced that there’s too much complexity in novel forms of protein production and in complex manufacturing. And so, we started out with the very innovative approach to product development and manufacturing, to be able to really compete with chicken, which is the most consumed protein in the world, the most consumed protein in the United States. And, by the way, the cheapest.

John: Wow.

Max: So albeit, artificially cheap, the industry’s been amazing at externalizing costs. But nevertheless, we need to compete in this commodity market. So, we’ve figured out a way to make plant-based meat cheap and make plant-based meat healthy. And if you can make it cheap and healthy and delicious, then we think you can reach mass market adoption very quickly.

John: Got it. And then how did you come up with the great name Nowadays, lovely name?

Max: A lot of late-night whiteboarding, to be honest.

John: Why?

Max: We looked at Wilton a bunch of the brand names used across the space and I love them all. They’re very masculine. They’re very product-focused. There’s a lot of, you know, we’re doing the impossible, we’re going beyond where, you know, starting a rebellion with rebellious foods. Those are all wonderful. But we wanted to create a brand that was much more accessible and approachable and non-judgmental. Nowadays has a sort of evergreen presentism to it. In 10 years, Nowadays will be about the present and the here and now. But it also acknowledges and have, in a non-judgmental and somewhat folksy way like that there’s something different about today. Nowadays, we don’t eat as many animals as we used to. Nowadays, we think about the connection between our plates and the planet, you know. So it’s a very, it’s an acknowledgement of something new and different. It’s kind of folksy and very accessible and it’s inclusive. We are trying to make a brand that people can really identify with. So Nowadays came up as a way that we were thinking about taking a sort of modern twist on classic favorites, that Gainey’s breaded fried chicken products, like nuggets and tenders and patties and making them healthy, humane, and sustainable. And doing so, in a way that people feel good about. And I think I think we’ve landed on something that works.

John: That’s s so wonderful. So you just so you whiteboard the name. You have this wonderful product, you and your partner have created. Where are you now? What did you have to do- all ventures take capital.

Max: I have capital. Yeah.

John: All dreams need the fuel to really help the fire keep burning and grow. How did that work for you? Where did you decide to raise capital from? And how is that part of your journey been?

Max: Yeah. Well, all ventures need capital. They also need an immense amount of luck. And we have benefited greatly from it. And very, very in a very talented team. So we have been very lucky in our ability to raise capital from wonderful folks, primarily funds from around the world who are focused on alternative proteins or health and wellness better-for-you brands. And the real answer is that, we found a few funds early on who knew us, as individuals. And who saw an early idea of vision, a prototype. And were willing to place a bet on our ability to execute. And that took a long time. So actually the first investor who wrote a check into Nowadays is VegInvest Trust. It’s run, the managing director is a woman, Amy Trakinski. And I’ve known Amy probably for the past, gosh,8 or 9 years. And Amy and I met many, many moons ago at a conference actually, in San Francisco. We’re both were living in New York, but we met at a cultured meat conference in San Francisco. And we hit it off. We started talking. And we kept in touch. And that was when I was working at a philanthropy foundation in New York City. It was early, early, before Nowadays was even a hope, a dream, anything at all. And we kept in touch over the years. And eventually, I called Amy and said, I’m going to start a plant-based meat company and I need your support and I know that you know me and I know you’ve watched me over the past, you know, 6 or 7 years do all these interesting stuff across the food system. And I know that you know that I can make this something that’s very successful with impact. And she said, yes, I know and I’m ready to write the first check. And once you get that first check in, it’s a whole different ball game.

John: Yeah, and you know, you bring up two great points. First of all, the power of relationships and building trust and nurturing those relationships over years. That’s such a powerful statement. And it’s so true. And so many people forget that very critical element to becoming a successful entrepreneur.

Max: It’s everything. It’s everything. I don’t know how Nowadays would have been able to do anything that we’ve done over the past year, year and a half if not for all of our relationships that we fostered for much longer than the company’s existence. And to be honest, John, we’ve made a lot of mistakes. Some big, big, bad mistakes, including mistakes with people like Amy. And it takes the long-term trust and relationships to make sure that those mistakes don’t cause you a lot of trouble. So, when you have that trust and when people know you personally, it’s a different kind of conversation; people are much more forgiving. And you need that when you’re trying to build because the one thing that I know is that, I don’t know what we’re doing. And I know we are going to make mistakes over and over and over again. The good news is we learn from them every time. The bad news is they’re, mistakes, nevertheless. So you need people to appreciate and respect you and know that you’ll learn from them and you won’t make them again and know that your vision and your heart are both in the right place.

John: And I agree with you and mistakes are just lessons in the journey. Just long as they’re not fatal mistakes.

Max: That’s right.

John: If you avoid fatal mistakes as an entrepreneur, they’re just good lessons and you just keep rolling. And if you’re transparent about it, you’re also very transparent about the importance of luck. And there’s no venture that I’ve been involved with that has been successful, that hasn’t leaned on luck. And a lot of entrepreneurs don’t admit that though. And that’s really not a good way to be because luck has so much to do with a lot of good things that happen. It’s good to say that upfront.

Max: Absolutely. Luck and privilege, John, I mean, we’re very privileged to have the relationships that we have. I know, we’ve worked hard for them. But when you look at the landscape of venture capital, and when you look at who’s getting investments, it’s very inequitable. So, we know that, we see it. And, and it’s for every Nowadays, there are plenty of great ideas for every one of me. They’re amazing entrepreneurs who don’t have the same opportunities. So if anything it makes us feel like we have more of a responsibility to do an amazing job and to take the luck and privilege that we have and turn it into something impactful.

John: So, if you’ve just joined us, we got Max Elders with us today. Max is the CEO and co-founder of Nowadays. You can find Max and his partner and his colleagues and their great products at Max, where are you in the journey now? I know, I was lucky enough because your colleagues were kind enough to send me this wonderful package that arrived at my house about a week ago. Where can our listeners and viewers and readers find your products and where do you expect to go in the months ahead here?

Max: So everyone can buy our products direct-to-consumer. So you can go to and buy our nuggets. If you’re a first-time buyer, we have a 25% discount, which is very large. And we ship 2 days direct to your door.

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John: Wow!

Max: So, online, we are in restaurants across the country and are scaling that. We are very excited about our restaurant partnerships. And we are in conversations with some large quick service restaurants, to some fast food chains. We love food service because of the size of the market. We’re really focused on having impact at scale and that requires us to find channels with massive volume. So we’re very excited and hopeful that we’ll be included on some very big menus in the near term. And then ultimately we’ll be omni-channel. We need to be omni-channel. So we are submitting for category reviews for retailers right now. So, soon will be everywhere. Right now, we love being online.

John: It’s great.

Max: To me, the most amazing thing, John, about shipping direct to consumer is for an emerging brand, we get to build relationships directly with our customers. So I know who buys our product. I can email them. Once we end this conversation, I can go online and I can call someone who bought Nowadays nuggets this morning and learn about them. Learn about why they bought maybe for a second time or a third time or a fourth time. Ask them how their kids like the product and that kind of feedback is just so critical for an emerging brand. So we love it. But we also love our restaurant partners and we were very excited for retail. So everywhere.

John: Max, yeah. And because chicken is the number one protein on the planet, I assume that once you democratize your Nowadays’ nuggets throughout North America, the international opportunities are all there for the taking for you.

Max: Absolutely. And you know, John, we’re not just a nugget company. We launched with nuggets because nuggets are a really fun category.

John: Right, they are.

Max: Americans love nuggets. Kids love nuggets. And we’re really focused on, we want to break into the mainstream family meal rotation. But we’re really a plant-based meat company and we’re focused primarily on chicken first. So we’ve got 3 other chicken skus in the pipeline, that we’re going to release very shortly. One before the end of the year, the second in Q1 of 2022, and the third probably also in Q1 of 2022. So there’s some other fun chicken products. But one of the things that’s quite important about Nowadays is that we’re focused on this segment of the meat market, where we think we can have impact, which is the, for lack of a better word, the junk food category. So, in many ways, these breaded and fried frozen meat products, nuggets, tenders, patties, popcorn chicken.

John: Right.

Max: They have pretty poor chicken, actually in the products. It’s very low-quality meat. The nutritional profiles are horrendous. The ingredient lists are terrible. And what we’re doing is targeting those categories and we’re reformulating those products with just a few simple ingredients and an unparalleled nutritional profile so that we can lead with the value proposition. That these do not only taste good, but they make you feel good. And that you can be proud to put them on your table for dinner or to feed them to your kids. And I think, you know, when we talk to a lot of people who eat animal-based nuggets, everyone knows that they’re not good for you. No one is proud to feed their kids nuggets at dinner. It’s a convenience food.

John: Right.

Max: It’s a cheap way. And so, if we can help people, we can enable and power and embolden people to feel better about what they’re putting in their bodies but still have the delight of an indulgent category like nuggets. Then we think we can win.

John: I so agree with you and I want to go into that. Well, I gotta tell you, I felt I feel like a kid again when I eat nuggets. I mean really. And it’s fun because it’s finger food. I could dip it in what I want and it’s easy to prepare and quick to prepare because we’re all short on time now. But I loved on your package and I know this was just sent to me as a special thing. But on the side of it, was your ingredients. So while I was eating the nuggets, I was focused on the ingredients and I was blown away that you only have seven ingredients and you’re gluten-free, soy-free, GMO-free. Talk about why only 7 ingredients, and why that’s better for us, not only from an environmental perspective, but just better from us as humans and consumption perspective as well?

Max: Now, we love our ingredients stack. It’s actually one of the things we’re most proud of. The taste is number one. We’re very, very proud of how the product taste. But it’s more impressive after you taste the product, to look and say, well, what is this made of? This tastes too good to be true, it’s seven ingredients. One of which is water, by the way, which is the number one ingredient in most alternative meats. It’s the number one ingredient in most meats.

John: Right.

Max: But after that, we use things like our protein comes from really from organic yellow pea protein. It’s a particular peas farm in the midwest. We’re really focused on making an ingredient list that people can read and pronounce and think that these are familiar ingredients. So nothing foreign and wild, nothing crazy. No binder stabilizers. No fillers. No preservatives. None of that junk. And it’s primarily because when you look across the landscape of the category, these products have 30, 40 ingredients. There’s added sugars. I mean, there’s sodium bombs. And you’re talking 500, 600 milligrams of sodium per serving. I’m having a heart attack when I read that. And so clean and simple ingredient list translates to a really unparalleled nutritional profile for us. And that, for us at Nowadays, we believe that that really unlocks an ability to speak to a really broad segment of consumers and of flexitarians. So, we’re hyper-focus on the ingredient list.

The other kind of elegant solution that a short, but ingredient lists and enables for us, is simplicity of manufacturing. And one of the things that I love is simplicity. It turns out that simplicity is very complex. And, especially when we think about the future of food and the future even of the alternative protein world. Things are getting really complex and I spend my life in this space. I study this stuff and there are new branded proteins that are coming online from companies. There are new novel forms of bio-fermentation that are creating new kinds of products coming online. People are doing wild genetic engineering of different plants to express animal-based proteins, like casein, to create dairy products. There’s just a massive, massive amount of innovation that translates to a lot of complexity. There are blended products on the market today, that are partially plant proteins and partially animal proteins. There’s just like there’s a lot. And I think, increasingly that’s going to be hard for consumers to navigate. And we’re trying to make eating well simple and that’s very hard to do. So a simplicity of the ingredient list, I think translates to a simplicity of understanding for consumers about what’s in this product.

The thing that I’m most concerned about is some of these alternative protein products, which I love, and I consume very much feel like fake food to me. They’re cookie cutter shapes. And, and when I talk to consumers, they always say, “Oh, that’s the fake meat right. That’s the fake X.”

John: Right.

Max: And I don’t want anyone to think that these products are fake and they’re not. They’re very real. They’re in fact, if people really understood how some of these meat products are made, we’d know how artificial they are.

John: Right.

Max: But nevertheless, I think like, the overall ethos for us is simplicity and a really easy understanding when you pick up a box in a moment when you need to make a decision, “Is this something I want to try?” We want the answer to be, yes. And we want to lower all the barriers to getting to, “Yes.” And plant-based meats need to lower the barriers for people to try.

John: You’re talking about manufacturing, that’s fascinating, Max. As the pull for your product increases, and as you democratize your great product, Nowadays, and for our listeners and viewers out there that want to find Max’s product, it’s You could order it directly. It comes to you in 2 days. And soon to be found in more restaurants, and eventually retail around North America. But when you one day are going to be selling in Shanghai, in Singapore, and Paris, is contract manufacturing the kind of simplistic and delicious foods that you’re creating, plant-based foods, is that a complicated process to contract manufacturer them as you spread around the United States and around the world? Or is it actually easier than the industrial food state that we live in right now?

Max: That’s a really, really good question. So we are building Nowadays with a strategy to scale very quickly and very cheaply. And the way to do that is to leverage existing manufacturing lines. We, especially for the meat industry, these lines are cheap and ubiquitous, they’re everywhere. And we need to plug into them. So, the really radical innovation that Nowadays, is our approach to manufacturing. We are a meat manufacturer, first, and foremost, ramped up in a CPG brand. So, we have a patent that protects our technology, which is our ability to create whole cuts of plant-based chicken using pea protein. So, we take peas, we figure out a way to make whole cuts of meat. And those pieces of meat function, taste; they are meat. They are just made from plants.

John: Right.

Max: We can then ship those pieces of meat around the world, to all kinds of contract manufacturers.

John: Perfect.

Max: And the finishing line is battering, breading, frying, freezing. The finishing line, John, exists in your office today, I mean, it’s everywhere.

John: Right.

Max: And so, our vision is, in order to scale manufacturing very cheaply and in order to become a global brand very quickly, we need to be able to develop a product that plugs into those lines. Plugs into them very easily. Most alternative meat companies make the finished product, all in one process. They don’t make the meat first and then finish it into a value-added product like a nugget or a tender. We make the meat, and so that enables this really interesting business model of using contract manufacturers and not just specialized contract manufacturers, of course. Most food companies, when they scale unless they’re totally vertically integrated. Do you really want to scale big? You need to leverage contract manufacturers. The problem is that can get very complicated, it can get very expensive, and some of your technology, and your intellectual property can be wrapped up in that manufacturing process. So, we split the production process into our IP is in the manufacturing, and then finishing, those pieces of meats, anyone can do. You can do it in your kitchen.

John: Right. That’s so fancy. So you’re protecting the IP along the way, and also simplifying the process.

Max: Yep, bingo. Simplicity is everything. And simplicity, by the way, John, it saves a lot of money.

John: It saves a lot of money. Is part of your vision and dream, Max, after you’ve conquered the chicken category, will you be producing with your proprietary technology other meats, as well?

Max: Yes. Yes.

John: Good.

Max: We’re very excited about other meats. Chicken, of course, we love because we think that there’s been plenty of innovation done on beef right now.

John: Right.

Max: We think that there still is a lot of work that needs to be done on chicken. And quite frankly, I think that the environmental conversations around broiler chickens are nascent and people are overlooking the environmental impacts. And I think that they’re horrible. And so we’re really focused on overcoming some of those.

But we’re very excited about other animals and other animal-based products because our vision is that, we make food that nourishes, both people in the planet without harming animals, and there’s massive amounts of innovation that needs to be done across the board for that vision to be realized.

John: Max before I let you go today, you have any final thoughts for our young entrepreneurs out there that want to be the next Max Elder, that want to follow in your footsteps and make the world a better place and also make it a more tasty place, as well?

Max: Well, I’d say don’t be the next Max out of there because Max out there made a lot of mistakes and fumbles. I’m sure you’ll be better than the next Max. Maybe the only piece of advice that I have is that, you need to be radically obsessed with a problem that you’re trying to solve. Because I don’t know about you John, but entrepreneurialism is not necessarily my forte. This job is hard. It’s really, really brutal and involves a lot of mistakes, a lot of failure. You’re always doing too much and you’re never doing enough. And so, the type of grit that you need to wake up every day and stay up late every night is unparalleled. And so, you need to find something that you can’t live without, that you feel like, “Gosh, if I can do one thing in life, this is what I need to do.” And not what I want to do, what I need to do. Because it’s incredibly, incredibly challenging.

The other side of that coin though is, it’s the most rewarding thing in the world to wake up every day, and realize that everything that you’re doing, every waking moment, is for a mission that you deeply believe in. It’s not about the money. You’ll probably never make any money. It’s not about the- it’s only about the vision and the mission. And if you are unwavering in your conviction, then you’ll be really successful.

John: I love it. And that’s why you’re great, Max, because you’re relentless, and the relentless will prevail. They will. For our listeners and viewers out there again, I’ve eaten this product. I say it’s great. I promise you, you’re going to enjoy it. It’s Nowadays. You could go to and order it for yourself directly. Max offered a 25% off first time purchase. And I promise you, you’ll enjoy it.

Max Elder, you’re always welcome back on the Impact podcast to share your journey. We want to have you back on and we’re just so grateful. I wish you continued success, continued good health, and thank you for making an impact and making the world a better place.

Max: Thanks, John. I really appreciate it.

John: This edition of the impact podcast is brought to you by Trajectory Energy Partners. Trajectory Energy Partners brings together landowners, electricity users, and communities, to develop solar energy projects with strong local support. For more information on how Trajectory is leaving the solar revolution, please visit