As the Senior Director of Global Sustainability at Levi Strauss & Co., Jennifer DuBuisson is responsible for the company’s sustainability strategy and targets and leads its work in climate, water, waste and sustainable chemistry. In this role, she supports LS&Co.’s mission to deliver profits through principles to make an outsized impact on the world. Prior to her role at LS&Co. Jennifer worked for nearly 15 years in the toy industry focused on social and environmental responsibility and public policy related to environment, product and chemical safety, brand protection, privacy, and education.

John Shegerian: Get the latest Impact Podcast right into your inbox each week. Subscribe by entering your email address at impactpodcast.com to make sure you never miss an interview. This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy, and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit ERIdirect.com. This episode of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Closed Loop Partners. Closed Loop Partners is a leading circular economy investor in the United States with an extensive network of Fortune 500 corporate investors, family offices, institutional investors, industry experts, and impact partners. Closed Loop’s platform spans the arc of capital from venture capital to private equity, bridging gaps and fostering synergies to scale the circular economy. To find Closed Loop partners, please go to www.closedlooppartners.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. I’m John Shegerian and I’m so honored to have with us today, Jennifer DuBuisson. She’s the Senior Director of Sustainability of Levi Strauss & Company. Welcome to the Impact Podcast, Jennifer.

Jennifer DuBuisson: Hi, John. Great to be here.

John: Hey, great to be here. You’re in a little bit of the chilly side of the country right now in Connecticut as we’re taping this in February. I’m on the West Coast, so I’m sending all my warmest greetings to you right now.

Jennifer: Thank you. We appreciate it over here. It’s quite icy.

John: Jennifer, before we get talking about all the wonderful things you and your colleagues are doing in sustainability at Levi Strauss, can you please share a little bit about who you are, where you grew up, and how you got here?

Jennifer: Absolutely. Well, speaking of warm weather, I grew up in Southern California, so I’m not a native New Englander. I long to have my soul warmed at least once a year and get back to see my family in California. Yeah, I grew up in Southern California. My background, my bachelor’s degrees in biology, is always interested in science. I think maybe my junior year, I watched some video on Oregon deforestation, and I just knew right then. It was the first time I’d felt so emotive about something, and so I kind of changed my path a little bit and wanted to focus in on environmental issues, and graduated and got a job working in air quality consulting. There was a lot of compliance then, in terms of where the field was out at the time. Then I quickly learned about a year into that role that I didn’t want to just do air quality consulting. I wanted to be able to make decisions. And so I went back to grad school, to the Bren School at UC Santa Barbara, Go Gauchos, and did corporate environmental management there. From there, I was able to land my first official sustainability role in corporate responsibility at Mattel, which took me on about a 15-year journey working in the toy industry, which was super, super fun. My kids have really benefited from 15 years working in toys. When I started at Mattel, I was doing social labor auditing. Again, that’s where the field was. And so I point that out just because I think sustainability is at a different space right now, but I was doing auditing of facilities in China and Mexico, etc., and worked there for about five years, working on stakeholder engagement. That was a period of time which all these retailers were asking lots of questions about sustainability and what brands were doing it, etc.. Then from there, I had the opportunity to transition roles to work for the Lego Group, and so that’s what took my family to the East Coast. We moved, nine-month-old baby, two cats and all, across the country, and I worked at the Lego Group for a little over 8 years doing both sustainability strategy, as well as public policy. And so I kind of switched gears a little bit into my career. When I left the Lego Group, I was heading up public policy for the Americas market, working on environmental issues but obviously a much broader suite of topics, particularly during COVID, a lot of things going on. Then this opportunity came up at Levi’s, and it was a chance to move into a new industry. I was ready for a period of learning. I think, sometimes, we get so comfortable in what we do, we forget what learning feels like. So, I was ready to kind of jump into the deep end a bit and take on a new industry and frankly get back and to do sustainability. I wanted to be able to look at my kids and tell them I tried, so that’s what’s gotten me here.

John: I mean, listen, we’ve had thousands of guests on this show over the last 17 or so years, but talk about a career with three of the most iconic American brands possible. I mean, Mattel, Lego, and Levi Strauss, you are the American sustainable dream.

Jennifer: I know. And my son’s name is Leo, so I’m kind of stuck within this L-E thing. I think I can’t go anywhere else now. Let’s start with an L-E. Yeah, I’ve been so incredibly privileged and blessed to get to work for such big, iconic brands. They say it’s a privilege to lead a purposeful life, and I was incredibly blessed.

John: It’s true. Yeah, but I’m sure all those organizations are better because you were there, and they were lucky to have you as well, and we’re lucky to have you here as well, too. So, now you’re in Levi Strauss. Let’s just give a little order to our listeners and viewers. Obviously, Levi Strauss is founded in 1853, one of the most iconic brands on this planet. But just as a little overview, annual revenues, about $6.4 billion, over 18,000 employees doing business in over 110 countries in the world. So, that goes back to your title, Senior Director of Sustainability. As you and I know, now this is a very big brand operating across the world, and sustainability, as you and I know, can be read very narrowly or very broadly. Talk a little bit about how broadly or narrowly your role is defined with regards to Senior Director of Sustainability on a day-to-day, quarter-to-quarter, year-to-year basis at Levi Strauss & Company.

Jennifer: Yeah, we think about it pretty broadly here. Sustainability, we define in these three pillars of climate, consumption, and community. So, within climate, which is where a lot of my team focuses, we are working on our scope three, scope one, and two targets. We’re working on setting up a water strategy, thinking about biodiversity. And then in consumption, that’s focused on waste, as we’re thinking around what needs to be circular ready, really, what it takes to make that product. And then the community piece is also part of our broad kind of remit around sustainability, but really in partnership with the others in our organization. So, it’s talking around our continued commitment to diversity and inclusion. It continues to talk about our efforts in our foundation and public affairs team, worker well-being, which is so critical to the work we do. So, it really runs a broad spectrum across sustainability.

John: How big is your sustainability department? How many employees approximately?

Jennifer: We’ve got 35 employees around the world focused on sustainability and a lot of champions in the org.

John: Wow. So, a lot of ambassadors, evangelists, and champions all across the organization. That’s awesome. For our listeners and viewers, also to find Jennifer and her colleagues at Levi Strauss, you can go to www.levistrauss.com. I’m on your website right now, and not only is it a visually gorgeous website, but what I find so interesting and I find so compelling is reading left to right on the header, Levi Strauss & Company, obviously it’s your brand name, “Who We Are”, but second in the header, after your name, brand, and after the “Who We Are” section is “Sustainability in Action”. Sustainability is that much part of your DNA and your core beliefs at Levi Strauss that literally on the cover landing page of Levi Strauss & Company, it’s right there. No one can miss it.

Jennifer: Yeah, no, it very much is, and I think it comes to life really in two ways. I think one, as you mentioned, John, like 170 plus year old company founded on the exact question of how could I make these jeans more durable? How could I put rivets that would make these jeans stand the test of time? And we see that still today, these jeans that are just lasting and being passed on. So, I think durability and that concept of sustainability is so embedded in who we are. And our mission is profits through principles. That is literally the mission of the company. And so that doesn’t always mean that we get to make easy decisions. Sometimes, we have to make the hard decisions, but doing such and such a way that really lives to our values and our principles.

John: I want to get back to the profits thing a little while, but talk a little bit about the release of your climate plan, the Levi Strauss climate plan, and why is that so important for your brand and what you’re doing with your colleagues in sustainability?

Jennifer: Yeah, thank you for that. I think super proud about the plan. It’s one of the first in the apparel industry to be put out. I think you’re hearing a lot of talk about these climate transition plans. And it’s really this roadmap that allows us to figure out how we’re going to tackle these challenges head on as it relates to decarbonization. It outlines our ambitions, our key focus areas, and really the pathway forward to drive meaningful change. We can dive into the specifics of the plan, but I think for us, it’s really around continuing this long held tradition, but with a much more solid roadmap and greater specificity than ever before.

John: And talk a little bit about, though, the importance of it compared to the times we live in. As you and I know, you’ve been doing sustainability for your whole career. I’ve been doing sustainability the last 20 something years. And there’s an arc, and there’s some trends that are undeniable that aren’t going to go away in our lifetime, or probably our children’s lifetime as well, in terms of the shift from the linear to the circular economy, the chasing of net zero, of cooling down the planet, the importance of cooling down the planet, and just being more sustainable, just in terms of, as you just mentioned earlier, in terms of profitability and resilience. Why right now is it more important for a company like Levi Strauss to put out a climate plan, to message what you’re messaging, even in the times when other companies are bowing to political pressures or actually paring down their sustainability programs?

Jennifer: Yeah, I think that one of the first couple pages of our climate transition plan is a message from Michelle Gass, our CEO, and she talks about climate change being the existential challenge of our time. And I think when you have designated something like climate change as that existential challenge, it is worthy of a plan. And thinking a lot about this too, so many other functions in a company. If they were going to come to your executives or to your board and say, “I have a target, a sales target, a savings target, or whatever production target,” your team would say, or the executives would say, “Great. How much and how are we going to do it?” And that’s exactly the message that we got to. When we set that 42% goal, our executive team said, “Awesome, how are you going to do it and how much is it going to cost?” And so that’s where our team really got to work to develop a plan. I think that’s really where you’re seeing, a lot of shift in sustainability that it’s not about putting overly audacious or ambitious goals out there anymore. It’s about having credible plans. And if you put a goal forward, you have to have a roadmap for how you’re going to get there. I’m so excited that it’s a lot of hard work to do, but to really get into the details to understand what is driving your emissions to create a solid plan. It also means like focusing fewer things, but at scale, for driving impact and doing those things better.

John: I totally agree. So, if we’re going to bookend your Levi Strauss climate plan, and you’re going to tell us and our listeners, what’s the two or three most important parts of it that you’re the most excited about? And then what keeps you up at night? What’s the most challenging or difficult part to nail, to land in that plan? Walk us through those bookends.

Jennifer: I think what I would want listeners to take away is that when it comes to the decarbonization, it’s really around our strategy for change. There are four key levers, accelerating what works, future-proofing our design, incentivizing renewables and owning our own part. And we can talk about all of those in greater detail. I’d also want readers to know that it’s about more than just climate. It’s about biodiversity. It’s about water. These are really interconnected issues. I think when it comes to the biggest challenges, we need to be moving together in the same direction and at more similar speeds. We have a complex supply chain, but it’s not a unique supply chain. There’s a lot of shared suppliers within apparel all the way down to the raw material level. And so how we can work together to create meaningful progress, even just consistency in our messaging for our suppliers so that they can be more focused with their efforts and reducing confusion and ultimately accelerating progress. But being able to do that collaboration efficiently, I think, is the real challenge that we need to tackle.

John: Got it. And just for our listeners and viewers, just to go over what Jennifer just said a little while ago, when you click on Sustainability in Action on Levi Strauss, levistrauss.com is their website, it just says, “We adhere to our profits through principles approach to business.” So, again, as you know, you’re a sustainability OG, Jennifer, an OG, a legit OG. And as the OGs of sustainability know, 20 years ago, even less than that, when C-suite used to hear the word sustainability, they used to think, “How much is this going to cost me? And how much money do I need to waste to waive the sustainability flag?” But it’s actually the opposite. Sustainability leads to a company or organization that’s much more resilient, and that’s much more profitable if done the right way.

Jennifer: Absolutely. And we really tried to find those ways to integrate sustainability into the business. And that’s what this is. I mean, even the developing of this plan, I think, again, as I said, leveled the playing field, how sustainability was reviewed. I have a plan just like any other e-commerce or sales department in our company has, and it has the same level of vote of confidence that those other departments have.

John: Got it. So then let’s walk through the challenge. Walk through the first four goals, and what’s your path to get there? Then let’s talk about your greatest challenge or challenges with regards to the climate plan and how you attempt to climb those mountains.

Jennifer: Yeah. So, just going back to kind of the four levers of change with plan. Okay, we’ve got accelerating, what works, and I think after looking at years and years of data, what we found was that when our suppliers have targets, when they have done these assessments to understand where their improvement opportunities are, they just make more progress. That’s what the facts were telling us. And so, we’ve been working really, again, in close partnership and collaboration to get our suppliers, setting those science-based aligned targets, getting these energy and water assessments underway such that they can make more progress. Advocacy also plays a key part in that. We need to be partnering with others to drive for advocacy at the federal level, and obviously, in a lot of other markets that we work in. When it comes to future-proofing our design, that’s that second lever. That’s around moving into more recycled materials, both in our cotton and our poly, as well as making sure that we’re setting guardrails around where we’re sourcing materials from. It’s really important, I think when you think around supply chains, a lot of this ended up falling to the suppliers. It’s like, “Well, what does the supply chain need to do?” [inaudible]. And it was important for us to also say like, “Well, what is our skin in the game? What do we own? What can we control to make a positive contribution to getting to that 42%?”, which is why we had that focus on materials. The third lever, incentivizing renewables, probably not surprising to anyone listening here. We need to figure out how we can get those suppliers moving on that fuel and technology pipeline. Towards electrification, towards renewables, thinking about biomass, getting them out of coal. We’re really working on what are those mechanisms, even those financial tools that we can put into place to accelerate that progress. The last one is owning our own part, and that really comes to closing data gaps. I’m sure that this is happening in other industries too, but like, a lot of the life cycle assessments, the industry assumptions are outdated. And then this is informing all of these inventories, et cetera. And so really working to improve the primary data that we have from our supply chain and even our counterparts in the business to making sure that the data we’re putting forth is robust and accurate. We have seen great improvements just by getting better data, as opposed to making potentially significant investments in the supply chain. Like actually, we just needed better data all along. So, it’s a combination of those four things that are helping us get to 42%. I think the last thing I would just add there is that I remember when we were developing this plan and we still had this still to solve gap, and I think you see this in a lot of plans, like there’s 5, 10%, we don’t know how we’re going to get there. And I really went and challenged my team because I feel like we’re talking 2030. There is not some new solution that’s never been developed or never come about that’s going to be at scale in 4 years to implement in your supply chain. It’s just not going to happen. So, we needed to go back. We needed to dig deeper to figure out how hard we could pull these levers that we could hit this 42%.

John: Got it. Then what happens when it comes to water and biodiversity? Talk a little bit about water and biodiversity.

Jennifer: What I would just say there is that the challenges are interconnected, and so our solutions need to be too. I think for too long, as sustainability professionals, and maybe just because of the way we’re structured internally in companies, we end up getting really siloed. I sit in this privileged position where I get to oversee climate and water and biodiversity, and so I get to bring them all together. But we really wanted to make sure that we were thinking about climate change and the impact it was having on biodiversity, ecosystems, freshwater access, as well as even climate justice. We’re all making these decisions from circularity to regen agriculture, and they have an impact. So, really trying to be holistic and systemic about how we were thinking around the decisions we’re making as it comes to climate and the impacts it would then have on water and biodiversity. And sometimes there’s trade-offs.

John: When you look back on your career, what I want to [inaudible] call storied career, because if I ever had the chance to work with three amazing brands like you, it would be a storied career for sure. But that’s not…

Jennifer: I interned at Toyota as well, to add to my…

John: What?

Jennifer: …my corporate time.

John: Wow. So, walking into this position, do you feel like the skill sets that you were allowed and privileged to hone at all your previous employers get you ready for this position? And if yes, what was a shock to you in this new position when you came over? And what’s been a real, “Wow, this is something I got to learn on the job,” type of thing?

Jennifer: Super question. I think as you advance in your career, not that hard technical skills don’t matter, but it’s really the soft skills that continue to allow you to thrive. It’s how you build relationships, it’s executive presence, it’s communication, authenticity. Those are the things that really help you [inaudible]…

John: So true.

Jennifer: …to lead teams. And often, when I think about my leadership style, it’s about leading sustainably. It’s not about leading sustainability, but about leading sustainably. And so how can we do that as leaders? I think those people leadership skills, those ability to navigate organizations, those soft skills are tremendously important. And those are transferable skill sets that you can build.

John: True.

Jennifer: Yes, technical skills like life cycle assessment and greenhouse gas accounting are important, but I think as you elevate in your career, you’re at best learning to be comfortable, to be conversational, to talk about it. So, I think that those are some of the skill sets I would think are most important.

John: Well, talk a little bit about leadership in a, I hate to use this terminology, but whatever I’m going to anyway, in a post-COVID world. Let me tell you what I’m trying to get to here. I’m 62. When I was 22, everything we did was face-to-face in New York City. Every business meeting I had was face-to-face. So, face-to-face meetings were pretty much so democratized and ubiquitous that it really wasn’t a special event. Now, in the advent of technology, obviously in the technological revolution vis-a-vis what we also then leaned into during COVID, Zoom and Teams and all that other kind of stuff. For instance, when you and I first signed on to this call today, you have that X factor that you make everyone feel comfortable right away. And as a leader, as you say, that’s a soft skill that is so important, unbelievably important. How do you then manage the high wire act of doing things online but also the personal touch and being in person in a post-COVID world where it seems like some version of a hybrid has turned up at every brand?

Jennifer: Yeah. I think for us too, definitely those folks who are in San Francisco, they’re working in a hybrid environment. When you have a product like ours, you do need to be in the office, like feeling, touching, working together, and I think we know that that can accelerate progress. But I think COVID also showed that people can be really successful continuing to work remotely. I have really, through most of my career, managed remote Teams. And I think one thing that I take away is, for those colleagues who aren’t living in a headquarters, how much this remote environment has leveled the playing field for them and made them feel seen in a way that before, everything was just happening in a headquarters and you never had visibility to what was happening if you were sitting in a different part of the world. And now, I think being able to connect at different time zones, being able to see people in their home environment with their children and their lives really makes you appreciate a full person, that we’re not just who we are at work. And I think that has definitely impacted my leadership style because you want to see people for who they are. And what they what they bring to work is all of they are and you want that. You are informed every day by the experiences that you’re having and not just those at work.

John: The climate plan goes beyond obviously water and biodiversity and all the other great things that we were just talking about, but it also talks about nature and climate justice. Define nature with regards to the importance of nature at Levi Strauss, and define climate justice with regards to how you define it at Levi Strauss, and what you want the outcomes to be.

Jennifer: Yeah. So, when it comes to nature, yes, we manufacture clothing, yes, we sell in retail stores across 110 markets, but we source a lot of cotton. So, 90% of our product portfolio is cotton. And so, nature has a tremendous amount of impact on us and our ability to source our most critical raw material. For us, it’s really comes to what we can do to halt and reverse biodiversity loss. We were one of the first brands to really quantify our end-to-end impacts when it came to biodiversity loss. And so, we are in the process now of building on that with a material and water footprint and trying to figure out how we can reduce those impacts on nature by creating more resilient ecosystems. And a lot of those are cotton. We partner closely with the US Cotton Trust Protocol. They’re working really hard to make sure that we have regenerative ecosystems because they need to be able to withstand and get more carbon in the soil. That makes it more resilience to drought and wind and floods, et cetera. So, tremendous opportunities there in terms of building ecosystems and reducing our impact on biodiversity, which is so important for the longevity of our business. When it comes to climate justice, I think, well, not new in terms of the work that had been being done for a long time. We have, for a long time, prioritized communities and the workers that are in our supply chain. But I think the term in and of itself is a bit new for people, and I think companies are just trying to grasp around what it actually all means. For us, we believe that the workers who produce our products should be so in a safe work environment, a healthy work environment, be treated with dignity and respect. This means that we need to take a more outcome-based approach when we’re thinking about climate justice. I’ve said to some people the other day, “Sometimes, we need to take a step back before we take a step forward.” And that’s, I think, what climate justice is. It’s taking a step back and thinking about the decisions you’re making from circularity strategies to regen agriculture and understanding what are the outcomes that this could have, particularly on those populations that are already probably the most severely impacted in marginalized communities when it comes to climate change. So, thinking about that, understanding what are the tools already in your toolbox that you can use to address that and what are other opportunities that you can move forward with to reduce those impacts on those who are going to be most impacted by those decisions and by climate change.

John: If you’ve just joined us now, we’ve got Jennifer DuBuisson with us today. She’s a Senior Director of Sustainability at Levi Strauss & Company. To find Jennifer and her colleagues and all the important work they’re doing in sustainability, please go to www.levistrauss.com. Jennifer, talk a little bit about the difference between your climate plan and your sustainability report, because I’m on your website. You have a sustainability report, then you have your climate plan. It’s one of the most robust websites I’ve ever seen when it comes to sustainability. How do you differentiate with your colleagues the climate plan from just the sustainability report itself?

Jennifer: It’s a great question and one I got a lot when we were creating the climate transition plan, which is like, “How is this different than a sustainability report? What are you all up to now?” A sustainability report records what has happened, whereas[?] a plan like the climate transition plan tells us where we are going and how we’re going to get there. And that really is the distinction. Also, with a lot of the work happening around CSRD, et cetera, I think sustainability reports, in their essence, are going to be changing. Right now, it’s becoming much more metrics-focused, less storytelling, et cetera. I think the transition plan really still creates this opportunity to talk about how you’re going to pivot going forward, your assets, your operations, your resources to hold temperatures to 1.5 degrees. But they are different.

John: You asked me to ask you, prior to coming on air, we talked about this a little bit. I’m not trying to embarrass you. I’m just going to hold this picture up. This is your promo picture here. That’s a great promo picture. I was mentioning to you that I love this jacket, because this jacket is, to me, the iconic reason that Levi Strauss & Company is a comfort brand across the world. I’m 62. I grew up, all my best friends and all my favorite relatives and everybody have this jacket. I know my mom sometimes listens. She’s still around and pays attention and alive. But let me just be honest, the coolest friends either had a pack of marbles in this pocket here. And then, of course, some of the ultra coolest friends sometimes carry joints in one of the other pockets.

Jennifer: Oh, my goodness.

John: That’s my childhood in a nutshell. That is really one of the coolest jackets out there. It’s iconic and cool. It’s what makes Levi Strauss great, because it makes you feel so comfortable, so immediate. It’s a visceral feeling. It brings me right back to being 14, 15, 16, 17 years old in Queens, New York. Literally, everybody had that jacket. [inaudible], you just weren’t part of the cool kids.

Jennifer: Well, we really believe that people should be living in their Levi’s. We’ve been trying, I think the brand has done an amazing job of keeping it at the center of culture. We’re working with Beyonce. We just dressed Timothée Chalamet in the Bob Dylan documentary. And so how we can keep ourselves in that center of culture and making folks like you put their Levi’s back on, feel like they’re 15 all over again.

John: Talk a little bit about in terms of who’s your favorite, in terms of the recent. You mentioned Beyonce, Timothée Chalamet. Who else is now recently becoming the new faces of Levi Strauss & Company?

Jennifer: We do a lot of different collaborations. This is when I feel like an OG old person, and I’m like, “[inaudible]. Who is this in Instagram? I don’t even know who this person is.” But doing a lot of different collaborations with different artists that we’re curating with. But I think the Beyonce campaign and what she stands for is just so incredibly exciting.

John: Yeah, that’s true. She does. I can imagine also Rich Roll rolling around still in one of these jackets or something like that. That’s like so rich. Talk a little bit about circular economy. As we all know, that’s, to me, one of the everlasting trends. It’s a generational shift that I don’t think is going to slow down in our lifetimes. Hopefully, it’s not, and it’s probably going to continue to accelerate from the linear to the circular economy. What does the shift mean at Levi Strauss & Company and what parts are you involved with that?

Jennifer: Yeah, fantastic question. We have a circular ready by 2026. And some people are going to say, like, “Why not just circular ready?” Well, because it takes a lot to get to be ready to do circular economy. It’s an entire ecosystem shift from the way we make materials to having safe and recycled inputs to having the waste infrastructure available, not just for apparel, but so many brands. We need this waste infrastructure to be able to recycle these materials to get them back into product. So, that’s a lot of what we consider. I won’t go through all the details. You can find them online, but we’ve got a multi-point plan that we feel like we need to get into place in order to really be considered circular-ready. I think ultimately, though, circularity boils down to buying better and wearing longer. We really believe in the durability of our products. We want to encourage consumers to continue to buy. Be intentional in your purchases. Purchase high-quality goods and then make those goods last, with repair, following care guidelines, recommerce. All of those things are critical aspects of the circular economy and where we’ve really been spending a lot of our efforts.

John: That’s wild. What are you most excited about in the years ahead? What gets you the most out of bed in terms of shifts and changes in the evolution of Levi Strauss and both your climate plan and sustainability journey?

Jennifer: I would say, when I took this job and this chance to work at Levi Strauss, it was because I believed that we could decarbonize denim. I do believe that, and a plan like this in place, like that’s going to get us halfway there. I’m super excited about that. In this period of time that we’re in right now, with the acronym SUP, so much kind of disclosure focus right now. This is still this amazing white space as sustainability professionals to put forth a plan of like really focus on impact, and really focused on not just data for data sake and disclosure but around decision useful data and how we can take that to really drive and accelerate progress. So, that is so exciting and I really work with my teams to keep them focused on that and the impact that we’re making.

John: You bring up SUP, that’s a great acronym. Gensler’s out of the SEC. We never got really the final plan done here in the United States with regards to climate and things of that such. Europe is a little bit ahead of us. Asia and other parts of the world are starting to catch up. But what we see is a patchwork quilt of regulations that start to become counterproductive to great people, leaders like you, because you spent so much time and focus on trying to reconcile all these patchwork quilt instead of doing the business, keeping the main thing, the main thing. When do you think there’ll be some sort of harmonization of regulations around the world so people like you can be more untethered to continue to drive sustainability and climate change and the right types of actions at Levi Strauss & Company and other great organizations and brands instead of focusing on regulations that are sometimes at cross principles?

Jennifer: Yeah, well, I mean, harmonization, harmonization, that’s what every brand wants. That’s what we want too. For any government official listening here, we would love to have harmonization. But I do think the EU is making developments. We’re expecting here something in the next week or so, from the [inaudible] of Competition. I think ISSP is doing a really tremendous job in terms of harmonization. There’s 35 plus countries that have adopted that. Now, that doesn’t mean responding to each of those countries is easy, but at least the same content is being asked for. I think, though, that it also is going to require really rethinking internally how you’re set up for success. And how do you set yourself up for success? And so, we’ve been working internally at Levi Strauss to develop a strong ESG controller team. This is new to sustainability professionals, but it’s not new to the accounting world. This is stuff that they lived and breathe forever. And so, we’re just really on this journey. I know it feels painful and accelerated, but I do think we will get to a point where we have as robust and verifiable data as our financial reports are. And that is really going to help us make better decisions. But I think if you can get the right people, or people who love doing data, I mean, there’s so many jobs out there for that right now, that is great. And then if we can get that data to be decision useful, then we can feed that into those people who are developing strategies and working with suppliers around the world.

John: We have a lot of young people that tune into our show around the world, Jennifer, and they’re looking to be you. They’re listening to this and say, “My gosh, what a cool person. She gets to change the world every day, and she’s worked at these amazing brands. And now, she’s at Levi Strauss & Company. What advice do you give the next generation of sustainability and climate change leaders that are out there that really not just want to make a paycheck, but they actually want to make a difference? What kind of advice would you give them as they start their careers now?

Jennifer: I mean, as I started, when we first started talking, John, like, get in the door. I got in doing social compliance auditing because that’s where the field was, and then the field continued to evolve. Right now, the field is in a period of heightened disclosure and data. So, get in, get working on it, keep your head up. I guarantee, there will be additional opportunities within that company or others once you’ve gotten that experience. One of my favorite quotes is, “A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor.” And I think about the kind of turbulent times we’re in right now, but that will lend itself to becoming stronger, smarter, more resilient and more savvy. And the more sustainability professionals we have with those types of traits, the better we’ll be.

John: Awesome. Jennifer, I just want to say thank you for your time today. You’re always welcome back on the Impact Podcast. As you and I know, sustainability has no finish line, so you’re always welcome back here to share the ongoing sustainability and climate plan journey at Levi Strauss & Company. For our listeners and viewers, to find Jennifer and her colleagues and all the great and inspiring work they’re doing in climate and sustainability, please go to www.levistrauss.com. Jennifer, more important than thanking you for the time you spent here today, thank you for all the work you’ve done in your career to make the world a better place.

Jennifer: I appreciate that, John. Thanks so much for the opportunity.

John: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking platform revolutionizing the talent booking industry. With thousands of athletes, celebrities, entrepreneurs, and business leaders, Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent, for speeches, custom experiences, live streams, and much more. For more information on Engage or to book talent today, visit letsengage.com. This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy, and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.