With over 5 million fans spread across her social media platforms, New York Times best-selling author Joanne Molinaro, (a.k.a The Korean Vegan), has appeared on The Food Network, CBS Saturday Morning, ABC’s Live with Kelly and Ryan, The Today Show, PBS, and The Rich Roll Podcast. She’s been featured in the Los Angeles Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, NPR, and CNN; and her debut cookbook was selected as one of “The Best Cookbooks of 2021” by The New York Times and The New Yorker among others.

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John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. This is a real special edition because we have joining us back again, the Korean Vegan herself, Joanne Molinaro. Welcome back to the Impact Podcast, Joanne.

Joanne Malinaro: Thank you for having me, John. I’m so excited to be back.

John: Oh, my gosh. Your last episode was one of my most memorable ever, not only from my own thinking and doing, but so many of our listeners and viewers reached out after that and they just enjoy your book so much and they were clamoring for you to come back. So thank you for coming back and sharing some time with us again.

Joanne: I aim to please. You know, Joanne, a lot’s happened in between, you know, our two interviews. But before we get going into what’s transpired and of course your new book, and we’re going to also talk about your new beauty line as well. Let’s talk a little bit about your backstory a little bit. But there’s a lot of folks who haven’t had the opportunity to listen. to the first episode and stuff. So talk a little bit about where you grew up and how you even got on this fascinating journey that you’re on.

Joanne: Oh, that’s such a long story, but I will keep it as short and succinct as I can. I grew up in Chicago, Illinois. It’s where I was born. My parents are both Korean immigrants. They were born in what is now known as North Korea, and they were refugees in South Korea before they immigrated to the United States in the mid to early 70s and they set up a life in Chicago. I had a very idyllic childhood. I mean, riding bicycles, playing tag, hide and seek with the neighborhood kids. It was a really diverse little town in Skokie, Illinois, and lived in a tiny little ranch house with a big oak tree in the front yard. My grandmas lived with me and raised me. We had Korean food growing in the backyard and cooking in the kitchen. And then, you know, I grew up as an immigrant kid, which meant that I spoke Korean first and learned English second, which was, you know, challenging, but I think helped to build the kind of person that I am. Now, I grew up with all of the stereotypes that you hear about with Asian families, which, you know, they very much valued scholarship. And that was a big thing for me. And because both my parents are refugees, they also wanted me to have a very financially secure life, which meant you can be a doctor, lawyer, or get an MBA. That was basically it. And I chose one of those and somehow ended up doing what I do now, which is a little bit of lawyering, mostly cook booking though.

John: I love your parents because literally they’re, think, a little bit older than me. I’m in my early sixties, but I literally did the same thing with our, I counted four children. We have two biological children, then we have our two God’s sons are our brother’s sons and that we also advised when they were young and we told them lawyer, doctor. We gave two choices. We’re a little bit more limited than your parents. Lawyer and doctor. Three became lawyers. One became a doctor. We said, we’re done. Exactly. But I love the way your parents went about that. So you went on this journey of law. How did you choose which part of the law you wanted to go into? What was driving you or calling you?

Joanne: That’s such a great question, John. I don’t think I’ve ever been asked that. So my personality is fairly non-confrontational. Again, many stereotypes. I don’t like arguing. I don’t like getting into fights. And I thought because of that, part of my personality, I should do business like transactional law, which is instead of fighting, I get to bring people together, create deals, facilitate mergers and acquisitions. That’s what I thought. I was wrong. My mom always used to say, you should be a lawyer. You’re so disobedient. You never agree with anything that I say. You always fight. And I just thought she was wrong about that. But my first internship at a law firm while I was still in law school, I decided, okay, I’m going to do a bunch of projects that are transactional, M&As, real estate transactions, those types of things, because that’s what I thought. I did one project and I said, yeah, no, this is not for me. This is not for me. And I got to do a trial advocacy program during my internship, which is like a mock trial. And I realized this is for me. I love this. Yes, there’s fighting involved, but there’s also like theater and storytelling and writing and acting. And it’s like, this is for me. And that’s how I became a litigator. So I became a commercial litigator. And eventually I specialized in the areas of complex chapter 11’s antitrust class action and fraud.

John: Wow. And so your career was very, very successful in the law, let’s just say it. What changed or what happened during your professional career to make you switch to the world of entrepreneurship?

Joanne: Well, I think, again, there’s no overnight story, at least not my story. I know there are overnight stories out there, but mine is never that way and maybe it’s because I’m so risk-averse and because I’m a lawyer. But honestly in 2016 I adopted a plant-based diet, and I needed to start figuring out how to cook vegan food because there were no Korean restaurants that offered vegan food at the time, and I was very committed to maintaining my roots to my heritage and that meant eating Korean food. So I started making veganized adaptations of the food I’d grown up eating. And my then boyfriend, now husband, was like, your food is so good. You should start a blog called The Korean Vegan, where you share all your food. And I was like, okay, fine. I didn’t think anything of it. And that’s exactly what I started doing in 2016. And that ultimately gave birth to what is now known as the Korean Vegan, right? Which is on every single social media platform as 5 million followers and all sorts of hundreds of thousands of people coming to our blog every day. And that is my first business, right? I think a lot of times people don’t think of influencers or content creators or food bloggers or cookbook writers as entrepreneurs, but believe me, having had most of my career housed inside of an institution and getting a W-2, you’re definitely an entrepreneur when you’re doing those things.

John: Let’s talk about two things there. Let’s go back. So back, switching over from the wonderful creature comforts that a larger organization, something bigger than yourself offers and the fraternity that a law firm offers as well in terms of other bright, wonderful and smart people to sort of the semi lonely journey of an entrepreneur. How did that work? How did that transition feel to you?

Joanne: It was terrifying. It was absolutely terrifying. I think that’s such a beautiful question because it is incredibly lonely and that loneliness is not something that really anyone can prepare you for. And I’m doing this with my husband, with my partner. He’s here with me, he works with me, he’s an employee of our company. So notwithstanding that. I’m the face of this company. It’s not the Korean Vegan plus friends. It’s the Korean Vegan.

John: The Korean Vegan plus associates.

Joanne: And it’s just me out there. And you know, my brand is my face. It’s me. It’s my recipes. It’s my words. It’s my story. So it’s especially lonely. But also, again, I get the sense from you, John, with your personality that maybe you kind of always had this entrepreneurial spirit. I didn’t. I specifically said I do not want to get an MBA because I don’t want to be a business owner. I was terrified of having to make my own decisions and being the safety net for everything. I wanted a safety net beneath me at all times in the form of malpractice insurance and a big law firm with thousands of other attorneys who would back me up. So when I went on it, you know, this journey to essentially leave my firm and really focus on the Korean Vegan as my business. It was scary. It was lonely. It was exciting and exhilarating. It pushed me. And every single day now, especially now that I started Korean Vegan Beauty, it’s been a learning process that I very much appreciate and that I’m very grateful for.

John: Do you ever miss the comforts of working for a law firm?

Joanne: I was thinking about that today because, you know, again, with launching Korean Vegan Beauty, it’s been like exponential stress when it comes to this. And also the success of this forthcoming cookbook is really important to, you know, TKV. And so I was thinking about that, like you’re really stressed out these days, like you’re super stressed and the anxiety is really ratcheting up. Joanne, are you sure you wouldn’t just go back to law firm life? And I said, not in a bajillion years. I still am so lucky to get to do what I do.

John: That’s so awesome. That’s so wonderful. But you’re right. Well, you know, once you’ve had the success like you’ve had five million followers, basically New York Times called your book the last cookbook that we talked about on the last episode, you know, one of the best cookbooks of 2021. So did the New Yorker. I mean, with all the adulation you had in the success and 5 million people listening to your voice, everything you do now is magnified. And so, wanting to continue to succeed and deliver to your audience and followers becomes a thing and that becomes stress, but also part of the journey.

Joanne: I think you’re totally right. mean, you probably are familiar with this concept, but I’ve learned, okay, selling a product is great. But what you need to focus on is the return customers. That is the most important conversion. And so I was thinking about that this morning with the second book. was like, how many people can I draw back into the Korean Vegan universe? What you enjoyed the first time. Now you’re going to get 10 times more of that in the second book, more intense and with the benefit of everything I’ve learned over the past four years.

John: All true. But you’ve successfully done that with your blog and you keep us all connected with your blog and you’re so great at that. So to me, I think your continued track record of success in creating hits that people are going to enjoy and use and keep coming back for, I think is going to continue.

Joanne: I think that’s really good hearing from you in particular.

John: Talk a little bit about the switch over to 16 to become a vegan. You know, some people do it for political reasons. Some people do it for ideology. Some do it for just strictly health. What was what was the genesis of your switch over and your eating habits?

Joanne: Well, it’s. That is not a black and white answer, but I would say generally speaking, it was for health. But to be specific, my boyfriend, now husband, he switched over for health, and I refused to join him at first because I had all these ridiculous preconceived notions about what it meant to be plant based. But he was really good at applying a little bit of pressure here and there to join him over the next two weeks or so of his experiment, I’ll call it, with being plant-based. And we’d watch all these movies and food, ink, forks over knives. And then we watched Cowspiracy. And I remember that one landed really hard with me because it was my introduction to Big Ag and its horrible impact on the planet. I I had full blown did not realize any of those things. And then the ethical conversation became much more complicated for me to ignore. Well, so it’s not just me and it’s not just the animals that are impacted by what I put on my plate. It’s literally every living being on our planet that is a very difficult thing for me to compartmentalize. After we watched Forks Over Knives, there was a lot of information about prostate cancer in East Asian men. And I kind of filed it away as an interesting little stat. And then my father was diagnosed with prostate cancer. And I felt it was such a weird coincidence. I don’t like that word, but that’s what it felt like. Within days of watching that movie, my father was randomly diagnosed with this exact cancer. And I just remember seeing the stat in my head and I was like, well, if there’s ever going to be a sign from the universe that I need to cut out meat, this has to be it. And after that, I stopped eating meat. We cut out dairy and eggs a couple of weeks later, and we’ve been vegan ever since.

John: Off to the races for all listeners and viewers who’ve just joined us. We’ve got back on our show today, Joanne Molinaro. She’s the Korean Vegan. You can find Joanne at www.thecoreanvegan.com. You know, your blog to me is just each blog I’ve read of yours is just a special story unto itself. You’re a prolific writer. Were you an amazing writer before you went into the law or did the law hone already what were just your innate skills and made you even a greater writer? How did that work? Because very few people write as well as you do.

Joanne: That’s very kind of you. I’m very much blushing. You know, my mother is a writer. She’s a published poet. She’s also a total bookworm. I was introduced to my very first Penguin classic when I was 10 years old and I’ve been reading, you know, the great writers of literature, English or not, since I was 10. And the best writers in my view are always big-time readers. So I’ve been a reader my whole life. Of course, I majored in English when I was in college. I studied creative writing quite a lot during college and in high school. I had a little bit of a writing bug, but that got squashed during law school. And, you know, lawyering certainly helped me understand the importance of succinctness, clarity, transitions, persuasive writing. And that absolutely is reflected in my writing today. But creative writing was less valued and prioritized during the 17 years where I devoted my life to that. I did start writing again as a hobby in 2011, I believe, in 2012 I started writing some poetry, learned a lot about creative writing just by experimenting. And I think what you see in my book, what you see in my newsletters, and even in my recipe posts is sort of an amalgamation of all of those things.

John: Do you know prior to starting the Korean Vegan that you had this wealth of historical stories, both from your family, but also from your own journey that you were dying to share with the world, because you just have so many fascinating stories and you share them with such openness and vulnerability. Unlike most others, I’ve rarely ever heard or read anybody that writes like you, was that something that was just bottled up and when you sit down, you just go or, you know, sort of like, you know, when Billy Joel says he writes a song, it comes to him and he just sits down and he writes it. Or you were tortured writer who sits in front of your computer and it’s all day affair?

Joanne: Well, I think it’s a little bit of both, I would say. I believe that there is a fascinating memoir in every single human being. I truly, truly believe that. I think so much, like for example, I, you know, great writer for the New Yorker, she’s a food writer. She wrote 90% of food, good food is presentation. And I think that that is very true with storytelling. Everyone has fascinating stories. Yes, my parents’ stories in particular, which to your question, I was not intimately aware of until after I started the Korean Vegan and I really began that investigative process. You know, I bet if you went into your family tree and started digging around, you’d find all sorts of amazing stories that help to build who you and your family are. And I think that’s the most beautiful thing about being a human. Now, in terms of actually documenting these stories, I could sit here all day and I can talk to you and tell you a good story. But because my background is in reading and because my mother was giving me Hershey bar when I was 11 years old, I have in my head a very high bar when it comes to the type of prose that I produce. And so you’ll often find me spending an hour to write two sentences just because I don’t like to produce anything that’s not perfect. So, you know, if it’s a recipe post, okay, yeah, that I could do pretty quickly. But if, you know, I’m working on a memoir right now and if I mean, it takes me forever to write a paragraph.

John: I think you have got I think you’re going to be, you know, we’re going to go back to Chicago. We’re going to talk about lawyers. We’re going to talk about great writers. You’re going to one day come up with something that tops Scott’s best work at this point in your life. You’ve got so much it’s going to it’s going to happen. And we’re going to go back to this podcast and I’m going to refer to it and say, I told you I know you have it within you. But you know, but I also want to give you more credit than that. You know, you’re also a brilliant storyteller, verbally speaking. So for one of my favorite stories, and I can remember exactly where I was when I listened, I was listening to you on someone else’s podcast, our common friend, Rich Roll. So you’re on Rich Roll’s podcast and I’m in a hotel gym. on the treadmill and you’re telling the Hershey bar story of your parents. And I remember literally on this treadmill crying, listening. And I’m like, oh, this is great. This is such a great look in the gym in Las Vegas. I remember the hotel. I remember literally where I was. And I’m like, how does she tell stories so beautifully? She just has a way and Rich was blown away. I know he’s a great storyteller and he’s you know, he’s another lawyer, master with words, master of turn of the phrase. And he was in awe oh of you sharing that story. Can you just give a little brief snippet of that story? Because the Hershey bar story will stay with me forever.

Joanne: Yeah. So my mother’s favorite thing to say, this is her favorite story. And she would always start the story is, yeah, the time your grandma almost killed me. And of course, that’s what, what are you talking about? And she’d be like, yeah, your grandmother almost killed me. And you’d think at first that it’s hyperbolic, but you realize, no, this is literally true. And it speaks to a time in human history that is very difficult to look at in the face. And that, of course, is the Korean War. My mother was born in Ongjin, which is a province in kind of the northern half of the Korean peninsula. And it was the beginning of the Korean War. It was literally the beginning. And so their village is under attack and they have been told they need to get out of there otherwise they may die. So my grandpa and my grandma, they took my mother who was 18 months old at the time away from the village. And in my head, I’m thinking, oh, well, they’re going to get to safety in 24 hours. No. It took about two weeks for them to get to the Yellow Sea where they were told maybe there would be a ship from the United States Army or the United States Navy that would take them to safety. There was a ship there, but unfortunately by that time, my mother, 18 months old, was starving. She hadn’t had water for several hours. And my grandparents had no idea where is the ship going to take us? Is there food on this ship? You know, everything’s in English, it’s mass chaos. And my grandpa finally said to my grandmother, I think we need to drown her. That is the only way to avoid watching her suffer to death because they were certain that she was going to die from starvation. And so they were about to throw her overboard. They got on the ship and they were about to throw her overboard so that she would drown in the sea when a couple of American GIs were like, what are you guys doing? And of course they had no idea what they were saying. Hand gestures, my grandmother is sobbing her eyeballs out, my mother is screaming in agony. And eventually they figure out what’s going on and one of the GIs reaches into his pocket and pulls out a Hershey bar and hands it over. And my mother always ends the story with, and that Hershey bar saved my life. Yeah, it’s such a great story.

John: The immigrant story of America. Like you said, I’m an immigrant as well. My family’s immigrants and that story just will never leave me. And that’s just one of the great, you know, you’re just you’re amazing at telling these stories. And I’ll tell you, Rich was just I know he was blown away and I’m crying on the treadmill and I’m like, oh, my gosh, I just. Whenever I think about how great a storyteller you are, it’s not only in your blogs, it’s really also in your voice. I’ll tell you a quick funny one, and then we’re going to go on to all the other wonderful things you’re up to. I remember listening to one of your your podcasts, and this is one where you’re just being, again, open and so vulnerable and sharing just your own journey. halfway through the podcast that I’m realizing it took me 60 something years to realize I’m a 40 something Korean woman who has dysmorphia because literally I’ve suffered from that my whole life, but you know, it’s hard to, you know, talk about it openly and even think that that’s part of your journey. But then when I’m listening to how you dealt with it and you’re just the ping pong nature of that thought process, I’m like, oh my gosh, Joanna has this so perfectly. How many other people suffer from this that don’t talk about it or don’t even admit it or any of that stuff? So each one of your Writings and stories are just so impactful on every level, whether it’s personal or, you know, the history that you share that we all also can relate to. I just think you’ve got so much more to do on the writing side because you’re just such a talent. It’s wonderful. But we’re to switch topics now to the new to your new book. Thank you for sharing this with this with this. this wonderful book with me early. I know it’s coming out on October 14th for all our listeners and viewers. This book is beyond amazing. Tell me a little bit how you decided to follow up with your first book and how you decided and what to curate and put in this second wonderful book, Homemade?

Joanne: Well, I think that there was a part of me that believes in, well, if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it. And I know that the first book did extremely well. And so I wanted to give readers sort of an extension of that first book. If you enjoyed my first book, you’re really going to like the second book. That was really the most important premise of book two. But I also wanted to make it distinct, right? I don’t want them to literally have a carbon copy of book one. And that was more than just, well, here are some more recipes. I mean, certainly could have done that. But I wanted this book to be more about Joanne. What are the types of things that she’s making in her kitchen all the time? What are her favorite foods? Not just traditional Korean recipes that have been veganized, which is really what book one is. It’s an introduction to traditional Korean cuisine with a plant-based twist. That’s really what book one is meant to be. You’re going to find a lot of recipes in book two. But you’re also going to find things like, you know, kimchi nachos or like, you know, kimchi queso or kimchi mac and cheese. I mean, this is very much a, you know, a hybrid of the food that I grew up eating, which is sometimes American food, a lot of times Korean food and sort of a mixture of those things. Also, it’s going to be very comfort foodie because that’s my favorite food. So lots of potatoes and lots of pastas and of course breads, but also like lots of soups and you know, things that I just love to make when it’s just me in the kitchen.

John: Got it. With your friends and all the entertaining that you do and things of that such? What’s the like? What’s your? What’s your husbands and yours like? What’s the greatest hits in your household if you were to pick out some of your greatest hits that you and your husband love, but also your friends love as well?

Joanne: Yeah, we were just talking about that. my husband’s Italian and so like pasta, pasta, pasta, he can never get enough pasta. So we have, you know, and we have a lot of noodles slash pasta dishes in the book. And so, you know, whatever pasta dishes in there, he’s going to love that. I’m trying to think like we had a lot of noodles that I kind of put in sort of like a gochujang dressing or like a spicy oil dressing. And, for us, pasta and noodles is interchangeable. know some people find that problematic. But, you know, again, I’m Korean, he’s Italian. So whether it’s noodles or pasta, it’s the same to us. We just love noodles. Right. And then in terms of, you know, big hits, I throw a lot of dinner parties. You know, the tteokbokki is always a big hit. tteokbokki is one of the most popular Korean street food. As you know, John, you’ve probably had some off the streets of it. it is one of the most popular street foods. So we have a very simple tteok-kkochi recipe in the cookbook, which is the kind that comes in skewers because those are really fun and, you know, fun to eat. We have both the sweet kind and we have a spicy kind. So that’s a big one. One of the surprising hits from the book was choco pie. Again, you’re probably familiar with choco pie, but for those who are not, it’s like a you know, marshmallow sandwich cake covered in chocolate. And I make a strawberry version and I made it for a birthday party. And I’m not even joking. The guy I made it for, he’s a CFO at a large company and he texted me two days later. He’s like, Hey, Joanne, I really think you need to start selling things. He’s like, really? Seriously. Can I make an introduction to a grocery store buyer? So, yeah, there are a lot of things like that in the book.

John: First of all, not only is the book beautifully written and also what I love, you always do both in your first book and your second book. You always honor your family and the book. And you’re just your success itself is always to me. There’s such honor that you always give and share with regards to your identity, your history. and your openness to share about your whole family history, but also you put it in beautiful photos and written form in the book. And the photos, the food photos, I was telling you off there and I have to share with you honestly, your husband is your business partner and he’s not only a concert pianist who’s, you know, unbelievably accomplished, but your websites and everything are all gorgeous and I know your husband does so much of that, but before we went on the air. I said, last year, I was going through your book and the photos are just so gorgeous. And I grew up as a young man in the advertising industry in New York City, growing up with some of the greatest photographers in the world. And I got to be exposed to and these photos are of that quality. And I’m like, oh, I want to give a shout out to Anthony. And then I’m reading the credits of the book that you took the photos of this book. I’m like, wait a second. You know, like in basketball, they say, well, is someone good on the offense or defense or they play both sides of the ball? How do you get to play both sides of the ball in everything that you do? Like, it’s just not fair that you’re loaded with so much creative talent. I mean, these photos, I mean, on every level are just I mean, they’re just amazing. It makes you want to cook or eat everything that’s in this book. It’s just incredible.

Joanne: Thank you.

John: How long did it take you to put this together? How many years you’ve been working on this and talk a little bit about the written side, the photo side and then the curation side of what to put in and what to leave out.

Joanne: Yeah, so I started working on this book almost immediately after 2021 and the launch of the first book. And that obviously begins with just a list of kind of dream recipes, like, okay, not sure I can make these, but here’s a list of about 120 recipes that I’d liked to see in Cookbook 2. And eventually, you know, that turns into, okay, let’s see if I can start developing these recipes. Now, because I am the photographer as well as the recipe developer, I have the option of making it extremely efficient, which means test the recipe, then photograph the recipe. A lot of times that works just fine. Sometimes I’m like, yeah, no, this recipe didn’t turn out, so we’re going to have to scrap all the photographs that I took and those will go into the trash and it’s a wasted effort essentially. Luckily for me, that happened very rarely, but that did happen. I would say that the big work, is developing the recipes, writing the recipes and photographing the recipes and then editing the photographs, that was about a year and a half of my time. Just doing that very intense work. And then probably another year of just editing the writing, going back and forth with the copywriters, making sure that we perfected the recipes. We also worked with about 80 different recipe testers to make sure that the recipes are rock solid.

John: That’s amazing. It’s just it’s just so beautiful. And this is just going to be another smash hit October 14th at onlineamazon.com, Barnes and Noble and all great bookstores in your area. You got to buy this book. This is just this is just another winner by you, Joanne. Let’s switch topics a little bit. Let’s talk a little bit about your new venture. Because this wasn’t enough and your 5 million followers, you know, on TikTok and on Instagram and everywhere else that you can be in social isn’t enough. Tell me about the aha moment that Anthony, we have to go and spread our wings a little bit more than what we’re doing. Talk a little bit about when that happened, how that happened and what’s the new venture that you and Anthony are launching. I’ve launched actually.

Joanne: I’ll start backwards. So have Korean Vegan beauty. This is the box for the cream. So we just launched that last week. That was our official launch. And the brainchild for this really started almost as soon as I started cooking Korean food in 2016. And the two things that I knew I would miss when I went vegan. Well, I would say the first thing I knew is I would miss Korean food. When I became acclimated to being vegan, not just for health or for the planet, but ethically, then I was like, well, what are the products that I’m using in my home that implicate animal suffering? And I realized makeup and beauty products is a huge source of that. And I realized that K-Beauty is not vegan friendly. And of course, I’d only ever used K-Beauty at that point because I grew up with that. And so I was like well, we got to do something about that. We got to come up with a vegan cruelty free K-Beauty line. But that’s not going to be me because I am very busy being a lawyer and I also have the Korean Vegan food blog. So I hoped that at some point somebody would do it. And, you know, we’ve definitely seen companies rise to the occasion, especially in the past couple of years. But there was, again, nobody that was vegan who founded a vegan company that offered K-Beauty. So about three and a half years ago, I was introduced to, you know, manufacturers who already had a successful K-Beauty business, but they really wanted to partner with somebody who was vegan and who could launch a vegan K-Beauty line. And I was like, well, this is something that I’ve always wanted. And, you know, luckily my brand, Korean Vegan, really aligns with, you know, that objective. And you know, after three and half years of, you know how it is starting a business, especially if you’re a lawyer, you’re going to make sure it goes exactly the way it needs to.

John: Every T is going to cross.

Joanne: Exactly. And so after a lot of back and forth, especially with the formulas, because we wanted to make sure that the products that we launched with were absolutely defendable. And you know, there’s no such thing as bulletproof, but as bulletproof as we could make them because I wanted to really believe in them. And because of that, it did take a little bit of time, but that’s exactly how Korean Vegan Beauty sort of launched. It’s very similar to Korean Vegan food. It was a need. I saw a need. I didn’t see a supply that made sense, you know, that had the story. And so I was like, well, I have the story. I need to figure out a partnership that will provide that supply. And that’s how we did it.

John: I’m on your site now, thekoreanveganbeauty.com. It’s a gorgeous website. How did you choose to launch the first two products that you did, the collagen smoothing shampoo and collagen cream? There’s a million, you know, beauty products anyone could put out. Why those two to start with?

Joanne: Well, we have this incredible technology, the vegan collagen, which is proprietary to Korean Vegan beauty. And we wanted to make sure that we really set a foundation for our customers and understanding, okay, these are the building blocks for a healthy, clean and not overly complicated beauty ritual. And that’s really what we want it to do. And to me, that starts with an all in one skin cream. I think a lot of people think that K-Beauty in particular, you got to put like 20 things on your face. There’s like a, you know, choreography to it. And that’s just, yes and no. My mother, she looks beautiful for being 76 years old and she certainly doesn’t have a 10-step routine. Never adopted one of those. Really just use a couple of things on her face. And so we thought, let’s start with a, you know, hero product, which is an all-in-one skin cream. that features vegan collagen that’s proprietary to us and Bakuchiol, which you probably already know this, this is the big hot new ingredient in K-Beauty that everybody’s talking about. And then with the shampoo, I mean, you can maybe see I have the longest hair ever and it grows very fast and I have a lot of it. And I really wanted to launch a product that I need. and that I want, and that was a shampoo that’s obviously vegan, cruelty-free, but also contains, again, that proprietary vegan collagen that’s going to help to strengthen my scalp, strengthen my hair, keep it looking beautiful and shiny, especially now that I’m 46. I’m at that point where my hair is starting to get a little dry and brittle, and the shampoo is amazing. My mother was, she was with me a couple of weeks ago and we were getting ready for an event, and she’s like, I don’t know, and she’s like, what are you doing to your hair? Your hair is the shiniest I have ever seen it in my life. This is totally unprompted. We weren’t talking about the shampoo and I was like, it’s Korean Vegan shampoo. You got to use it. Telling to my mom.

John: So now you have the website. Is the website going to be the place you could exclusively buy it or is it going to go also into stores? What’s your vision on how to get it out to the most people?

Joanne: Well, that’s, you know, obviously reach is a big thing. you know, retail is certainly in the five year plan. But as you know, I’m less about explosive growth at the beginning and more about building a brand that’s solid and sustainable. And so for us right now, the main place to buy it is definitely going to be Koreanveganbeauty.com. We also have a tick tock shop. You can buy it on Instagram and all of those tiny little shops that attend our social media platforms. But 90% of our sales are direct to customer on KoreanVeganBeauty.com. When we have the ability to scale and provide the kind of inventory as seamlessly as is necessary in order to get into retail, that’s certainly something that is going to be part of our big plan. But right now, I just want to sell the inventory we have in house and make sure that people understand what our brand is all about.

John: The collagen cream you put on before bed or you put it on in the morning? When do you use the collagen cream?

Joanne: Well, John, for you, I would recommend.

M2: For me, I’d love to use it.

Joanne: Exactly. You should use it because it’s amazing and it’ll keep your skintight and youthful looking without too much heaviness. I always do this. Right after, you know, you’re probably an active person. I’m an active person. I work out every single morning. I go and I run, I get my workout in, I take a shower, I wash my face, and then bam, I put that cream on before I put on my SPF and whatever I’m going to do for the rest of the day. You know, for ladies or for anyone who uses makeup products, I like to put a layer of the All-in-One Skin Cream on first because I want that vegan collagen as close to my skin as possible. And then I lay around with SPF and foundation or whatever I’m using for my makeup. The second time I use the All-in-One is of course at night. When I’m taking off all my makeup and I wash my face, I put it on again. You’ll be amazed at how taut your skin feels, very hydrated in the morning. It’s just a great feeling.

John: Not kidding. And then I assume as this succeeds, like you said, start small and grow, there’ll be an extension on this product line.

Joanne: Yes, so we’re already talking about what we’re going to add to our product lines. You know, we have a small, tiny little team, but we all have very strong opinions about what the next product is going to be. If you have any opinions, I’d love to hear that. But yes, we’re going to be adding to at least two more products to the line very soon.

John: So I’m going to tell you a quick story about my opinion on this kind of stuff. I believe in all this stuff. Everybody needs a little help somewhere and this is all important, very important stuff. So the hotel I stay in, because I have partners in Korea and I go there quite often, is being renovated. And so I had to switch to their sister hotel now, which is part of the same complex in the Gangnam district. And this hotel at night puts a mask by your bed so you get to use a mask. So I started using a mask now on the regular. So I’m excited for you to come out with the Korean Vegan mask because I’m all in on that.

Joanne: You know what? I’m taking this back to my team. I’ve got a team meeting on Friday. I’m going to say, you know what? We have at least one other team member who’s very pro mask, very pro mask, like a nighttime mask, a vegan collagen mask. Really, that would be so amazing. Super hydrating. Yeah, it would be great.

John: People love it. I mean, I love using it. It’s such a wonderful ritual to sort of remind yourself that It’s time to wind down and you’re to hit the hay. But before you do that, one last nice thing to do for your body. And my face is totally different because of it. It’s really improved. So I’m excited for you to come, but I’m going to use your products. I’m going to get the cream ASAP. I’m going to start using that and I’m going to give you my review. I’m very excited about that. Talk a little bit about the high wire act, the balancing act of now, of course, still being a lawyer. And do you practice any a little bit of law still?

Joanne: No. So this is a very funny story. Almost let my law license lapse because I was like, I’m not practicing anymore. Like, why do I keep having it around? then so randomly, KCAL News, they reached out to me because they’d seen my TikToks where I’m explaining lawyerly things, they’re like, Hey. Would you like to come on to the news and talk about the Menendez brothers? And I was like, okay. And I was like, sure. I was like, well, I have to be a lawyer to do that, I think. So, I renewed my license and ever since then. I go on pretty regularly now with KCAL News.

John: Oh, that’s great.

Joanne: Talk about like random law stuff. So, the last big one I did was the P-Diddy trial. And, you know, I came on almost weekly to talk about the trial, its implications, what to expect and all of those things. And it’s been so fun. So that’s the kind of lawyering I do, if you could even call it lawyering.

John: No, you’re basically like a legal analyst. Like a retired NFL player that now like, you know, Brady gets in the booth. You’re in the booth.

Joanne: That’s such a great analogy. That’s exactly what I’ve been doing. Yes.

John: That is the booth. I’m in the booth.

Joanne: Well, better than Brady.

John: Exactly. Come on awesome. That’s just so cool. Let’s talk a little bit about the juggle now. So five million followers, the blog, the launch of a new book. And this book is thick. And it took a lot to make this beautiful book homemade. The new cream vegan beauty line. How do you spend your days? Where do you spend? And then public appearances and all those other kinds of things. So how do you constantly reprioritize and your time and still have time for a life with your husband who’s your business partner as well?

Joanne: Yeah. Well, that’s a great question. I think that, you know, let’s start at the micro level. I, as you know, I’m a long distance runner and I have learned from training, you know, for the past decade now that I don’t operate well if I don’t build in rest. You know, I’m not productive and it usually ends up being a bad situation. So for example, yesterday I knew for the next week I’m going to be buried doing everything for the book, for the makeup, for the beauty line and you know number of other obligations that I have and so I took a half day yesterday where I only worked for the first half and then the second half I listened to a book or you know did crossword puzzles because I knew like if I don’t do this and somehow I’m going to burn out like on Wednesday and I just can’t afford to do that. So that’s a very micro level. I think at a macro level for me I I’m learning this as I go and I’m making mistakes. I’m letting you know, I’m not good at this quite yet, but I have to learn that there are certain things that even though I love doing them, if they’re not generating revenue and even worse, if they’re actually taking me away from the things that can generate revenue, then it does require a little reevaluation. And then sometimes I do have to jettison those aspects of my business. I wish that there were more hours in the day and there were more calories in my body to facilitate me doing all the things that I would love to do. But sometimes I have to make tough decisions. The other part of that, John, as I’m sure you know, is sometimes I have to figure out from an investment perspective, what’s still worth investing in, even if it doesn’t immediately generate a return. Do I see potential in this? And that’s always the really difficult part about prioritizing the verticals in one’s business portfolio.

John: I’ll give you a little tip on that issue. That comes as you continue on your entrepreneurial journey. The understanding of long-term payoffs on short-term investments, will come with more pattern recognition. Because pattern recognition, literally when you talk to Jordan or Brady or any of the greats in any business, Warren Buffett, it all comes down to pattern recognition. So pattern recognition is something that you just, again, hone and polish as the journey continues in any given expertise that you’re trying to work on. And now you’re on that entrepreneurial journey and continuing to hone and polish it. And you’ll just keep getting better and better at realizing, oh yeah, if I spend a little time here, this is a three, four, five year payoff, but this is going to happen. And that’s really what happens and what I found happens in the entrepreneurial journey.

Joanne: Yeah. Well, I think that there are some people who are better at recognizing patterns than others. You’re really gifted at that. I think I need to still look. I’m so like, I need all the data before I can derive conclusions, and I have no data. That’s really my brain.

John: Here’s a funny comment, though, to your point. Pat Mahomes literally arguably won now, you know, challenging Brady to be one of the goats. He said last year after he had won two Super Bowls already and four NFAFC championships, last year was the first time he said he felt perfectly comfortable behind the line of scrimmage because he could read any defense in the speed that he needed to before the ball got snapped. Same thing with you. It’s just a journey. The more you do it, the better you get at it. And of course, there’s going to be hits and misses along the way, but you’ll realize which one’s hit and okay, I’ll do more of that than in the future. And that just comes with time. It just comes with doing. You’re so young and your journey is still so new. It’s just going to come with time because you already have the innate ability. And one thing that Malcolm Gladwell doesn’t touch upon, he just talks about 10,000 hours, it’s not just a strict 10,000 hours. It’s literally putting in the time and then learning from the learnings that you get from and then using that as part of your feedback decision-making. It’s not just strictly because anyone then could just do 10,000 hours of something and think they’re going to be great at it and a potential go. It just doesn’t work that way.

Joanne: Yeah, you’re totally right. I like hearing that from people like you it makes me feel like, all right, I could do this.

John: You absolutely can do it. Because you’ve already proven you could do it because you’ve done it in other areas before. Look, you’ve mastered the law before you’ve mastered. You’ve mastered social media. You’ve mastered your blog. You’ve mastered the art of writing and writing a book that to be successful, which, by the way, is a lot harder than it’s ever been before. So I have no doubt you’re going to be successful in all of this. We’re to do a little lightning round now.

Joanne: I’m so excited.

John: You could do it, it is such a big deal. We’re, of course, promoting your new book, Homemade. You can have a meal with anybody, anybody dead or alive. Who are you going have a meal with?

Joanne: Oh, my God, Beethoven.

John: Very cool. Very cool. Did you grow up with music in your household?

Joanne: Of course, I started learning piano when I was six. I added violin when I was 10. I love classical music. And of course, I married a classical pianist. So yes.

John: You guys ever play together?

Joanne: No, because my husband’s like the best and I’m not.

John: I love it. What’s something recently? Because I know you love to share pieces of art that turn you on television, movies and things of that such. What’s something that’s recently moved you a lot? A piece of creative work, whether it’s writing, whether it’s movie, television, Netflix, whatever it is, what’s something that’s moved you most recently in your life?

Joanne: So about a month ago, I finished a book called A Little Life, which has gone viral on social media. And a lot of people have read it, and I took a long time to do it. I’d started it multiple times, but this time I was absolutely like, I have to finish this book and I finished it. And I’m telling you, John, it’s a book about New York City and about, you know, a few men who live there and the story of their lives and their friendship. And it was written by a Korean Japanese American woman. And it is some of the most lush, beautiful, technically unbelievably crafted writing I’ve read in a long time, certainly in modern fiction. I grew up reading classics like the, all dead authors. This one’s very much a lot. And I remember I was, you know, I’m writing right now a memoir and I told my husband the other day, I’m going to read my favorite chapter from that book until I almost have it memorized so that when I write the chapters in my book, maybe I can sort of channel some of the artistry and the symmetry and the poetry that she injected into her storytelling, into some of mine. It’s just it is powerful and beautiful writing.

John: Your memoir is going to be on your life?

Joanne: It’s going to be on my mother’s life, my grandmother’s life and my life. So it’s a story of the of the three women. And yeah, that one hasn’t been announced yet. We just signed the deal like we haven’t even technically signed the deal, inked the deal, but we agreed and just started writing it very recently. And that will probably not be out for a couple of years.

John: I hate to say I’m right, but Scott Turo, you better watch out. She’s coming for you. She is coming for you. That’s just going to lead to more great things after that. And I’m sure that one’s going to be amazing. Travel, I know you love Italy and I know you love South Korea but talk about if you could go anywhere in the world with Anthony that you haven’t been before. Where would go?

Joanne: I would love to go to Croatia. And it’s very random, but my sister-in-law, who’s much more well-traveled than I am, has told me it is one of the most beautiful places in the world. And I always like to travel to places where I can bring my camera and take memorable photos. So we went to the Dolomites last year and it was breathtaking. And I just love that experience. So I want to do something like that.

John: That is wonderful. Talk about what’s next. What is next? You know, the book is written and it’s published and it’s coming out October 14th, Homemade. You got to buy the book online or in a bookstore near you. The Korean Vegan Beauty’s out. First two products, the cream, which I’m going to be buying today, and the shampoo. What are you dreaming of next? You’re writing the memoir. What’s next? I mean, with you now, this is going to become, I’m sure a lot goes through your head when you laid out at night.

Joanne: Well, the memoir is honestly the thing to me. I think, John, like in thinking about my career and where I want to be in the next 10, 15 years, the memoir is really meant to introduce me as more than a recipe developer, cookbook writer, or a YouTuber, an influencer. There’s so many connotations to particularly those last two words. And I really want people to see me as a serious writer. And here’s the thing, John, I’m going to get emotional. I never thought I was a writer. I never thought I was a creative person at all. I was like, well, I’m good at math and I’m good at 90-degree angles and I’m good at analyzing things. I’m great with Excel spreadsheets and formulas, but I’m not creative. That’s why I married Anthony, he’s creative, not me. And so to be given this opportunity to write the story of my grandmother and my mother, which is really meant to amplify the stories of all invisible women and people who have been oppressed or silenced throughout their lives, is like, I don’t know, it’s this incredible dream that I never thought I would ever earn. And so this opportunity is everything to me. So to me, when answering the question, what’s next? There is no other next. Like that is the big next.

John: I love it. And by the way, you had faked. You totally had faked Anthony. You were really a creative with a law degree. And I think he should actually go out now and get a law degree because you totally you own the creative space. You knew you had it within you. But you were you were using as the as the headline, the law degree, it’s the opposite. No one can take these kinds of photos. Who’s not a creative. No one could write the kind of blogs that you write without being a master. You’re a master storyteller already. If someone wants to know how great a storyteller you are, they don’t even think of the memoir is going to be amazing. I’m sure I’m going to read it. I’m sure I’m going to love it. But you just have to follow your blogs. Your blogs are just each one is a little gem unto itself. And it’s like a whole jewelry store if you read them all.

Joanne: Thank you so much. It’s really lovely to hear that. It’s also like if anyone’s listening and you have this misconception about yourself, I think that’s the exciting thing about life. You could be in your mid 40s and still really, really surprise yourself.

John: Well, you said your mom, you mentioned earlier, your mom was, of course, a bibliophile unto herself and a poet, but she really was by training, by education and by practice, a nurse.

Joanne: That’s exactly right.

John: I wonder who’s following that that that that trajectory by training a lawyer, but really a creative in her heart and her soul.

Joanne: Yeah. And when given the opportunity, you know what can happen? That’s really the story.

John: It’s really the story. Well, with that, we’re going to leave for our listeners and viewers to find Joanne and all of her wonderful ventures go to theKoreanVegan.com, of course she’s on TikTok Instagram and YouTube and everywhere on social that you can that you engage with also go to KoreanVeganbeauty.com. It’ll all be in the show notes but I’m just saying it for those who are listening in the gym or driving your car or walking your dog you don’t have to take any notes it be in the show notes. Also, this amazing book, Homemade, October 14th, this is going to be a great Thanksgiving or Christmas gift for anybody this holiday season. Buy the book, Homemade. It will change your life. You don’t have to eat 100% vegan or plant-based, but if you start making some of these recipes, you could change your view on what food is to you and the relationship it has, and they’re all delicious. Joanne. You’re always a joy to have on. You’re an amazing human being. I wish you all the best in everything you’re doing. I can’t wait to read your memoir. How many years is this going to take to write, think? What do you think?

Joanne: Well, my deadline’s in next March, so I don’t have a lot of time.

John: So what’s your routine? You get up in the morning and when do you write?

Joanne: I wish it was like that. I have to write for so many different things. So usually what I do is I block out a day per week, where it’s like eight hours of just writing. And that’s why it does feel like torture sometimes.

John: Those eight hours, do you leave yourself little notes on what you want to put into those eight hours of writing?

Joanne: I just sit down and I write. I write for eight hours. Whatever comes out of that is what I send to my editor.

John: In quiet or do you listen to music or how do you do it? What’s your creative vibe?

Joanne: I’ve tried to listen to music, but I get distracted. I have found luck at the library, so I’ll just go to the public library where it’s really quiet and I’ll just sit down and write if I don’t find quiet here at home. But, you know, I’m new to this, John. I mean, I know I write the blog and I write the newsletter, but this is serious, serious writing. and I’m only just getting started. So I’m still trying to figure out like what process works better for me. But like I said, thus far the library has been very promising because I require deep quiet in order to really get into this. The other thing that I’m going to experiment with this week because I have such a busy week is waking up at three in the morning and writing then, which I’ve heard from other writers is actually potentially a productive time to write.

John: Because you need quiet. you ever wear headphones when you’re writing? Just put nothing in them?

Joanne: No, it’s not that I need like that level of quiet. I can’t have like distractions with Lulu barking or my husband playing piano, which is many hours of the day or, you know, vacuum running and things like that.

John: Got it. Understood. TheKoreanVegan.com, KoreanVeganbeauty.com. And this book, Homemade, October 14th, Joanne. I can’t wait to have you back on the show. I can’t wait to just keep enjoying all the success that you’ve had. You’re going to just keep doing what you’re doing and you’re going to keep making the world a better place. And I’m so grateful for your time today to share your journey with our listeners. Thanks again for all that you do.

Joanne: Thank you. And thank you to everyone who’s listening.

John: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking platform revolutionizing the talent booking industry. With thousands of athletes, celebrities, entrepreneurs, and business leaders, is the go-to spot for booking talent, for speeches, custom experiences, live streams, and much more. For more information on Engage or to book talent today, visit letsengage.com. This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit ERIdirect.com.

The Korean Vegan Homemade (book 2 coming out on Oct 14) and just launched a Korean Beauty Brand called Korean Vegan Beauty (www.koreanveganbeauty.com)