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John: Welcome to another edition of The Impact podcast. I’m John Shegerian, and I’m so honored to have you with us today. Craig Coulter. He’s the global advanced manufacturing and mobility and sustainability leader at the iconic and amazing brand Ernst and Young, EY, they call him sEY now. I grew up calling him Ernst and Young, and you can find ey@ey.com. Welcome Craig to the Impact Show.

Craig Coulter: John, thanks for having me. Really appreciate the time.

John: I appreciate you coming on. You represent EY and you guys do great work around the world in sustainability. But before we get into all the important and relevant work you’re doing on sustainability at EY, I want you to share with our listeners and our viewers a little bit about the Craig Coulter story. Where’d you grow up and where did this journey begin, and how’d you even end up at EY?

Craig: Especially when you throw on sustainability, it’s a journey as always. Maybe I’ll just start, coming out of graduate school, it was based out of DC, international developments, that was the first career. A lot of sustainability folks have multiple careers. so, I was bound and determined to go overseas, ended up at that time, in the late 90s and early 2000s, I went to Eastern Europe. So, spent 10 years in Budapest working for USAID and just had a tremendous learning experience and time there. Being there at that time was something we’ll never see again but through that whole process was always environmental and social state was near and dear to the heart, and there was a lot going on in the space, and we would always be talking about where is this going.  What’s happening? And my wife and I, we decided that foreign service career was not what we wanted. So we said, okay, where do we go? And I’ve always been talking to a friend that we were watching at that time, both of us in Budapest watching the trends in the US and where it’s going. We started to do research and looked and said, carbon markets, carbon offsets, this is really interesting. There’s something here. Maybe we can do something and have an impact. So, we moved back, we started Carbon Fund, which is a nonprofit and basically ran that for several years and this was the early 2000s. We started anticipating legislation. So, this is coming. I left, I joined an Environmental engineering firm and we were training auditors. We were running around planning. Did that for several years and of course, it didn’t happen, we’re right up and down with these waves.

So that was up and down but during that time I made a lot of contacts and a recruiter reached out to me from Underwriters Laboratories and in UL if people are not familiar every electronic device that you have has a safety certification that says certified by UL. So they were starting an environmental group. I was number 10, I believe. And they came to me and said, we have a very interesting proposition. We make standards, we generate standards, we want to do environmental standards, and we’d like to see if you could do a corporate sustainability standard for us. So it was very intriguing and so I took the opportunity and started to work. I’m sure you know GreenBiz and Joel Makower, so I started to collaborate with Joel on how we would develop this and we did that for 3 years or so, it was a wonderful experience, but as you know, I think we were too early. We were just out there and all the standards started to come out and now we have fatigue around standards and where things are at. But again, going through that one of the key things that we were looking at was, we can’t provide assurance or audit against this. We need others to do that if we’re going to own this standard. So, I started talking to a number of the big 4, PWC, Deloitte, Ernst and Young. And so over that time, again, got recruited into Ernst and Young, they were just really starting to build the climate change and sustainability practice, that was about 12 years ago and so since then I’ve been with the practice and was very fortunate about four years ago to take this global role which is really focused on manufacturing. Most of my work has been in that space. So now that’s full-time in that global role.

John: That’s Fascinating. So, Craig, help me out here. So, I’m 60 years old. When I was growing up, Ernst and Young were one of them, still one of the greatest accounting firms on the planet, and still is and even in 2008 when I was lucky enough to win the EY Entrepreneur of the West Coast of the Year award from EY was very prestigious, still is a very prestigious award for any entrepreneur to be associated with EY. But all I understood was about accounting. So, you say when you came in, they were just starting to build out the sustainability practice, and they created a huge sustainability platform across their big accounting platform. And so now you are part of that sustainability practice. Is that sort of how it is?

Craig: Yeah and it continues to evolve. If you take a step back, EY has 400,000 people globally, So, massive and you look at the main core business, start with what you know and are familiar with, so it’s the assurance and the audit. Auditing somebody, you’re out west, so audit Google and Apple and Amazon, so all of that. But then in addition, we have all of our tax and people that do tax and certainly consulting and strategy are the other big components to it. So 400,000 people. And so when you put that sustainability lens on it, I’m really happy to say since 12 years ago when I started it, it’s hard to say that sustainability is just a single practice within EY because almost by definition where we need to go it has to be a part of everything. We have to have people that know sustainability in regards to assurance. You have to know about Supply chain, about strategy and that’s our goal, obviously. It’s got to be a part of everything that we do.

John: I understand. Part of the EY ecosystem, sustainability, is just one of the practices you put on your big and iconic platforms. So, people, your clients that are unbelievable clients, like you mentioned, Google and Apple can avail themselves of your expertise.

Craig: Absolutely.

John: So, let’s talk about your expertise. So, in the sustainability practice, you focus mostly on, obviously your title is Global Advanced Manufacturing Mobility. Explain what that means in terms of, parse out what your role is and what your main focus is.

Craig: So, our group, the way you think in terms of global roles is in industry. We have 8 industry markets and so advanced manufacturing mobility is one of those. And really that global role is, I would say to bring the best of the best, to bring the capabilities across 400,000 people, bring that and, and focus, and then connect that to all of our clients. So, we’re really always trying to be a step ahead in our global practice, understanding what’s coming, where we need to go, building out those capabilities, and then turning over to everyone that’s practicing throughout the areas and in the regions. So, a perfect example of that, is I always joke I’m always advertising as the innovation hub, it is the Nottingham Spirk Innovation Hub and that’s what’s behind me. And we launched that about 2 years ago in 2021.

John: Craig, where is that?

Craig: So, that’s based in Cleveland. It’s got a nice connection to your comments. So, the genesis of it is from 2017 John Nottingham and John Spirk won the Entrepreneur of the Year award in 2017 and so they basically, it’s a 50-year-old design firm, that very much focus on focus, innovation, product creation, product development, prototyping, and then launching new businesses. And so, they were a part of our program, and we kept talking to them, and we said, the more and more we talked, we said there’s something really interesting here. How could we possibly, what are the opportunities that we could see to bring product development and capabilities from Nottingham Spirk together with the digital capabilities that EY has? The tax, the assurance, and all the consulting capabilities that we bring and put together into an innovation experience center. So, what you see behind me, it’s actually a historic building in Cleveland. It was built in the 1920s. John Nottingham and John Spirk [Inaudible]that is their office and we built an experience center as a part of it. So, it’s 66,000 square feet of everything you’d want to see in terms of product and manufacturing capabilities, whether digital and fabrication, CNC machines, or everything you could do to quickly and rapidly build new products. And of course, we bring that capability around business models, the financing, and everything else associated with it. So it’s just been you can tell I’m excited. It’s just been a fantastic experience for the last couple of years with that.

John: Who’s the main audience that you’re hoping goes there? Is it high school students, college students, graduate students, a little bit of all or what am I missing there?

Craig: So, really the main focus is the C-suite. We bring in the C-suite from our clients to bring them in to basically walk through opportunities to where you at in your innovation journey, particularly, and again, the focus where I’m at is in manufacturing but really it does extend into manufacturing and consumer energy as well. So, think about that whole innovation journey that many of our clients go through, how we can help them do that, demonstrate products, and help them develop them. Just in the last 2 years, we’ve been doing collaborative product development with our clients. We’ve been launching new businesses with them, helping them find the finance, restructuring, and supply chain work all with a very much heavy digital emphasis. Because I’m sure as we talk more, I would say manufacturing equals digital equals sustainability. It’s all got to go together.

John: Let’s take that train of thought and then move that forward. So, this is the middle of 2023, and of course, you and I know you are, now that I understand your history, Craig, you are a sustainability OG. You’ve been around, you and I have been around doing this about 20-something years. So, we saw fits the starts, the stops, the inconvenient truth come and go and everyone gets excited, a financial crisis hits, and then everyone gets a little bit deflated and things slow down. Talk about where we are right now. Obviously, ESG and the shift from the linear go-and-throw economy to the circular economy are undeniable and unstoppable trends that are here to stay. And we’re going to unpack a little bit of ESG in a little while, but talk a little bit about when it comes specifically to manufacturing, the tools, and epistemologies that got us here to the middle of 2023, and that makes this innovation nation that we are so blessed to live in so great isn’t going to be what gets us going to the next step in the future. So, talk about another great trend that’s intersecting with sustainability, the trends of AI and robotics. Is that something that’s come to manufacturing and something you are starting to now implement and use more with more and more of your clients and more and more of the forward-thinking folks that you get to work with?

Craig: 100%. Absolutely. I mean, you took the words right out of my mouth. If you take a step back, as you said, it’s been a journey but it is here to stay. But I think now what you’re really seeing is many of our clients they’ve made those commitments. They have their sustainability strategy out there. It’s a very nice document. It puts the goals out to everything. But really now we’re at an inflection point, I think, we’re really looking at where do they go from here? What’s really going to allow them to enable these commitments that they’ve made? I wouldn’t be the first one to say that you talk to many companies and clients as that works from that C-suite and starts to go down into the business units and as they’re trying to figure that out right now, and this is where what you mentioned, AI, you’re looking at data, the use of data throughout the whole value chain is really going to separate companies apart that do that well, are really going to drive tremendous sustainability benefits.

You mentioned that digital twins are another really good example of the use of digital twins and whether it’s product modeling, whether it’s figuring out terms of new opportunities with businesses and where they can go whether it’s looking at the supply chain, and digital twins there, or something as simple, it’s not so simple but even the environments that we work in, the use of digital twins can really have a significant impact. I’d say all of the above but the challenge that many of them have is where they go and how they implement that and I will say it’s somewhat reflective of what I described at EY, when I came in, we had a group-focused on sustainability, but as that transition goes, you have to expand, and our clients need to expand as well. The decision-makers are no longer the corporate sustainability officer anymore. It is the head of the business unit who has these metrics, may have KPIs, say, you’ve got to meet this or do this. How do I go about doing that? Well, I’ve also got a P and L that I must address. So, what are the steps that I’m going to need to take to meet those efficiency goals? Or that I’m going to take those next steps and still drive that P and L successfully? So we’re really starting to see getting into the details, getting into the weeds and that’s where that use of digital technology and data that you reference is, that’s where I think we have a huge opportunity, a challenge but it’s a huge opportunity.

John: When examined the right way and when fed with the right information, does the opportunity to implement predictive analytics also help in your planning and forecasting, and implementation of certain types of manufacturing, robotics, and AI technologies?

Craig: Yes. Absolutely. You think about just even a basic service and repair model. So, I have a certain product, and I put that out into the field. Predictive maintenance is going to allow me to take a look at that and schedule and repair much more quickly. And again, with sustainability benefits always keeping that in mind, you’re going to be able to do that with the AI and predict maintenance much more quickly than you would if you did not have that capability. So, when we talk about, for example, the innovation hub in developing new products to me, it would be an exception to not have that product full of sensors, full of communication, IOT of today, that’s really going to drive the development. So, you can build that digital infrastructure behind it and really start to see the benefits of that.

John: You know with regards to the term of the acronym ESG, when you and I started our journey 20-something years ago, ESG was not a term of art that was being used in the business world. It now has become one. But when I talked to sustainability leaders like you across different brands, ESG could be defined as unbelievably narrow at some brands and also could be tremendously wide. Where does it fall with regard to EY in terms of your sustainability practice? And what’s your definitional functional discussion of ESG in and around the clients that you get to service at EY?

Craig: It’s a great question. I mean from my personal vantage point, ESG tends to be more from the financial sector, you know, and driving, especially around the reporting side. I think honestly that the good news is rarely have that discussion anymore in terms of defining what that is. The questions tend to be how do I take what our sustainability program is and drive additional value out of it? So there’s certainly, as you start to work with other decision makers within the organization, you have to have that educational part. And so, we’ll talk about what that connectivity may be for them that will most resonate but there really want to focus on driving value. I think that’s really a big emphasis and trying to do a way of, what we see quite common is it should no longer be a discussion on if I do an ESG project that’s going to cost me versus not doing it, I’m going to drive additional value. They should be one and the same. The discussion should not be bifurcated. It should be about how can we drive ESG and drive value.

John: But many leaders across the nation and the world, because of misrepresentation of some of the things that ESG could mean positively speaking are negatively impacted and predisposed prior to sitting down with you. How do you rewire them and get them over the hump to, as you said, make them understand that ESG truly creates value? Yes, it could be a cost bucket as well upfront, but the value that’s created far exceeds the costs that are being put into it.

Craig: Yeah. It really gets into connecting with them really on what stripes, so looking at their profit and loss. Looking at the value and connecting directly to the benefits they see. Especially for a manufacturer around data and the access to data and digital, I think it makes it easier with manufacturers because we’ve all been on this industry 4.0 journey for quite a while, like 10 years, And so, to me, equating sustainability with digital is a way to overcome that because they all recognize the efficiencies that they will see coming out of digital implementations. Sometimes they’ve certainly been challenged by it but long term they realize the benefit. So equating that especially on the environmental side I think is really key. If you use ESG, if you talk social, to me, that discussion is much more straightforward. If you look at manufacturers for years have been struggling with baby boomers retiring and then getting workers back into manufacturing, it’s quite a challenge.

If you look at the National Association of Manufacturers, if you look at their mission, they’re advocating for manufacturers on the hill but the second thing that they absolutely focus on is recruiting and bringing people into manufacturing and the skills that they need are not the skills of, you know, 20 years ago, you have to have digital capabilities, you have to have technology capabilities. So, bringing that generation in, and we know the generational, we both read all the reports, what do the new generations are thinking of? They want their companies to be responsible. They want their companies to be making those steps. So that’s value. Can we articulate that one particular on a P and L? We’re getting close because if you don’t have people that you can [Inaudible] online, it’s going to suffer.

John: The way I look at it, Craig, you tell me if I’m looking at this wrong. If your company doesn’t look like America, if it looks just one way that’s not going to win anymore. It’s got to look like the diversity that is the beauty of America because that will help with both recruiting and retention and there’s real [Inaudible]

Craig: Absolutely. Data on the environmental side, especially data and digital really resonates. And again, that on the social side, you said it. Well, it’s about reflecting on who they want to represent and who they need to work with moving forward.

John: For our listeners and viewers who just joined us, we’ve got Craig Coulter with us today. He’s the global advanced manufacturing, mobility, and sustainability leader at EY. To find Craig and his colleagues and all the important and relevant and impactful work they’re doing at EY, please go to www.ey.com. Let’s go back to what we were just talking about, Craig, in terms of Sustainability, and creating value, the economy has continued to thrive, but they are still [Inaudible] out there that are being thrown around 10 interest rate rises over the last 18 months. Threats of recession, soft landing, hard landing, nobody knows where it’s going to end up. So, do leaders sit down with you and say, Hey, Craig, I want to do what you’re proposing, but is this the time to really do it because things are slowing down? I laid off some labor, I’m worried about some headwinds. Maybe interest rates continue to rise a little bit before they start dropping again. Is this the time to really do that or do we put that on hold? Or is that the time to double down on sustainability initiatives and dig in because the cost savings and the benefits could way outweigh and help them make it through any troubled storms? What’s your thought process on times like that we live in today?

Craig: So, several layers to that going to sort of peel that back. In general, I think we’re all seeing a bit of a downturn largely driven by indecision. But the macroeconomic indicators as you mentioned, are confusing, labor strong yet mixed markets so how do I process it? But overall, are things slowing down a bit? Unquestionably, yes. No doubt about it but when then you put that sustainability overlay, what I’m encouraged about is I’m seeing a lot of our clients come to us and say, we need to build a business case. Help us build this business case. We have these goals; we have this aspiration but we don’t have the mechanics to make it happen. Come help us do that. Provide that support to make that happen. So that I would say is strengthening and still ongoing. And so, to your point about where they are, you’re starting to see some separation. And I would argue those clients that really are making an earnest effort to not just have a sustainability strategy that’s here, but it is a part of the discussion at the board, that it is part of that, that narrative where they’re exploring, I would stress exploring the options, exploring the opportunities that’s where we’re really seeing the difference. The other thing I’d say is and this goes with that all the potential incentives out there right now with IRA and others are very significant.

So, if you are not exploring that, not looking at that, seeing how you’re going to maybe, perhaps fund large capital investments by leveraging that, that’s going to have very tangible sustainable outcomes. Something you should be looking into right now. The last thing I’d say is that, we can’t get away from the cost, you look at CSRD from a reporting perspective, and whatever comes out of the SEC, those are coming. We know that is coming. So there are going to be costs associated with it, but I would say, you know that’s coming over the next 2 to 3 years. This is why you need to be thinking about it now. This is why you should be exploring those incentives. This is why you need to make sure your sustainability team is plugged into all those digital projects because you’re going to need that data for the reporting, but that’s also going to give you the data to make more informed decisions. Is it a concerning time? Absolutely. But this is an opportunity to take advantage of it as well. And that’s some examples there.

John: You mentioned the IRA, I want to go into that in a little bit but talk about making informed decisions. You said EY is about 400,000 people around the world and you have a global position, obviously, a global advanced manufacturing mobility sustainability leader. How many colleagues like you sit in different countries around the world, and how often are you sharing the information among yourselves? So this way you’re helping to keep your client base sitting here in North America on the cutting edge of what technologies are being developed, not only here in North America, but from around the world that you’re able to then share with them because you have such a diverse and big practice on a global basis.

Craig: Yeah, it’s a great question. And it’s a never-ending constant pursuit. Thousand thousands of people globally that are working front and center with sustainability as their primary focus but I would also stress, this is both personal and professional to me, we want to get to that point where it will be our grandchildren, by which that it becomes business as usual. And that’s something that we’re really trying to drive. So, when you talk about our consulting practice which has procurement and supply chain and IOT and everything, there are people trying to layer in either recruiting them or working now that have a sustainability perspective and can help and add value there. Our strategy folks are doing the same thing. So it really needs to be across the table. And so it’s both an ongoing education process at EY. It’s certainly a massive recruiting process at EY and then as you mentioned, it’s a coordination process and that’s something that I spend a fair amount of time in manufacturing, mobility on Thursday pulling the team together, Europe, and the Asia Pacific, United States, what are our plans? Where are we going to go? What are our best practices? What do we want to do? And how can we drive that more effectively for our clients? So that is just a never-ending pursuit.

John: Never ending. It’s a journey. But by having those Thursday meetings, you’re constantly updating each other. So everybody is in lockstep and aligned on best practices and best opportunities.

Craig: Absolutely.

John: Wonderful. Let’s go back to the IRA, obviously unbelievable federal legislation directly aimed at the decarbonization and maintaining critical minerals and materials here in the United States on a domestic basis aimed at the manufacturing industry. How has that integration been going with regard to how you consult with and advise and lead your clients to any and all IRA opportunities?

Craig: So really if you use an example of say a client, we just had at the innovation hub, so starting with a new business or product idea. Walking them through that process. And that becomes ideally a connected digital product that we pull together and get that lunch. But you cannot have that discussion, especially in terms of capital investment without talking about the incentives and particularly now the incentives that they’re bringing. So, it sounds John[?] somewhat matter of fact, but it has to be front and center right now because [Inaudible] especially in manufacturing, you have huge capital assets and you always have to make hard decisions. Am I going to invest in my existing capital to try to gather more efficiency, and produce more products, or am I going to divert some of that investment in other places for a new product line or a new business? It’s not an easy decision but with the IRA and with the opportunities presented there from an incentive perspective, that certainly can tip the balance. And we really are seeing quite a bit of shift in a lot of engagement on that. So, going well.

John: So Craig, if I’m a new co-client to EY, and now I’m in the manufacturing business, I happen to be in the manufacturing business, I also realize as a leader of this company, that what got us here over 20 years is not going to get us where we need to go the next 20 years. So I sit down with you as a de manufacturer, which is to be just the other side of the coin as a manufacturer. And I say, Craig, help me. You are an expert. You are the expert on this stuff. I’m new to this stuff. What are the 3 top things I should either be thinking about right now or acting about with regard to sustainability and manufacturing, or in our case, de-manufacturing to help us thrive for the next 20 years and keep our leadership role? I come to you for that information, share with our audience a little bit. What would be top of mind three topics that we should be really working on together at our company and at other manufacturers or de manufacturers?

Craig: Well, John, we, we’ve touched on a couple of them but I’m just kind of double down there. Digital, digital, digital, so data, access to data, and making informed decisions are absolutely key. Again, I would say if you’re going to have a variety of digital projects in your various business units but do you have someone with sustainability expertise that’s either scoping those projects or implementing those projects? I mentioned before, I’ve seen this happen and as we talk right now, there is a CF O or controller who is analyzing what the SEC may anticipate coming out with what CSRD and the expectations, what they need to do to comply with that, to report and to have a third party audit it. At the same time in a business unit, there’s a digital project ongoing and they’re scoping out the data and they’re not factoring in the ESG components. So, what’s going to happen? CSRD lands, and they start requesting the data, that’s not happening. We got to go back and do that all over again.

So, having that focus on the data with those ESG elements, I would say is absolutely critical. Certainly, we talked about exploring the incentives, looking at the incentives and I would say just in terms of you’re coming in as a new co but you’ve probably already set some goals, so you’ve got some decarbonization goals out there, how are you going to meet them? So as we said, you’re going to be investing in the data, you know you’re going to have to comply, use that to create a business case, look at those incentives, and see if you can actually make money off of developing those digital projects and meet your compliance obligations. So kill 2 birds with one stone and try to get that there and the other one is again, just that strategy piece. I would just reemphasize that again, bringing the strategy into the core business and especially manufacturers. One additional thing I would call outs is new business models. You’ve been in the IT space for a while. So, for example, subscription-based models, we all know it.

It’s very comfortable. But think about that from a product and manufacturing perspective. How can I drive value through subscription-based models that actually produce less and sell fewer products? Have more of better environmental impacts, but actually maintain our increased profits. I always remember we brought a C-suite through, we helped them build a new product, sensors everything to better enable the distribution of a B2B product they were doing. And I always remember the CEO said, so Craig, you want me to go to my board and convince them to sell less of what we manufacture? Yes, on a subscription-based model, they can do that, maintain profit and tremendous sustainability benefits. So where are they at with their business model? How are they embedding sustainability into that? That to me is the top priority.

John: Got it. Because Craig, you’ve been doing this so long, I’m fascinated by where you sit and the vantage point and the visibility that you have with so much that’s going on this great planet with regards to sustainability, good sustainability practices, what trends or practices get you out of bed in the morning now? give them a couple of what’s coming in the future and why you are more hopeful than ever before.

Craig: I love the transition to EVs. It gets me so excited because we’re talking about bringing so many industries together and the whole infrastructure change that’s going to happen, that really drives me super excited about battery technology and where that can take us over the long term. And to be fair, we have to be careful of the environmental challenges. I don’t want to abandon the concerns that brought us here in the first place in terms of lithium but the opportunities are tremendous. I really enjoy that. Certainly IOT and where that’s at and the perspective and what’s going to happen in the next generation. I watch my kids and how they easily fall into that and how they adapt to it. And when you get those brains moving and it is part of their everyday life that’s going to be huge, that neither you nor can understand right now, but they just do it without thinking about it. That also really gets me excited personally but overall, the thing is, as I go back to the role that I have in global, watching the firm and watching our clients make this transition, that’s what really gets me excited. Because again, as we talked from the beginning, it’s not an argument or discussion about why are we doing this. It’s more now of how we do it effectively. How do I engage well with my shareholders and with my stakeholders and continue to drive so that I’ve got this community? It’s almost a community change in many ways. So that really keeps me going every day.

John: Well, Craig, this has been fascinating and also fun, and I want to have you back in the Future to continue to share the EY journey and sustainability and manufacturing and all the great work that you and your colleagues are doing. For those who want to find Craig and his colleagues and hire them to help get advice on how to be more sustainable in your manufacturing or de manufacturing facilities, or `any company that you own, please go to www.ey.com. Craig, thank you and EY for not only making the world a better place but a greener and more sustainable place. It’s an honor to have you on the Impact podcast today.

Craig: Thanks, John, I really appreciate It was great to be with you.

John: This episode of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Closed Loop Partners. Closed Loop Partners is a leading circular economy investor in the United States with an extensive network of Fortune 500 corporate investors, family offices, institutional investors, industry experts, and impact partners. Closed loops platform spans the arc of capital, from venture capital to private equity, bridging gaps and fostering synergies. To scale the circular economy. To find closed-loop partners, please go to www.closelooppartners.com. This edition of The Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy, and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.