Chris Wolfe is the Senior Director, Corporate Environmental / Sustainability for Bimbo Bakeries USA, Inc. and is responsible for leading environmental / sustainability efforts at operations throughout the United States and select Canadian locations.   Chris is also active with Sustainability efforts at BBU’s parent company, Grupo Bimbo S.A.B. de C.V, assisting with various Environmental, Social, Governance (ESG) initiatives.

John Shegerian: Do you have a suggestion for a Rock Star Impact Podcast guest? Go to impactpodcast.com and just click “Be a guest” to recommend someone today.  This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy. And is the largest, fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States, and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit ERIdirect.com. This episode of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Closed Loop Partners. Closed Loop Partners is a leading circular economy investor in the United States. With an extensive network of Fortune 500 corporate investors, family offices, institutional investors, industry experts, and Impact partners. Closed Loops platform spans the arc of capital from venture capital to private equity. Bridging gaps and fostering synergies to scale the circular economy. To find Closed Loop Partners, please go to www.closedlooppartners.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. I’m John Shegerian. I’m so honored to have with us today, Chris Wolfe. He’s a senior director of environmental sustainability at Bimbo Bakeries USA. Chris, welcome to the Impact Podcast.

Chris Wolfe: Awesome. Great to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

John: Of course, and you know, we’ve never covered this sector of bakery and baked products like this before. It’s so wonderful to start right at the top with you, at the pinnacle of the industry.  But before we get talking about all the important and impactful things you’re doing in sustainability at Bimbo Bakeries, USA, first, I’d like you to share the Chris Wolfe story. How did you get on this journey, and how did you get inspired to make such a difference in your career? 

Chris: It’s a great question. So I grew up, and I actually still live in Pennsylvania, in central Pennsylvania. I went to a small liberal arts school, Susquehanna University, in Selinsgrove, Pennsylvania. I was like a lot of folks. I had to find a place to work to help pay for some of the cost, and one of the premier places to work was a local bakery called Butter Crust Baking Company. I was blessed to get hired there as a summer helper. Then, over time, it turned into an internship in environmental and safety. Then, they actually offered me a full-time job. So I don’t know if I found them. They found me. So that’s how I got into the industry. They were bought out eventually by Sara Lee. I held a couple different positions in both those organizations. Then, in 2011, Bimbo Bakeries bought Sara Lee, and that’s how I got to Bimbo. So, it’s been a great ride. The interesting part about the whole arc is, I started with a family-owned bakery, and now I’m back with a family-owned bakery. Which is a much bigger company, of course.

John: Right. 

Chris: But a lot of the traits that we had 30 years ago are still there. We’re very, very fortunate to work for a family-owned company that’s very passionate in my area of expertise, which is the sustainability area and environmental. I always say, it’s the right time, and I’m working for the right company, as far as sustainability goes. So that’s kind of a quick summary of Chris Wolfe.

John: That’s a great summary. Growing up in Pennsylvania, and I grew up in New York City, but I got to spend a lot of time in Pennsylvania in my youth because I was in the race horse industry. So we used to race horses at, what was then, Liberty Bell Park Racetrack, Pocono Downs.

Chris: Yeah.

John: Then, the other parts of Pennsylvania, which I just had some of my greatest parts of my life, I spent there. When you were growing up in Central Pennsylvania, was sustainability a thing? Both traditionally speaking, in terms of your schooling and also home life. Was sustainability part of the culture there yet, or is this something that was more part of your career journey rather than your educational journey growing up in Pennsylvania, specifically?

Chris: Well, I wouldn’t say the term sustainability was there, but I think it was embedded. You know, I come from a rural part of Pennsylvania. 

John: Yeah.

Chris: So I think farmers in general have always tried to be sustainable. Try to…

John: True.

Chris:…be as efficient as possible. Earlier on in my journey in Butter Crust Baking, the owner pointed out waste, and waste elimination was the key. Just from material cost, electric, natural gas, and so forth. So we’re we [inaudible] sustainability back then? No.

John: No.

Chris: But we were doing it.

John: Doing it, right.

Chris: Then the other side, from a financial standpoint. We’re a low-margin business.

John: Right.

Chris: So we have to protect our bottom line. So I mean, if you can reduce and make your yield more efficient, your water usage, your natural gas, your electric, and so forth, you know. We’re doing it for financial reasons, at least when I started. But if you look at it now from the lens of sustainability, I mean, it goes hand in hand. 

So again, your direct question? I think it was part of it just because of where I grew up again. [crosstalk] But, again…

John: Yeah.

Chris:…it wasn’t called sustainability.

John: Right.

Chris: But it was there.

John: Right.

Chris: You know, recycling was just starting. I would say it was more environmental compliance in the early days.

John: Right.

Chris: And it’s had a career arc to where it is today.

John: That’s so interesting. Like you said, we were doing it, but it wasn’t called sustainability. Your point about resiliency and profit margin it’s so fascinating. Because obviously, you’re a sustainability OG. You’ve been doing this for a long time, even though you’re still a relatively young man. You know, what’s fascinating Chris is that back in 07 when I started the show, there was very few chief sustainability officers even then though. Like you said, some companies were doing it. But again, it hadn’t been a codified sector that had been named, and everything else with titles and things of that such. But when the C-Suite back in ’07, 8, 9, used to hear the word sustainability, they used to think that, “Woah, man. This is going to cost me more money.”. There was no thinking [crosstalk] the opposite.

Chris: Right.

John: Which was really [inaudible], and really the truth is what you said. Sustainability really can just equal resiliency, and it could create more margins if done correctly.

Chris: Right, right. From our standpoint, it’s a competitive advantage for Bimbo. Now, we’re doing it because it’s our obligation. 

John: Right.

Chris: We’re the largest baker in the world. We make food. So, a lot of the things that roll up under sustainability. It used to be that it was only environmental-focused. 

John: That’s right. 

Chris: I mean, now we look at the product areas. We look at how we treat our people. I mean, that’s a big one too is…

John: A hundred [crosstalk] percent.

Chris:…you got to treat your people the right way. They’re our greatest asset, and then you throw in the planted area. If you look at our purpose, it’s called nourishing a better world. So we have, it’s called Bake for You, which is our product area. Bake for life, which is the people area, and then Bake for Nature, which is the planet area, which is where my team mainly focuses in.  But there’s lots of overlap in there. So, as this journey expanded, were it used to be compliance-related, recycling-related, and energy-related. Now, it goes across your entire value chain, and that’s not unique to Bimbo. That’s unique to most consumer goods packaging companies today.

John: True. It’s so fascinating what you said. Sustainability could have been, like historically could have been like you said, read so narrowly on an EH&S basis, but now the breadth of it, when done right, are all across the whole organization.

Chris: Right.

John: You know Chris, just as a little bit of history and also to share with our listeners and viewers, to hear about, you are the biggest, you represent, as a senior director of environmental sustainability, the largest bakery in the world. Let’s talk about Bimbo’s size to start with. Let’s talk about, what, 35 countries are in and 20+ thousand employees?

Chris: That’s correct. That’s correct. 

John: Let’s just talk about some of your amazing brands. I mean, I’m 61 years old. I grew up in Manhattan with Entenmann’s, Sara Lee, Thomas, and Oroweat. Don’t you make the products for the iconic and amazing Cheesecake Factory as well? 

Chris: Yes, we do. Yes, we [crosstalk] do.

John: I mean…

Chris: Yeah, yeah. [crosstalk]

John: [inaudible]. I mean, [crosstalk] you got…

Chris: You did your homework. 

John: Hey. [crosstalk] [inaudible]

Chris: You did your homework. Yeah.

John: I’m like, what do you think? I’m going in the ring with a heavyweight champion, and [crosstalk]…

Chris: Yeah.

John:…not train a little bit? Come on, Chris! [crosstalk] [inaudible].

Chris: Yeah. I mean, and my [inaudible] folks, we get a little upset. So, just speaking of the US, I think we’re now at seven brands that are over a billion dollars.

John: Wow.

Chris: Yeah.

John: Wow.

Chris: They’re all kind of iconic brands [crosstalk] too, you know?

John: [inaudible] Yeah, these…

Chris: I mean, most folks, I think our household penetrations are well over 80%. So, to the listeners out there, I guarantee you that if you go to your cupboard, you got one of our products in there, if not more.

John: I guarantee. These are the comfort brands of my generation and of my children’s generation. These are amazing brands. I’ll tell you what. I don’t know anyone who goes to the Cheesecake Factory and doesn’t love the products that are there, and come away with a big smile on their face.

Chris, let’s get into it a little bit. First of all, for our listeners and viewers to find Chris and all of his colleagues and the important and impactful work they’re doing in sustainability. Please go to www.bimbobakeriesusa.com, bimbobakeriesusa.com. 

Talk a little bit about Bimbo Bakeries sustainability goals. I mean, like you said, you started at a small family-run bakery. Got acquired by the amazing brand Sara Lee. Then, that got acquired by Bimbo, and now you’re working [crosstalk] for…

Chris: Right.

John:…the largest bakery in the world, owned by a family as well. Talk a little bit about your day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month, quarter-to-quarter, year-to-year sustainability goals and ambitions at Bimbo Bakeries on a macro basis. 

Chris: Yeah. So, first, I want to just emphasize. We’re family-owned. Servitje family are very passionate about sustainability. It’s been in our philosophy since day one. Philosophy is to build a sustainable deeply or highly productive, and deeply humane company. So it’s been there since, I think it was 1945.

Chris: Wow.

John: So the fact that our senior leadership team supports it makes my job and that of the rest of the team. Again, I’m kind of like the spokesperson. I’m blessed. I have a fantastic team that works for me. We get all the support that we need across the value chain to get a lot of the milestones that we get to talk about often.  So, if you look at where we’re headed, again, I talked about nourishing a better world. That’s the purpose of Bake for You, Bake for Life. So again, Bake for You is the product area, and Bake for Life is the people area. I want to emphasize that they are extremely important. I’m going to focus more for Bake for Nature, which is the planet area, because that’s what my team directly leads and supports. So I’m going to kind of tailor the messaging toward that. Then, John, maybe later on, if you want to do another podcast specific to Bake for You or Bake for Life, I can connect you with the right people. 

John: First of all, the answer is yes. Because brands like yours are so important and impactful and are doing so many things. It’s impossible to fit it all into one podcast. Number one. Number two, I love to hear about the different divisions. So people could understand the interconnectivity of Bake for You, Bake for Life, Bake for Nature, and nourishing a better world. All very important stuff. So I’d love I would really appreciate that.  You know, so many brands keep coming back on the show. Because, as you and I know, Chris, sustainability has no finish line. It’s [crosstalk] infinity.

Chris: Correct.

John: So, that’s really where we come from, and it’s important.  Before we get going, though, I love what’s in your background here. Win big with passion, potential purpose. Talk a little bit about it. What does that mean to you? What does that mean to Bimbo Bakeries? 

Chris: Again, that’s our DNA. So, Tony Gavin’s been our president for about two years now. We kind of refreshed some things. Fred Penny, his predecessor, was very supportive of our initiatives. Tony’s continued the mantle.  So again, he’s our leader at the BBU level, Bimbo Bakeries USA. So, we rolled that out about two years. You know, that’s who we want to be, as we go forward, as we’re leaders. So, yeah. It’s a background. It’s a nice little caption back there.

John: I love it.

Chris: It dovetails into what we’re doing as far as nourishing a better world. So, you kind of asked me the question of where we’re headed?

John: Yeah.

Chris: So, if you looked at, again, what we call Bake for Nature, you’re looking at the planet area. Really, we boil down to the three areas. So, we look at emissions. So, ultimately, we want to be zero emissions by 2050. Now, is that an easy lift? No, it’s not an easy lift, and we can unpack that here as we go forward. But that’s the first tenant. What are we doing to reduce our emissions?  So, 2050 is zero carbon emissions, but the next biggest milestone is 2030. We want to reduce our thermal emission. So that’s like natural gas and fuels that we burn in our fleet by 50% for scope one. Scope three, which is kind of outside of our control, that’s tied to our suppliers. That’s 28% reduction by 2030.  But I have some good news that we’ve done. In scope two, which is an electric front.

John: Sure.

Chris: Our company in the US, and we’re well over 90 as group on Bimbo. But in the US were 101% matched for all our electric. So you might say, [crosstalk] how did you get here?

John: [inaudible] Yeah. Let’s unpack what [crosstalk] that means.

Chris: Yeah.

John: So our listeners can understand that.

Chris: Yeah. So, our journey. In 2019, we partnered with Invenergy on a wind farm in West Texas. 

John: Mm-hmm. 

Chris: It’s called a virtual purchase power agreement. It’s backed by the EPA. So, at that time, it was 100 megawatts, and that covered all of our operations. When I say all of our operations, it was manufacturing. It was sales. It was the office, everything.

John: Everything.

Chris: Now, we’ve grown since then.

John: Right.

Chris: So then, what we do is we do on-site renewables, which if you Google us, you’re going to see that every one of our facilities in California now has a microgrid, which is a percentage of solar and coupled with batteries. So, we have the wind farm. Which is again of the EPA.

John: Right.

Chris: We have on-site renewables. Then we go out and buy renewable energy credits. We procured enough, and we generated enough on-site, that, based on 2023, were 101% matched. That was a commitment we made through RE100 at the GB level, and again, in the US, we were already there. So, that’s what they call scope-two emissions.

John: Right.

Chris: So again, we started this… Okay. So, we have the carbon. Which is what I just covered.

John: Right.

Chris: The next big one is waste. If you kind of go back to my beginning, waste has always been there.

John: Right.

Chris: I mean, we’ve always looked at waste, and we’re going to continue to look at waste. I mean, that is technically the definition of sustainability. The relentless pursuit of waste elimination. I was taught that many, many years ago carries through to today. It’s very practical. So, that’s in the classical waste sense. So we’re always trying to be efficient in our operations. As far as the amount of food waste we generate, then, on the sales side, is, trying to reduce the amount of returns that come back off the store shelves.  So that’s the waste activities. That also includes packaging. Packaging is part of that number. In the fall of 2023, we were the first manufacturer in North America to produce a post-consumer recyclable package. That’s through our Arnold brand for organics. 30% of that package is from PCR. So, John, you probably saying, “What does that mean?”.

John: Yeah.

Chris: Essentially, if I recycle a milk carton…

John: Yeah.

Chris:…at my home. That plastic eventually gets grinded down, reprocessed, and then that gets made into a bread back, and it’s at 30% levels. 

John: Wow.

Chris: So that’s the packaging front. So we’re continuously trying to look at ways on the packaging. We’re trying to get to 100% recyclable or compostable for our packaging. We’re just about at 90% in the US. So we’re getting there. We’re close.

Then, water is part of that too. I mean, water is a big thing. So, we continually look at, and this is all a bucket under what we call waste.

John: Yes.

Chris: So again, emissions and waste. Yeah? 

John: You mentioned food. So now…

Chris: Yeah.

John: So food is both food waste that’s a byproduct of the manufacturing process. But also, food waste is based on the returns that come back.

Chris: Right. Yeah.

John: Has technology improved during the last, let’s just call, five to eight years?

Chris: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. 

John: Are you able to turn those food products that are no longer suitable for shelf anymore into another product? Such as compost or, you know, like…

Chris: Yeah.

John:…that is used for fertilizer or other things?

Chris: Yeah. So again, the first thing to do with waste is, you don’t create the waste.

John: Right.

Chris: So, that’s our first model.

John: Right.

Chris: Is not to create the waste.

John: Right.

Chris: But if it becomes a waste, the first thing we try to do is try to get that to people in need.

John: Got it. 

Chris: So, if it’s safe to consume…

John: Got it.

Chris:…and whether it’s… [crosstalk]

John: [inaudible]

Chris: Something happened at the bakery or if it’s returned. We have a big program with Feeding America. Well over 20 million pounds were donated last year. 

John: Wow.

Chris: Yeah. So, the first thing we try to do is leverage food banks. Get that food to people in need.

John: Beautiful. Wonderful.

Chris: Then, if that doesn’t work out, then it goes to animal feed.

John: Got it. Got it.

Chris: Then the last resort would be we either incinerate it or it goes to a landfill.

John: Understood.

Chris: Again, we try to avoid that as much as possible. But we’re really proud of the partnership we have with Feeding America as far as getting those products in people in need.

John: That is really wonderful. You’ve mentioned earlier, on the emission side, obviously the big, audacious goal of net zero by 2050. Obviously, along the way, they’re stepping stones as of in 2030. When it comes to waste reduction and elimination, hopefully, and sometimes diversion, what’s your goal there in the years ahead? How, [crosstalk] [inaudible]…

Chris: So…

John:…benchmarking yourself there?
 
Chris: Yeah. So, from a food waste perspective, It’s a 50% reduction from baseline in 2019 by 2030. 

John: Wow.

Chris: It’s pretty aggressive.

John: 11 years. Wow.

Chris: Yeah. We align with the United Nations programs that they have out there. Again, you know, we’re a food manufacturer. We don’t want our food being wasted.

John: Right.

Chris: So, yeah. It’s 50%, and we’re making progress on it. But that’s the journey as far as that, from a target standpoint.

John: Got it. Then, what’s the third pillar of…

Chris: The third one is regenerative agriculture. Which, I watched your podcast from a couple months ago, which I think you talked about. Was that General Mills? 

John: Yeah.

Chris: Correct?

John: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah, that was fantastic. So, the last one is regenerative agriculture. So again, the old standard was sustainable agriculture. Where you wanted to maintain the levels. Now, we’re trying to work with our suppliers with the farmers to enhance the soil conditions.

John: Right.

Chris: Because, depending scientifically, on who you look at, our main ingredient is wheat for most of our products. So, where’s it coming from? It comes from the central part of the state. From the US into Canada. Depending on what you look at, it could be as little as 50 soil seasons left if we don’t take action.  So, you know, again, it’s our obligation. We want to lead. That’s the other big thing about Bimbo. We’re the leaders, and we’re going to continue to be the leaders. So we’re going to partner with our suppliers to work on sustainable agriculture to enhance the soil condition. So that’s the third component.

John: That’s so fascinating. For listeners and viewers who have just joined us. We got Chris Wolfe with us today. He’s a senior director of environmental sustainability at Bimbo Bakeries USA. To find Chris and all of his colleagues and all the important and impactful work they’re doing in environmental sustainability, please go to www.bimbobakeriesusa.com. Talk a little bit about energy. Let’s go back to energy again, and for 7 years in a row, you are the US EPA’s energy star partner of the year. You’ve won that award, and 19 of your North American facilities have earned EPA energy star certifications. These are, you know, for our listeners and viewers out there who don’t know about energy stars and levels of difficulty. This is no easy feat, and this is something to be massively congratulated on. How do you pull off that level of success with regards to energy star and energy star awards and certifications, Chris?

Chris: Well, there’s a lot of activities in there. But again, I’m going to go back to the most… Our people are the biggest asset we have. So, it’s frontline engagement, is where it all starts.

John: Yeah.

Chris: Specific to energy star. Seven consecutive years, we were the only dedicated food and beverage company to ever win it. Which is amazing. 

John: Yeah.

Chris: The bakeries that are certified, so to be a certified bakery, you got to be the best of the best. So you got to be 75% or greater when compared to our peers.

John: Hmm. 

Chris: So, that’s how those bakeries get certified again, most ever. I mean, we’re continuing there. Now it fluctuates year over year, the numbers that we have. Great partnership with Energy Star. I got to give a plug to the EPA. That’s the right type of relationship you want to have. It’s a partnership. It truly is a partnership. We learn from them, they learn from us. I think our Frederick facility was the first baker to ever get recognized. That’s called their Challenge Program.  So that’s where you demonstrate at least a 10% reduction in your energy intensity within five years, and Frederick did it. I think it was well over a decade ago. I don’t think it was 2012, maybe 2014, but that’s when we started the journey with Energy Star. We’re going to continue to support them. As a matter of fact, I’m speaking on it again next week. So, big proponents [inaudible] that.  EPA has another program called the Green Power Partnership. We’re on the top 100 list. If you look at the list, there’s some heavy weights on that list. So it’s always nice to be on that list. That fluctuates. I think we’re at 39 on the top 100 list, and that’s based on the amount of our electricity that’s matched, as I discussed earlier.  So, just a couple of plugs there. Again, we’re very proud of those. Like I said, I’m the spokesperson. There’s so many people involved. I got a great team that works on that. I’d name them all by name, but that wouldn’t be fair to everybody because I’d probably miss somebody. But again, in the leadership team. If we go to them with a project, in most cases, if we make a compelling case, they’re going to say yes. So you got the energy star. We talked about the microgrids. The other big thing, if you read the… I think it was last week. We just announced that we have a partnership with Harbinger or Electrical Vehicles.

John: Yeah. [crosstalk] [inaudible]

Chris: That was a big one. 

John: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah. So, I can’t get into specifics. Like dollars and the number of vehicles. I can just say, it’s big. But again, it gives us the ability to go to market, where it makes sense with the Step Van that is run on electric, and we’re going to continue to expand that.  We continue to leverage technology on our fleet side. So we define alternative vehicles as anything other than gasoline or diesel. So, we have compressed natural gas. We have propane vehicles. Yes, their fossil fuels, but they burn cleaner. Then you throw in hybrids. Big proponent of hybrids. Then we also have the EVs. Then we’re going to continue to look at technology as it advances. Someday, maybe it’ll be hydrogen.

John: I want to talk about technology in a second. Talk a little bit about though, reporting. You know the world as we know it has really got big into, not only doing the great work that you do at Bimbo Bakeries USA with your colleagues. But then, the radical transparency that, you know, financial institutions, constituencies, and all those people who enjoy and love your brands. Demand of now, the reporting. Where do you guys report? Is there, one once a year, an environmental impact report that comes out and it gets put up on your website? Where do you report on all these amazing achievements that you and your colleagues are doing at Bimbo Bakeries USA?

Chris: Now, good question, John. So, for most of us, the easiest way to find out what we’re doing is on our website or you go to our annual report. So, if you go to the Grupo Bimbo Annual Report, there’s a huge section on sustainability. 

John: Got it.

Chris: Of all the good work we’re doing. We also have externals. So, CDP, GRI. These are reports that are tied to financials or also just tied to… We’re putting them out there for the NGOs. So that we know what our carbon footprint is and our impact. So there are two big ones.

Consumers. So we’ll talk about consumers. The consumer is more educated now about sustainability than they ever were. So they will pay more for sustainable products. It’s very important to them. 

John: That’s right. 

Chris: So that’s the consumer, associates, and new hires. It’s important to them to work for a company that has sustainability in their vision and mission. Then, you come back to the customer. So customers like Walmart’s, Target’s, Costco, and so forth. It’s extremely important to them. They don’t just look at it from… Again, our main discussion today is the planet area.

John: Sure.

Chris: But they also look at it from a social standpoint. How do you treat your associates? That’s for diversity, equity, and belonging. We’re big into community activities. You know, we want to be a good neighbor. That’s where that all comes into play. 

John: You mentioned the employee part. That’s really an important part. In a post-COVID world where employee engagement is maybe more important than ever before. It’s a great… So many people in the next generation. Gen X, Gen Z, Millennials even, want and not only make a paycheck now, they want to make a difference. So working for a company like Bimbo Bakeries. I’m sure it’s a huge advantage, over some of your competition to be able to say, “Hey, you’re going to make a paycheck, but you’re also going to make a difference. Here’s why.”.

Chris: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

John: That’s recruiting and retention, I assume.

Chris: Yes, it is. Yeah, and if you look, we historically rank very high and we get award adorned on that type of areas.

John: Talk a little bit about technology. You know, we can’t wake up any morning without turning on TV and watching either Bloomberg or CNBC or reading the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal and not reading about Nvidia and AI in this whole, you know, hype cycle that we’re in with regards to AI. I don’t mean that negatively. I don’t [crosstalk] mean [inaudible]…

Chris: No.

John:…cycle as a derogation on what’s going on, but it is. It’s every day in the news. How is AI and other technologies, or robotics and automation, going to continue to help you in your journey with regards to environmental sustainability and making a company that’s more sustainable and resilient, not only today but for the years ahead?

Chris: Yeah. So as far as technology goes, our culture is that we embrace it. Again, that starts with Daniel Servitje and the senior leadership team. So they want us to embrace it.

John: Got it.

Chris: Sometimes it’s successful. Sometimes it’s not. But if you don’t embrace it, we may miss out. Now, AI’s part of what… Like, we have it. I can’t get into the details, but we’re leveraging AI.

John: Right.

Chris: But from a technology front, we need to always look at technology. I mean, the way we bake bread today? Yes, it’s in an oven, but the controls, the sophistication that we have in our ovens versus where they were five or ten years ago, has taken a giant leap. You know, we have the equipment manufacturers. They work hand-in-hand with us. So, we’re leveraging that. Then, if you look at the fleet and the logistics side of things, the miles that we can go? Even if you’re talking conventional gas and diesel today versus where they were? Much more efficient. They’re much more efficient on the back end as far as control and what comes off the exhaust. Then we’re continuing to look at alternatives.  I mean, everybody wants to talk electric, which, we do electric where it makes sense. Hybrids out there. Where’s it going in the future? You know, it could be combination, electric hydrogen, you know, we don’t… Then, back to the bakery.  So, all of our bakery oven’s natural gas. Natural gas is a very clean fuel. I recognize it’s a fossil fuel, but not all fossil fuels are equal. So we have natural gas ovens. But the future might be hybrid, where we use natural gas and electric in our ovens. Then eventually, maybe hydrogen. Then here’s the thing. We don’t know what the future is. There’s some bright person out there that’s going to develop technology. I hope there’s a huge leap in the next five years, and we’ll embrace it and we’ll go from there.

John: Chris, you know, Bimbo Bakeries, as we said, is the top of the show, has 20,000+ employees. It’s the largest bakery on the planet, and you’re doing business in 35 or more countries. Talk a little bit about your colleagues or counterparts around the world. How often are you communicating with, and sharing best practices with your counterparts across the planet in environmental sustainability and other issues that affect you today, and also keep you all looking with a horizon on the future?

Chris: So we get together at least once a year. I actually had the pleasure to go to Bogota, Colombia. That’s who hosted it this year. So cross-functional value chain. You know, well represented. So, once a year, they try to do a meeting that’s strictly focused on sustainability. When I say sustainability, it includes that whole ESG package of the product, the people, and the planet. So that occurred in April. Then we have virtual meetings. We communicate or WhatsApp. I have peers that I can leverage. Because if I’m dealing with an issue or an opportunity, there’s somebody else in this great organization that may have faced it already, and we share best practices.  Now, each region is a little bit different. They have different challenges from region to region. But we have great communication. We get great support. When you’re in as many countries as we are, we’re all at different levels. So again, it’s just one great family, and as we like to say, it’s one Bimbo.

John: Got it. You know, outside of your own company, Chris, where do you find inspiration and aspiration with regards to what other brands are doing and what other leaders are doing in environmental sustainability? What other industries do you look to to keep your curiosity alive, well, and kicking as you look to new technologies and new opportunities to continually improve Bimbo Bakeries USA?

Chris: It’s kind of diversified. You know, we look at other food companies. We look at other CPG companies, obviously, and we benchmark.

John: Right.

Chris: But sometimes it’s good to go outside the food.

John: Right.

Chris: You know, what’s the auto industry doing?

John: Right.

Chris: What’s the tech industry doing? Speaking of the tech industry, we do have a conduit to Silicon Valley. We have some friends there that keep us posted on some of the technologies that’s pushing through. Emerging technology, all kinds of stuff. Again, we have access to resources that some others don’t, and we leverage those. But again, I wouldn’t say we look at one. We just kind of spread the net and go from there. 

John: Well, people have heard me say this numerous times before on this show. But I get to say this after 17 years of doing a couple thousand of these shows. You belong to what I think of as one of the coolest fraternities of corporate leaders in the world. You know, the chief sustainability officers, the directors of environmental sustainability. I find it to be, even in the same industry, a group that, even though maybe even competitive sometimes, very sharing of information and helps one another to basically improve the journey and make it better for everybody.

Chris: Yeah. Now, here’s an interesting thing, John, that you may or may not know. But, our our new CEO, Rafael Pamias, that was just announced. He was our chief sustainability officer. Now he’s [crosstalk] our CEO.

John: Right. Is this a big announcement? Wait, Chris, are you telling me, you’re a direct line after him, to be the next… [crosstalk]

Chris: No. No, no, [crosstalk] no, no.

John: Wait a second. Is this…

Chris: No.

John: We rarely get to do breaking news on this show. This might be [crosstalk] breaking news…

Chris: Yeah.

John:…Chris!

Chris: Yeah. No, it’s not that links that close. But he’s exceptional. So…

John: That’s awesome.

Chris:…that was announced last month.

John: That’s great.

Chris: That’s pretty cool when he did [crosstalk] more than…

John: Yeah.

Chris:…just the, obviously, he was more than just this Chief Sustainability Officer. Very dynamic. He’s got some big shoes to fill in in Daniel Servitje, but Daniel is still around. He’s very passionate. He’s not going away. But I just want to throw that out. You were talking a little bit about Chief sustainability officers and, you know, our new CEO, Rafael Pamias. Again, he was our chief sustainability officer, now he’s our CEO.

John: Well, let me share this with you. So, we’re taping this show on June 3rd, 2024. Do you know that the new president of Mexico, Claudia Sheinbaum? First female president. What her profession is? She’s an environmental scientist. 

Chris: Yeah.

John: So, there’s something in the air here, Chris.

Chris: Yeah.

John: You might be running for US Senator or something soon, in Pennsylvania. Because, seriously, all kidding aside. I’m so glad you shared what you shared because, listen, is there an issue that Congress or the Senate… I mean, of course, there’s hundreds of important issues. But, there’s really nothing to talk about if we don’t get on the ball here and decarbonize this planet and heal the planet from all the Industrial Revolution and pre-industrial Revolution harms that we did to this planet, including current harms. It still get to be done. I mean, there’s nothing else to talk about. So it’s a baseline issue. You know, cleaner water, cleaner air, better environment, and everything else. So, it’s being recognized. People are voting not only with their pocketbooks but with their actual votes.

Chris: Yeah, yeah. I’ll try to stay out of politics. I think if we could correct something…

John: Yeah.

Chris:…it would be, you know, when it comes to energy and environmental policy. It can’t be pocketed for four-year terms or eight-year terms. That’s part of the problem.

John: That’s true. You’re right.

Chris: It changes with each administration. If we’d all sit in a room and come up with a 40-year, 50-year energy plan, most people would be happy with it. 

John: Yeah.

Chris: But unfortunately, with the way the current setting is, that’s not going to happen. But we can try to push. We can kind of try to push the envelope, get it to change. But again, we only have one planet. We can do it in a way that makes sense financially and also to save the planet. Like I said earlier on, I mean, you can embrace sustainability and at the same time be mindful of the economic impact as well. 

John: You know, I don’t want to brush over what you brought up earlier. It’s really important. What you’ve created at the Arnold Bread with regards to the first bread bag that uses 30% post-consumer recycled plastic and content in it.

Chris: Yeah.

John: How difficult was that lift? Number one. And, is that do you believe again, since you’re an embracer of technology as a brand goes, that you’re open to all new technologies. Do you believe we’ll be able to keep improving on that in the years ahead?

Chris: Yeah, that’s going to continue to expand. Again, at Bimbo, we were very fortunate. We have sustainable packaging engineers. We got marketers. We got procurement involved. We have the actual bag manufacturers that are engaged in it. As the supply continues to increase with the availability for that type of plastic, you’re going to see that PCR is going to expand. You’re already seeing it. There’s more of a push on the rigid plastic side versus the plastic that we deal with. But I would expect within five to ten years that most plastics that are out there are going to have a certain percentage of it. It’s the right thing to do. Technology’s pushing it to the point where it’s viable. And if you have all that material that’s being recycled out there. Why wouldn’t you want to use it?

John: Agreed. I’m with you. You know, Chris, this has just been a delight. I’m so grateful for your time today. For our listeners and viewers. If you want to find Chris Wolfe and his colleagues and all the important and impactful work they’re doing in environmental sustainability, please go to www.bimbobakeriesusa.com. You know, Chris, I know we want you back. But I would love to have your colleagues on, to talk about the other different divisions. You guys are working on, with regards to your journeys, in terms of Bake for You, Bake for Life. Obviously, you covered today Bake for Nature.  Not only am I grateful for the time you spent with us today on the Impact Podcast. But I’m really grateful to you and your colleagues, all of your colleagues. 20,000 plus at Bimbo Bakeries, for nourishing a better world and making the world a better and more sustainable place.

Chris: I appreciate the opportunity, John. Again, I want to reach out to all of our associates. Everything we do happens because of our associates, and again, because we get all the support from our leadership team. So thanks to all.

John: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking platform, revolutionizing the talent booking industry. With thousands of athletes, celebrities, entrepreneurs, and business leaders. Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent for speeches, custom experiences, livestreams, and much more. For more information on Engage or to book talent today, visit letsengage.com. This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy. And is the largest, fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States, and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.