Rob Samuels, an eighth-generation whisky maker and managing director of Maker’s Mark, has led the iconic Kentucky bourbon brand since 2010. Following his father and Chairman Emeritus, Bill Samuels, Jr., Rob continues to advance the company’s mission to craft bourbon that betters the world, while shaping the industry’s future through regenerative agriculture.
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John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. This is a super special edition because it’s really near and dear to my heart. We’ve got Rob Samuels with us today. He’s the eighth-generation whiskey maker and managing director of Maker’s Mark. Welcome, Rob, to the Impact Podcast.
Rob Samuels: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I’m looking forward to the conversation.
John: This is the first time we’ve covered the whiskey industry. It’s an honor to have a family member who’s managing this wonderful business. And also, as I told you off-air before, this is my mom’s favorite brand, this is my wife’s favorite brand. So man, you’ve made me a hero in my own household before we even got going here.
Rob: Well, maybe by midpoint of the session, maybe we’ll crack open a bottle.
John: I’d love that. That would be awesome. That would be awesome. You know, Rob, before we get talking about all the important stuff in this really special announcement we have about the first new brand that you’re releasing in 70 years today, tell me a little about yourself and your family. What was it like to grow up in the Samuels’ family? And how did you come to become the managing director of this amazing and iconic worldwide brand?
Rob: It’s really a fun story, so happy to share it. As you mentioned, I am the eighth generation of the Samuels’ family involved with producing whiskey here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. It were my grandparents, Bill and Margie Samuels, just over 70 years ago, they shared a dream and a vision in many ways that would reimagine what bourbon could be. Prior to Maker’s Mark, the bourbon and American whiskey category had its rightful place down on the bottom shelf. We know that to be true because our family had a distillery in Samuels, Kentucky, for 160 years, passed down through the generations. That distillery, which was named T.W. Samuels, was test of manhood, aggressive, abrasive, almost cowboy whiskey. There was no refinement or elevation in bourbon whiskey. And thankfully, my grandparents had the courage to walk away from that legacy. And symbolic of their commitment to chase a very different vision, they actually lit on fire the 160-year-old legacy family recipe. And they purchased in the center of Kentucky in 1952, they purchased a few hundred acres of agricultural land for $35,000. And for those of your viewership that have actually been on site with us at the distillery, we’re off the beaten path. It’s a bit of a commitment to get to Maker’s Mark. But even 70-plus years ago, my grandparents were very aware and deeply committed to this idea that whiskey is agricultural, that whiskey comes from nature, and they chose our location because of the water source. And today, I think we are the only distillery that I know of in Kentucky where 95% of urban whiskey is made that owns and controls our own water source. And we own all of our watershed. And even in the beginning, my grandparents were very particular about building relationships with the local farmers, the local growers. And we’ve established and maintained those relationships through the decades. But my grandfather was a craftsman. He was really only ever interested in the taste vision. You know, could you create a more refined expression of what bourbon can be? Soft, rich, creamy, balanced, full flavored. Essentially, a bourbon for people that didn’t like bourbon. And while he was obsessed with the flavor vision, it was my grandmother, Margie Samuels, who would do everything else. She’s the one that would create the name, design the bottle. She wanted all of the design elements to be a celebration of his vision for this idea of a handmade bourbon. And when you come see us, we actually have on display my grandmother’s really extensive pewter collection. And it was through the pewter collection and the individual craftsmen and women on their proudest pieces of pewter always make a mark to celebrate handmade.
John: Wow.
Rob: And she suggested that he had gone to such great lengths to produce a handmade bourbon and that he should make his mark. She was also adamant that every label would be printed and torn by hand. And what better way to finish the handmade process than to hand-dip each and every bottle in red ceiling wax with the red tendrils running down the neck of the bottle to celebrate individuality. In 1959, Keeneland Race Force, which to many of us in Kentucky is the preeminent thoroughbred racetrack here in Kentucky. Keeneland purchased the first six cases of Maker’s Mark that were ever sold. Maker’s Mark remained very much a Kentucky secret for 25 years. There was a big moment of discovery in the very early 1980s. We think it was the first time the Wall Street Journal featured a story on a privately held company on the center column front page. The Wall Street Journal told the story about this quirky little distillery in Marion County, Kentucky, that goes against the grain to make its mark. The Wall Street Journal said bourbon distiller Maker’s Mark is a model of purposeful inefficiency, which was exactly the way my grandparents thought about everything. Their goal was never to be the biggest, never to be the most efficient, but you had a craftsman and his wife deeply committed to a flavor vision, and they were also committed to the values in the community. And that’s why it was such a proud moment for not just the family, but our entire team at the distillery when we became the first and only distillery in Kentucky to become certified is a B Corp, public benefit corporation, which I’m sure many of your viewers are aware you have to measure and document every aspect of how you operate. And many of the most higher purpose-minded companies and brands in the world are part of this B Corp community that are thinking longer term and committed not just to sustainability of your own operations, which obviously we are, but very intentional about living those values of sustainability through the supply chain, committing to treating your people really, really well, especially when you’re under pressure and then giving back to the community a meaningful amount of your profit.
John: This is incredible for our listeners and viewers. We’ve got Rob Samuels with us today. He’s the eighth-generation whiskey maker and managing director of Maker’s Mark. To find Rob and to buy his amazing products, please go to makersmark.com. Makersmark.com. We’re not only talking about the history of Maker’s Mark today, we’re also talking about their new product launch, their first new product in 70 years. Rob, first let’s go back. That’s a lot to unpack, and it’s a fascinating journey. Water: Here I am sitting in Fresno, California, arguably the Ag belt of the United States in terms of producing raisins, number one for raisins, olives, cotton, tomatoes, garlic. But water is a massive political issue. It’s been a big political issue here in California, dating back to the Chinatown days, and it’s getting worse. With the water source of the water on your farm that your grandma and grandpa picked out in ’52, what is that water source, and does it remain as untouched as it was back in ’52?
Rob: It does. We have a 12-acre spring-fed lake. Today, we have almost 2,000 acres in Marion County, Kentucky, 1,100 acres of which are contiguous to the distillery. Every drop of Maker’s Mark is produced inside of our National Historic Landmark distillery. Every single bottle is hand-dipped on site. Every single label is hand torn, and the distillery footprint itself makes up less than 3% of our property. So across Star Hill Farm we have our natural water sanctuary, which is made up, of course, of the water source itself. We actually have two lakes, two spring-fed lakes, but we only control all of the watershed. We also have on Star Hill Farm, 450 acres of agriculture where we are partnering with an organization called Understanding Ag and the famed regenerative farming leader, Gabe Brown, to role model at the highest order regenerative farming practices on site, which if you were to visit the distillery here next month, just after we harvest our soft red winter wheat, we plant in the winter and then harvest in the very early summer, we have two shepherds on our property. So we will move into our agricultural land, 600 sheep as part of the rotational grazing program on site at Maker’s Mark. And what’s been really inspiring for me and inspiring for our entire team at the distillery is so many of the conversations in whiskey are oriented around manufacturing. What are the things that a distillery steps of manufacturing process that influences the flavor profile and the character of the whiskey, which, of course that matters. But when you take it back, the whiskey in your glass comes from nature. Maker’s Mark is nature distilled. And over the last 10 to 12 years, we have been working with academics, various research partners to begin to prove that through stewardship of nature, you also push flavor boundaries, and they go together. Stewardship of nature, healthier soil, what’s better for the environment also leads to more nutrients and more flavor intensity. And in the fall of 2023, Maker’s Mark became the first distillery in the world that I know of to have not only our own farm certified by Regenifide, which is the only third-party certifying body acknowledged by the USDA to test at the source in the biological level, the actual health of the soil. So Star Hill Farm is certified by Regenifide. And then today, after 35 years of growth, we now have 10 growers in central Kentucky within 30 miles of the distillery that grow 50,000 acres of agriculture on our behalf. All of our corn, all of our wheat that goes into Maker’s Mark is grown by these 10 growers within 30 miles. And we have been working hand in hand with these 10 partner growers to move away from conventional farming practices to this regenerative model. 99% of the farmland in the world practices conventional farming, which is heavy tilling, is very aggressive and destroys the topsoil, is often monoculture, so you have denuded soil, and is reliant upon all of these chemical and fertilizer inputs, whereas we believe the future needs to be a regenerative future whereby there’s no heavy tilling, crop rotation, and beginning to reduce all of the chemical inputs. And with this regenerative model, not only is it better for the environment, it is better for the grower; the farmer prospers economically. Their land is maintained for decades into the future. All the research we show says that there are only about 50 harvests left before all of the topsoil, on average, is completely gone. But it’s this connection between stewardship of nature and equals more flavor, and they go together.
John: I want to understand now, obviously it’s your grandma and grandpa on your dad’s side, how was it growing up in this family? And when did you get the bug? And when did you start working in the family business? And how did that evolve over the years to you becoming the managing director?
Rob: Thank you, thank you. My earliest memory, I’ll never forget it. I was probably six or seven years old, hand in hand with my grandfather, walking into the still house, which, for those of you watching that have been to the distillery, is a magical, visually stimulating environment. My grandmother actually designed the distillery, designed the campus not to be industrial, but it feels almost like a quaint little winery. It feels much more personal. But I was in awe. In that moment, all those years ago, I remember asking my grandfather just, you know, about the Cypress fermenters, about the copper still, about the sensory that was wafting through the air. And you know what he did, I’ll never forget it, because he said, all that’s important, but he went around and introduced me to all of the team members working in the distillery. He said, they’re the ones that make it matter. I’m so proud that here we are 70 years later. If you were on site with us at Maker’s Mark, the setting is magical. It’s a stunningly beautiful campus. The property itself is just so healthy and vibrant, but it truly is the people that make it matter. And I love the emphasis within B Corp certification that B Corp puts on really treating your team members really, really well. I worked every job in the distillery on campus growing up, but went away to school. And when I came back, I remember asking my father, who was the longtime president of Maker’s Mark, I asked him for a job, and he looked at me and he said, Well, what can you do?
John: Wow.
Rob: And I wasn’t prepared to answer that question. So he actually gave me some great advice. I actually went away, left Kentucky, and worked for a different company in our industry for 11 years.
John: Wow.
Rob: And it was an amazing experience for me, I must say, because, of course, all of the family members have a deep respect and admiration for the family legacy.
John: Sure.
Rob: But do you want to make it your life’s work? That is a very different question. Do you really love the industry? And I proved to myself that I loved the industry. And my goal was to be invited back. I never wanted my father to feel like he had to hire a son.
John: Right.
Rob: And finally, he invited me back in January 2006. It was just great fun. He’s still chairman emeritus. I talk to him every single day. He’s quite a character and tons of fun. He’s the creator of Maker’s Mark 46. It was really special because you hear these horror stories about family dynamics, not always jelling when they work together, but he and I worked brilliantly together. And I think the reason we work so well together is we have a shared vision for the future.
John: That’s great.
Rob: And we are very clear on the things that we believe in.
John: How did he, not only did you and your dad obviously enjoy, you know, catch the entrepreneurial bug and the capitalism bug, which are alive and well here in this great country we live in, but where did you catch the bug or was it because of the inspiration of your grandma and grandpa and the choices they made that you both fell in love with the environment and the connection between the environment and Ag to the amazing product that you also created?
Rob: Well, I think you see it with family companies that have a sense of community and giving back. I think family companies oftentimes think much longer term.
John: Right.
Rob: Companies that think long term, you know, we don’t have a three-year plan, we have a 100-year vision.
John: Wow.
Rob: So our goal today is, of course, we want to be reasonably competitive in the short term. But the real emphasis is on what are the things that we need to commit to brilliantly to stay in business for the next hundred years. And when you have that vision for the long term, you just make different decisions across everything that matters. And part of that is making time for the community. I mean, I think my father, who was president of Maker’s Mark for 35 years, I think if he went back and reflected, I bet he spent more than 50% of his time on non-Maker’s Mark topics. He’d shared 25 boards over his career.
John: Wow. Wow. That’s a commitment. That’s a real commitment to not only making a living to support your family, but giving back and making an impact everywhere that he could, everywhere that he could. So I’m sure that rubbed off massively on you to be the same in terms of how you carry yourself, in terms of how you treat your employees, and how you also see the greater world around you.
Rob: Even though my grandparents are no longer with us, their vision remains the North Star for everything that matters, from the team dynamic and how we treat the team, the culture, this obsession with quality and consistency. I mean, Maker’s Mark is recognized as the first craft distillery in America. How do you take the first craft distillery in America? For 30 years, we had no growth, but for the last 40 years, we’ve sold every drop we’ve had available every year for 40 years. And not just how do you grow, but how do you stay true to who you are? How do you stay authentic as a global brand? And we’ve done it. I think we’re one of the few brands in our industry that has done that. And my father made a courageous decision back in the mid-1990s when it was finally time to expand our distillery. He said, We’re not going to expand like most manufacturers. Most manufacturers, when you finally reach growth and it’s time to expand, it’s how do you make more and reduce your cost base? We didn’t do that. My dad actually blew out the back of the original distillery and built a mirror image of our original distillery. So he built a second distillery identical to the original distillery and, you know, same equipment, same process, same scale helps manage consistency.
John: Oh, my God. Can you get… Yeah, go ahead. I’m sorry. Go ahead.
Rob: In the beginning, we had 11 team members at Maker’s Mark. Today, we have almost 400. In the beginning, we had two team members hand-dipping bottles. Today, we have 60. Only distillery that I know of in the world that actually rotates barrels through the maturation process. The intense ageing occurs at the top of the warehouse because heat rises. After two summers, our tasting panel tell us when it’s time and we rotate the barrels. So each barrel is matured the optimal way consistently over time. But it’s horribly inefficient to do it.
John: Rob, can you give a little tutorial at 30,000 feet for our listeners and viewers who are not exposed to the importance of and the terminology of regenerative agriculture? What does that mean? And let’s then talk more about the interrelationship between quality, taste, consistency that you mentioned earlier with regard to your wonderful products.
Rob: Again, it’s been a really eye-opening journey for our family and humbling in many ways because we’ve made whiskey for so very long, but taking it back to try to understand where flavor comes from, what’s the role of soil health in driving flavor, how have farming practices changed over time? How have varietals evolved over time? And over the last 11 or 12 years, we’ve built this network of academics, researchers, artisanal bakers, and clearly what we believe the future needs to be, not just for environmental reasons, but to grow more nutrient-rich, flavorful food, we believe that the future needs to be a regenerative future. And as I mentioned earlier, the vast majority of the farmland, not just in this country, but all over the world, over the last 50 years, has moved to heavy industrial farming practices, which is heavy tilling and destroys the top soil, is oftentimes monoculture, so there’s no biodiversity, and is reliant upon chemical inputs and fertilizers. And for anyone that’s really, really interested, there’s a wonderful film that was just launched on Earth Day called Common Ground that’s airing on Amazon. And Common Ground is the sequel to a film called Kiss the Ground, which lays out this really compelling vision that the only real way to combat global warming is this regenerative farming model where you sequester the carbon in the soil. This sequel, that’s just launched this week, Common Ground, is a call to action for businesses to lead the way. The government has its role, but it’s a call to action for the private sector in companies and brands to embrace regenerative agriculture. I’m very proud that Maker’s Mark was the first company to commit to have 100% of our agricultural input source from regenerative certified partners.
John: Wow. That’s awesome.
Rob: Regenerative agriculture is all about the healthy soil, the biodiversity of the soil, which leads to competitive yields, leads to more nutrients, more flavor, and is so much better for the environment. Not just the global warming and sequestering the carbon, but trying to minimize all of the pollutants in the water table through conventional farming.
John: The Common Ground people, I believe, is run by the Kiss the Ground people.
Rob: That’s right, yes, Kiss the Ground, that’s right.
John: And Kiss the Ground was founded by a young man who is a brother of, there’s a plant-based restaurant chain on the West Coast called Sage, and Molly Engelhardt owned that, and her brother is the guy who founded Kiss the Ground. And I know him, I’ve met him, and it’s just a wonderful organization. But here’s where I get confused myself, Rob. And I’ve been doing this 16 years, and I’ve had so many amazing, great people like you that are visionaries that not only make a real nice living but also make a huge impact on this planet. It’s all the evidence and sciences in on regenerative agriculture. Why is it still more of an anomaly of great people and entrepreneurs like you that are practicing these practices, and why haven’t other agricultural entities bought on or followed suit? Why is there a break there? Why aren’t people following more of what you’re doing?
Rob: The film Common Ground really gets into your point.
John: Okay.
Rob: And it’s conventional farming is deeply embedded in every corner of the agricultural system. I do believe that it’s going to take brands and entrepreneurs to be a big part of leading the change. There’s a lot of education that needs to come along with that. And Gabe Brown, who’s prominently featured in Kiss the Ground, probably the most prominent regenerative farming leader in America. Gabe and a small group of his peers that have embraced regenerative farming and have lived it started an organization called Understanding Ag. And Understanding Ag, their mission is to partner with growers and their families to really understand the path and the model to move to regenerative farming for all of the reasons we’ve discussed. And Gabe Brown travels to Kentucky twice a year and has seminars with our 10 growers, with all of their families, their team members, and he is mentoring them on this regenerative farming journey. So Gabe is a resource, yes, to Maker’s Mark, but almost more importantly, to our 10 growers. And when you think about the future and what, you know, the Star Hill Farm Whiskey that we are just now beginning to launch, it’s the first ever new brand in the history of Maker’s Mark. This is not a bourbon, it’s a wheat whiskey.
John: No corn.
Rob: Star Hill Farm Whiskey is a celebration of nature as the maker. This is a blend of seven and eight-year-old whiskeys, but the vision here is to achieve flavor through regenerative agriculture. And we are donating the proceeds from Star Hill Farm Whiskey every single year to be a part of advancing regenerative farming practices all over the world. And over the next three years, this first three-year time period, we want to adopt 1 million acres of farmland across Kentucky, our home state, New York state, and the United Kingdom. And we are making available to hundreds of growers across these three territories for Gabe Brown and Understanding Ag to mentor growers, hundreds of farmers in New York, Kentucky, the United Kingdom, so they can embrace the same regenerative farming journey that we’ve been on. And then we want to use the profile of the Maker’s Mark brand to bring these stories to life in the restaurants, bars, hotels, to bring awareness to why regenerative farming needs to be an important part of the future.
John: As I shared with you off-air, my mom, Arlene Shegerian, and my wife, Tammy Shegerian, who are not big drinkers, but whenever we do go out and they have a cocktail, their first choice is Maker’s Mark. If we were together today, Rob, in person, and we poured ourselves one of your classic Maker’s Mark and then the Star Hill, talk to me a little bit about the differentiation and taste profiles and things of that such.
Rob: Classic Maker’s Mark is rich, creamy, balanced. It’s got a lot of bright cherry. It’s very much front of palette. It’s bottled at 90 proof or 45% alcohol by volume. The ingredients as a bourbon whiskey is for Maker’s Mark 70% corn, 16% soft red winter wheat, 14% barley malt. This Star Hill Farm Whiskey, you can taste organoleptically the flavor sort of DNA between the two, but the Star Hill Farm Whiskey has a lot of really rich, bright characteristics. It has a lovely dark chocolate with like almost like a dark chocolate covered cherry in sort of this rich toffee characteristic. But it definitely carries the DNA of the Maker’s Mark brand, but just pushes flavor in a bit of a different direction. I’m very proud of the whiskey itself, and proud, I think, as the eighth generation in our family, that there’s a higher purpose at the center of this bottle of whiskey. That this bottle of whiskey is the vector’s point out to being a part of advancing regenerative agriculture in partnership with leading hotels, bars, and many of the growers in creating a market in the important cities of the world for regenerative farming practices and regenerative ingredients.
John: Did I hear you right? A portion of the proceeds is going to go back to buy those million acres, or all the proceeds. How does that work?
Rob: We’re not buying the acres. We’re donating effectively all of the proceeds from Star Hill Farm Whiskey to fund all of the education for hundreds of farms in Kentucky, the UK, and New York. And then providing all of the mentorship with Gabe Brown and Understanding Ag for all of those growers. And then we will also fund the Regenified certification for all of those growers.
John: That’s amazing. When does…
Rob: And then we want to use the profile of the Maker’s Mark brand to bring visibility in the great bars, hotels, restaurants, to bring these stories and these ingredients to the guests to raise awareness.
John: 100%. When does the Star Hill Farm Whiskey go on sale, and where can people find it first as they start looking for it after they hear this show?
Rob: Middle of May, around the middle of May, the bottles should be showing up in leading package stores. And for anyone that has a neighborhood package store, it’s fairly limited. So you definitely probably want to call ahead and ask that they set aside a bottle for you. It’s going to be an annual release. So, this time of the year, every year, we will release that year’s allocation.
John: Rollout first is in the US?
Rob: In the United States, the United Kingdom, and then in Australia as well.
John: Got it. Well, I know, like I said, I have Japanese business partners that are partners of mine, and I’ve already seen them drink Maker’s Mark and how much they love Maker’s Mark. And they’re big on whiskey, you know that over there. I’m in Tokyo five, six times a year. They love whiskey, Japanese whiskey, but I’ll tell you, they’re big fans of yours. So I’m going to be giving them as gifts, this Star Hill Farm Whiskey. How many bottles a year, approximately, are you going to produce? How many do you start with, and then what do you foresee in the years to come?
Rob: It’s never going to be a gigantic brand. It’ll steadily grow over time. It’s fairly limited. And all of the agriculture that goes into producing this whiskey is grown on our farm. So we have 450 acres of agricultural land on Star Hill Farm where we’re growing all of the wheat and all of the barley. And we’re role modeling regenerative farming practices, which is why we have the two shepherds and the 600 rotational grazing program. But it’s the agriculture from Star Hill Farm land that we own, we control, practicing the highest level of regenerative farming practices that goes into the Star Hill Farm whiskey each and every year. And we’re proud, you see more and more customers all over the world that want transparency and traceability with what they purchase. And there is a new certification mark for whiskey makers that qualify where any distillery or brand that owns or controls how their ingredients are grown, if they ferment, distill, bottle, and age all of their whiskey, they can become an estate whiskey. It’s all about transparency and traceability, knowing exactly where the ingredients come from, and proud that Star Hill Farm Whiskey is the very first certified estate whiskey in the world.
John: It’s incredible. You’re such a forward-thinking person with your dad on the vision of the company, but I know you also are so steeped in the history. As you release this new brand Star Hill Farm Whiskey, is it with such delight that you know down from the heavens above, your grandma and grandfather are so darn proud of what you guys are doing right now?
Rob: I think they would be very proud. I really do. Even though it’s a different style of American whiskey, it’s still very much born out of the foundations and the DNA of their vision. Maker’s Mark is a wheated bourbon. Our flavoring grain is soft red winter wheat. I actually have the tasting notes that my grandmother made back in the early 1950s as they were baking loads of bread in their family kitchen, experimenting with different potential flavoring grains. I mean, it’s a cookbook full of all of these heirloom varietals and all these different things. And as we started this journey, trying to understand where flavor comes from and how farming practices have changed, how varietals have changed, we did the same thing. You know, what is the flavor range of possibilities that can be created through wheat? How much has flavor changed in wheat? And the answer was a lot. Up until about 60 years ago, all wheat was grown locally. And there was a moment in time where a very respected Nobel Prize-winning scientist cross-bred varietals of wheat that, for the very first time, were shelf stable. So you could ship it all over the world and feed the starving populations of the world, but he took the flavor out. And we’ve been on a mission to bring the flavor back. And what we’ve learned is, yes, modern varietals of wheat will help drive more flavor, but we believe more than half of the flavor comes from the health of the soil. And the health of the soil is achieved through stewardship of nature.
John: That’s incredible. You know, Rob, as you and I know, there’s a generation of young people. I’m 62 now, but there’s a young generation. My children are 38 and 31. And there’s a whole new generation of adults that enjoy your great product, Maker’s Mark, historically. Now they’re going to enjoy your new product as well. Talk a little bit about, but they care about, like you just said, transparency, impact, circularity, sustainability. How do you market to that new generation, realizing your old generation loves you, still loves you because of the quality, and they’re very tied to your brand? People like my mom, people like my wife, they love your brand. But now, how do you slightly adjust your marketing to go after the next generation of people who care about the exact topics you’re talking about today?
Rob: We believe doing good is good for business. We see clearly that more and more customers want to choose brands where they have shared values. And our marketing plan is really no more complicated than telling stories. So many brands in every category, not just in distilled spirits, so many products are invented by marketers. You peel back the layers, and there’s just not a lot there. We’re blessed that our brand came from the heart and soul of a craftsman, and it’s real, it’s authentic. There’s layers and layers and layers. And we love sharing the depth of who Maker’s Mark is, whether it’s with folks that make the pilgrimage to our distillery. We were the first distillery in Kentucky to formally host visitors.
John: What?
Rob: Yes. My grandmother, Margie Samuels, would go on to become the first female ever from a distillery to be inducted into the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame.
John: Oh, that’s awesome.
Rob: And not only is she credited with designing maybe the most iconic bourbon whiskey package, which has never changed. We have the first bottle, and it looks exactly like you would see on the back bar at your local restaurant. But she had this vision of designing the campus and the distillery not to be purely functional, but to balance function and form, to be personal. Let’s invite people that are interested to come experience it, to come live it. There’s nothing more personal than when you invite a friend to your home. And that was her vision. So we hosted visitors at Maker’s Mark since day one, since the very beginning. And today, the distillery is a national historic landmark. Our vision for the distillery in Star Hill Farm is to become the most culturally rich, endearing, and environmentally responsible home place of any brand in the world. So when you come visit, you spend not an hour sort of ushering through the distillery, but you spend a full day in nature, experiencing the leadership and nature that drives flavor. I was told we have the second-most-extensive modern art collection in Kentucky.
John: Really?
Rob: She had a wonderful eye for design and loved design details. And one of the ways we celebrate the legacy and vision of our founders is through all of these artistic collaborations. So we have dozens and dozens and dozens of handmade artwork woven through the experience. Actually, in July of this year, July 1st through the end of December, we are hosting a Dale Chihuly exhibition at Maker’s Mark. So if you’re familiar with the renowned glass artist, Dale Chihuly, we’ll have 12 to 15 of those large-scale, iconic installations woven through the campus and the gardens in nature, in our limestone whiskey cellar.
John: That’s so awesome. Rob, you’ve already sold; you sell your products all around the world. It’s an iconic brand. You’re like literally the American dream in real life. You’re right out of a storybook figure in terms of entrepreneurial eighth-generation and just driving it forward. Where do you go from here? Besides the exciting release of the first new product in 70 years, Star Hill Farm Whiskey, what’s your vision? You’re still young. What’s your vision for the years ahead, both for Maker’s Mark and for Star Hill Farm Whiskey?
Rob: It’s so ironic that our co-founders in the beginning didn’t have a commercial or business ambition. Who starts a business without having a commercial ambition? But if you went back in time and asked my grandfather what success looked like, the P&L was not high on his list.
John: That’s so funny.
Rob: If you’ve ever met a craftsman or a craftswoman, they always obsess over whatever it is they’re making.
John: It’s true.
Rob: So, you know, while he didn’t have a commercial ambition, it’s so ironic that today they are credited for changing the course of our industry. And it was an awesome moment. A couple of years ago, Food and Wine Magazine did a survey with 30 of the most respected American whiskey leaders, master distillers, brand owners, whiskey writers, and they were asked to rank the most important bourbon brands of all time. And all but two said Maker’s Mark is the most important bourbon brand that’s ever been made. And the journalist that sort of summarized the findings said that the co-founders of Maker’s Mark chose to reimagine a future for bourbon when it didn’t look like bourbon had a future. When my grandparents were starting, Bourbon was taking a nosedive. It was declining year on year. But here we are. I think we have an opportunity to take this brand all over the world. The values of Maker’s Mark, the organoleptics of Maker’s Mark, the higher purpose of Maker’s Mark, it resonates with consumers all over the world just like it does here in our backyard. So we intend to continue following our founders’ North Star as the vision for the brand. Everything is perfectly unreasonable in all of our pursuits. And we love sharing what we do, whether it’s at the distillery, I’m going to London in a couple of weeks to share the first sips of Star Hill Farm Whiskey. And the authenticity of this brand resonates with folks all over the world.
John: Like I said, my partners in Japan turned me on to other great whiskeys over there, and they take great pride. I wouldn’t be shocked if you told me that other whisky manufacturers around the world call you and ask you for advice or guidance in terms of all the things you talked about today in terms of regenerative agriculture, sustainability, impact, giving back to the community. I mean, I’m sure your wisdom people are seeking that at all times.
Rob: What we’ve been told by Regenified, which is the third party that certifies all of our agricultural land as regeneratively through regenerative farming practices. After we announced our Regenified certification, the number of other distilleries and other companies that reached out to learn more jumped up dramatically. And I think if we can do it, others can do it. And if we can do it at scale, we’re at scale today. If we can do this at scale, others can as well.
John: Can you hold up both of your original Maker’s Mark and your Star Hill? I want you to show our… First of all, I want you to show again how each one is poured and unique in terms of the pour on the seal. I love that. That red seal is so iconic.
Rob: This is the first bottle of Maker’s Mark.
John: No.
Rob: This is the very first bottle of Maker’s Mark.
John: That’s crazy.
Rob: Dated May 8, 1958.
John: It looks like it’s just the back of the bar and one of my favorite bars here. That’s awesome.
Rob: And then I showed you the Star Hill Farm Whiskey.
John: Yeah. Star Hill Farms. Yeah.
Rob: Star Hill Farm and Wheat Whisky. We’re proud of both of them and proud of the higher purpose, and just proud to share. And I appreciate you making the time to connect and come see us. Open invitation for you and your viewers to come see us.
John: Well, Rob, first of all, I’m going to bring my family down there in the future. I’m going to take you up on that. Second of all, I’m going to buy some of your Star Hill Farm Whiskey and give it as gifts this year, because I really love, before I even knew you were giving back to profits for education purposes for more regenerative agriculture, I just love an eighth-generation, a family member, taking what their grandparents crafted with all their blood, sweat, and tears, and their dad, and now you’re taking it to new levels and new heights. We’ve got to celebrate that in America. You’re a part of it. On the other side of the technology geniuses out there like the Elon Musks, which good for them and we’re proud of them too, we’re just proud of people like you that are just amazing, great Americans that take great legacies and take it to new heights. And so, Rob, I just want to say thank you for your time today. Thank you for all you’re doing. For our listeners and viewers to find Rob again, you could go to makersmark.com, makersmark.com, and all the bars, restaurants, and other great retail outlets that sell these wonderful products. You’ll find it, and as you said earlier, Star Hill Whiskey’s coming out in mid-May. Get it while it’s out because it’s a one-time-a-year deal where they send these bottles out. It’s not going to be for sale as widely as your regular Maker’s Mark. And Rob, thank you not only for spending almost an hour with us today, more important, thank you, your father, your grandparents, your entire family, for just making the world a better place.
Rob: Thank you, sir.
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John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. This is a super special edition because it’s really near and dear to my heart. We’ve got Rob Samuels with us today. He’s the eighth-generation whiskey maker and managing director of Maker’s Mark. Welcome, Rob, to the Impact Podcast.
Rob Samuels: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I’m looking forward to the conversation.
John: This is the first time we’ve covered the whiskey industry. It’s an honor to have a family member who’s managing this wonderful business. And also, as I told you off-air before, this is my mom’s favorite brand, this is my wife’s favorite brand. So man, you’ve made me a hero in my own household before we even got going here.
Rob: Well, maybe by midpoint of the session, maybe we’ll crack open a bottle.
John: I’d love that. That would be awesome. That would be awesome. You know, Rob, before we get talking about all the important stuff in this really special announcement we have about the first new brand that you’re releasing in 70 years today, tell me a little about yourself and your family. What was it like to grow up in the Samuels’ family? And how did you come to become the managing director of this amazing and iconic worldwide brand?
Rob: It’s really a fun story, so happy to share it. As you mentioned, I am the eighth generation of the Samuels’ family involved with producing whiskey here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. It were my grandparents, Bill and Margie Samuels, just over 70 years ago, they shared a dream and a vision in many ways that would reimagine what bourbon could be. Prior to Maker’s Mark, the bourbon and American whiskey category had its rightful place down on the bottom shelf. We know that to be true because our family had a distillery in Samuels, Kentucky, for 160 years, passed down through the generations. That distillery, which was named T.W. Samuels, was test of manhood, aggressive, abrasive, almost cowboy whiskey. There was no refinement or elevation in bourbon whiskey. And thankfully, my grandparents had the courage to walk away from that legacy. And symbolic of their commitment to chase a very different vision, they actually lit on fire the 160-year-old legacy family recipe. And they purchased in the center of Kentucky in 1952, they purchased a few hundred acres of agricultural land for $35,000. And for those of your viewership that have actually been on site with us at the distillery, we’re off the beaten path. It’s a bit of a commitment to get to Maker’s Mark. But even 70-plus years ago, my grandparents were very aware and deeply committed to this idea that whiskey is agricultural, that whiskey comes from nature, and they chose our location because of the water source. And today, I think we are the only distillery that I know of in Kentucky where 95% of urban whiskey is made that owns and controls our own water source. And we own all of our watershed. And even in the beginning, my grandparents were very particular about building relationships with the local farmers, the local growers. And we’ve established and maintained those relationships through the decades. But my grandfather was a craftsman. He was really only ever interested in the taste vision. You know, could you create a more refined expression of what bourbon can be? Soft, rich, creamy, balanced, full flavored. Essentially, a bourbon for people that didn’t like bourbon. And while he was obsessed with the flavor vision, it was my grandmother, Margie Samuels, who would do everything else. She’s the one that would create the name, design the bottle. She wanted all of the design elements to be a celebration of his vision for this idea of a handmade bourbon. And when you come see us, we actually have on display my grandmother’s really extensive pewter collection. And it was through the pewter collection and the individual craftsmen and women on their proudest pieces of pewter always make a mark to celebrate handmade.
John: Wow.
Rob: And she suggested that he had gone to such great lengths to produce a handmade bourbon and that he should make his mark. She was also adamant that every label would be printed and torn by hand. And what better way to finish the handmade process than to hand-dip each and every bottle in red ceiling wax with the red tendrils running down the neck of the bottle to celebrate individuality. In 1959, Keeneland Race Force, which to many of us in Kentucky is the preeminent thoroughbred racetrack here in Kentucky. Keeneland purchased the first six cases of Maker’s Mark that were ever sold. Maker’s Mark remained very much a Kentucky secret for 25 years. There was a big moment of discovery in the very early 1980s. We think it was the first time the Wall Street Journal featured a story on a privately held company on the center column front page. The Wall Street Journal told the story about this quirky little distillery in Marion County, Kentucky, that goes against the grain to make its mark. The Wall Street Journal said bourbon distiller Maker’s Mark is a model of purposeful inefficiency, which was exactly the way my grandparents thought about everything. Their goal was never to be the biggest, never to be the most efficient, but you had a craftsman and his wife deeply committed to a flavor vision, and they were also committed to the values in the community. And that’s why it was such a proud moment for not just the family, but our entire team at the distillery when we became the first and only distillery in Kentucky to become certified is a B Corp, public benefit corporation, which I’m sure many of your viewers are aware you have to measure and document every aspect of how you operate. And many of the most higher purpose-minded companies and brands in the world are part of this B Corp community that are thinking longer term and committed not just to sustainability of your own operations, which obviously we are, but very intentional about living those values of sustainability through the supply chain, committing to treating your people really, really well, especially when you’re under pressure and then giving back to the community a meaningful amount of your profit.
John: This is incredible for our listeners and viewers. We’ve got Rob Samuels with us today. He’s the eighth-generation whiskey maker and managing director of Maker’s Mark. To find Rob and to buy his amazing products, please go to makersmark.com. Makersmark.com. We’re not only talking about the history of Maker’s Mark today, we’re also talking about their new product launch, their first new product in 70 years. Rob, first let’s go back. That’s a lot to unpack, and it’s a fascinating journey. Water: Here I am sitting in Fresno, California, arguably the Ag belt of the United States in terms of producing raisins, number one for raisins, olives, cotton, tomatoes, garlic. But water is a massive political issue. It’s been a big political issue here in California, dating back to the Chinatown days, and it’s getting worse. With the water source of the water on your farm that your grandma and grandpa picked out in ’52, what is that water source, and does it remain as untouched as it was back in ’52?
Rob: It does. We have a 12-acre spring-fed lake. Today, we have almost 2,000 acres in Marion County, Kentucky, 1,100 acres of which are contiguous to the distillery. Every drop of Maker’s Mark is produced inside of our National Historic Landmark distillery. Every single bottle is hand-dipped on site. Every single label is hand torn, and the distillery footprint itself makes up less than 3% of our property. So across Star Hill Farm we have our natural water sanctuary, which is made up, of course, of the water source itself. We actually have two lakes, two spring-fed lakes, but we only control all of the watershed. We also have on Star Hill Farm, 450 acres of agriculture where we are partnering with an organization called Understanding Ag and the famed regenerative farming leader, Gabe Brown, to role model at the highest order regenerative farming practices on site, which if you were to visit the distillery here next month, just after we harvest our soft red winter wheat, we plant in the winter and then harvest in the very early summer, we have two shepherds on our property. So we will move into our agricultural land, 600 sheep as part of the rotational grazing program on site at Maker’s Mark. And what’s been really inspiring for me and inspiring for our entire team at the distillery is so many of the conversations in whiskey are oriented around manufacturing. What are the things that a distillery steps of manufacturing process that influences the flavor profile and the character of the whiskey, which, of course that matters. But when you take it back, the whiskey in your glass comes from nature. Maker’s Mark is nature distilled. And over the last 10 to 12 years, we have been working with academics, various research partners to begin to prove that through stewardship of nature, you also push flavor boundaries, and they go together. Stewardship of nature, healthier soil, what’s better for the environment also leads to more nutrients and more flavor intensity. And in the fall of 2023, Maker’s Mark became the first distillery in the world that I know of to have not only our own farm certified by Regenifide, which is the only third-party certifying body acknowledged by the USDA to test at the source in the biological level, the actual health of the soil. So Star Hill Farm is certified by Regenifide. And then today, after 35 years of growth, we now have 10 growers in central Kentucky within 30 miles of the distillery that grow 50,000 acres of agriculture on our behalf. All of our corn, all of our wheat that goes into Maker’s Mark is grown by these 10 growers within 30 miles. And we have been working hand in hand with these 10 partner growers to move away from conventional farming practices to this regenerative model. 99% of the farmland in the world practices conventional farming, which is heavy tilling, is very aggressive and destroys the topsoil, is often monoculture, so you have denuded soil, and is reliant upon all of these chemical and fertilizer inputs, whereas we believe the future needs to be a regenerative future whereby there’s no heavy tilling, crop rotation, and beginning to reduce all of the chemical inputs. And with this regenerative model, not only is it better for the environment, it is better for the grower; the farmer prospers economically. Their land is maintained for decades into the future. All the research we show says that there are only about 50 harvests left before all of the topsoil, on average, is completely gone. But it’s this connection between stewardship of nature and equals more flavor, and they go together.
John: I want to understand now, obviously it’s your grandma and grandpa on your dad’s side, how was it growing up in this family? And when did you get the bug? And when did you start working in the family business? And how did that evolve over the years to you becoming the managing director?
Rob: Thank you, thank you. My earliest memory, I’ll never forget it. I was probably six or seven years old, hand in hand with my grandfather, walking into the still house, which, for those of you watching that have been to the distillery, is a magical, visually stimulating environment. My grandmother actually designed the distillery, designed the campus not to be industrial, but it feels almost like a quaint little winery. It feels much more personal. But I was in awe. In that moment, all those years ago, I remember asking my grandfather just, you know, about the Cypress fermenters, about the copper still, about the sensory that was wafting through the air. And you know what he did, I’ll never forget it, because he said, all that’s important, but he went around and introduced me to all of the team members working in the distillery. He said, they’re the ones that make it matter. I’m so proud that here we are 70 years later. If you were on site with us at Maker’s Mark, the setting is magical. It’s a stunningly beautiful campus. The property itself is just so healthy and vibrant, but it truly is the people that make it matter. And I love the emphasis within B Corp certification that B Corp puts on really treating your team members really, really well. I worked every job in the distillery on campus growing up, but went away to school. And when I came back, I remember asking my father, who was the longtime president of Maker’s Mark, I asked him for a job, and he looked at me and he said, Well, what can you do?
John: Wow.
Rob: And I wasn’t prepared to answer that question. So he actually gave me some great advice. I actually went away, left Kentucky, and worked for a different company in our industry for 11 years.
John: Wow.
Rob: And it was an amazing experience for me, I must say, because, of course, all of the family members have a deep respect and admiration for the family legacy.
John: Sure.
Rob: But do you want to make it your life’s work? That is a very different question. Do you really love the industry? And I proved to myself that I loved the industry. And my goal was to be invited back. I never wanted my father to feel like he had to hire a son.
John: Right.
Rob: And finally, he invited me back in January 2006. It was just great fun. He’s still chairman emeritus. I talk to him every single day. He’s quite a character and tons of fun. He’s the creator of Maker’s Mark 46. It was really special because you hear these horror stories about family dynamics, not always jelling when they work together, but he and I worked brilliantly together. And I think the reason we work so well together is we have a shared vision for the future.
John: That’s great.
Rob: And we are very clear on the things that we believe in.
John: How did he, not only did you and your dad obviously enjoy, you know, catch the entrepreneurial bug and the capitalism bug, which are alive and well here in this great country we live in, but where did you catch the bug or was it because of the inspiration of your grandma and grandpa and the choices they made that you both fell in love with the environment and the connection between the environment and Ag to the amazing product that you also created?
Rob: Well, I think you see it with family companies that have a sense of community and giving back. I think family companies oftentimes think much longer term.
John: Right.
Rob: Companies that think long term, you know, we don’t have a three-year plan, we have a 100-year vision.
John: Wow.
Rob: So our goal today is, of course, we want to be reasonably competitive in the short term. But the real emphasis is on what are the things that we need to commit to brilliantly to stay in business for the next hundred years. And when you have that vision for the long term, you just make different decisions across everything that matters. And part of that is making time for the community. I mean, I think my father, who was president of Maker’s Mark for 35 years, I think if he went back and reflected, I bet he spent more than 50% of his time on non-Maker’s Mark topics. He’d shared 25 boards over his career.
John: Wow. Wow. That’s a commitment. That’s a real commitment to not only making a living to support your family, but giving back and making an impact everywhere that he could, everywhere that he could. So I’m sure that rubbed off massively on you to be the same in terms of how you carry yourself, in terms of how you treat your employees, and how you also see the greater world around you.
Rob: Even though my grandparents are no longer with us, their vision remains the North Star for everything that matters, from the team dynamic and how we treat the team, the culture, this obsession with quality and consistency. I mean, Maker’s Mark is recognized as the first craft distillery in America. How do you take the first craft distillery in America? For 30 years, we had no growth, but for the last 40 years, we’ve sold every drop we’ve had available every year for 40 years. And not just how do you grow, but how do you stay true to who you are? How do you stay authentic as a global brand? And we’ve done it. I think we’re one of the few brands in our industry that has done that. And my father made a courageous decision back in the mid-1990s when it was finally time to expand our distillery. He said, We’re not going to expand like most manufacturers. Most manufacturers, when you finally reach growth and it’s time to expand, it’s how do you make more and reduce your cost base? We didn’t do that. My dad actually blew out the back of the original distillery and built a mirror image of our original distillery. So he built a second distillery identical to the original distillery and, you know, same equipment, same process, same scale helps manage consistency.
John: Oh, my God. Can you get… Yeah, go ahead. I’m sorry. Go ahead.
Rob: In the beginning, we had 11 team members at Maker’s Mark. Today, we have almost 400. In the beginning, we had two team members hand-dipping bottles. Today, we have 60. Only distillery that I know of in the world that actually rotates barrels through the maturation process. The intense ageing occurs at the top of the warehouse because heat rises. After two summers, our tasting panel tell us when it’s time and we rotate the barrels. So each barrel is matured the optimal way consistently over time. But it’s horribly inefficient to do it.
John: Rob, can you give a little tutorial at 30,000 feet for our listeners and viewers who are not exposed to the importance of and the terminology of regenerative agriculture? What does that mean? And let’s then talk more about the interrelationship between quality, taste, consistency that you mentioned earlier with regard to your wonderful products.
Rob: Again, it’s been a really eye-opening journey for our family and humbling in many ways because we’ve made whiskey for so very long, but taking it back to try to understand where flavor comes from, what’s the role of soil health in driving flavor, how have farming practices changed over time? How have varietals evolved over time? And over the last 11 or 12 years, we’ve built this network of academics, researchers, artisanal bakers, and clearly what we believe the future needs to be, not just for environmental reasons, but to grow more nutrient-rich, flavorful food, we believe that the future needs to be a regenerative future. And as I mentioned earlier, the vast majority of the farmland, not just in this country, but all over the world, over the last 50 years, has moved to heavy industrial farming practices, which is heavy tilling and destroys the top soil, is oftentimes monoculture, so there’s no biodiversity, and is reliant upon chemical inputs and fertilizers. And for anyone that’s really, really interested, there’s a wonderful film that was just launched on Earth Day called Common Ground that’s airing on Amazon. And Common Ground is the sequel to a film called Kiss the Ground, which lays out this really compelling vision that the only real way to combat global warming is this regenerative farming model where you sequester the carbon in the soil. This sequel, that’s just launched this week, Common Ground, is a call to action for businesses to lead the way. The government has its role, but it’s a call to action for the private sector in companies and brands to embrace regenerative agriculture. I’m very proud that Maker’s Mark was the first company to commit to have 100% of our agricultural input source from regenerative certified partners.
John: Wow. That’s awesome.
Rob: Regenerative agriculture is all about the healthy soil, the biodiversity of the soil, which leads to competitive yields, leads to more nutrients, more flavor, and is so much better for the environment. Not just the global warming and sequestering the carbon, but trying to minimize all of the pollutants in the water table through conventional farming.
John: The Common Ground people, I believe, is run by the Kiss the Ground people.
Rob: That’s right, yes, Kiss the Ground, that’s right.
John: And Kiss the Ground was founded by a young man who is a brother of, there’s a plant-based restaurant chain on the West Coast called Sage, and Molly Engelhardt owned that, and her brother is the guy who founded Kiss the Ground. And I know him, I’ve met him, and it’s just a wonderful organization. But here’s where I get confused myself, Rob. And I’ve been doing this 16 years, and I’ve had so many amazing, great people like you that are visionaries that not only make a real nice living but also make a huge impact on this planet. It’s all the evidence and sciences in on regenerative agriculture. Why is it still more of an anomaly of great people and entrepreneurs like you that are practicing these practices, and why haven’t other agricultural entities bought on or followed suit? Why is there a break there? Why aren’t people following more of what you’re doing?
Rob: The film Common Ground really gets into your point.
John: Okay.
Rob: And it’s conventional farming is deeply embedded in every corner of the agricultural system. I do believe that it’s going to take brands and entrepreneurs to be a big part of leading the change. There’s a lot of education that needs to come along with that. And Gabe Brown, who’s prominently featured in Kiss the Ground, probably the most prominent regenerative farming leader in America. Gabe and a small group of his peers that have embraced regenerative farming and have lived it started an organization called Understanding Ag. And Understanding Ag, their mission is to partner with growers and their families to really understand the path and the model to move to regenerative farming for all of the reasons we’ve discussed. And Gabe Brown travels to Kentucky twice a year and has seminars with our 10 growers, with all of their families, their team members, and he is mentoring them on this regenerative farming journey. So Gabe is a resource, yes, to Maker’s Mark, but almost more importantly, to our 10 growers. And when you think about the future and what, you know, the Star Hill Farm Whiskey that we are just now beginning to launch, it’s the first ever new brand in the history of Maker’s Mark. This is not a bourbon, it’s a wheat whiskey.
John: No corn.
Rob: Star Hill Farm Whiskey is a celebration of nature as the maker. This is a blend of seven and eight-year-old whiskeys, but the vision here is to achieve flavor through regenerative agriculture. And we are donating the proceeds from Star Hill Farm Whiskey every single year to be a part of advancing regenerative farming practices all over the world. And over the next three years, this first three-year time period, we want to adopt 1 million acres of farmland across Kentucky, our home state, New York state, and the United Kingdom. And we are making available to hundreds of growers across these three territories for Gabe Brown and Understanding Ag to mentor growers, hundreds of farmers in New York, Kentucky, the United Kingdom, so they can embrace the same regenerative farming journey that we’ve been on. And then we want to use the profile of the Maker’s Mark brand to bring these stories to life in the restaurants, bars, hotels, to bring awareness to why regenerative farming needs to be an important part of the future.
John: As I shared with you off-air, my mom, Arlene Shegerian, and my wife, Tammy Shegerian, who are not big drinkers, but whenever we do go out and they have a cocktail, their first choice is Maker’s Mark. If we were together today, Rob, in person, and we poured ourselves one of your classic Maker’s Mark and then the Star Hill, talk to me a little bit about the differentiation and taste profiles and things of that such.
Rob: Classic Maker’s Mark is rich, creamy, balanced. It’s got a lot of bright cherry. It’s very much front of palette. It’s bottled at 90 proof or 45% alcohol by volume. The ingredients as a bourbon whiskey is for Maker’s Mark 70% corn, 16% soft red winter wheat, 14% barley malt. This Star Hill Farm Whiskey, you can taste organoleptically the flavor sort of DNA between the two, but the Star Hill Farm Whiskey has a lot of really rich, bright characteristics. It has a lovely dark chocolate with like almost like a dark chocolate covered cherry in sort of this rich toffee characteristic. But it definitely carries the DNA of the Maker’s Mark brand, but just pushes flavor in a bit of a different direction. I’m very proud of the whiskey itself, and proud, I think, as the eighth generation in our family, that there’s a higher purpose at the center of this bottle of whiskey. That this bottle of whiskey is the vector’s point out to being a part of advancing regenerative agriculture in partnership with leading hotels, bars, and many of the growers in creating a market in the important cities of the world for regenerative farming practices and regenerative ingredients.
John: Did I hear you right? A portion of the proceeds is going to go back to buy those million acres, or all the proceeds. How does that work?
Rob: We’re not buying the acres. We’re donating effectively all of the proceeds from Star Hill Farm Whiskey to fund all of the education for hundreds of farms in Kentucky, the UK, and New York. And then providing all of the mentorship with Gabe Brown and Understanding Ag for all of those growers. And then we will also fund the Regenified certification for all of those growers.
John: That’s amazing. When does…
Rob: And then we want to use the profile of the Maker’s Mark brand to bring visibility in the great bars, hotels, restaurants, to bring these stories and these ingredients to the guests to raise awareness.
John: 100%. When does the Star Hill Farm Whiskey go on sale, and where can people find it first as they start looking for it after they hear this show?
Rob: Middle of May, around the middle of May, the bottles should be showing up in leading package stores. And for anyone that has a neighborhood package store, it’s fairly limited. So you definitely probably want to call ahead and ask that they set aside a bottle for you. It’s going to be an annual release. So, this time of the year, every year, we will release that year’s allocation.
John: Rollout first is in the US?
Rob: In the United States, the United Kingdom, and then in Australia as well.
John: Got it. Well, I know, like I said, I have Japanese business partners that are partners of mine, and I’ve already seen them drink Maker’s Mark and how much they love Maker’s Mark. And they’re big on whiskey, you know that over there. I’m in Tokyo five, six times a year. They love whiskey, Japanese whiskey, but I’ll tell you, they’re big fans of yours. So I’m going to be giving them as gifts, this Star Hill Farm Whiskey. How many bottles a year, approximately, are you going to produce? How many do you start with, and then what do you foresee in the years to come?
Rob: It’s never going to be a gigantic brand. It’ll steadily grow over time. It’s fairly limited. And all of the agriculture that goes into producing this whiskey is grown on our farm. So we have 450 acres of agricultural land on Star Hill Farm where we’re growing all of the wheat and all of the barley. And we’re role modeling regenerative farming practices, which is why we have the two shepherds and the 600 rotational grazing program. But it’s the agriculture from Star Hill Farm land that we own, we control, practicing the highest level of regenerative farming practices that goes into the Star Hill Farm whiskey each and every year. And we’re proud, you see more and more customers all over the world that want transparency and traceability with what they purchase. And there is a new certification mark for whiskey makers that qualify where any distillery or brand that owns or controls how their ingredients are grown, if they ferment, distill, bottle, and age all of their whiskey, they can become an estate whiskey. It’s all about transparency and traceability, knowing exactly where the ingredients come from, and proud that Star Hill Farm Whiskey is the very first certified estate whiskey in the world.
John: It’s incredible. You’re such a forward-thinking person with your dad on the vision of the company, but I know you also are so steeped in the history. As you release this new brand Star Hill Farm Whiskey, is it with such delight that you know down from the heavens above, your grandma and grandfather are so darn proud of what you guys are doing right now?
Rob: I think they would be very proud. I really do. Even though it’s a different style of American whiskey, it’s still very much born out of the foundations and the DNA of their vision. Maker’s Mark is a wheated bourbon. Our flavoring grain is soft red winter wheat. I actually have the tasting notes that my grandmother made back in the early 1950s as they were baking loads of bread in their family kitchen, experimenting with different potential flavoring grains. I mean, it’s a cookbook full of all of these heirloom varietals and all these different things. And as we started this journey, trying to understand where flavor comes from and how farming practices have changed, how varietals have changed, we did the same thing. You know, what is the flavor range of possibilities that can be created through wheat? How much has flavor changed in wheat? And the answer was a lot. Up until about 60 years ago, all wheat was grown locally. And there was a moment in time where a very respected Nobel Prize-winning scientist cross-bred varietals of wheat that, for the very first time, were shelf stable. So you could ship it all over the world and feed the starving populations of the world, but he took the flavor out. And we’ve been on a mission to bring the flavor back. And what we’ve learned is, yes, modern varietals of wheat will help drive more flavor, but we believe more than half of the flavor comes from the health of the soil. And the health of the soil is achieved through stewardship of nature.
John: That’s incredible. You know, Rob, as you and I know, there’s a generation of young people. I’m 62 now, but there’s a young generation. My children are 38 and 31. And there’s a whole new generation of adults that enjoy your great product, Maker’s Mark, historically. Now they’re going to enjoy your new product as well. Talk a little bit about, but they care about, like you just said, transparency, impact, circularity, sustainability. How do you market to that new generation, realizing your old generation loves you, still loves you because of the quality, and they’re very tied to your brand? People like my mom, people like my wife, they love your brand. But now, how do you slightly adjust your marketing to go after the next generation of people who care about the exact topics you’re talking about today?
Rob: We believe doing good is good for business. We see clearly that more and more customers want to choose brands where they have shared values. And our marketing plan is really no more complicated than telling stories. So many brands in every category, not just in distilled spirits, so many products are invented by marketers. You peel back the layers, and there’s just not a lot there. We’re blessed that our brand came from the heart and soul of a craftsman, and it’s real, it’s authentic. There’s layers and layers and layers. And we love sharing the depth of who Maker’s Mark is, whether it’s with folks that make the pilgrimage to our distillery. We were the first distillery in Kentucky to formally host visitors.
John: What?
Rob: Yes. My grandmother, Margie Samuels, would go on to become the first female ever from a distillery to be inducted into the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame.
John: Oh, that’s awesome.
Rob: And not only is she credited with designing maybe the most iconic bourbon whiskey package, which has never changed. We have the first bottle, and it looks exactly like you would see on the back bar at your local restaurant. But she had this vision of designing the campus and the distillery not to be purely functional, but to balance function and form, to be personal. Let’s invite people that are interested to come experience it, to come live it. There’s nothing more personal than when you invite a friend to your home. And that was her vision. So we hosted visitors at Maker’s Mark since day one, since the very beginning. And today, the distillery is a national historic landmark. Our vision for the distillery in Star Hill Farm is to become the most culturally rich, endearing, and environmentally responsible home place of any brand in the world. So when you come visit, you spend not an hour sort of ushering through the distillery, but you spend a full day in nature, experiencing the leadership and nature that drives flavor. I was told we have the second-most-extensive modern art collection in Kentucky.
John: Really?
Rob: She had a wonderful eye for design and loved design details. And one of the ways we celebrate the legacy and vision of our founders is through all of these artistic collaborations. So we have dozens and dozens and dozens of handmade artwork woven through the experience. Actually, in July of this year, July 1st through the end of December, we are hosting a Dale Chihuly exhibition at Maker’s Mark. So if you’re familiar with the renowned glass artist, Dale Chihuly, we’ll have 12 to 15 of those large-scale, iconic installations woven through the campus and the gardens in nature, in our limestone whiskey cellar.
John: That’s so awesome. Rob, you’ve already sold; you sell your products all around the world. It’s an iconic brand. You’re like literally the American dream in real life. You’re right out of a storybook figure in terms of entrepreneurial eighth-generation and just driving it forward. Where do you go from here? Besides the exciting release of the first new product in 70 years, Star Hill Farm Whiskey, what’s your vision? You’re still young. What’s your vision for the years ahead, both for Maker’s Mark and for Star Hill Farm Whiskey?
Rob: It’s so ironic that our co-founders in the beginning didn’t have a commercial or business ambition. Who starts a business without having a commercial ambition? But if you went back in time and asked my grandfather what success looked like, the P&L was not high on his list.
John: That’s so funny.
Rob: If you’ve ever met a craftsman or a craftswoman, they always obsess over whatever it is they’re making.
John: It’s true.
Rob: So, you know, while he didn’t have a commercial ambition, it’s so ironic that today they are credited for changing the course of our industry. And it was an awesome moment. A couple of years ago, Food and Wine Magazine did a survey with 30 of the most respected American whiskey leaders, master distillers, brand owners, whiskey writers, and they were asked to rank the most important bourbon brands of all time. And all but two said Maker’s Mark is the most important bourbon brand that’s ever been made. And the journalist that sort of summarized the findings said that the co-founders of Maker’s Mark chose to reimagine a future for bourbon when it didn’t look like bourbon had a future. When my grandparents were starting, Bourbon was taking a nosedive. It was declining year on year. But here we are. I think we have an opportunity to take this brand all over the world. The values of Maker’s Mark, the organoleptics of Maker’s Mark, the higher purpose of Maker’s Mark, it resonates with consumers all over the world just like it does here in our backyard. So we intend to continue following our founders’ North Star as the vision for the brand. Everything is perfectly unreasonable in all of our pursuits. And we love sharing what we do, whether it’s at the distillery, I’m going to London in a couple of weeks to share the first sips of Star Hill Farm Whiskey. And the authenticity of this brand resonates with folks all over the world.
John: Like I said, my partners in Japan turned me on to other great whiskeys over there, and they take great pride. I wouldn’t be shocked if you told me that other whisky manufacturers around the world call you and ask you for advice or guidance in terms of all the things you talked about today in terms of regenerative agriculture, sustainability, impact, giving back to the community. I mean, I’m sure your wisdom people are seeking that at all times.
Rob: What we’ve been told by Regenified, which is the third party that certifies all of our agricultural land as regeneratively through regenerative farming practices. After we announced our Regenified certification, the number of other distilleries and other companies that reached out to learn more jumped up dramatically. And I think if we can do it, others can do it. And if we can do it at scale, we’re at scale today. If we can do this at scale, others can as well.
John: Can you hold up both of your original Maker’s Mark and your Star Hill? I want you to show our… First of all, I want you to show again how each one is poured and unique in terms of the pour on the seal. I love that. That red seal is so iconic.
Rob: This is the first bottle of Maker’s Mark.
John: No.
Rob: This is the very first bottle of Maker’s Mark.
John: That’s crazy.
Rob: Dated May 8, 1958.
John: It looks like it’s just the back of the bar and one of my favorite bars here. That’s awesome.
Rob: And then I showed you the Star Hill Farm Whiskey.
John: Yeah. Star Hill Farms. Yeah.
Rob: Star Hill Farm and Wheat Whisky. We’re proud of both of them and proud of the higher purpose, and just proud to share. And I appreciate you making the time to connect and come see us. Open invitation for you and your viewers to come see us.
John: Well, Rob, first of all, I’m going to bring my family down there in the future. I’m going to take you up on that. Second of all, I’m going to buy some of your Star Hill Farm Whiskey and give it as gifts this year, because I really love, before I even knew you were giving back to profits for education purposes for more regenerative agriculture, I just love an eighth-generation, a family member, taking what their grandparents crafted with all their blood, sweat, and tears, and their dad, and now you’re taking it to new levels and new heights. We’ve got to celebrate that in America. You’re a part of it. On the other side of the technology geniuses out there like the Elon Musks, which good for them and we’re proud of them too, we’re just proud of people like you that are just amazing, great Americans that take great legacies and take it to new heights. And so, Rob, I just want to say thank you for your time today. Thank you for all you’re doing. For our listeners and viewers to find Rob again, you could go to makersmark.com, makersmark.com, and all the bars, restaurants, and other great retail outlets that sell these wonderful products. You’ll find it, and as you said earlier, Star Hill Whiskey’s coming out in mid-May. Get it while it’s out because it’s a one-time-a-year deal where they send these bottles out. It’s not going to be for sale as widely as your regular Maker’s Mark. And Rob, thank you not only for spending almost an hour with us today, more important, thank you, your father, your grandparents, your entire family, for just making the world a better place.
Rob: Thank you, sir.
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