Thomas Burkhardt is the global President and CEO of Marchon Eyewear, a VSP Vision company. Marchon is one of the world’s largest manufacturers, distributors, and designers of eyewear. In his role, Thomas leads Marchon’s efforts to revolutionize sustainability in eyewear. Through his leadership, Marchon established Eyes on Tomorrow, one of the leading sustainability and CSR programs in the eyewear industry. 

John Shegerian: Get the latest Impact Podcast right into your inbox each week. Subscribe by entering your email address at impactpodcast.com to make sure you never miss an interview. This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy, and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com. This episode of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Closed Loop Partners. Closed Loop Partners is a leading circular economy investor in the United States with an extensive network of Fortune 500 corporate investors, family offices, institutional investors, industry experts, and impact partners. Closed Loop’s platform spans the arc of capital from venture capital to private equity, bridging gaps and fostering synergies to scale the circular economy. To find Closed Loop Partners, please go to www.closedlooppartners.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. I’m John Shegerian and I’m so honored to have with us today, Thomas Burkhardt. He is the president of Marchon Eyewear. Welcome, Thomas, to the Impact Podcast.

Thomas Burkhardt: Hello, John. Thank you. Good afternoon.

John: Good afternoon. I’m a little envious. You happen to be sitting in my home city of New York City today, which I love. And I know you’ve become a native New Yorker over the years. We’re going to get into that in a second. And we’ve never had you on the show, nor have we even covered this topic of eyewear and sustainability. So, I’m so happy you’re here today. But before we get talking about everything, you’re doing great at Marchon Eyewear. I’d love you to share your story, please. Where’d you grow up and how’d you get on this fascinating journey that you’re on, Thomas?

Thomas: Thank you, John. Yes. So even though I live in Brooklyn, that accent is not from Brooklyn. It’s actually German. Thomas Burkhardt, born and raised in Germany, Cologne, Germany, 50 and changed years ago. Grew up there, had my wonderful education there, and was in the German Air Force. And then my first job was with an American company, Procter & Gamble. They hired me in Germany to be a part of their brand management program. I joined them in Frankfurt, Germany. Then they moved me around. I lived in London in the UK. I lived in Geneva and Switzerland. At some point, my job even moved to Cincinnati. I commuted back between Europe and Cincinnati. So wonderful education, as you can imagine. Procter & Gamble, particularly if you join in brand management, you really understand consumer first, consumer’s boss, you understand R&D, you understand product management. So, I did that for a number of years. And then I was in Geneva, actually, in 2010, I got a phone call that literally started with, “Could you ever imagine living in New York City?” And the rest is history.

John: Wow.

Thomas: It was a recruiter that got me to back then a beauty company, Coty, that I joined here in New York City, actually in the Empire State building. That was a great place in the city to work in. And then in end of 2015, I got another phone call. And then somebody said, “Have you ever considered working in the eyewear industry?” And after my, was it almost 14 years with Procter & Gamble, five years with Coty, I was mostly in beauty. So, I knew everything about shampoos, conditioners, skincare, fragrances. Eyewear? I wasn’t even using eyewear at this point in time, but I figured, “Do you know what? It’s an interesting industry because here I can use what I know, which is fashion licenses, brand building, but there’s also a healthcare component that is so rare. So where else do fashion and healthcare meet?” And I thought, as a generally curious person that that could be interesting, so to speak. So, I went to have the conversations, and I got to know the small [inaudible]. What I thought was a small company based in Malverne, Long Island called Marchon, turns out is one of the world leaders in eyewear that works with companies like Nike, Calvin Klein, Lacoste, Ferragamo, Converse. Over 30 brands have chosen this company from Long Island, Marchon Eyewear, to be their partner. Over the course of the history, now 40 years history of the company, Marchon has become one of the largest designers and manufacturers of eyewear worldwide. I joined them first as the head of brands, then they gave me product. And then in 2022, they said, “Why don’t you run the shop?” So, I’m now the proud president of Marchon Eyewear leading a team of over 2,000 folks that is distributed across 25 countries. And yes, we’re having fun on the way doing it.

John: And it’s no small company. North of a billion in sales. So, this is a big venture that you’re running now. This is a very big company.

Thomas: Yes, it’s a big company. I call it a 40-year-old startup. It still feels like a small company and that’s the beauty of it. But it’s a sizable company and we’re big in our industry and in our industry, people know us. And again, we’re so lucky and so privileged to work with some amazing global companies, be it in fashion, be it in performance. As I said, Nike’s been a partner of us for over 25 years. Calvin Klein has been a partner for us for 30 years. Italian fashion houses like Salvatore Ferragamo work with us, Longchamp in France, Lacoste. So, we have this incredible set of partners that trust us with their eyewear needs, so to speak, and their products, and we’re working very closely with them.

John: And this is an industry I know nothing about except, let me just show you. I mean, now at 62 years old, I need your products, I use your products, and I love your products, but I know nothing about the industry as itself. Is this a growth industry and how do you foresee? You’ve already been there now 10 years in different roles, four years now, three and a half years as CEO and president. How big is this opportunity?

Thomas: It’s a tremendous opportunity. If you think about it, out of the 7 billion people in the world, 4 billion need some form of vision correction, but only 2 billion people have it. And obviously, we’re catering to a richer clientele given the brands we’re presenting, but the need of vision care is universal. In that sense, be it in developing markets with again, emerging middle class, but also here in the United States with an aging population, us looking at screens all day, even our children are looking at screens all day, vision correction is here to stay. It’s a growth category and what I love about this role and the company, the field we’re working in, and actually, it’s something that really improves people’s lives because as you know, you also need eyewear.

John: Right.

Thomas: Putting that frame on for the first time, you go like, “Oh, this is so much better.”

John: Oh my gosh.

Thomas: It allows us to function. So, we’re doing good while at the same time, hopefully also make you look good.

John: Absolutely. I mean, I fought it for a long time and finally just now that I’m 62, I just had to get, and I can’t live without them now. I have three or four pairs, and I can’t do my work without my glasses. So, I love them. So, you’re saying the total addressable market on a worldwide basis is billions, billions of people.

Thomas: Yes. It is billions. I mean, think about it in the hierarchy of needs, once you have enough to eat, you have a roof over your head, the next thing often is education.

John: It’s true.

Thomas: And then you want to start reading. Even in countries that are poorer, people now look at phone screens. The need is there and obviously industry is trying to fill it. At the end, it’s a very simple basic product. It’s two lenses held by a frame.

John: Right.

Thomas: It’s just a challenge to particularly bring also the medical part to people around the world and make sure they get eye exams, they get diagnosed properly and they get equipped with the right frame. We’re proud to be part of that industry.

John: Thomas, just for our listeners and viewers, if they’re working out right now or on a walk or driving to work, you don’t have to write this down. This will be in the show notes, but to find Thomas and his great brand, Marchon Eyewear, you could go to www.marchon.com. So, talk a little bit about VSP Vision, Marchon Eyewear, and what’s the greater mission. As the leader, how do you set the mission? And I’m really fascinated by your comment earlier, how do you run a 40-year-old startup? How do you keep that energy and excitement among 2,300 people making it still feel like a startup, which is always the most exciting atmosphere to go work at?

Thomas: Yes. Thank you for that question. So, two things. First of all, I should have mentioned first that Marchon is part of VSP Vision, which is the biggest vision insurer in the world.

John: Oh, okay.

Thomas: VSP insurers is the partner of over 65% of Fortune 500 companies for their vision care needs. And for many of your viewers, to remind them, usually in November you get your benefits form, and you take health insurance and usually there’s vision and dental and you tick that vision box. In most cases, in many cases, that’s VSP who’s actually celebrating its 70th anniversary this year. VSP is a great company. It’s actually not-for-profit. It was founded by eye doctors. It’s all purpose there. Actually, our purpose is empowering human potential to a sight, but it is really also there to foster the industry and to foster vision care in general. Seven of our 12 board members are ODs, independent ODs.

John: Oh.

Thomas: And that sets a direction that really puts vision care and not profit in focus and puts vision care and the support of the industry ahead of that. It’s fun to work for that. I mean, I can tell you still, when I talk to my CFO, obviously I still get managed like a for-profit company, but there’s a real purpose, and you see that throughout the organization. So VSP Vision has different divisions, owns retail, owns obviously units that support providers that support the industry overall. And Marchon is a proud part of that since the acquisition in 2008. Marchon itself was actually founded by three young, well, back then young gentlemen on Long Island, New York, which I know, it’s not too far from where you grew up.

John: Right.

Thomas: As I said, then they managed to sell this to VSP. But this entrepreneurial spirit that those founders created, as I said, that’s still here. And as you say, it’s a challenge.

John: Right.

Thomas: Actually, not really. Well, you think it should be a challenge, but somehow, we’re preserving that spirit, be it in the way we’re communicating, in the way we drive decisions, which is probably also a nice segue when we talk about sustainability, because actually the fact that we were very pragmatic in the way we’re approaching the topic is kind of linked to our culture.

John: Well, I want to go into that in a second. The 2,300 employees, are they diverse around the world, are they in one city or one state? Primarily, where are they located?

Thomas: So, we’re pretty much located around the world. We have three regional headquarters here in New York, then Amsterdam in the Netherlands for Europe, Middle East and Africa, and then Hong Kong for Asia. But then we have subsidiaries in pretty much all the larger markets around the world. So, the European countries, Spain, France, Italy, UK, Germany, we’re in Hong Kong, we’re in China, we’re in Japan, we’re in India with a joint venture, we’re in Sydney, we’re in Australia. So, as you can imagine, my days start early, usually around 7:30, because then you can get your Asian colleagues still on a call right before or right after their dinner. They go through until you get yourself to the west coast of the United States. But it’s a global company and it’s interesting, particularly when COVID hit and everything was going to calls and Teams, we were already used to that because we’re a global company.

John: Nice.

Thomas: My management team is in five different locations. So, we were used to just getting on. It used to be obviously the dreaded conference phone. Now it’s a much, much better Zoom or Teams call and much better quality. But that was the way we’ve been operating. The way we’re operating today, we’ve been operating like this for many years already. So, this wasn’t too big of a change for us.

John: I love it. Now let’s go back to what you just mentioned a little while ago, impact and sustainability. Talk about the culture that you run, and you manage, and you continue to impart upon Marchon and grow at Marchon of sustainability, of circularity, and of impact. How does that work? When did that journey start? And where are you in that process and that journey right now?

Thomas: Okay. So, there’s a lot to talk about.

John: A lot to talk about.

Thomas: Thank you for phrasing the question that opened. It’s been a journey. Obviously, sustainability, as you mentioned, I grew up in Germany. I worked in consumer-packaged goods. There were recycling programs. I mean, they started in the late ’80s. My father was in retail, so I got exposed to that, how this worked, the famous Green Dot that was on bioplastic packaging. So, there was an awareness obviously there. Eyewear is interesting in the sense that just on the surface, eyewear is not necessarily seen as a problem by most people because here’s a frame. Unlike a plastic water bottle, it’s not something you throw away every day.

John: That’s right.

Thomas: If you’re like me, my used frames usually end up in that drawer with the old cell phones.

John: A hundred percent.

Thomas: So, there are no photos of a patch of discarded eyewear floating in the ocean.

John: Right. That’s exactly right.

Thomas: But still, I mean, we make 22 million frames a year.

John: Wow.

Thomas: Somebody gave me the number that in the US, 4 million frames are apparently thrown away every year. I think that’s an understatement.

John: I agree.

Thomas: I’m sure there’s going to be a lot more. And we’re not necessarily talking about the frames that we’re producing, which are obviously of a certain quality, a certain price point, also have longevity. But think about all those three-dollar readers that you can buy in the drugstore or the five-dollar sunglasses at the gas station.

John: That’s right.

Thomas: It adds up. So, we’re talking about millions of frames and when we kind of looked at it, first one, it was not necessarily just the waste of throwing a frame away, but everything around it, how frames are made, demo lenses. You’ve probably seen this when you go to an optical store, there’s this, usually it has something printed up, that gets thrown away the moment your prescription lens comes in.

John: Oh.

Thomas: That alone, I think I got the numbers, there’s like 400 tons of demo lenses every year. So, there was opportunity. But again, it wasn’t necessarily seen as something urgent in the industry. And when I started in 2016 in the company, it wasn’t a topic. It wasn’t a topic at all. We kind of dilly-dallied around. I remember having conversations with our head of sourcing who was working with some external companies on new materials. We were looking at new materials. One day he comes to me, and I still remember that day, it was in the summer of 2018, and he throws a frame at my desk and said, “Here.” It was a sunglass, but similar to this. “Here, that’s made from beans.” I’m like, “What?” So, “Yes, it’s made from beans. This frame.” Like, “What? That’s a plastic frame. We all know how plastic is made.”

John: Right.

Thomas: And turns out this was a prototype of a new material, a plant-based resin, that was made from castor bean oil or predominantly made from castor bean oil. The skeptic that I am obviously said, “Well, we’ll see about your frame made from beans.” I have to go on vacation in San Clemente in Southern California with my son or sort of vacation. And I said, “I’m going to destroy that frame.” I actually left it overnight in salt water just to see what would happen with it.

John: Right.

Thomas: I’m back after 10 days, I still have that frame.

John: Wow.

Thomas: Which convinced me and the best thing about it was not only was this a material that was indistinguishable from fossil fuel-based plastic, as light, as flexible, as comfortable. It felt good. But also in this case, it was more expensive. This material that we had. So that was the journey. That was the start of our journey. So, we actually started, and we have a brand called Dragon that we own. It’s a surf snowboarder eyewear brand. We have snow goggles. We have sunglasses within the Dragon brand. And since it was our own brand, we didn’t really have to ask anybody for permission, we just started the first range of castor bean-based, or what we call a plant-based resin.

John: Plant-based. Right.

Thomas: Plant-based resin frames. And on Dragon actually, I think six months later, we converted the entire brand to plant-based resin, and we haven’t looked back.

John: How was the response from your client base?

Thomas: Curiosity. And then similar to me, actually, this looks and feels like a normal frame.

John: Right. Why not?

Thomas: And that comes down back to my opening point. The consumer is not necessarily looking for sustainable frames or wasn’t looking for sustainable frames at that point because it wasn’t the problem. It’s eyewear. Again, it’s not a water bottle that I throw away or like a canister detergent that goes out.

John: Right.

Thomas: But we’ve seen that the moment we give you the choice, “Here’s a more sustainable frame versus a frame that is made with traditional methods and materials,” of course, consumers will go for the more sustainable.

John: Right.

Thomas: If it’s at the same quality and also in what we’ve learned very early on, if it’s at the same price.

John: Oh, got it.

Thomas: And that was something that didn’t make our journey more difficult. I have to say it just made it more deliberate like where are we investing and where are we making the changes? Because we thought it would be unfair to ask the consumer to pay more for it. And obviously, we didn’t also want to lose our shirt over it.

John: Right.

Thomas: But figuring out how to do a way, and this is where our scale comes back, and our size comes back in. Because obviously we can go to raw material manufacturers and make different commitments to materials. And coming back to the pragmatic approach, converting entire brands to new materials obviously allows also our suppliers to scale up the production of their materials.

John: Thomas, how much of your sales, without giving away any secret recipes or sources or information, how much is under your brand, Marchon, and how much is private label work for other great brands like you mentioned, Calvin Klein, Nike and these other amazing brands? What kind of mix of sales you have with that kind of stuff?

Thomas: Yes. Probably around about 20% is our own brands and 80% is with licensed partners. Again, brands like Nike and Lacoste.

John: Amazing. These are amazing brands.

Thomas: I mean, the [inaudible] brands. We sell them everywhere.

John: These are iconic brands. So, what do you do? Once you get dragging going and you see how the clients like it, then do you bring it quietly to Calvin Klein and also Nike and ask them would they like to start deploying that?

Thomas: Then something else happened. So, you said quietly, we didn’t have to do it quietly.

John: Okay.

Thomas: It was actually more our luxury partners that came to us asking us pretty much at the same time, “By the way, are you doing something in sustainability?” Because fashion houses are obviously looking at their supply chains. They’re looking where their customers are coming from. They’re looking at how their leather is sourced. They’re looking at the water used in the preparation of the materials. Again, I remember vividly, it was actually Ferragamo approaching us out of Italy, who we’ve been a partner with now for almost 15 years and approaching us and asking us exactly that same question. At that time, it was like lucky you were asking because then we had a new material coming to play which was a recycled or renewed acetate material. With Ferragamo, we actually launched the first ever recycled acetate frame probably in the eyewear industry into the market.

John: That’s so exciting. Your partners are using it plus you get to use it for your own forward-facing brand as well. So, what a win on that. What happens to the glass? Is there a sustainability element of the inside of the glass now, too?

Thomas: Yes. So, there’s two components to it. One is obviously, as I said before, it starts with these demo lenses.

John: Right.

Thomas: Because when we deliver a frame, it always comes with this little plastic lens here.

John: It gets thrown out at the end, you said. They get thrown out.

Thomas: And then, obviously, the first question is, “Okay, can I return them all? Can I recycle them?” That’s quite labor intensive, logistics, etc. So, we took a slightly different approach and said, “How can we make this demo lens have the least impact at all?” And we’ve now switched our entire demo lens product to recycled materials that are certified that are produced in a way that is carbon neutral, just to make sure it has the least possible impact. I think we saved over 4 tons of demo lens materials already just by doing that.

John: Wow, that’s huge. So, sustainability has become now embedded in the Marchon culture and brand?

Thomas: It has. One way of doing that was to set a goal. Right out of Covid 2021, we set the goal that by 2025, i.e. by the end of this year, we wanted to have at least 50% of our frames made from more sustainable materials and we’re well on track. The year is not over yet. So, I always have to kind of poke my product developers like, “How is it going?” But we’re well on track. Not at 100% yet because there are certain things you can’t do with more sustainable materials yet.

John: Right.

Thomas: But the nice thing is, as I said, we started with this plant-based resin and other materials like the recycled acetate from Eastman, which I know you also talked to at some point in your podcast.

John: Sure.

Thomas: Now we have over a dozen of different materials that provided [inaudible] for the designers to actually choose a more sustainable option as they’re creating their new designs, their new developments, and as they’re working with our partners.

John: Well, I’m fascinated by, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, is you brought up, which is so ironic but also important, how we take our eyewear and at the end of the day, when we’re done using it or when it’s come to its natural end of life or any of that, it ends up in a drawer just like, you gave the great comparison, our cell phones. Now I happen to be in this business, the cell phone business and the recycling business of electronics. And what I’ve seen over the years is when you deal with municipalities and cities, cities think about recycling the three things that are the closest and nearest and dearest to their constituency. Electronics, food and composting, and also clothing, which eyewear is a component of, really, our clothing but just in another way.

Thomas: Yes.

John: And it’s a very personal thing. So, I don’t ever like to throw out my old eyewear because it becomes part of us and becomes attached to us. But I really don’t know where the right place is to recycle my eyewear. So, talk a little bit about how you message that besides messaging the sustainability of your manufacturing and what you’re creating and what you’re putting on people’s faces, how do you message how to get back these things into the circular economy? How to get back our old eyewear into the circular economy?

Thomas: That is still a challenge, John.

John: Okay.

Thomas: You absolutely have your finger right on it.

John: It’s a challenge for us too, by the way. It’s still a challenge for us. I’m not sure.

Thomas: That’s with the fact, similar to electronics, that this is mixed materials. This is not the frame.

John: Right.

Thomas: There’s a wire inside of the temple, there’s metal screws here, there’s the lens that is made from a different material. So, in order to properly recycle, you have to basically assemble the frame that is relatively labor and cost intensive. And the industry has not found a model yet that directs frames. That’s why also, again, trying to be pragmatic and not having the perfect to be the enemy of the good, as long as that’s not in place, let’s focus on actually making the frames in a more carbon neutral…

John: Brilliant.

Thomas: …in a more sustainable way. So, we can do something.

John: That’s right. When I got in my business, recycling of electronics, I dealt with all the biggest OEMs in the world, the Samsungs and the LGs and Panasonics and the Sonys. And back then, they didn’t think about that side, the manufacturing side. But just like you are, they all now have a division called Design for Sustainability. They have a huge thought leadership around that now and action plan around that, just like you’re doing. Like you said, let’s not get rid of the good for the perfect. That makes no sense. Now I understand. Do you foresee that? Do you foresee some young engineer at Stanford or at some other great institution in the United States or around the world coming up using robotics or AI to help on the recycling side one day?

Thomas: I hope to see that.

John: Yes, me too.

Thomas: Absolutely. Certainly, I hope to see that. And particularly also, if you look at how the eyewear industry is evolving, there’s more larger players, chains are growing much faster than independent optometry, which have, I think, different means at their disposal also to create the flows of bringing product back. But it will have to start with actually people bringing the old frames to their optician or to their doctor when they start getting a new one…

John: That’s right.

Thomas: …and not keeping it in that drawer.

John: In the drawer. Yes.

Thomas: But there’s so much work still to be done. As I said, 50% for me was a moderate goal, but I’m glad we’re kind of on track to do that. And there’s so much around it because it’s not just about the materials of the frames, it’s also the way the frames are made, the frames are packaged, transported.

John: Since that’s your expertise, branding and packaging and product promotion, talk a little bit how you do that messaging because I’m fascinated by that itself.

Thomas: As we were going in the more responsible manufacturing of our frames, obviously all these questions emerged immediately right after that.

John: True.

Thomas: So, bit by bit, it’s the challenge to our sourcing teams, to our product development teams. For instance, we have these frames usually come in little plastic bags because they need to be protected on the journey to the final endpoint.

John: Right.

Thomas: We looked at obviously other materials, alternative materials, that small plastic bag was still the most convenient. And also again, coming back to managing costs and not having other people to bury the burden of this, the bag was still the most convenient and the most effective way, but making those poly bags for instance out of biodegradable materials way forward. I think we replaced over 98 tons of plastic bags with more sustainable versions at this point in time. Just in a few years, we’ve done it. It goes down to obviously the outer cartons that come with this. This is now all FSC-certified recycled post-consumer product paper. It comes down to the way our frames are transported. The industry is still to a relatively large degree dependent on air shipment. We reduced our air shipments by 40% over the last three years. Moving to see which is a planning exercise that needs to be done. Then the recycling of materials in our factories being an ongoing topic.

John: [inaudible].

Thomas: And obviously, is everything around it that you can touch, we will have a critical look and if we can do it again. And this comes back to what I mentioned earlier, this kind of pragmatic way. It’s just somebody comes up with an idea, it seems safe, what does it cost, and then if we can do it, we’ll do it.

John: For our listeners and viewers, if you’ve just joined us, we’ve got Thomas Burkhardt with us. He is the president of Marchon Eyewear. To find Thomas and his great products, please go to www.marchon.com. I’m on your website now and I love it. I pressed the button, Eyes on Tomorrow.

Thomas: Yes.

John: Can you share a little bit with our listeners and viewers? Eyes on Tomorrow, what does that mean?

Thomas: So, Eyes on Tomorrow started in, I think, 2021 or 2022. As I said, we started with our sustainability journey around about 2018 to 2019. At that point, we ended up getting so many questions from customers, from our partners, even from employees like, “We hear you’re doing all these things around sustainability. Where can I find more information about it?” So, I was like, “Okay, it was probably time to bring this all together into one framework.” And this is how Eyes on Tomorrow was born. So, it’s a communication framework that we’re using to talk about not only what we’re doing with the product. We have three pillars in Eyes on Tomorrow: Eyes on Supply Chain, Eyewear and Eyes on People. And each of these pillars summarize the actions that we’re employing as an enterprise. Eyes on Eyewear is pretty straightforward. This is what I talked about. How can I make this frame from sustainable materials, recycled materials, or plant-based instead of fossil fuel-based materials? Eyes on Supply Chain links to the other things I just talked about. So, everything from the transportation to the packaging to the carbon footprint of our own factory in Italy is linked to that. And then Eyes on People, we were already doing and being part of VSP obviously was a great driver to this. We were already doing so many things that were helping our communities and helping our employees and our stakeholders. To give you one example, VSP Vision has these mobile eye clinics that travel the country and go to areas that are under-resourced with their vision care, underserved with regards to vision care. They set up camp. Our employees can actually volunteer in these. We just had a volunteer call again. We have some of those mobile clinics hitting upstate New York in a few weeks. And that all goes into Eyes on Tomorrow as a communication tool. Again, starting internally with an internal newsletter, internal updates, but also externally to customers, to licensors, to stakeholders, to keep us all up to date with what we’re doing.

John: That’s so wonderful. You’ve been in your position now almost three years. You’ve been with the company nine years now, 10 years almost. I know it’s hard to predict the future now. There are so many externalities that you and I can’t control as leaders of our companies, but what’s your short-term and long-term goals for Marchon and how do you foresee the next five years ahead?

Thomas: In terms of business, obviously, the planning is challenging in times of volatility that we have right now, but no, clearly, we have ambitions to continue in this leading position as being one of the largest and I think most prolific designers and manufacturers of eyewear. We’re having a, I think, very strong market position in the United States. We have growth opportunities, even though we’re well positioned in Europe and Asia, but there’s tremendous growth opportunities, as I mentioned, with particularly also people entering the category, so to speak, and we together with our partners want to be part of that. With regards to sustainability, it’s almost like a quiet march towards the right goals. And again, very pragmatically, if a new material comes online, we’ll try it out. Very often we’re the first. Our material vendors also know that we’re maybe a little more willing to take subtle risks there. So, they come to us usually very early on, sometimes even in the development phase. And we encourage them to do this with some commitment to at least try it out, utilize it. So, as I said, 50% goal by the end of 2025, I want to drive this as much as I can. I’m excited about new materials and new innovations coming into the category. I had a conversation funny enough just this morning with our head of sourcing, which talked to me about a carbon negative material that’s made from algae that one of our vendors is currently working on. I blew my mind as well. I’m carefully optimistic that I can see this. So yes, we keep discovering and we keep adding to it. At the end, we’re here to produce beautiful, stylish, high-quality eyewear that makes people see better and look better. And if we can do this in a better way, in a more responsible way, we’re here to do that.

John: Well, you’re going to. As you and I know, sustainability is a journey. So, I’m going to have you back on the show. When I have you back on the show, let’s say a year from now or two years from now, what’s your goal in terms of you’re already in more than 25 countries, is Marchon going to be in 50 countries two years from now or 60? How does that scaling grow with also your journey in sustainability continuing to march on? How do you grow also the greater brand?

Thomas: Actually, in terms of the brands, I didn’t mention this earlier, we are selling in over 100 countries already.

John: Wow.

Thomas: Distributors. So, the 23 countries are the markets where we’re physically without subsidiaries, but we have distributor partners. Obviously, you can find a Nike eyewear frame in probably every country in the world.

John: Sure.

Thomas: Obviously, there are growth objectives, there’s serving more people with the quality products that we’re proud to produce. And then in terms of sustainability, if I have the chance to come back in two years, again, I get excited about innovation and I get excited about the things, so maybe that frame that we’re making from algae that is carbon…

John: I’ll be wearing it then. I’m going to be wearing it for that episode.

Thomas: That’s kind of [inaudible].

John: I’m going to have it on.

Thomas: Again, it’s a journey. We’re excited about it. By the way, it’s also probably the one topic that our employees are most excited about.

John: That’s great.

Thomas: Which is fantastic. Every time we do like virtual town halls, usually the Q&A, maybe one person raises their hand. When we do sustainability updates, we need to put too many minutes in because there’s so many guys who want to talk. Because our employees are proud of what we’re doing. So, I want to continue on that journey.

John: I get to interview so many great people like you that are making such an important impact on this planet and represents so many iconic brands. And constantly and consistently, these leaders like you share with me that it’s both a retention tool and it’s also an attraction tool for brands, for employees to come to and work at, but also to stay at. Because they know they’re not just making a paycheck, they’re making a difference. And working at Marchon, they’re making a difference as well. When those converge, that’s magic.

Thomas: Absolutely. We’re seeing that every day.

John: Thomas, you grew up in Germany, but you live in right now and you’re a citizen now and a denizen of one of the most fashion forward cities on the world. When you go out to Broadway or to a restaurant or a bar or the ballet and you see all these wonderful people that fill up the seats of New York City and so many of them are very fashion forward, are you making mental notes like, “Hmm, she should be wearing a different pair of glasses. Those don’t look good on her. Those look good on him. I like that.” Whatever he’s doing there. Are you making mental notes all the time of…

Thomas: A hundred percent, John. And fit is my biggest [inaudible]. How many people wear eyewear that doesn’t fit their head?

John: That’s so true.

Thomas: It’s too small or too big. 100%.

John: That’s so true. That is so true. Oh my God.

Thomas: Oh, one thing I can encourage everybody. First of all, get an eye exam every year.

John: Great. I like that.

Thomas: Because you also detect so many other diseases through eyewear but also your optician is your friend. Even if you have a frame today that you haven’t bought there, go there, they’ll make sure it fits because there’s nothing worse than a frame, particularly if you’re like me, if you wear a frame all day that doesn’t fit or slides down your nose or like this.

John: Right. Well, Thomas, we are going to have you back because this journey is never over. We’re going to have you back on the Impact to share your continued journey in both leadership of Marchon but also in sustainability. For our listeners and viewers to support and to buy Thomas’ great products at Marchon Eyewear, please go to www.marchon.com. It will be in our show notes. So, if you don’t have time to write it down now or you’re driving or doing something that you don’t have use of your hands, it will be in our show notes. Thomas, thanks for not only spending almost an hour with us today here on the Impact Podcast, but more importantly, thank you for making the world a better place.

Thomas: Thank you, John. Thank you for having me.

John: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking platform revolutionizing the talent booking industry. With thousands of athletes, celebrities, entrepreneurs, and business leaders, Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent, for speeches, custom experiences, live streams, and much more. For more information on Engage or to book talent today, visit letsengage.com. This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet and your privacy, and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.