Simon Mulcahy is CEO of CO2, and President, Sustainability at TIME Inc. Prior to CO2, Simon was at Salesforce for 14 years in a number of executive roles including Chief Marketing Officer, Chief Innovation Officer, and General Manager of Financial Services. Simon spent 5 years as Head of Technology Industries at the World Economic Forum. Earlier in his career, Mulcahy was a strategy consultant, and before that, a British Army Officer. Mulcahy is a Global Leadership Fellow of the World Economic Forum. He has an MBA from Columbia University, London Business School and INSEAD.
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John: Welcome to another edition of The Impact podcast. I’m John Shegerian, and I’m so honored to have with us today, Simon Mulcahy. He’s the CEO of co2.com and the president of Sustainability of Time. Welcome Simon to the Impact Podcast.
Simon Mulcahy: Thanks very much, John, delighted to be here.
John: First of all, it’s just unbelievable the two very important hats that you wear. We’re going to go into both of them in a little bit. But before we get going, Simon, I want to say thank you for your time today and also can you share with our listeners a little bit about your background, where you grew up, where you got educated, and how did you even get to these two very important positions to start with?
Simon: Well, first of all, John, thank you so much for having me on this podcast. I love your work and I love this podcast so very excited to be here. My background, as you can probably tell, my accent is not American. I’m British. But although 14 years in the US. I grew up in England, but I officially grew up in the Middle East in Iran until the revolution and then we moved to the United Arab Emirates, boarding school in England. Then I ended up basically doing university and then joining the Army. I was an Army officer for five years in Bosnia, Kosovo and in other places, Northern Ireland.
Simon: Then after that I went into consulting. Hated it. My wife and I, or girlfriend at the time, did a heads or tails flip for where we wanted to move. Canada or Switzerland. Switzerland won. Moved there, got a job at the World Economic Forum, which is incredible. Did that for a number of years, which opened up all types of opportunity. Then Marc Benioff, the CEO, founder of Salesforce, recruited me in out of the forum into Salesforce. 14 years ago, Salesforce was a 2500 person company. It’s now 75,000.
Simon: Then last year said, “How about you leave Salesforce and work for him directly building a new business called co2.” As of January this year, I’ve been virtually an entrepreneur building this new business, but also being the president of Time because Marc also owns Time Magazine.
John: First of all, on the heads or tails flip, who had Switzerland and who had Canada? That’s what I want to know.
Simon: Well, we both decided.
Simon: We were like, okay, well, it was just a discussion of what heads or tails would be.
John: Oh, it wasn’t you chose one and your wife chose the other? Okay.
Simon: We were both like, okay, let’s see what fate decides.
John: Okay. I love it. By the way, I think fate was good to you. Switzerland sounds really good. I think that sounds wonderful, by the way. That’s what…
Simon: Life is half chance. I really believe that.
John: It is half chance. I think that’s so important. That’s such a profound comment in that it’s half chance and you sort of really have to learn. Really the people that I found, I’m almost 60 years old and I found the people who get through this journey the best are able to deal with the chance that actually then comes up, the half chance that they’re dealt.
Simon: Totally agree.
John: Nothing’s for sure.
John: Nothing’s for sure.
John: Let’s go in first, before we get into this very important topic, and as your life as an entrepreneur at co2.com and for our listeners and viewers to find co2, go to www.co2, the number two, .com. We’re going to get into that in a second. But as an employee and as a fiduciary and the leader, the president of Sustainability of Time, sounds like an unbelievably big position as well. What is your role there? What are you doing in that role before we get into the co2 and at your life as an entrepreneur at launching and scaling co2.com?
Simon: Well, Time is an incredible organization with an amazing history of guiding people on their journey as the world evolves. I just joined that team to help, really bolster the focus on sustainability. You’re going to see some really cool things happen to Time and around the construct of climate over time. But obviously first things first is what’s Time’s climate footprint and what does time do to be an ever more sustainable business itself? So we’ve been focusing very much on that. Then also using the resources and capabilities of time to help build this this new business, this new division co2.com.
John: Got it.
Simon: That’s really where I’ve spent my time.
John: Got it. We’re going to go into that right now. But before we go there, is it a classic chief sustainability officer position where you think, you have a team underneath you, you’re not only creating an algorithm of markers along the way and in terms of emissions and net zero goals and things of that such, and then creating an impact report at the end of the year, so you guys can track that. Is that a Time, that hat that you’re wearing?
Simon: Yeah, that’s one of the hats I’m wearing.
John: Okay, so how did that evolve then? Where and at what point did you and Marc have that, “Ah ha,” moment to now take your fascinating and important background, really fascinating World Economic Forum and everything else you’ve done, and then make you into an entrepreneur launching and leading co2.com? Where was that discussion and how did that actually happen?
Simon: Well, back at Salesforce, it’s fair to say, if you take Salesforce, this is a business that it not just provides technology, but helps companies understand how to bring technology into your business. You don’t just bring technology in and sprinkle it over your business. You’ve got to look at the core of what you’re doing and re-imagine what your business should be fueled by technology. You’ve got to, you’ve almost got to go back to some fundamental basics. As companies digitize, that’s what you have to do. You don’t just take old analog processes and make them digital. You have to re-imagine them to be digital. We’ve been helping companies like that for a long time. Along comes Brexit, sorry, Brexit, along comes COVID, and suddenly all of these businesses are finding all of their employees are at home. Everybody’s going, “Oh my God, we need to be a lot more digital.” Salesforce is really helping these companies understand how to respond to the realities of COVID and serve their employees while they’re at home and become evermore digital, very quickly. As we’re going on that journey, COVID turns into a long experience. As we are serving these companies, we start to realize it’s not just being better at being digital that these companies have to be. They also have to reinvent themselves to be more relevant to the world that’s evolving around us as well. We said it was like, wow, companies have got to not only reinvent themselves to be digital, but also reinvent themselves to be more sustainable. Suddenly that becomes a double helix. That is now on the front of these CEO’s minds is, “I’ve got to reinvent my business, otherwise I am no longer relevant to my customers and employees and investors, and being digital’s not enough, I’ve also got to be sustainable.” That was a really big, “Ah ha,” moment. In Salesforce we started making lots of change and I was all over that. Then it just became really clear that this was really difficult for not just the biggest businesses that Salesforce was serving, but all of these other businesses that didn’t have those capabilities. How could we serve that market? How do we make it really easy and how do we make it really trustworthy? How do we really inject trust into this? That was a trigger to say, okay, we should do this outside of Salesforce as well.
John: Got it. Were you drafted? We’ll talk army talk here. Were you drafted?
Simon: Drafted. Yes.
John: Were you drafted or did you raise your hand or was it a little bit of both?
Simon: It was a little bit of both.
John: Okay, I got you. Explain, now, I’m on the website. Again for our listeners and viewers, www.co2, the number two, .com, I’m on the website. Beautiful website, lots of great information here. Explain, first of all, what’s this differentiator? Was there a paradigm for this before or is this really white space that you and Marc and other leaders saw at Salesforce at a time that you were going to be filling? Or was there some sort of paradigm that you said, “Ah ha, that’s that, we could do that better and that’s what we need to do?” What was the original vision and mission here with co2.com in terms of the space that you’re filling exactly?
Simon: Well, let me start with the problem.
Simon: You’ve got the climate crisis.
Simon: But you’ve also got a nature crisis and a justice crisis. Everyone can just look out the window and see the damage that we’ve done to our climate, what is causing the impact on human lives, the impact on nature. Interestingly, if you’re a 40 year old and your child says to you this evening, “What’s the biggest impact that your generation has had on the planet?” The only real answer should be, “Well, since I was born, we’ve wiped out over half of all the biodiversity on our planet and we’re on track to wipe out the other half of it by the end of the century.” That’s really the contribution. We’ve got to fix this. You can understand why gen Z and millennials are angry. These older generations are really stealing from the younger generations and leaving the world worse than when they found it. We’ve got to turn that around. That’s the climate, the nature, and the climate justice crises. Then on top of that, we’ve got really what I describe as a trust crisis. What any company does and what any company says about what it’s doing, that combination has grown to be a major determinant of how they’re trusted. Now I think, and it’s really becoming clear that companies and their leaders are being judged on the gap between what they’re saying they’re doing, and what they’re actually doing.
Simon: That for me is the problem. We need companies to do and we need them to talk about it. Because if you’re not doing either, then you’re not in any way engaged in the climate problem and it’s like you must be deaf and…
John: By the way, Simon, let’s throw in there the gap between what politicians say they’re going to do and what they’re actually doing as well.
Simon: Yeah, it’s a really handy framework. You’re right.
Simon: There’s a lot of people who are doing nothing and saying a lot.
John: Correct. That trust gap Exactly. It’s this thing everywhere across leadership in the world right now called political, but of course, as you said on the business, which is the area where you’re tackling, which I love. Because I think business transforms politics nowadays. We’re past Camelot, we’re past that era where politics really had a great role in society. In many ways, business really is the transcending force now that exists. I love that you’re attacking it on the business level first. I love that.
Simon: Crazy. If you do that, then there are a whole number of really clear benefits. Let’s face it, society gives business the license to operate. If you are justifiably waving a flag saying, “Hey, I’m a business for the planet,” customers will reward you, better talent will come to you, investment will be easier. We know that there are real benefits. The problem is, I think, is that when it comes to the actual doing, it’s super difficult for most businesses to get it right. That’s not because they’re dumb or anything, it’s most don’t have high powered PhDs, big scientific teams running around. Instead you’ve got really well meaning CEOs, CFOs, CMOs, trying to figure out, trying to make head or tail of what is basically a really confusing topic. One that’s also changing all the time. What we saw is that, very quickly people find themselves buying offsets. That is where we hit a major problem. Because offsets for most people means buying cheap carbon credits. That seems super convenient but the problem is that according to Berkeley, and according to a number of really carefully reviewed scientific studies, about 80% of the carbon credits in the carbon market are junk.
Simon: We have a major quality issue. I’m not hyping it, this is just scientific fact. Buying a $10 carbon credit is the equivalent of driving down a road, throwing tree seeds out of a window and expecting that to solve the deforestation problem.
Simon: We’ve got that major problem. The second thing is that buying cheap carbon credits leads us into really only supporting a small number of climate solutions, basically cheap nature solutions. Don’t get me wrong, we need these, but our climate is like a system and we need a lot of solutions. If you speak to many of the world’s best climate experts, there are over a 100 different climate solution categories. The carbon markets only sold for a small percent. We need businesses to be serious about solving this, and they need a portfolio of programs. You can’t just solve this by a company just supporting planting trees. It just doesn’t work. That’s the second big problem. Really having a verifiable impact, a real high impact is hard. It means you’ve got to do your homework, you’ve got to understand the science, you’ve got to weed out the good stuff from the bad stuff, which is really difficult and you’ve got to build a portfolio of things that you’re focusing on, an array of things. That was really our inspiration. How do we make it really easy for the average company to do the right thing, especially when they don’t have a big climate team or even frankly have one at all, to find the best projects and make it easy for them to communicate that they’re doing something that’s having a verifiable difference. That was what we were really targeting at fixing.
John: Got it. When you formulated this, what year are we talking about and when did it actually launch?
Simon: We started in January this year, and we launched it about three weeks ago.
Simon: We launched and if you go to co2.com now…
John: Right. I’m on it.
Simon: …it’s good. It’s a little locked down at the moment and we’re opening it up more and more as we roll out functionality over the course of November and December.
John: If you were to say, though, take your competitors in this space, your favorite top three differentiators from your competitors, what, Simon, if you’re in a big pitch meeting today and you’re pitching against whoever your competitors are, and we’re not here to vilify anybody, I’m using them as a proxy, your differentiators, why co2.com should be the go-to space for what you laid out for the mission that you said in terms of creating measurable, manageable, radical transparency to creating a better world for all of us, environmentally speaking? What are your three major differentiators that you’re most proud of and excited about that co2.com offers?
Simon: It’s trust a portfolio approach and the ability to communicate. I can run through each of those.
John: Let’s do it.
Simon: Really great question. The truth is actually, John, we didn’t set out to build something to look at the market and go, we can do a better job than that.
Simon: We didn’t set out to compete. We set out to make the old way, the old cheap way irrelevant.
John: Got it.
Simon: Actually, our competition is basically doing nothing.
Simon: Right all the people out there, we actually want to succeed. There are not enough people focusing on fixing the climate. Every single one of them matters and counts, and we are in the corner supporting all of them so long as their values are right.
Simon: But I’m digressing. What, okay, the differentiator which makes…
Simon: We set out to make it easy for companies to both say and do. The first step was trust. The last year has really been spent running around building relationships with the world’s leading climate scientists, the world’s leading climate experts, the influencers, top people in the world, senior leaders. These people passionately want the carbon markets to be way better. Building that trust platform was the most important thing. That basically meant we had to build effectively a combo. We brought together the best of the world of science, the best of the world of financial asset management, and then the best of the world of marketing. We took the world of science, we built partnerships with all sorts of interesting scientific bodies to really understand what the planet needs. We built an incredible advisory team and really used the latest thinking to shape our approach. That led to this really detailed seven-step vetting process, including scientists and third-party consultants and all types of people on our team. As we went through that, we realized this wasn’t just about solving for carbon and for CO2 which is in our name, we have got to solve for nature, for community and for things that fall even outside of the carbon market. But that science thing was a big first step for us. Then we combined that with the best of the world of asset management and portfolios. If any of you are investors then a portfolio approach is by far the best for allowing you in your investment world to spread risk. You don’t invest in one company, you invest in many. For us that means not just supporting one project, but many. If one fails, which it may do…
Simon: …and if taken care of you know your impact is still strong.
Simon: The other thing that we found is that fund managers really manage that portfolio for performance. They don’t just look at the business on its technical capabilities. They look deeply at the management team. Do these guys have the chops to deliver what they say? They monitor performance on an ongoing basis. Report back in a really rigorous way, dashboards, reports. That was really the world of asset management, world of science, world of asset management. We were like, oh my God, this is amazing. But that wasn’t enough. For the climate action platform to really work, it can’t just be about doing. Because if it fails to generate momentum and others, we needed to make it easy for companies not only to do, but also to talk about it. There’s a really big deal going on now. People are doing good but being green, but going dark at the same time. They’re calling it greenhashing now. What we wanted to do was make people confident to communicate what they’re doing. As we did that, we found, wow, people that don’t even know the words to use. Then we’re giving everybody all of these tools to multidimensional dashboards and summaries, reports, super cool project stories that they can share with their team or their customers. Then the marketing tools for communication and actually marketing and PR tools. That basically became the DNA of what we have.
John: That’s so fascinating. Couple of things, obviously in terms of wind at your back, it seemed like for the last two to three years, the shift from the linear to circular economy was an undeniable unstoppable trend. The shift to ESG institutional investing led by Larry Flint Fink and BlackRock, and so many other great leaders like him, seem to be also a massive and undeniable trend. Just recently, the last 6 to 12 weeks, we’ve seen a little bit of splash back, a little bit of some states in the United States saying, “Oh, we don’t want, we don’t believe in our state pension funds investing in ESG. We don’t think that’s the right way to go,” etc. Is that just a little bit noise and just push back to some very big trends that are really here to stay? Or do you see the feedback and their push back as something to worry about that could trip up the desperate need for products like yours and services like yours as we move forward and really try to tackle this in a meaningful way?
Simon: That’s a great question. I think sometimes the challenge with looking at what’s in the news, it leads you to… Well, you hear a lot of the noise but it’s not necessarily the signal of actually what’s happening.
Simon: That, I think, is a problem. There is some push back against woke capitalism. There is some push back against ESG. But when you look at the realities of what’s happening, the carbon markets, all the data around the carbon markets show that price of carbon continues to rise. That more and more companies, more and more leaders of companies are increasing their focus on sustainability and bringing it into the core of their business. More and more politicians are talking about it, and some of them are reacting, but it’s only because this is a real and present conversation. But we’re seeing the SCC move forward. We’re seeing the London Stock Exchange move forward. We’re seeing the European Union, we’re seeing Australia, all of these governments are legislating and putting more and more pressure on big business to move. Big business is moving. The world of capital is moving. Now it’s going to be squeaky and noisy because you’re asking a lot of people who are making a lot of money in the old world to break from the old world. Of course, they’re not going to go quietly.
Simon: That noise of them not going quietly might be perceived as a push back.
John: Well, it is.
Simon: But there is undeniable direction and if anything, this is going to accelerate. What this means is, are you a business who’s part of the old world, or are you a business part of the new world? If you’re part of the old world, then just be careful because there comes a point where you are no longer relevant to your customers, employees, and investors. Already we’re seeing the cost of capital for businesses who are going slow on this, go up.
John: Got it. For our listeners and viewers who just tuned in, we’ve got Simon Mulcahy with us today. He’s the CEO of co2.com also the president of Sustainability of Time. To find Simon and his colleagues and all the great work they’re doing at co2.com, please go to www.co2, the number two, .com. Simon, okay, the client that you’re looking for, your team is out pitching a client, I want to understand a little bit more specifically, is it BlackRock and Larry Fink and those kind of huge fund managers and Berkshire Hathaway and Warren Buffet that you’re pitching? Are you pitching, and I’m not singling anybody out, but I’ll make this up just for fun. Are you pitching Exxon Mobil and Amazon to be a client? Or are you pitching a company like mine, ERI, which is one of the world’s largest, if not the world’s largest responsible electronic waste recycling company? Who are you looking to pitch to be part of your consortium so that you can move the needle forward? I want to understand that a little bit. I want our listeners to understand that a little bit more.
Simon: Let me tell to start with who I’m not pitching. I’m not pitching to companies who’ve got large teams of PhDs and scientists hanging around who are dedicated to climate. Those companies have got deep pockets and know what good looks like and know what bad looks like, and is up to them to do the right thing and hopefully they are.
John: Got it.
Simon: I’m talking to ERI, I’m talking to 99.9% of all businesses who are not the very few large corporations. I’m talking to every one of those, the leaders of every one of those who’s realizing that they actually want to be part of the future. Their kids on the weekend are saying, “Dad, are you part of the problem or the solution? Is what you are you doing real or greenwashing?” I’m speaking to those people. Those people who work in small or medium sized companies who want to grow, who need to attract this gen Z and millennial population who’s pissed that we’re not doing enough around climate. I’m talking to those people because they want to do the right thing, they just don’t have a big team. We are their team. We are the back office of all of those, ERI, your company, John.
John: Got it.
Simon: You can’t do it well, but that’s okay. We’ve got your back. We are your easy button.
John: That’s right. Like you said, I don’t have PhDs and other great scholars and leaders like BlackRock does, and like Amazon does and other great companies do that can help us score card the effort that we’re putting forward to make the world a better and greener place. I love that. Let’s talk about the voluntary carbon markets. Are you going to intermediate and disrupt the voluntary carbon markets which we talked about earlier or positively be a creative to what they’re already doing, or some combination there of?
Simon: The voluntary carbon market is expected to grow enormously over the next few years according to McKinsey 15 times growth by 2030 and 50 times by 2050.
Simon: Whatever the real numbers, I don’t know what the real numbers are.
Simon: It’s a lot of growth.
Simon: There’s a lot of money that companies are going to the voluntary carbon markets to basically buy credits as part of their climate action plan. Our aim basically is disrupt any move towards that money going towards greenwashing, going towards projects that are not helping the planet. We need real money, proper money, money from companies, these CEOs and these CMOs and CFOs of these companies we were just talking about, we need that money to flow to projects that are really having a verifiable impact solving for carbon removal, for solving for nature, and solving for community and doing that in projects that are solving for that now, but also innovating and funding innovation that will create the right conditions for the future. We know that the fact is the carbon markets are about 20 years old and the carbon markets have been flawed for about 20 years. People have talked about it, but nobody’s fixing it. The only way for us to fix the run on cheap, low, or no-impact carbon offsetting is to make going beyond it better, easier, and more valuable for businesses. We want to fix the carbon markets from the inside, partner with all of the people that want to do that but basically make it so that people don’t run to cheap offsets. Instead, they pay a fair price to projects that have a demonstrable impact. That means that we are and want to be the very best partner to the voluntary carbon market initiative, the VCMI, to the Integrity Council of the Voluntary Carbon Market, the ICVCM, and every other acronym that comes up like the exponential roadmap. Universities are doing amazing things like Potsdam or Oxford University, Cambridge University, ASU, Berkeley, Stanford. We are all over those universities. We’re also working with incredible leaders like, well, Marc Benioff himself, but Feike Sijbesma, Paul Poleman, Christiana Figueres, Hiram Zumo, and the bazillion ecopreneurs, who are out there waking up every morning, leaping out of bed and spending every ounce that they have of their energy on trying to fix our planet. We’re helping all of them.
John: I love it. Simon, you’re still a young man and you’ve had a fascinating career, but now, you’ve left the dark side of the corporate world and you’ve joined the entrepreneurial world that I’ve lived in my whole life. How is it? This is a relatively new venture. You just launched it this January, so this is as brand new, this is your year-old baby, it’s 10 months old now as the CEO of co2.com. Where are you in the journey? Are you happy where you are the first 10 months in? Give us a little bit of a snapshot on your vision, where you’ll be a year from now when we have you back on the show to tell us all the success and to share all the wins you’ll probably bring some of your portfolio companies on to share. Where do you want to be five years from now?
Simon: Actually Marc Benioff asked me this, he keeps asking me this exact question.
John: If he’s asking you, I’m glad I asked as well. I’m asking you a good question then that’s good.
Simon: I felt I left a big SUV with really plush seats, really amazing suspension, air conditioning. I’m now in a go-kart where every tiny little pebble I go over I feel. I’ve got these goggles on, but I can feel the wind in my face. Any small movement of the steering wheel, I can really flip this over quickly so there’s a really interesting difference in, let’s call it the ride.
John: Hey, let me tell you something, you’re explaining entrepreneurship better than I can. That’s beautiful, what you just said. I love it.
Simon: I’m loving it. Oh my God, I’m working with the most incredible, passionate, gifted people that I’ve had the privilege ever to work with that I’ve been able to recruit into the CO2 team. I’m working with amazing professionals at Time. Every single person really cares about the planet, really cares about doing the right thing and I cannot honestly think of a better place to be a more meaningful problem to solve that means that when I turn around to my kids and say, let me tell you what I’m doing, they are not like, “Seriously dad.” It’s actually a passionate use of my time. I’m loving it from that human perspective, selfishly. In a year’s time when we will be massively bigger, this is not a normal startup.
Simon: This is a startup with incredible backing…
Simon: …enormous funding and Marc Benioff’s interest in growing this really far. We have to have an impact as quickly as possible. We’ve got some of the best leaders in the world who are supporting us. We are going to be a widely trusted partner to all of those climate leaders, to companies on their way to being climate leaders themselves. We are building an incredible team of passionate change agents. We’re going to be operating all over the world. We are a distributed team where we don’t have an office. But we know that we’re going to be big in the US, we’re going to be big in Europe, and big in Asia and very quickly. We are going to be working very closely with top experts in the world to build these climate portfolios. In five years time, oh my God, in five years’ time, we’re going to be two years away from 2030.
Simon: That is a big line in the ground.
Simon: I really hope that by that time we’ve made a really big difference.
John: It’s fun to just use as benchmarks, when you joined Salesforce and where Salesforce is today, 2500 people when you joined them, 75,000 today. How many people now at co2.com do you have as part of your consortium that’s working with you to move the needle to make a difference?
Simon: We’re a team of just under 20 now. We will be doubling that very quickly. But that’s small when you think of the scientific advisors that we have…
Simon: …who are effectively a part of our team.
Simon: When you think of the incredible very senior CEOs and world leaders that we have who are our independent advisors. Then you’ve got all of the people who we are working with at universities and climate institutions. The number grows enormously, that’s well over a hundred people who are spending material time with CO2, like world-class people. Then on top of that, you’ve got the full power of Time Media as well. This is a startup, but it’s not a startup.
John: That’s right. Well, all kidding aside, Simon, really, I just applaud everything you’re doing. I love what you’re doing. This is the reason we created this show years ago to highlight great people like you with this vision backed by amazing people like Marc Benioff. I know you’re going to change the world. I really would like to invite you back on a year from now and bring some of your star pupils, your great example of what you’re doing. That way we could have a group discussion while you get to highlight some of the huge wins you’ve had in that first year and a half or so because I think you’re just set up for massive success to change the world. For our listeners and viewers to find Simon and his great colleagues at co2.com, please go to www.co, number two, .com. Simon Mulcahy, you are making an impact. You are making the world a better place. You are the reason I do this show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Simon: Thank you very much, John.
John: This episode of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Closed Loop Partners. Closed Loop Partners is a leading circular economy investor in the United States with an extensive network of Fortune 500 corporate investors, family offices, institutional investors, industry experts, and impact partners. Closed Loop’s platform spans the arc of capital, from venture capital to private equity, bridging gaps and fostering synergies to scale the circular economy. To fined Closed Loop partners, please go to www.closedlooppartners.com.
John: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by the Marketing Masters. The Marketing Masters is a boutique marketing agency offering website development and digital marketing services to small and medium businesses across America. For more information on how they can help you grow your business online, please visit themarketingmasters.com.