John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking engine revolutionizing the talent booking industry with hundreds of athletes, entrepreneurs, speakers, and business leaders. Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent for your next event. For more information, please visit www.letsengage.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. I am John Shegerian, and I am so honored and privileged today to have Jeanmarie Papelian. She is the executive director of Armenia tree. Welcome to the Impact podcast, Jeanmarie.

Jeanmarie Papelian: Thank you. I am so happy to be here to talk about Armenia Tree Project.

John: Well before we get into all the great things you are doing at the Armenia Tree Project. Can you please share a little bit of your biography and your background leading up to becoming the Executive Director of the Armenia Tree Project?

Jeanmarie: Well, sure. I grew up in Massachusetts and was connected to the Armenian Community growing up. When I was in law school in 1988, this earthquake happened in Armenia, and it was a terrible tragedy, and ever since then I started volunteering with organizations that were providing social and humanitarian assistance in Armenia and simultaneously, I developed a legal career in private practice, and I got to a point that I realized I was having more fun doing my volunteer work than I was doing my day-to-day law practice. Eventually I heard that Armenia Tree Project’s original executive director was retiring and this opportunity opened up; it was local, and I have always admired Armenia Tree Project, and here I am.

John: I just love always understanding the nuances, when you were practicing law as a sole practitioner, were you practicing litigation law or environmental law? Were you already a greeny and a tree hugger before this or was this something that was just born out of the crisis that existed in using the need?

Jeanmarie: Oh God. No, I was actually with a large firm and I was a trial lawyer. I did a lot of family law and so I was in my day-to-day work seeing people at their absolute worst. So you might imagine that the opportunity in my volunteer work to do something to help people who were going through genuinely hard times was very attractive.

John: Now, I see why you are here. Okay that makes total sense. So for our listeners out there who would like to find the Armenia Tree Project. Please go to www.armeniatree.org. So just as a little bit of background is– throughout the past 25 years Armenia Tree Project has mastered the art of growing and planting healthy trees in Armenia. Just for our listeners who do not really understand. Can you share a little bit about why your organization’s unique? The history over the last 25 years? What is your vision on where it should go, especially in these very unique times post-COVID.

Jeanmarie: Absolutely. So the way we got started was in the early 90s. People who are familiar with Armenia will recall that those are very dark times. Armenia had been a Soviet Republic, it suffered this terrible earthquake in December 1988. Then it got involved in a war with its neighboring Republic of Azerbaijan. Then the Soviet Union broke up. Those were really really dark times and Armenia was being blockaded by two of its neighbors. So in the early 90s, there was no heat, there was no water, there was no light. Carolyn Mugar who is an Armenian-American activist from the Boston area was in Armenia during those days and something that she saw that really struck her, was that people were cutting down the trees even in the city parks to burn them and heat their homes, and what Carolyn saw was that if Armenia survived all these other crises Armenia would be suffering from an environmental crisis. And so she started Armenia Tree Project which started on a very small scale in 1994. Just giving some trees to villagers– fruit trees and nut trees and what it has grown into is a big operation. Our mission is to use trees to help improve the standard of living for Armenians. We do that in a variety of ways. We still give trees to villagers– fruit and nut trees. We do community tree plantings where you might green a school yard or a churchyard something like that. We do environmental education. We run four nurseries and two environmental education centers. We are providing jobs. Year-round employees in Armenia– we have about 80, and then we hire seasonal workers during the Spring and Fall planting seasons– usually about a hundred and fifty to two hundred people each season. So it is a big operation and we are really making a difference on the ground.

John: There are so many questions I want to ask you. So being that you are a native of Massachusetts, how often do you go over to Armenia yourself?

Jeanmarie: Usually I go two or three times a year. Unfortunately this year, I have not been [laughter]. Nobody is traveling.

John: [Laughter] Everybody understands why so I understand that. So usually two or three times a year, that is fascinating. Armenia Tree project was doing this really important work, before sustainability became a thing here in America, before “An Inconvenient Truth” won an Academy Award and Al Gore won a Nobel Peace Prize, before the circular economy became a big deal here as well. Now that we are living through a fascinating time where our children are really sustainability-minded and green-minded and environmentally-minded, and young activists and legacy activists. Jane Fonda is still fighting the good fight and Greta Thunberg has brought in a whole another generation. Wow, this whole issue of climate change… How does that play a role in your mission and in your work?

Jeanmarie: Well, it is interesting. In Armenia, climate change is not a subject of debate. It is simply a fact. The farmers report their observations that they have seen, about how things have changed over the years. In the United States, it has become political. Many of our donors are in the United States. So when we teach environmental education to the children of the diaspora, this question comes up, about–is climate change real, and we can teach and give examples of how that works. But what we find…Let me talk for a second of our environmental education program. We have two environmental education centers in Armenia, and we invite children to come there and to learn and to do hands-on activities and even to plant trees and we also visit schools. We visit schools in the diaspora too, mostly in North America. Although we are expanding that and so we reach thousands of children every year. It is really important for us to do that because the next generation of Armenians, whether they are in Armenia or here, must be better stewards of the environment than their parents and grandparents were because if they are not, we are all in trouble. Now what we found is that children are very interested to know how they can be better stewards of the environment. They want to go home and teach their parents how to be better stewards of the environment. I have an amusing anecdote about a school that we were working with in Yerevan where we gave them a module on the water conservation for example, and the school then got some complaints from parents saying “What are you teaching my kid, they have become like the water police at home?”

John: [Laughter] That is a good thing. That is a good call that you get when you get some of those kind of complaints, that means, wow, the message is really getting through starting from the bottom, from the from the little ones, it is going in the reverse direction.

Jeanmarie: I love it. I love it. Yes…

John: That is awesome.

Jeanmarie: It is awesome. And so, you know, we go into the schools and we do that here and in Armenia. In Armenia, we started several dozen Eco clubs, which is sort of an after-school activity and the kids get together and decide what they want to do. In some instances, they have made benches out of reclaimed items for their school yard, that type of thing. Bunch of schools last year did this fun project where they made alternative Christmas trees rather than cutting down a live tree. They created trees out of found items and they were very creative, they were very artsy, they were very beautiful, and it was just a lot of fun for everybody.

John: That is wonderful and so beyond just trees, talk about the other environmental impacts that your organization makes.

Jeanmarie: Well, sure. Trees have environmental impact in so many ways. The work that we do is very important. So trees…We know that they clean the air, they reduce dust, forests create their own humidity. We have planted over a thousand hectares of new forest in Armenia. Forests create their own humidity, so they combat global warming. In Armenia, there are regions which are slowly undergoing a process of desertification. That is the groundwater is slowly drying up and we do not have good data post-soviet era, but there was data during the 20th century, during the Soviet era that was kept. And what we saw during the 20th century is that the rate at which the groundwater in the Ararat Valley was decreasing, was accelerating as we got towards the end of the 20th century. So maybe it is a leap to say that that was caused by human activity, but it was happening. And if you think about the Ararat Valley, any Armenian-American knows that that has been the breadbasket of that region for hundreds or thousands of years. So what would happen to the region if the Ararat valley became a desert? What would happen to Armenia, if it became dependent on its neighbors for water? Armenia is not in a great neighborhood. We do not have very friendly neighbors. So we want to strategically plant trees to preserve the groundwater, to preserve animal habitats, and to create food sources. So I have a couple of things to add to that. First, with respect to the animal habitats. I do not know if you followed this, but I would like people who are interested in Armenia to go on to Facebook and to follow WWF Armenia– World Wildlife Federation Armenia. There was a conservation project that happened in a forest reserve called the Khosrov Forest Preserve, named for an ancient king of Armenia called King Khosrov. King Khosrov liked to plant forests and one of the reasons he liked to plant forest was because he was a hunter, so he wanted to preserve the habitat of the animals that he liked to hunt. It had been twenty years since they had seen this leopard which is native to the region. It is called either a Caucasian leopard or a Persian leopard, depending on who you ask. Twenty years since they had seen a leopard in Armenia and two years ago he showed up in the Khosrov Nature Preserve, thanks to the conservation efforts.

John: Wow…

Jeanmarie: And so now they think there may be as many as a dozen leopards living there, and one was actually seen as far north as Yenokavan, which is up near Ijevan, you could see them very far north from there. It is a great conservation success story. So that is just one example, but preserving and planting forests help to preserve the habitats of animals that are native to the region. Armenia in 2016, I believe signed on to the Paris Accords and what Armenia committed to do as a country, was to double its forest cover by the year 2050.

John: Okay.

Jeanmarie: So that is a big undertaking. Right now, depending on who you ask, the forest cover in Armenia is somewhere around 10 percent. So to double the forest cover over the next thirty years, you would have to get to about 20 percent.

John: Right.

Jeanmarie: So it is… I do not know… 800 million trees. Let us call it a billion trees and–

John: So let me ask you this question. That is a brilliant point you just bring up. During your great work at the Armenia Tree Project and their history over the last 25 years, how has technology improved to the point where you could actually accomplish that goal? How is technology going to help you accomplish that goal now?

Jeanmarie: Well, so there is a lot of technology that Armenia does not have yet, but there is technology that is available. In fact, we were co-sponsor with the American University of our Armenia’s Acopian Center for the Environment last Fall of an International Forest Summit which was held in Armenia, and we brought in experts –regional and international experts– to talk about how do we tackle this problem of [inaudible] doubling Armenia’s forest cover over the next thirty years. One of the issues that came up was technology because you need to figure out where you are going to plant those trees. Are you going to plant the trees in a place where there used to be a forest, but now is farmland? Or you are going to plant a tree in a place where it has never been forest? And, what are the considerations you need to take into doing each of those things. What are the water sources? Where are you going to put irrigation? Where are you going to get the water? There are all sorts of mapping technology that exist now that did not exist when we started and also people… Every time somebody sees us on the internet–they forward it to me– people are talking about planting trees by using drones. So you have the drone drop a little package with the seed and it hits the ground. The truth is most of Armenia is so rocky that it would not work.

John: Ah, right.

Jeanmarie: But if, you know, the technology might develop to a point where it could work in certain parts of Armenia. I mean, those are things that we have to explore, and so there is technology and, I think over the next thirty years there will be greater technological advances which can help. When we first started doing what we were doing, for example, nobody was using drip irrigation, and one of our nursery managers went on a trip to Israel where he observed what JNF has done in reforesting Israel or creating forest in the desert. He came back with some ideas and we have been using drip irrigation, and it is a great tool and it is very simple. You can have a very high-tech system, but you can also have a very low-tech system which works really well to grow healthy trees. Growing healthy trees is no easy task, you know, sometimes they see these articles about–“this country is going to plant 30 million trees next year” and I always say that is great, but how many trees will there be three years after that? You can plant the trees but who is going to take care of them?

John: Great point. I always read the headline and think “Wow. How are they pulling that off? Can we pull that off at Armenia?” I am so glad you clarified that. You are saying if not done the right way and then cared for the right way. All of them do not survive, in fact a large percentage could die.

Jeanmarie: They could and in fact, I think Turkey had a big disaster where they had made some public pronouncement about planting millions of trees. A couple years later, most of those trees are dead. One of the reasons we have been successful, and of course, it has been through trial and error over twenty-five years. We were always successful.

John: Right

Jeanmarie: We have learned how to choose the site where you are going to plant trees. Is the soil suitable? Is there a sufficient source of water? Then we plant the trees and we take care of them. We have monitors who come and check them, at least monthly, sometimes more often than that. When we are doing a community tree planting which is in the school yard or the park or the churchyard in the community–the first thing we do is look not only at the soil and the water, but meet the members of the community and make sure they are bought into the concept. Are they going to help us care for these trees because we can not be there every day? Are they going to let us know if there is a breach in the fence or are they going to let their livestock munch on our baby tree? Right?

John: Right.

Jeanmarie: What we do is the first season we will only plant 30 percent of the trees and then see how they do, and if it goes well then we will plant the rest of the trees in the subsequent season. These community tree planting sites, and we have over 1,300 community tree planting sites all over Armenia and Artsakh. It is a very popular program. Just one example, there is a village in Armavir region called Aknashen and in Aknashen we have planted by the town hall, and so now there is a nice cool green space where you can come and sit. We planted in a couple other public places. We have given every household in the village which is over two hundred households– fruit and nut trees so that they can grow their own fruit and nuts and either use them to feed their family or to sell them. We have done environmental education for the kids in the local school. So it is a holistic approach and our goal is community revitalization.

John: I love that. For our listeners who just joined us. We have Jeanmarie Papelian. She is the executive director of the Armenia Tree Project. You could find her and her great organization, and get involved at www.armeniatree.org. For our listeners in Armenia [foreign word]. I am so glad to have you listening today. I love my homeland and I am so glad I was there last October and all of you treated me like a brother that I have missed for all these years. So thank you for listening to the Impact podcast. Jeanmarie, talk a little bit about your backyard nursery program. I read about a little bit but I would love you to share with our listeners what it means to you, what it means to Armenia Tree Project?

Jeanmarie: Sure. This is one of our most popular programs with our supporters and you will understand why when I describe it. So what we do with the backyard nursery is we give seeds to a household in a village. We teach them how to plant and care for the seeds and when the seedlings are ready to be transplanted to one of our planting sites, we purchase the seedlings from that family.

John: That is so nice.

Jeanmarie: So the majority of these families are located in remote villages where there are not a lot of income opportunities and so they are able to earn some extra money and stay in their home village. A couple of years ago, around this time of year, I went to the Village of Hovhannavank [?] which is where many of our backyard nursery families are located. This is a village…It is remote, it is hard to get to and there are not a lot of job opportunities and we have got a couple dozen of these families there, and I met some of them. Just some of the things that people said to me “Well, I used to grow potatoes in my yard and then I would sell the potatoes, and this is easier and I make more money and now I can buy potatoes.” Well, it does not exactly look easy to me. Right? I mean you have to take care of the trees and also, it is more than a year before your seedlings are ready and you will earn any money on it. But once they get going, they love it. Another lady told me “Well this year when I get the money, I am going to use it to get my children and grandchildren dental care”, and “Last year, I used it for their school fees.” and then there is a couple of older ladies who I just adore who say “My kids want me to give up this place in the village and move with them to Yerevan or to Russia and I want to stay here, and earning this money helps me stay here.” Well, I love that right? It is just a great great program.

John: That is so nice… That is so nice.

Jeanmarie: We have been expanding it a little bit. We are in two other villages besides Margahovit now. It needs careful management and support, so we are cautious in how we expand it, but it is a great program and really helpful for the people who live in these remote areas where there is not a lot of income opportunity.

John: Jeanmarie, share with our listeners any of the other key initiatives that Armenia Tree Project’s working on that you already have not well described in. You have already blown me away with everything that you are doing over there in Armenia, and actually around the world in diaspora. What else are you working on that is important to you and the key missions that you are working on?

Jeanmarie: Sure. I will tell you some of the things were working on. I described the community tree planting program already, and I described backyard nursery. We have a forestry program, which has planted, to date, over 28 hectares of new mill[?]. Over a thousand hectares of new forest at 28 different sites, in Armenia. We are working on expanding that program so that we can support Armenia’s initiative to double its forest cover over the next thirty years. We know how to grow the healthy trees with the highest survival rate. We have a nursery in a village called Margahovit in Lori region, which is supported by the Mirak family out of the Boston area, that is the nursery that supports our forest tree plantings. We are expanding some of the operations and adding new technologies. We have got a new state-of-the-art greenhouse there, which was funded by the Bilezikian family from Cape Cod, Massachusetts, and we have got seed testing capacity there, so some new technology which will help us do even better as we provide, hopefully, hundreds of thousands of seedlings to the government for the new forest. There is the Forestry Department which is… It is just amazing. You plant a forest, you think, I think, you know the forests in New England [?]. Well, our baby forests do not really look like that, but they will.

John: Yeah. Exactly, exactly.

Jeanmarie: They will, they will. We also have the community planting program, I talked about that. One of the things we are doing within community tree planting is intensifying our production of fruit trees. The reason that we are doing that is so that we can help more farmers become self-sufficient, to have more healthy fruit trees and what we have done is we have been grafting the native fruit varieties onto dwarf rootstock and I get in trouble when I talk about the technology because my knowledge of it is superficial, but what happens is a dwarf tree will produce fruit in a shorter time than a regular tree. So, if it would take the regular apple tree five years before it produced fruit, it might take the dwarf tree three years. But it will produce the native fruit. So we are doing this grafting project where we are producing fruit trees that are grafted onto dwarf rootstock so we can distribute them in large quantities to farmers and villagers who can produce fruit and they can sell the fruit, they can consume the fruit, you know, Armenians loves their fruit [laughter].

John: [Laughter] That is for sure.

Jeanmarie: Yeah, that is for sure. So we have got several varieties of apples, pears, plums, cherries, quince, you name it. Lots of local fruits–apricots. Everybody always asks about the apricots. Yes, we have apricots. The fruit tree production is something that we are very proud of and we also acquired some new technology at our nursery in Kajaran Village, which is a cold room[?] which allows us to work year-round and grafting the the fruit trees so that we can ramp up the production. At our nursery in Kajaran and in Margahovit Village near where we have the Mirak forestry nursery. We have two environmental education centers and I mentioned before that is where the students come and they visit and they get to do a hands-on activity, something really fun that we have been doing is when schools from the diaspora have a trip to Armenia, often times [crosstalk] high school trip. We invite them to come and spend a day with us. They will come and have a tour of the nursery, we will pair them up with students their age from a local school that we are working with, and they will do some icebreaker activities to get to know each other, and then we will all plant trees together. It is a great bonding [crosstalk].

John: That is awesome. That is wonderful. They could take that experience back to wherever they came from in the diaspora. That is wonderful.

Jeanmarie: Yeah, it is really great and kids feel like they have done something meaningful when they plant the tree in their ancestral homeland.

John: That is great. Then we feel like we own a piece of the homeland. We feel really part of the soil. It is really fascinating what you are saying. I really felt that way when I was there as well. That is important, to give everybody that connection. You know, I heard the Prime Minister speak two or three times while I was there in very small groups and one of his messages that resonated the most and he kept making a call for action to, was for no longer to have an Armenia and to have a diaspora; for us to become one, and I have never heard. I am fifty-seven years old now and I always grew up in New York and New Jersey and now in California, knowing the diaspora, an Armenia and a homeland– and to think about a unified Armenian group of us, and we are all home, and to be unified like that. I loved his call to action to say let us not be separate anymore. Let us just consider us as one, and come here as much as you can and encourage others to come here as much as you can as well. I thought that was just a real wonderful spirit of unification and feeling of togetherness that I never felt before.

Jeanmarie: Well, it is a great message and that is where he came up with the number when he announced last year that in October 2020 that Armenia was going to plant ten million trees. There are ten million Armenians in the world, three million of them live in the Republic of Armenia, seven million of them live in the diaspora. His idea was that each Armenian can plant a tree or there will be a tree planted to represent each Armenian in the world. That is how they came up with the number. Those of us on the ground doing the work say, how are we going to do that? But we will figure it out. Because of COVID-19, it got postponed for another year, but everybody is going to figure it out somehow. That is a lot of trees. But Armenia does not have ten million seedlings. We have some concerns about importing seedlings, but we are working on it. I am sure between the ministry of the environment and organizations like ATP, we will figure something out.

John: You know, one of my most important questions that I ask great leaders like you, Jeanmarie, is action points. It is one thing to learn and to listen from great leadership like you, people who are doing great things and making important impacts in the world, making the world a better place. But there are a lot of people out there that are on the sidelines that want to know from where they sit, how they could be involved. Can you share with our listeners how they can help your very important efforts if they are so moved to be involved after listening today’s episode of Impact podcast.

Jeanmarie: Well, absolutely. I think I mentioned that most of our support comes from Individual donors in North America. And so, the easiest way to help is to make a donation, to go to our website and click on donate and make a donation. We also have lots of volunteers who always want to help us, and we love that. We are a small team here in the US. We can not be in all the communities talking about Armenia Tree Project’s Mission, so people who approach us and say “I want to help”–we enlist as ambassadors. Go out in the community and talk about what Armenia Tree Project is doing yourself, to the people that you know. We do what we can to make it easy for people to do that. If you look on our website, you will actually see, we list some of the ambassadors and give examples of some of the things that they have done. There was a kid I met in Armenia last summer. He was there with his family, with his parents and his grandmother. He was thirteen years old and he had spent a day visiting our Kajaran nursery with his family and planted a tree. He said “I want to do something to help Armenia Tree Project”, and I spoke to him a little bit about what he could do. He went home and he approached his Parish priest and he asked if he could speak at the church picnic, and he spoke at the church picnic and he told the people there about the backyard nursery program that Armenia Tree Project has. He raised the funds at that church picnic to sponsor three backyard nursery families for a year [laughter].

John: Come on. I think he is aiming to be the next in line after you to take over as executive director. That is our kind of kid.

Jeanmarie: He is my kind of kid. I love this kid.

John: I love this kid.

Jeanmarie: Right? Then some other kid he knows who wants to be an eagle scout contacted them and said “Well I like to do something” “Well, I would love you to, I would love to have you do something”. We love people like that, who can help us spread the word. Honestly, we are doing this in Armenia because we love Armenia and we are…

John: Right.

Jeanmarie: …That is our heritage. But whenever you plant a tree anywhere in the world, we all benefit.

John: That is so important.

Jeanmarie: We were planting trees before planting trees was cool.

John: Right, right.

Jeanmarie: We all need to do this. It needs to happen. We have to preserve and protect the environment for future generations. So anyway that you can help, if you want us to come and talk to your community about the environmental impact and things that you can do in your own community. We would be happy to come and talk about it. We would be happy to talk come and talk to the kids. We have some great activities with children and lessons and hands-on things. So yeah, that is how people can help.

John: For our listeners out there, how can they find you beside your website on social? What is the best social places for them to find you, since so many people are on social media now.

Jeanmarie: We have a very active Facebook page, Armenia Tree Project. And if you are looking for up-to-date information or photos of what we are up to, following us on Facebook is a great way to do it, and we have great photos. Armenia is a beautiful place and we are planting these beautiful trees and beautiful places and we have always got great photos. So follow us for the photos if not for anything else.

[Laughter]

Jeanmarie: We also have an Instagram account. You can follow us on Instagram. Those are probably the two best places. We are not very active on Twitter, but we are working on that. So… [laughter].

John: For our listeners out there, get involved, help out any way you can, wherever you are. Every little bit counts now, whether it is money, whether it is being an ambassador, whether it is in diaspora or back in the homeland in Armenia. Get involved with the Armenia Tree Project and to find the Armenia Tree Project again, go to www.armeniatree.org. Jeanmarie Papelian. You are making an amazing impact both in Armenia and around the world. You are also making the world a better place, and I am so grateful for who you are and what you are doing. Thank you for being a guest today on the Impact podcast.

Jeanmarie: Thank you for having me. It was my pleasure.

John Shegerian: This edition of The Impact Podcast is brought to you by the Marketing Masters. The Marketing Masters is a boutique marketing agency offering website development and digital marketing services to small and medium businesses across America. For more information on how they can help you grow your business online, please visit themarketingmasters.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of The Impact Podcast, I’m John Shegerian and today, I’m so excited to have a friend of mine, an old friend of mine, even though she’s much younger than me. I’ve got Genelle Taylor Kumpe with me today. Genelle, we’ve been friends twenty-one years, I met you when you were what? Fourteen? Fifteen? I don’t even know anymore. What was going on?

Genelle Taylor Kumpe: Maybe thirteen, maybe, you know, I was a baby. No, I was a baby, that’s for sure but just starting out in my career. But thanks so much for having me, John. I really appreciate it.

John: It’s an honor. You’ve been, oh, there are so many things that we’re going to talk about today. But, A, we met twenty-one years ago through our common friend, Tim Stearns.

Genelle: Oh, yeah, love him.

John: ‘The’ Dr. Tim Stearns, right?

Genelle: Dr. Stearns.

John: Dr. Stearns and ironically, we were talking off-air earlier, he showed us and asked us to come to his neighborhood and Genelle, you and I literally lived two houses away from each other and we live in Tim’s neighborhood.

Genelle: Exactly. I mean, how influential can a person be, right?

John: Not much more. Except, choosing our spouses. I mean, he’s just amazing. So, you know, you’re a very, very important and influential leader here in the San Joaquin Valley besides being a mom and a wife and having two beautiful children who are teenagers who again, I see around the neighborhood all the time. You are the Executive Director of the San Joaquin Valley Manufacturing Alliance. And the COO of the Fresno Business Council and I want to go into those two organizations, all the important work you do there and the work that they do in the valley here. But before we do that, I would just love you to share with our listeners a little bit of your personal journey – where you were born and raised and how you evolved as a young lady and now as one of the leading women professionals here in the Central Valley of California.

Genelle: Great. Thanks. Thanks so much for allowing me to go through that. It’s been quite a journey and I really really enjoyed it and would never guess that I end up where I am currently but it all makes sense looking back. I was born and raised in another Valley here in California, the Salinas Valley, and went to school there. After High School, I knew while it was during High School, I knew that I wanted to go and study business and just always had a passion for that. So I ended up coming here to Fresno and studying at the Craig School of Business was super involved on campus with student leadership. I worked there, you know, I was there for all my classes and everything in the School of Business and just really got to know all of the professors and everyone and that’s how I came to know Dr. Tim Stearns and shortly after college, I started working with a community organization that offered a program that trained and taught people how to start their own businesses so I loved that. And it was a collaborative project with Fresno State and I transitioned over and started working back at my Alma Mater with Dr. Stearns. He hired me there and during my tenure, I was an integral part with Tim Stearns on creating the Lyles Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship that it resides on campus.

John: That’s such an important place. For our listeners who have no exposure to it, it is literally the Genesis of Entrepreneurship here in the Central Valley now. All thanks to Dr. Stearns and you and your hard work. It’s such a great, great, great place.

Genelle: It is. And it was formulated back when people didn’t even know what the word entrepreneurship was.

John: True.

Genelle: Let alone how to spell it. So, it was really hard in developing that and those programs that were led there were teaching people from kindergarten to adulthood about the importance of innovation and creativity and that was the right tools that they can be in control of their own destiny. And so my favorite part of even working there was working with young people and being able to physically see the light switch flip in a student who went from even having super low self-esteem to discovering their passion and believing in themselves and that they can do anything they set their mind to. So, while at Fresno State, I definitely was bitten by the entrepreneurial bug, I got partnered in three different business endeavors myself and it ran the gamut from a Chinese restaurant and after school program for elementary schools and then bringing an ever so popular now, blowout services to the Fresno Market. And I was always just busy and really really thrive in that environment.

So, I was living my best life being intrigued by starting new things. I took part in starting a different kind of rotary club for young professionals. And that’s where I met my husband of fifteen years now almost, Matt Kumpe and now we have our two beautiful children so just really love that. During my whole journey, you know, I lost my dad to cancer in 2011 and my belief is that we have one life and we never want to know what tomorrow’s going to bring so that became a really really stark reality after losing my dad. So, I just have this drive to create change in the community. During that time, I really delve deeper and saw another opportunity to serve, and after fourteen years at Fresno State, I left behind that secure job and had a really kind of a higher calling to become the Executive Director for Marjaree Mason Center, which is the Fresno County dedicated shelter and support services for those who are affected by domestic violence here. So that’s in Fresno County.

John: That’s a great place, too. What a great place.

Genelle: It is a wonderful place and it sees too many people and too many families that are affected by domestic abuse, unfortunately. So I worked there for three years and just really enjoyed being able to serve the community. So that really opened my eyes to things and changed my life forever. I mean, you cannot turn back once you are made aware of the trauma that people endure in their lives. But the ability to make a dramatic difference in a person’s life is so real but you have to be able to meet people where they are and not blame them for not knowing. But definitely teach them skills, give them tools to be able to have choices for a better life. After Marjaree Mason Center, I kind of took a step back and wanted to slow down a bit because that’s a 24-hour/seven-day-a-week job and it just took a lot, you know. I went on to teach at Fresno City College for a little while and taught soft skills and employability skills.

John: That’s great.

Genelle: Yeah, I mean it was great and it’s something that employers always say that is needed in employees and in the workforce. So, after working part-time, sitting still is not my strong suit, so I always presented yet with such a wonderful opportunity that I can’t pass up and that’s my current role here with the Business Council as COO and leading their manufacturing initiative, The San Joaquin Valley Manufacturing Alliance. And I am just so blessed to be here, yeah.

John: And for our listeners out there to find the Fresno Business Council, you could go to www.fresnobc.org and the San Joaquin Valley Manufacturing Alliance, go to www.sjvma.org, which one came first? The Business Council? Did you work with the Business Council before the SJVMA?

Genelle: Yeah. So the funny thing is when I was at Fresno State and working with the Lyles Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship, we worked a ton with the Fresno Business Council, of course, and so I’m finding myself in full-circle around the table with the same people that I worked with twenty-five years ago. But we all have so much more wisdom but more and better skills and so The Business Council did come first and then the Manufacturing Alliance about in 2014 was founded by The Business Council and incubated underneath them. So the Business Council did come first.

John: So, tell our listeners, what is the San Joaquin Valley Manufacturing Alliance for those who have not been exposed to it yet.

Genelle: Right. The Manufacturing Alliance is an organization of The Valleys Manufacturing leaders that they just really wanted to advance their industry. And one of the main focuses is to create a world-class workforce at the local level. So, we aim to really strengthen regional manufacturing and we take part in designing curriculum and training programs for students and individuals that are looking to upskill or re-skill. We provide jobs to interns for hands-on experience because that is so important for people and especially students with no experience. We really take pride in educating the public on the benefits of manufacturing careers. We also address legislative issues and we bringing together businesses and industry innovators for an annual event, which is a valley-made manufacturing summit.

John: And, Genelle, was the valley considered for you from Bakersfield all the way to Modesto. Is that your Valley that you’re working with?

Genelle: Yeah. So the San Joaquin Valley Manufacturing Alliance has our eight-county footprint, but, of course, we’re concentrated in Fresno and just the surrounding areas first because we want to develop a really strong presence here, get it right, and then be able to work outwards. So, most manufacturers that we work with reside in Fresno County or just right outside.

John: Approximately how many members have you built up over the years?

Genelle: So we have a membership of over a thousand members and it is really incredible. That includes not only manufacturing companies but the entire ecosystem of manufacturing. So that includes even government, nonprofits, the industry suppliers to manufacturing and education. So, there’s more than just manufacturers that are involved in the alliance and it takes all of them to make it a successful alliance.

John: That is so interesting. And so with regards to this tragic crisis that we’re all living through, we’re all faced with as just friends, Genelle, as human beings here in the Central Valley and as people who are very deeply involved in the business community, when you listen to the news, they say that the manufacturing sector is being greatly affected by COVID-19, the supply chain and other things. Can you share some lessons that you’ve already learned during these last 75 or 80 days or so with how manufacturing has been affected and how you think we’re going to overcome as a manufacturing sector the COVID-19 tragedy that we’re all living through?

Genelle: Yeah, it definitely is a tragedy and it’s so uncertain and it gets frustrating sometimes that we’re all just having to take it day by day because sometimes the news is changing day by day and when you hear about manufacturing, you bet it’s important. We have heard a ton about manufacturing, we’ve heard President Trump talk about it. In California, we’ve heard Governor Newsom and they all know the importance of the industry, that manufacturing industry provides good and opportunity jobs and it’s the industry that is going to bring back the middle class. And to see these businesses having to be shut down and people all over the place losing their jobs, it’s a tragedy for sure. But if you think about manufacturing from the moment we get out of bed in the morning to the moment we reach higher in the evening, we depend and rely on nearly everything that is manufactured.

The alarm that wakes us up in the morning, the bed we sleep in, the pillow we lay our head-on, the coffee we drink, the car we drive, the phones we’re talking on right now, everything – the food we eat even. We rely on manufactures because they’re the makers. They are incredible and this pandemic has shown such a spotlight on the industry. Just what I have seen, you would be amazed at how many companies have really pivoted during this pandemic to provide the PPE, personal protective equipment for the Health Care industry. We have several here in the Fresno region that are re-tooling from where they used to provide printing programs and posters and everything and now they’re making face shield, they’ve completely pivoted. They had to lay off their employees because they no longer had events and programs for and all the signage and everything but they scrambled and figured it out that, “Hey, we could be providing these face shields for the healthcare industry and I can employ my people, I could bring them back.” So we see things like that.

We have a charter school here in town that’s been created as strictly Career, Technical Education School with two tracks and one of them is manufacturing and while schools and campuses have been closed down, the teachers came to campus. They were working with their students on the campus and using the equipment to make these face shields for our local hospitals and more recently, they have even purchase extra equipment and the students are running the machines to make PPE from their own home.

John: Wow.

Genelle: Yeah, it’s incredible and the one thing that I have to say that I’ve seen from our members and the business owners, they genuinely care about their employees. They want to see them working and earning a paycheck to support their families. They’ve gone through extreme measures to make sure they’re operating under all the guidelines of our state and local officials and to really keep everyone safe and healthy and not spread the virus. But, I mean, there are so many things that they have to implement and you have to think that manufacturing floors and production lines, they’ve got equipment that’s basically stationary. So to move any of that, that’d be nearly impossible, but they have to figure out new ways of doing things so that their workers are far apart or there’s plexiglass in between them so that they’re protected. They just have to go through so much and I know a lot of businesses do, and business owners, they’re all suffering through this and it’s really really unfortunate and just can’t wait until things kind of smooth out and we figure out how this economy is going to reopen.

John: We want to all get to the other side, right? That’s just the whole goal now.

Genelle: Yeah, absolutely.

John: So what you’re saying if I’m hearing you right, you’re saying what you’ve seen in your membership and the folks that you come in contact with since you have such great visibility into the business community in the positions that you sit in is you you’ve seen a resilience of your membership, huh, to adapt?

Genelle: Absolutely. They adapt, they pivot, they retool, it is incredible how agile they are and the changes that they make at a drop of a bucket. It’s crazy. It’s really great to see.

John: For our listeners out there that are intrigued now what they’re learning and listening to you what they’re learning about the San Joaquin Valley Manufacturing Alliance and they want to join, how does that work? How does that courtship work of education, what could benefit the company and vice versa in terms of a mutually beneficial relationship?

Genelle: Yeah. So, if anyone wanted to become a member, it is a free membership and they don’t have to pay anything out. It’s upfront, you just go onto our website like you said, sjvma.org and they can join right there and it’s just such a great network. You know, I usually have a conversation with manufacturers or the business bit that is interested and they’re going a tour of their plant and facilities or just come visit them and see what they’re doing and really we bring together the manufacturers so that they have a shorter learning curve, they can learn from each other, they learn what is in their region and who they can connect with, they learn best practices. If they have training that they want to try something, they want to train their employees on, we could bring them resources for that. We just kind of get to know them and really figure out what their needs are, where they could benefit, what’s really keeping them up at night, and how we can help them. And that’s what the alliance is really all about and then just tell them about opportunities, where they can give back especially in the realm of education because that’s really priming their workforce, their pipeline of workforce. So the more they can contribute back to education and the training programs that are available, the curriculum that’s available, and those programs, the better they’re going to have to choose for those employees or potential employees in the future.

John: For our listeners out there who’ve just joined, I’m so excited today to have, Genelle Taylor Kumpe with us. She’s a longtime friend of mine but she’s also in very important positions in the San Joaquin Valley here in California. She’s the COO of the Fresno Business Council, she’s also the Executive Director of the San Joaquin Valley Manufacturing Alliance, which has over a thousand members. Genelle, with the visibility and relationships that you’ve built over your entire career, you really become the leader in many ways of the women’s empowerment movement whether you like it or not, you’re really leading that lean-in generation here in the Central Valley, talk a little bit about what it’s like being a woman leader in times were and in a community that is very in many ways conservative still and also in some ways male-oriented still? How is that, as you’ve broken through so many barriers or glass ceilings or whatever you want to call it, how has that been in terms of your journey and how is it today?

Genelle: Yeah, so, of course, being a young woman, a young professional woman at the beginning of your career, I definitely have to prove myself. But I think if you just stay at the course and do your work and prove that you’re capable, that you’re caring, and that you give a hundred percent, your work speaks for itself. Yeah, I used to think, oh gosh, I have to wear extra high heels so I’m taller than the men in the room. I’m a tall person anyway at 5’9″ but putting on three, four, five-inch heels makes a little bit better, but nowadays, I think I’ve seen quite a shift in our community and in the workforce itself, but we’ve got some wonderful, wonderful men that I work around and I work with and some of them even say that they don’t work on any projects unless they’re WIC projects, W-I-C. And I’m like, “WIC, I have nothing to do with WIC, you know, thinking what is this?” And he says, women-in-charge. So, you know, there’s a lot of strong women in this community and in this world, I think we’re seeing a lot of women leaders come to the forefront and they’re being a lot more respected now and there’s a lot of things than barriers that us, as women have had to bust through but I think if you just show that you can prove that you can do the job just as good or better than the men that are surrounding you, then, you know, I think it just takes us working together, you need both. It’s been great for me but I have been fortunate enough to work around very caring and responsible citizens and stewards in our community. So they value the opinion and the work of women. Yeah.

John: That’s awesome. And for our listeners out there that want to connect with Genelle or learn more about what she’s doing with the great organizations that she’s with, you could go to www.fresnobc.org or www.sjvma.org. Genelle, you’re working on a webinar series with the alliance right now, can you share a little bit with our listeners what’s in the pipeline? What does that webinar series is going to be about and why is that important to the important work that you’re already doing?

Genelle: Yeah, so we’ve had to pivot too and start putting some lessons online and really be a resource for our members and the business community. So, some of the webinars that we’ve done had to do with some of the cares act information and resources that are out there and just really kind of guiding people through that, business owners through that and what they can take advantage of, how it works. And beyond that, what we’re working on is putting together a sales series because right now, I think a lot of businesses are looking in every nook and cranny of how they could create more revenue and how they can strengthen their salesforce and get beyond this whole pandemic. So, how are we going to sell differently in this world today? Because it’s not going to be the same. We’re not going to be just popping in people’s place of work and it doesn’t work that way any longer. Some of the other things that we’re working on, putting together as far as webinars go, is also cybersecurity and doing a whole series on that because with things being put online even more so than they were in the past. You have to make sure that you’re going to be secure. So looking at doing some of that and then, COVID-19 and tax resources and R&D tax credits, those types of things. What can businesses take advantage of currently and how can we navigate through what we’re going through with this pandemic?

John: That makes so much sense. When do you think they’ll be available for your members and others that want to avail themselves of it?

Genelle: The accounting webinar will be on May 27th at 10 a.m. and about Pacific time and then the other series starts in June, the second week of June and those will be going on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 9:00 a.m. So we’ll have that up on our website and how to register and everything will be right on there very soon.

John: Wonderful. And will you be hosting these webinars? You’ll have various of your members on these webinars with you?

Genelle: Yeah. So we’re going to have our partners that will be on there with us. We are hosting it as the lead organization. We have sponsors and other organizations that are doing that. Our tax webinar as with our partner, Moss Adams and they’re just really smart when it comes to all the ins and outs and things that you can use as a business owner. And then with the cybersecurity, of course, we’ve got experts on there doing that as well as at their sales theories. We’ll bring experts in and we do that even with our membership meetings and everything. We like to bring in people that are experts in the subject matter and help us navigate through that.

John: That’s just wonderful. You know, Genelle, over the last 21 years, you’ve been exposed to a lot of commerce and business and enterprise here in the valley and you are one of the creators of the Lyles Center, which is literally still Ground Zero for Innovation and Entrepreneurship here in the Central Valley and we’re so lucky that you and Tim and all your hard work created that. You’ve seen a lot and met a lot of people and been involved with a lot of different programs, looking back now and although you’re very young still, what are some of the programs that you’re most proud of, that you’ve been involved with?

Genelle: I think when it comes to the Lyles Center and Entrepreneurship and really some of the programs that came out of there, I think these youth programs, and that’s what I’m really passionate about is prevention and intervention and youth and that’s a huge passion of mine. So I think, being able, you know when I saw like the high school programs and even elementary school programs to teach kids about going after their passion, discovering their passion, and creating a business out of that, being able to really look inside themselves and know that they’re worthy, that they have something to contribute to our society, become a productive member of society, these kinds of entrepreneurship programs that we brought to the schools and to be used, that’s what’s really important. They make people feel like, “Oh, I am important. You do see me. I can contribute.” And they’re not just invisible wallflowers or don’t think that they’re not good enough to do these things and build confidence in youth and that’s just so important for our society and I am most proud of that and just looking at that but you know going on through with the Business Council and the Manufacturing Alliance, I just think the work that we do is incredible. Really having people change their mindset and look beyond their single dot and their silo but just how can you contribute back to your community? And what is the legacy that you want to leave? Think of yourself as a citizen first, not as a boss or business owner, but how you can contribute to make the community a better place and how you’re going to leave this society better off than where you found it, I just love and just am so passionate about the work that I’m doing currently.

John: Speaking of working with young people, a lot of our listeners are up-and-coming or aspiring entrepreneurs and they want to not only make a paycheck but they want to make an impact and they’ve learned that a lot from the Lyles Center and what you and Tim worked on for a long time and they’ve just learned it in their readings and what’s going on in the world where their generation want to really make the world a better place. What advice do you have for up-and-coming entrepreneurs who want to make the world a better place, want to make an impact, but start a business and be their own boss?

Genelle: So I would definitely say, do your research and that is something that all people need to do if they want to go into their own business and make an impact or have some kind of transformational change. Definitely, if it’s something that you truly love and want to do, volunteer in something about that’s like it if there are other organizations that are like that, volunteer for them. See what’s out there, see how others are doing it. What works? What doesn’t work? Is it going to support your lifestyle or get you to the lifestyle that you want? This is about doing your research and talking to people and seeing how things are done. But, number one, I’d say that people need to go after something that they are passionate about. Something that doesn’t feel like it’s a job, something that’s fun for them, and I always say, when it stops being fun, that’s your cue to exit because life is too short. So definitely go after your passion.

John: Life is too short. And, Genelle, I just want to say thank you for coming on today. And for those who want to find Genelle or learn more about her great organizations, they can go to www.sjvma.org or www.fresnobc.org to find her new webinar series, to learn more about her great work, to join these great organizations, that’s how you do it. You just go to those websites. Genelle, you are welcome back on Impact anytime you want, to talk about business, to talk about what’s going on here in the central part of California with regards to manufacturing. You have just been a wonderful friend for twenty-one years. You are a tremendous leader in our community. You’ve made a huge impact already. You’re going to continue to make huge impacts in the future and thank you for joining us today.

Genelle: Thank you so much, John, for having me. It’s been such a pleasure on Impact and I look forward to coming back again. So thank you for the open invitation.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy; and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cyber security focused hardware destruction company in the United States, and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. I am John Shegarian and I am so excited and honored to have back again, Lisa Curtis. Welcome back to impact, Lisa.

Lisa Curtis: Thank you so much for having me, John.

John: You know, Lisa, last time you were here, it was green as good and you were cooking up and dreaming of creating a business you had… I think at that point written a business plan for a company that you would envision called Kuli Kuli and you are the founder and the CEO. And just truth in advertising for our listeners, I was so enamored and inspired by your great story, which you are going to tell. I am going to ask you to share again with our listeners today because there is a whole new generation of young and new entrepreneurs that want to be inspired by you. I became an early investor and I will tell you what, your journey has been inspiring, fascinating, and just wonderful to watch from afar all the success you have had. So Lisa, let us start from the beginning. Talk a little bit about` your background leading up to Kuli Kuli? And what did you do when you got out of college and how you even came up with this great idea?

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. So I first came to Kuli Kuli actually through the Peace Corps. So I joined the Peace Corps after college and went to Niger in West Africa and was placed in a very small rural village with no electricity, no running water, you know. A very simple life and I actually loved it. And the only thing I did not loved about it was that as a vegetarian, I had a really hard time getting enough nutrients in my diet. I was basically eating rice for every meal. And so at the time I was volunteering in my village’s Health Center and I turn to a couple of the women there and I said, “What can I eat that will make me feel better? I am just so exhausted all the time and clearly just not getting the right nutrients.” They literally pulled these leaves off a tree and mix them into this peanut snack that they call Kuli Kuli and said, “Eat this. It will make you feel better.”

And I had never thought to eat tree leaves before. I have never heard of Moringa. It seems a little strange but I trusted these women. At that point, I would do anything to feel more energized. I started eating it and it just really had a profound impact on me. Within the span of a week or two I was like, “Wow, I just feel so much more energized and better able to do all the things I want to do. What is this plant?” So I did a little research the next time I got into a capital city and I had some internet and I was just blown away by Moringa being this tree that grows all over the tropics. It actually thrives in the hot dry places like Niger. It is arguably one of the most nutrient-dense plants in the world. It is packed with protein, calcium, iron, vitamins, and it is great for vegetarians or just anyone who is looking to get more natural energy from a really nutritious plant. I got hooked. Originally, the idea was actually to just see how could I encourage more women in my village to be growing it and eating it locally and cooking it locally since women were the ones doing pretty much all the cooking in my village.

So I started talking to them about Moringa and the the big kind of response that I got back was, “Well hey, we are not gonna grow a crop that we cannot sell. We are really busy here, we are farmers, we are raising ten kids, we are doing all these things. So we are not going to grow this just because you think it is good for us. We will grow it if there is a market for it. Can you help us create a market for it?” At the time, I was twenty-two years old. I had no idea what I was signing up for. I had never worked in the food before and had no experience in business and I was like, “Sure. I will help you sell Moringa in the US.” And so long story short, that is really what the past ten years has been for me. It is fulfilling that promise and helping small farmers, predominantly African women, sell really high quality Moringa in the US. We are now in eleven thousand stores.

John: Unbelievable. So wait a second. Let us talk about where we left off. You had just about written and finished the business plan and started raising money. What year was that? Approximately?

Lisa: Yeah. I know. I am like trying to remember. Where did we left off? I believe that was two thousand fifteen, right? Sort of quick timeline, I got back from Peace Corps in two thousand ten. You know, I did not have any money because Corps paid me seventy-five dollars a month. So, you know, literally living at the poverty line in Niger. Everyone I talked to was like, “You should go work at a start-up before you start your own.” And those exact words that really resonated with me was, “Learn how to fail on someone else’s dime.”

John: Smart.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, so I actually returned in two thousand eleven when I officially returned. Two thousand fourteen, I worked at another startup. Then the end of two thousand thirteen I said, “This is an idea that will not go away.” Like you said, I put together a business plan. I had started to test the farmer’s markets and other places and I was just like, “I need to do this.” So I decided to take the leap and quit my day job and I have not looked back since.

John: So for our listeners out there who just joined, we have got Lisa Curtis who is a friend of mine and a young woman entrepreneur, the founder and CEO of Kuli Kuli. To find Lisa and her great products at Kuli Kuli, you could go to www.kulikulifoods.com. That simple, kulikulioods.com. So from business plan to eleven thousand stores, there is a story there, Lisa. Can you share a little bit about that journey? Because that is not an easy journey for the most seasoned entrepreneurs. For someone like you in five short years to raise money, probably more than once, and to then go earn that many doors, please share a little bit about that part of the journey.

Lisa: Yeah. I am glad you double-clicked because I think sometimes people are like, “Well, I had this idea and then it turned into this business,” and as we both know, there is a lot of blood and sweat and tears that go into turning an idea into a reality. So, you know, the first thing was really figuring out whether people buy it. And so that was one of the things we validated at the farmers markets since that we were making these Moringa Bars by hand at a commercial kitchen. When I say we, I came back from Peace Corps and recruited some of my childhood best friends who had experience in food and tech and design. I brought them together to come come do this crazy idea with me. There were four of us and initially, everybody had day jobs and this was kind of a side hustle and then when I quit my day job, that was the point where I really had the very glamorous CEO job of driving around store to store begging the buyer at the store to put our product on the shelf and promising that if they put the product on the shelf, that I would stand there and pass out samples and sell through at least half the product. That was exactly how we got probably our first almost fifty stores. I did that for close to a year and it was not glamorous work. I can tell you that.

John: So are you here to tell me, Lisa, that being the founder and an entrepreneur and CEO is not always just bright lights, big city, and great cocktail parties and first class travel?

Lisa: If that is what it is like for you, I need your job.

John: No, it is not for sure. But it is so important to talk about that. You know, the great Michael Jordan, they are focusing on his final years of his career with the bulls. It is on HBO now and so many people who live through that period, and also who did not live through that period, are getting to revisit or for the first time get exposed to his greatness. In the last episode, the eighth episode of this series, it was the end of the eighth episode and he was being interviewed and he broke down and he said, “Winning has a price and Leadership has a price.” I would love to hear your thoughts around that as a woman leader, winner, CEO, and entrepreneur.

Lisa: Yeah, and I like that quote a lot. You know, a phrase that stuck with me from my village in Niger, it was in the local language, it means you drink pain. This is something that people in my village would literally yell at me at like seven in the morning when it was already 110F in Niger. I was running around the village, and they are like, “Why would you run in this heat? And why would you run at all?” They spend all their energy in the farms. In my mind, being an entrepreneur sort of goes to figuring out what you are willing to drink pain for and understanding what are the things that you are just so passionate about that you will sign up for what is often a decade or multiple decades of a lot of struggle. A lot of joy but also a lot of struggle.

John: There is a lot of struggle and you are right. That is a fascinating quote. I love that. You drink pain.

Lisa: It is very visceral, right?

John: It is very visceral. I mean, there is no misunderstanding that one. They want the communication to be very direct there. They do not want you to misunderstand their words. That is for sure, right?

Lisa: Yeah. Well, I got that one.

John: Wow. Okay. So let us step back a little bit. Moringa helped you recover when you were over there. It helped you feel stronger and better and you had an “Aha!” moment. You wrote the business plan, you raise some capital. For our listeners that have not yet been exposed to it, let us start with square one. Sell a listener that has not had the opportunity and the joy of enjoying some of your Moringa. What are the main benefits of Moringa? Anyway, just the main benefits for anyone who is going to want to buy it after the show from all the great outlets that you sell it from.

Lisa: Yeah. So in many ways, Moringa is the perfect food. It contains protein, it has a complete protein for all of your essential amino acids, which is great for vegetarians. Anyone trying to eat more plant-based. It has a lot of calcium, a lot of iron, a lot of vitamins, a lot of antioxidants, and a lot of really powerful phytochemicals that have been used in ancient medicine for a really long time. In western medicine, we are just starting to see some of the abilities of Moringa to help regulate blood sugar levels for diabetic patients. Also for a lot of new mothers to use it to help enhance lactation or milk production. So it is a really cool plant that is not new to a lot of the world. It is all over Africa, South America, Southeast Asia, and I feel just lucky to be the one who can help bring it to the US and get more Americans to experience the magic of this plant.

John: Before you had this vision of your business Kuli Kuli… and again for our listeners who want to find you or find your great products, they could go to kulikulifoods.com. The Moringa really did not exist in an easy to access food yet before you envisioned this in the United States, is that correct?

Lisa: Yeah. So we are definitely the first brand to really bring it to the US. There are a couple other brands that sell Moringa powder or Moringa pills. But certainly, nobody is selling it in value-added products and nobody is selling the quality or quantity of Moringa that Kuli Kuli does. It is kind of cool. We are now at the point where we can confidently say that we are the largest Moringa company in the world.

John: That is amazing. And so you started with what product, and now how many Suite of products do you have? So how can our listeners and their family members and friends enjoy and access your great Moringa products?

Lisa: Yeah. So we started with our bar. It is actually the first product we launched, fruit and nut bars with Moringa. Then we launched the pure Moringa powder, which is great for smoothies. Even Savory dishes, like Pesto’s and curries. Then we launched the smoothie mixes. And more recently, we launched the wellness shots. So three different product lines, shots, bars, and powders, all available on Amazon. Also all available on our website, kulikulifoods.com.

John: Nice. There is a lot of wins here. When I talk about impact entrepreneurs, you are probably why I renamed green is good, which was focused more on sustainability and those that were just doing good and to those who are creating an impact. If there is ever an impact entrepreneur or business model, you are to me the aspirational person and brand. For our listeners out there, not only is Lisa a great woman entrepreneur and CEO and founder, but there is lots of benefits that come with her great brand. I want you to explain one of them. First, why is Moringa itself good for the planet?

Lisa: I am so glad you asked that because you know, I have been an environmental activist for a lot of my life and I still am. One of the things that I think is so cool is the fact that I am selling tree leaves because it does not hurt the tree. The tree keeps growing, you can harvest it through time through three to four times a year, and we have planted over twelve million trees through our supply chain. We plant them in ways that help reforest the soil where it is creating these living forests of Moringa trees plus other crops intercropping as much as we possibly can. We have found that there is just so many benefits of planting a tree and planting a crop that is naturally regenerative.

John: That is just wonderful. Let us talk about some of the other benefits. So when you started the business, how many women were harvesting this product in where it is from in Africa? And now, how many women do you have doing that? Why is it important to their lives? How does it emancipate them and make them more independent in their hometowns?

Lisa: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I would say that there were already thousands of women who are harvesting Moringa just for like personal use like a tree growing in their backyard or that kind of thing. But I think the big difference and what so many of the farmers we work with tell us is that having the ability to earn an income through selling this plant and harvesting this plant has been incredibly transformative. When we started, we were working with a co-op of twenty women in Northern Ghana. We are now working with over two thousand farmers. Primarily women, there is some men in there, too. We are not hating on the men, and all across eleven different countries. So largely in Africa and then some and South America and Southeast Asia as well.

John: That is amazing. I am not great at math, but that is like a hundred X. That is a hundred times up in in five short years.

Lisa: Yeah. Business went from one store to eleven thousand stores. That is a pretty big growth, too.

John: That is incredible. Let us just focus on the woman now back in Ghana. If they did not have a commercial business opportunity like this instead of just in their backyard type of harvesting, would their life be much different? Does it trend more negatively as opposed to them having the economic independence that this affords them?

Lisa: Yeah. I think one of the things that is really exciting for me to see is just the power of them having an income that is outside of the small things that they can sell on the in their local. Just other other smaller ways that they can earn income locally, which are just a lot of those opportunities are so limited for women in the places and communities that we source from. So for have them to have a year-round income that is so much greater than what they can get locally has been truly transformative. We have heard so many stories of women being able to send their kids to school and pay those school fees, being able to buy better food for their children. One woman who we have partnered with who has had five children and her husband passed away, she was basically kicked out on the street and she ended up starting this Moringa business. We have helped to support it. She now employs two hundred, mostly widowed or other disadvantaged, women in her community. It is stories like that and people like that that make me excited to drink the pain and get up and do this every day.

John: That is amazing. The impacts that your business enterprise have are not only the great example that we need more of in the United States and beyond of woman, founder, CEO, entrepreneur, but it is also planet. It is also people, other people, the woman that you employ, where Moringa is harvested, and their families and communities. It is also health. Everyone who comes in contact with this, their health improves. Their health improves. It is amazing. The impacts are just everlasting. Let us talk about one door to eleven thousand. I know that it is an incredible feat. This is just not numbers. You just do not make a few phone calls and take a few people to drinks. I mean, as you said, and I know you said it it somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But it really is not because even at my age, I am much older than you, and our business has even evolved for a longer period over eighteen years. Begging is never out of the question. So as you said, I mean, whatever it takes. Talk a little bit about how do you achieve that much success? Eleven thousand doors in five years is a ton of success in the retail business because there is thousands of new skews every year fighting for precious retail space, even precious online space now. Talk a little bit about how you got there from one to eleven thousand.

Lisa: Well, it did not happen overnight. It has been been a journey. I think a lot of it was finding people who would believe in us and who could get behind what we are doing. I give a lot of credit to Whole Foods Market. The Whole Foods buyer in Northern California, we came to her with these handmade Moringa bars and like very clearly knew very little about the food industry. And she said, “Yeah. I want to bring it in.” I think that first yes helped prompt a distributor we could sign to work with us, and then we started to getting more yeses. I have a sort of skill I have been cultivating for a while that I call Charassment, charming harrasment, which is not really harassment. But I am just not afraid to get no for an answer, not afraid to ask. So I spend a lot of time making crazy asks of, “Hey, Walmart. How about Moringa? This super foods is amazing. You should put it in your set which maybe seems crazy as a product that most of America does not know about.” But it worked. We are now in two thousand five hundred Walmart stores. And you know, I think having the audacity to ask the questions, for me, it really is rooted in the fact that I just think this is an amazing plant that has an amazing impact on the world. I want everyone to have access to it. And so making that happen is a big driving force for what I do.

John: Charassment. I have lived fifty-seven years. I never heard that word, but I am going to use it and I am going to give you credit in the future because that is a great, great word in the combination of two words, charming harassment. I mean, that is just a new form of oxymoron that I have never heard of. But I mean, it is great.

Lisa: I am glad you liked it.

John: So, obviously when we are taping this podcast today, we are still living through this tragedy period in the world history of the COVID-19 pandemic. A couple thoughts that I like to just ask you about is how have your sales held up in your stores like in Whole Foods during this pandemic? Are more people reaching out and being thoughtful about their health? Is that a trend that you are seeing in terms of more use of your great product?

Lisa: Yes. That has been one of the cool things that we have seen. It is that there are so many people looking for products that can boost their immunity and boost their energy levels. I am not saying Moringa is a cure-all here in any sense, but it is highly nutritious. What we know is that it is a really good nutrition and has really amazing phytochemicals, medicinal components that play a really strong role in boosting the overall immune system. We have seen incredible growth. Our sales were up seventy percent in Whole Foods and up at a lot of other retailers as well. It has been really exciting to just see how much our product has been helpful.

John: That is a testimony to your great sales and it is also a testimony to your wonderful product that is just both delicious and very nutritious. And as I have shared earlier, not only am I an investor, but I am a consumer of your product. I have been a vegetarian for forty years. I believe in what you are doing. It just packs a lot of punch for what it is. It is just delicious. We are going to get to the other side. We were talking about this a little bit off the air, Lisa. We know we are going to get to this another side. What is your goals in terms of doors and growth in the United States for Kuli Kuli after we get to the other side of this pandemic?

Lisa: Yeah. I have got big goals that have certainly not been been crushed by the pandemic which has been delayed a little bit. One of the things and one of the reasons that I named the company Kuli Kuli, and not the Moringa company, was really had to do with this idea that there are so many other incredible super food plants like Moringa in the communities we source from and other communities. Those would be so beneficial to Americans and so beneficial to those communities if we could find ways to unlock or have access to the US market and bring those incredible plants here and informing sustainable supply chains that work for everyone. So that is where we see us continuing to grow and expand. We still focus a lot of Maria because we think it is the most powerful plan out there, but I think there is other plants. We have started to pair some of these amazing botanicals alongside Moringa. If you have seen our new green tea wellness shots, they have Kamu Kamu and Ashwagandha and all these herbs that are just like so powerful and really complement Miranda and different ways. I am super excited as our brand continues to grow so we can help more Americans discover the power of food as medicine and medicinal plants. You know, Aspirin comes from a plant. So much of the medicine we consume is plants and I think sometimes we forget that.

John: Obviously, you have had massive success and I could not continue to succeed here in the US. But since the pandemic has hit the entire our world and exposed us all to our breakdowns and healthcare deficiencies in our own health and wellness, is it foolish for me to ask you that about expansion abroad, do you have your eyes on Kuli Kuli going to Canada, South America, Europe, and Asia, eventually as well?

Lisa: It is a good question. We actually have a very small presence in Canada and a very small presence in Mexico and to other countries that we are selling to right now. I think there is so much opportunity in the US that I still feel like there is a lot of work for us to do here. But we do think that there is, as we continue to grow, we certainly want to give give everyone access to this incredible plant and these great products. It is on the roadmap, but I do not think it is number one.

John: I got it. Well, one of the trademarks of a great entrepreneur is focus. So focusing on the US, which is still as you said, a massive opportunity in the years to come, there is no shame in that and that strategy. I think that is brilliant on your behalf. Is there anything you would like to share with our listeners? We have a huge listener base, Lisa. Not only existing founders and CEOs, but a lot of aspiring young people in high schools and in universities that want to be the next Lisa Curtis. Is there any words of wisdom you would like to leave before we have to say goodbye for today?

Lisa: Yeah. One of the things that I often hear from people who are interested in starting businesses is kind of a litany of reasons as of why they cannot do it of, “Oh, I do not have an MBA” or you know, “I have no background in business. I am not good at finance. I have not worked in business before. Who am I to think of starting a business?” If I have learned anything through my own journey, I think that if you have enough passion for what you want to build and if you have enough grit to really see your idea through, then you can truly accomplish anything.

John: Well you have accomplished a lot for our listeners out there that want to access Lisa’s great products at Kuli Kuli. Please go to www.kulikulioods.com. You could buy her suite of products online there or on at Whole Foods or Amazon. Lisa, you are literally the reason I rename the podcast Impact podcast. The impact that you are having on the planet, on people, on women and their families, and on the health of America, is beyond inspirational. I am so thankful for all that you do and thanks again for joining us today. I look forward to you coming back again to share the continued journey of Kuli Kuli.

Lisa: Thank you so much for having us, John. And thanks for being one of our earliest believers.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage as a digital booking engine revolutionizing the talent booking industry, with hundreds of athletes, entrepreneurs, speakers, and business leaders. Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent for your next event. For more information, please visit letsengage.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. I am so excited and honored today to have with us, Ryan Harris, he is a Super Bowl champion, broadcaster, speaker, and best selling author. Welcome to Impact Ryan.

Ryan Harris: John, thanks for having me, my friend.

John: Hey, listen, I got a wonderful opportunity to meet you and being your company before and you are just a fascinating, amazing young man and it is just an honor to have you on today. I just want first start the show by before, we get into your whole journey, I am sitting at my desk here in my office and about two feet behind me is a signed Notre Dame helmet from Rudy Ruettiger.

Ryan: Oh I love it. [laughter]

Ryan: Yes, I just want you to know straight up, go to my first college football team that I fell in love with was a Notre Dame and I know you are a Notre Dame alum and proud Notre Dame alum and you are still very connected to that great institution. Now, I fell in love with Notre Dame because they had one of the iconic Armenian coaches at that time. He was really one of the few celebrities in the Armenian world. Coach Ara Parseghian. That is why I fell in love with it. But then once I saw the Rudy story, and then I got to meet Rudy, there was no going back. Talk a little bit about your journey growing up, how you got to Notre Dame, and your experience at Notre Dame, and then we will go on to all the other accomplishments you did post-Notre Dame.

Ryan: Yeah, man. A quick story on Rudy when I was at Notre Dame, Charlie Weis typically, in NFL training camps the first night you watch a movie or an inspirational speech or something like that. Coach Weis put on Rudy and afterward, he goes, “You know, you do not really get the whole story from the movie. Rudy, why do not you come on down and tell these guys what it is really like.” Rudy came down bounding down the step. I mean all of us had seen the movie. You do not go to Notre Dame and not see the greatest [inaudible] movie ever made. That was one of the many times I have met Rudy, but to answer your question from St. Paul, Minnesota, God’s country and grew up and my mother is in education, my father is a mechanical engineer. I did not start playing football till I was 14, and really saw an opportunity not to do something and be rich, but to be great at something. I had a talent that I wanted to maximize and. I did that and I did it from a young age I played at the same peewee league as Joe Mauer, who I later went to high school with and Terrell Suggs had some big names in the NFL, Michael Floyd as well. Then I got recruited in my junior year. I was in JROTC, John because I thought that was how I was going to pay for college. I could go to college, get paid for it, I got a job for five years, I am in. Then my junior year I got a letter from Iowa saying we would like to offer you a full grant and aid to attend the University of Iowa and I said to my parents, “What is a grant aid?” “Well, that is a scholarship.” Iowa was my first scholarship by Kirk Ferentz who I later would end up winning the Super Bowl fifty with his son James Ferentz so just a cool little full circle moment I got to enjoy there. But then, yes, went to Notre Dame, prepared my tail off the summer before, was also on the show MTV True Life which I did not think anybody would see it. Then I got the campus and the guys were like, “Hey, where is that MTV brat?” I had a couple of weeks to pay off.

John: [laughter] [crosstalk] More people were watching than you thought, huh?

Ray: [crosstalk] Yes, that taught me at an early age, that sometimes people recognize you before you recognize them. Be very, very careful. I had a successful career in Notre Dame, I was the third offensive lineman to start and as a freshman in the history of Notre Dame and got drafted by the Broncos 2007. Played there until 2011, where I got released just probably the worst moment in my professional career, a moment I am so grateful for. Then I went on to play for the Houston Texas for two years, the Kansas City Chiefs. Then after that year, my eighth year in the NFL can see chief said, “Ryan, we do not think you have any football left.” I have had four surgeries by now, three on my back. I said, “You know what, you are wrong.” Got picked up again by the Denver Broncos because coach Kubiak was with me in Houston said, “Hey, I need you. I need you to come to help us win a championship.” We came back once to bowl 50 Payton’s last game. Then I went to play for the Pittsburgh Steelers and I will tell you, John, to finish my career with the Pittsburgh Steelers, what a franchise what a lesson in leadership, what a lesson in the team and I went from a huddle. I played with, Tim Tebow, Peyton Manning, Jay Cutler, but I went from Peyton Manning to Ben Roethlisberger. I ended my career back to back Hall of Famers and just had a blast learning about life, traveling, playing and I played in London, you are the kid from St. Paul playing in London with the Broncos and, got knocked down a lot but got up one more time and I am so grateful I did and learn so many lessons from it.

John: You have a Super Bowl ring which very very few people ever get to wear.

Ryan: The best diamonds are the ones you get for free, my friend.

John: [laughter] Oh my gosh. What happened after you retired, a lot of young athletes have problems with retirement. It is a weird world coming out of being a professional athlete and one that has had so much winning in their career and a Super Bowl champion, how did you find that transition? Where do others go wrong? Where did you go right? What lessons learned can you share with our listeners who have to go from whether it is being the high school star to just a regular person in college or the college star and never making the pros? Or from the pros and moving on in life to a regular career? How did you make that transition? What tips can you give to our listeners out there that have to make that transition?

Ryan: Yeah, man. It is a phenomenal question. After my third back surgery, I was out of the NFL for about three months and got picked back up by the Broncos and then got released by them. That time was really formative for me and after making one point two million dollars, my first two years in the NFL, I was thirty thousand dollars in debt to start each season. 78% of NFL players are bankrupt or divorced and chemically dependent or all three just two years after they were done playing. I immediately knew I got a double major at Notre Dame, political science, and economics, and policy but I knew I had to prepare. One of the things I started doing was just paying attention to what wealthy people were doing. I am such a proponent for college. I learned a lot about wealth at the University of Notre Dame, right? The wealth that I had never seen. Wealth does not look as rich as you and I know John, right? Wealth looks well-rested. [crosstalk] My dad was like, “Why do not you five hundred bucks in a Scottrade account and start investing.” I read some stuff by this guy named Warren Buffet. He said own what you buy. I literally bought McDonald’s stock, Chipotle stock, Google, and Apple and this is in 2008. Just started financially preparing. How many cars can you drive at the same time? One, so that is how many I bought. How many houses can you live at the same time? One, and until Bill Gates is wearing some diamond-studded chains, I am not doing that. The less you see the more I have. John, unfortunately, I got a lot of calls, two from guys who want me to buy back a used Louis Vuitton backpack, buy back a Mercedes Benz.

Ryan: I tell this story all the time. I had a young rookie, I was in Pittsburgh, and I was so adamant about guys just financially preparing, just make sure you think about retirement. Study says 90% of people have not even thought about retirement. Of those who have, only 5% have the savings to actually do so. This young man I said, one of my big things, delay your purchases three months to three years. This young man, five hundred thousand dollars he was making that year and I said, “Do not go buy a new car, do not go buy a new car, do not go buy a new car.” He buys a brand new Porsche Panamera. Now, three months later, John, he is released from the Steelers, never plays in the NFL again, no house, no 401k, no assets, with a Porsche with no winter tires heading back to Philadelphia. That is a tough story that repeats itself over and over. I just told myself I had to financially prepare. But my biggest tip to those who are going to transition to retirement, the piece that I did not want to admit that matters is ego. One of my mentors has told me, he said, “Ryan, you are still going to want to have your ego tickle.” I said, “No, man, I want to be obscure. I do not want to be noticed at all.” He says, “Ryan, a fish does not know you are on the water.” Sure enough, especially as a football player, I did not know how to work a copy machine.

Ryan: If I went to your office to work for you, John, as much as I was successful in football, if I am in your office, you do not care about that. You care about me making copies and making sure I email the file and put a Google Docs link that is available to everyone. I did not know how to do those things. Turns out you do not have to do that when you are playing with Peyton Manning and your fingers are on the dirt. I had to realize that I still wanted to be recognized for what I had have accomplished, overcoming failures, fighting through surgeries, keeping my body in peak physical condition, conditioning my mind to have a mindset that overcomes failure and that say, “Hey, you are wrong if you do not think I can do this.” I do. That is why I want it and listen, winning the Super Bowl really helps. I got to say nothin when I wear that ring into a room. But I did make sure my doctorate in applied football mechanics and theory would be recognized by people I was around every day because I do have a lot of talent. I may not be able to put it on an Excel spreadsheet, but I can teach you tips on how to build strong teams, I can give you tips on how to achieve your goals and speak to yourself positively. That can lead to those Excel spreadsheets that change the world.

John: Hey, for our listeners out there who are just joining us, we have got Ryan Harris, he is a Super Bowl champion. He is a broadcaster, speaker, and best selling author. You could find Ryan at www.Ryan Harris68.com. I am holding in my hand right here, this wonderful book: Mindset for Mastery; an NFL champions guide to reaching your greatness. Ryan, you wrote this best selling book, it is on Amazon and other great platforms for people to download or buy. Talk about why you wrote this book and give our listeners two or three of the best tips out of this book as a little preview that they can expect if they buy or download this book today.

Ryan: Yes. well, thank you, John. When you win the Super Bowl, everything you believe about yourself comes true for other people. I want people to have that moment in their life in business, right? In their relationships. The difference between winning and losing a championship in the NFL is your mindset. Choosing everything, no matter who you are, where you are from, we all share these experiences of failure, pain, loss, gain, circumstance. So what? We are in Coronavirus lockdown right now and you and I have talked, well, you have lived beyond all those moments. Since you are going to live beyond, would not you rather choose how that is going to be after that failure, disappointment, or circumstance? That is the power of your mindset. People say mindset all the time. But one of the things I pride myself on is actually giving people tangible tools. Well, mindset is I built my mindset through nine different surgeries in 10 years, failures, coaches telling me I was not going to be successful, by using the three phrases “I am, I can, I will.” I use it as a parent job, I use it in broadcasting. Anytime I faced self-doubt, I talked to myself in a positive way. “I am as the identity.” The night before the Super Bowl, I said to myself, “I am terrified. My greatest achievement is going to be my greatest failure if we lose this game.”

But what else am I? I am prepared. I am excited. I am ready, at some point you and I have experienced it. It is a choice you got right there. You and I have experienced it at some different point. At some point, your goal is not good enough. That is okay. What do you do then? Do not look behind you. Do not ask our favorite question like, “Whose fault is it? Could it possibly be ours” But what can you do? Okay, I gave up a sec, I can make sure I am going to use my technique. I can think about the next play. I am terrified the night before the Super Bowl. I am going to be successful. I am a champion. I can go out and prove it tomorrow. When you speak the words “I can”, you start to see opportunities in front of you instead of that past behind you. It is how you choose to add something. My ninth year in NFL I had to add breathing, John because Peyton Manning runs so many plays, I had to breathe again. I went to an MMA coach, I can not breathe. I am out of breath all the time. Okay, I can go to an MMA gym and learn how those fighters control their breath to perform at a high level. I did. Breathe in for five, hold your breath, swallow it, breathe out for eight. Boom, let us go, next play.

John: You put your ego aside, you put all your, you were champion at Notre Dame, well decorated, got drafted to the NFL, already had a longer career than most will ever have in the NFL and you put all that aside to now take your game to the next level, to be able to win the Super Bowl with Peyton Manning. You learn how to breathe again.

Ryan: Had to.

John: Unbelievable.

Ryan: How many times in your life did you have to learn a new skill? I always remind people, John, like, we are all in relationships. If I took my wife to the same restaurant we went for our first date, we would not be as happy as we are now. Right? But we do that in our professional lives, right? We know, I am good at this job. I am good at this program. I do not want to learn anything else. Why am I not getting the results? People ask me all the time. “Ryan, what can I do to be successful?” I said, “Well, what have you done new?” Often times they will say, the most common response is “What do you mean?” “What do you mean what do I mean? You are an accountant, are you in a networking group? Are you doing leadership trainings? Are you learning about yourself as a leader? Do you want to be a leader? Is this even what you want to do?” Finding out what you can do is how you can continue to stay in motion when other people are stuck. Then you got to commit to it. John, there are over two hundred diamonds on the Super Bowl 50 ring, and none of them are just laying on the ground to be picked up. You have got to dig for diamonds and when you speak the words “I will,’ you commit yourself to it. The part of the book is built, the first chapters “I am, I can, I will.” Build your mindset. [inaduible] as a parent, as a professional, as a performer, you choose your mindset, and that is how you create your success.

John: Wow, I love it. Who taught you that? Was that something self-taught or did you have a mentor? Was that your mom or dad? I mean, obviously your parents are super bright human beings, an educator and an engineer. I mean, where did that come from? Is that from coach, or is that something you just got in your own self teachings?

Ryan: I had to create it myself because when I first got to Notre Dame, I got hit so hard. One of my cleats was gone. I was sprawled out. this senior was making a point of me. That night and I read the book, and one of my favorite books is The Book of Five Rings. It is written by the most successful Samurai swordsman in Japanese history. He said, “You must commit with utter resolve to destroying your enemy.” That night I visualized, right? I am going to kick this guy’s tail on this next drill. If he had done anything different than he did the previous seven days, I would have fallen on my face, but I smacked him with a power I did not know I had. At that moment, I realized so much of my performance is up to me. I could have been embarrassed I could have thought I would never play again after being knocked out of my shoes. By the way, you do not make a great sound when that happens, right? But I said, “No, I am here. I belong. I can focus on this play and practice. I will.” When that happened, that was it. I cemented it. Then I started seeing other things, like my favorite quote by Muhammad Ali, and check this out. He said, “I am the greatest. I called myself that before I knew I was.” Even the greatest champion in the world has self-doubt. But fear is something we talked about less than sex. I just came to a realization and acceptance that fear and doubt were going to be a part of my journey, but I would choose success over falling to those feelings.

John: I love it. That is awesome. For our listeners out there. We have got Ryan Harris with us today. He is a Super Bowl champion. He is talking to us about leadership, about mindset, about financial literacy. He has a great book, Mindset for Mastery. You can find that on Amazon and on other great book portals. You could download it or buy it today. He is also on Instagram and you can find them at WWW. Ryan Harris68.com. Ryan, let us talk a little bit about financial literacy, who was your mentor? How did you go in what is basically the opposite direction, as you said of 78% of professional athletes who are ending up in bad spots when they retire? Who was your mentor? Was it the Warren Buffett, Berkshire Hathaway way, the Bill Gates way? What books did you read? How did you get financial literacy as part of your DNA? What do you recommend to our listeners now who need to get on the right side and stop being entitled in terms of their spending and start really saving for a better future?

Ryan: Yes. The big thing that was a difference-maker for me was just buying my first stocks. Just getting through and learning how to buy a stock, learning what the stock symbol is the stock price. The first time you buy a share yourself, you start seeing money differently, right? I can go to a hundred dollar concert or I can buy a dividend stock of Chevron or Exxon Mobil that will pay me for the rest of my life. Then I can go to a concert next time it is around. But the big key for me, John, is right after my rookie year, I had a sixty thousand dollar tax bill by the IRS. I said to my accountant, I said, “How do I make sure this never happens again?” He is like, “Well, you should probably buy a house so you can write off the mortgage.” I went to the bank, a 23-year-old millionaire who has got a contract with the Denver Broncos, and I go to my bank, and I asked the wrong question. “What kind of house can I afford?” Well, the bank is going to say, “You can do this with 5% down or 10 percent.” I was standing with the realtor in a house that I was going to buy, seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars, unmarried, no kids, one car, four-car garage, with an office. I had my conciliary, I call him, he is my lawyer. He came to visit me randomly and I was telling him about the house I wanted to buy. He says, “You sure do look happy in this two-bedroom apartment.” I kid you not. I said to him, “Do you think there is a cheaper house I could buy?” Instead of ridicule me he goes, “I think there is, maybe something in the three hundred thousand range.” That was my first awareness, banks do not have my best interests in mind. I can buy less and then I started realizing.

John: Be happy and still be happy.

Ryan: Be completely happy, functional. Function versus flash. Then I started asking the people who are wealthy that I knew, “What do you do with money?” “Oh, I invest. Hey, I could buy a bigger house but what do I need a bigger house for?” I had room, people were always bugging to buy this house like, “Yes, my friend can stay.” I am not buying a house. No one buys a house for roommates. Do you know what I am saying? I had to unlearn what I had learned. Part of what I had learned in my family was that you never paid off the debt. I did not know you could pay off debt until I was in my second year of the NFL. My whole process between starting to purchase shares of stocks that I use every day, minimizing my expenditures. Being frugal. I mean, they are big times, guys who spent ten thousand dollars a night at a club in the NFL. But I say I did not go to the club at all my rookie year and I went to tour Europe afterward for six thousand dollars. Those kinds of experiences really show me that I can have security if I want. Then how it made me more money, John, was when I went to the Steelers afterward.

After winning the Super Bowl, they gave me a deal that was below market value. I said something to them that they later said they had never heard. They gave me an offer. It was below market value. I told him I said, “I will go home.” They looked at me like I was absolutely insane. Who would not take any kind of money to play for the Steelers? But I was financially stable. I was confident in my value. They immediately said, “Well, give us about five minutes.” They took five minutes, it came back, they offered me exactly the deal I wanted and it only happened because I had been financially secure. These things matter to my children, right? One UCLA, I know your son graduated UCLA law, they just had a receiver who is at the Jets now. His father played in the league for five years, did not watch his money, did not invest his money, ended up getting shot multiple times in a drug deal gone bad while he was a kid. These are preventable situations and I wanted to be rich when I am fifty. I want to take vacations, I want to retire. That is why financial literacy is so important to everyone.

John: I am so glad you laid it out that way. You got to play for one of the greatest coaches in NFL, coach Mike Tomlin and also one of the greatest owning families, legacy families in the NFL, the Rooney family, what an experience, what an experience.

Ryan: The Rooneys, man, talk about financial literacy. The original Mr. Rooney, his cigar box is encased in Latrobe Pennsylvania where we do a training camp. I said after a couple of practices I am going to go see what kind of cigars he had and I am going to buy a box. I go up there. John, it is a cherry wood box with Swisher Sweets in there. The owner of the greatest franchise in the NFL smoke Swisher Sweets like, what am I doing buying a twenty dollar cigar?

John: [laughter] Who needs Cuban? You got to listen to it. As you said you got to pay attention to what really wealthy people are doing. I mean, it is interesting. We have talked about mindset and your great book Mindset for Mastery. We have talked about financial literacy. Let us talk about leadership. I want to frame it this way. I just finished watching and I assume you watched as well. The Michael Jordan biography. Last Dance, 10 episodes and the most moving part for me, the most both touching and emotional but moving and impactful part for me was the end of episode 8, I believe, last couple minutes where he was sitting in this chair when they were interviewing him. He said, “Winning has a price..” He said, “Leadership has a price.” He got emotional and he actually asked for the camera to cut at that point. He basically said, “If people did not want to be part of the system that I was helping to create with Coach Jackson and the ownership of the Bulls, and the leadership of the Bulls, then if you do not find me inspiring then find someone else to follow.” But he goes, “This was my rules and this is how I was doing it.” He took it so personal and he made it so personal. Talk about what that means to you. Winning has a price and leadership has a price. What does that mean in the Ryan Harris ecosystem and the world and all the winning that you have done and the leadership that you now exude and the leadership that you teach?

Ryan: Well, I mean, I am so glad you brought that point up, John, because, and he says that leadership has a prize, winning has a price. He says if you do not want to pay it if you got a problem with that you have never won anything.

John: That is right. He exactly said that. Great quote. You were watching the same thing I was. That is right. That is exactly what he said.

Ryan: That is a mindset, right? Why would I listen to someone who does not win? One of my chapters in my book, you have noted the song by Queen I love it. “No time for losers, because we are the champions.” I have got no time. If you do not want to work. I have no time. If you want to layout I had roommates would lay on my couch. I came back from practices like what are we doing for dinner? What are we doing? What are you doing? But this concept that everybody wants to win, it is just not true. There are sixteen hundred players in the NFL every year, only 53 become champions and it is not because not everyone is talented. People are what Mike Tomlin says comfort seekers, right? You want a job. Okay, you can do it for fifteen years. You can slide on by. I even had a neighbor come to talk to me and said “Ryan. I watched the documentary, I thought, what if I flip the switch tomorrow?” “What do you mean? He goes, “What if tomorrow I just made it about greatness.” I am thinking, “What the hell you have been doing your whole life?”

But the people around you, many do not want to be successful. Many will never risk failure to succeed. You have got to realize that if you want to do something great, you are entitled to do so. Everyone is not going to be along for the ride. I have lost friends. I have had issues with family members where we did not speak for a while. Do you know what? That is okay. Because I was on a mission to win a championship. I even change, people usually come in on Fridays for families in the NFL, but I told them to come in on Saturday right before I went to the hotel because listen, my job is not to take you out on a Friday night. I do not show up at your house on a Wednesday and say, “Hey, what are we doing for dinner?” That is not how this is going down. You want to hang out, you are staying until Monday. That was so poignant. The fact that so many people do not want to win. In ten years in the NFL, I was only on three teams that cared about winning. The rest were happy with the paycheck, free sweat pants, the status, and that was good enough for them. But when you dedicate yourself to greatness, which you are entitled to, you are going to be lonely. There are going to be periods of time where people around you do not want to work. I was in dark gyms not just literally, but also figuratively of doubt. I worked my way through it, believing I would be a champion and I was. I am so happy I did not listen to the Kansas City Chiefs when they told me I was done playing football. I had no football left because I did have football left. I had a championship football left. It just was not with them.

John. Not only you did not listen to them. Just like Jordan made things personal and he put chips on the shoulder with people, whether they were perceived or real, you put a bigger chip on your shoulder when they said you have no football left, and you went out and probably work triple as hard. That is how you became a Super Bowl champion after that.

John: Well, you do not have to listen to everybody. Everybody is not an expert on your life. For me, when I heard that by Jordan, I just talked about on my radio show, I said, “I hope everybody heard that.” Because, yes, Jordan may not be the favorite person at the time, but all his teammates said what? “We love him.” Looking back on it, he was making us great. I had been through that wormhole. I did not want to be great. I had a coach who challenged me and I hated it, not only because he was right, which pissed me off even more, but that I had a level that I had failed to see in myself that I could perform at. You have got to continue to believe in your dream but beyond belief, you better work for it. You better demand that if people are going to be around you that they are going to do it too.

John: You bring up a great point on the price. Winning has a price and leadership has a price. You brought up a word that Jordan did not bring up but it was so apparent in the documentary. You just brought it up lonely, both figuratively and literally. Just share some thoughts on how do people overcome because there is no greatness that I have ever seen in anybody whether it is athletes, entertainers, business people, politicians, that loneliness is not part of that price. How did you overcome that loneliness?

Ryan: Yes, I just did not care. Do you know what I am saying? I rather wear a Super Bowl ring and be lonely for a while because guess what, I got too many friends now. Not every friend is a good friend. I have had bad friends who I stick around but you know what is funny John, we are going through, NASA is about to launch a historic space mission, you never see family members in space with astronauts. You do not see their friends in the cockpit of a spaceship. I remember talking with Mike Tomlin, we had these amazing side conversations and practices. I said, “Coach, what is one thing about being a leader?” He said, “I tell people all the time, you want to be successful get used to being lonely.” He is right. Because no one is coming to a 6 AM workout with me. The people asking for tickets are not showing up at a 6 AM workout with me. That is going to be lonely, but are you lonely because you are an asshole, are you lonely because you are tough to be around or are you lonely because you are going towards a goal while other people are going out to party? I mean, I had a 7 AM workout the day after I graduated high school. I am not sure everybody did that but I can tell you that made a difference in me being prepared to go to Notre Dame and be successful. For me, I saw success as paramount and I was willing to do whatever it took to be successful, to maximize my greatness, go beyond my potential. Some people were not coming with me, because none of them are going to step on that field with me. I needed to make sure that my success was the priority. Listen, maybe I have been wrong. Could I have been a better friend at some time? Sure. Could I have been a beterr student at some time? Sure. But I will tell you what, I was great at football, and I will never apologize for that.

John: There is no apologies needed. One last question and then we were going to let you go for today. But we were going to have you back obviously. You mentioned the issue of Tomlin saying to you people are comfort seekers, and that strikes a chord because Jesse Itzler, David Goggins, they always are preaching. “You have got to learn to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.” How did you learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable because there is no greatness that ever comes in a comfort zone, in anything in this world? Again, I love that you brought that up, I just want to ask, what tips do you have for our listeners out there, how to learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable?

Ryan: Do something new, simple. If you have not done yoga, go do a yoga class. If you have not done Tai Chi, do a Tai Chi Class. It is harder for me, John, and I am sure for you sometimes when you speak with people, and they want success but they do not really want it right. We talk about financial literacy, oftentimes I talk with corporations or people I say, “Raise your hand if you want to be a millionaire.” Every hand goes up. “Raise your hand if you have any investments and stock” About a quarter of the hands, if I am lucky, go up. People are lying to themselves. Not everybody has this. But I also realize most people have not been told they can be great. It is your right to be extraordinary. You can be great whether that is a surgeon, a doctor, an accountant, whatever that is, you can be great. Do something new. Try new things, try new foods. That is what I started with. Anthony Bourdain had his show that everyone wants. I went and tried Pho. I have never had Pho, the Vietnamese soup.

John: Yes, I love Pho. [crosstalk]

Ryan: I want people to think about what I call the math class mindset. No one ever goes into math class saying, I am going to take calculus one and I am going to know every single answer. I am going to learn somehow by doing that. But we do this in life. I do not want to talk about race because it is uncomfortable and I might say something wrong. I do not want to talk about money, because I might show that I am not very good at it. But listen, you do not enter into math class thinking you have got all the answers and you are going to learn, you learn by making mistakes. You are not going to be drawing the ire of people who say, “Hey, I want to talk about race and I have a question on this.” ” I want to talk about sexuality. I have a question about this.” If you are asking a question, you are showing an intent to learn, a willingness to be wrong. You and I both know, we want to surround ourselves with people who are reaching for new heights, because you are going to slip on the rung of a ladder when you are 10,000 feet up. Does not mean you are falling off that thing, but be willing to make that mistake and that type of effort goes recognized by every successful person in any business. Do something new. If you are an introvert, go to a networking event. If you are a bad writer, take a YouTube class on writing. Do something new to prepare yourself for your success.

John: I love it. Ryan, thank you for your time. today. We are going to have you back again for our listeners out there who want to learn more about Super Bowl champion, broadcaster, speaker, and best selling author of Mindset for Mastery, Ryan Harris. Go to www.RyanHarris68.com. You can also find them on Instagram and other social media platforms. Ryan Harris, you are making a great impact and making the world a better place. You have taught us all today how to be great. Thank you for joining us on the Impact podcast.

Ryan: John, It is an honest pleasure, my friend, and I can not wait to take you to dinner and just hang out for a couple of hours. Can not wait.

John: Can not wait myself. Thank you again.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy, and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider, and cybersecurity focused hardware destruction company in the United States, and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. And I am so honored, and privileged to have my friend on today. He is the Executive Director of E2, welcome back to the Impact podcast, Bob Keefe!

Bob Keefe: John, thank you very much. So great to be with you again.

John: Oh, it is so great to hear your voice, and for you to be with me as well. You do such an important work, and you make such an important impact on the United States, and around the world with not only your great work, but the work of your organization. This is why I do this podcast for people like you, for organizations like yours. And it is just my honor and privilege to have you on today. And Bob, for our new listeners that have not heard you before, or know your background. Can you share a little bit about your own biography, and background before we get talking about your great organization, E2?

Bob: [inaudible] Well, my background is relatively boring. I spent probably about 20 to 25 years as a journalist, John, covering businesses, covering environmental news, covering political news, and my last stint was covering Washington in the White House, and Congress for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution newspaper. But in between all of that, I was a National Technology Editor for the Austin American-Statesman newspaper in Texas. I was a national reporter for Cox newspapers, covering everything from the glaciers in Alaska to maquiladoras in Mexico, and a whole lot of things in between. Probably about in 2011, a good friend of mine who was covering the White House for the LA Times, called me up to let me know that he was leaving the newspaper business to go to an organization called NRDC, the Natural Resources Defense Council, as the NRDC’s Federal Communications Director, and he knew me, and he knew my background in business, journalism. and things like that. And he said, “Hey, why don’t you come help me out over here? We have got this great organization called E2, Environmental Entrepreneurs. And you know how to talk to business people, you understand business, and you care about the environment. I know that.” At the time, John, I had three little girls, and I knew I needed to leave them a better place in this world, so I decided to dedicate my career to making the planet a better place for them. And when I get up, and people ask me why I do the job I do, I say, “There are three reasons: Delaney, Grace and Carly. My three daughters.” And that is what I do every day.

John: That is a great answer. And I am so grateful for the great work that you do because you truly do make an impact, and so does E2, and the work that you do is so important. And I will tell you what, as the world becomes stranger and stranger sometimes, making sure that these great stories get out on the story of your work and E2’s initiatives is more important than ever. Can you share for our listeners who are not familiar with E2, and for our listeners who want to learn more in their own time, you could go to www.e2.org. Can you share a little bit about the background of E2, and the important role that it plays in our world today?

Bob: Absolutely. So E2, John, got started 20 years ago this year, this is our 20th anniversary. We got our start in Northern California. Back when the state of California at that time was considering the legislature, was considering what then was the very first ever tailpipe emissions legislation for vehicles. The first clean cars legislation in the world, not just the United States but the world. And at the time, we had a number of… in California we had the automakers, the petroleum industry, others coming to Sacramento and saying, “Hey, listen lawmakers, if you pass this law, it is going to kill our business. It is going to put American auto industry out of business. It is going to ruin the petroleum industry, and the world is going to go to hell in a handbasket. California is going to float out in the ocean, and it is going to be the end of humanity as we know it.” Kind of a typical argument we get sometimes.

John: Right.

Bob: Well, there was a group of Silicon Valley folks who stood up and said, “Now wait a minute, actually, we know something about innovation, at least. We do not know the car industry necessarily. We know about innovation, and we know about market signals. And we know about markets. And we also know that what the right market signals from government intervention, maybe we can drive innovation in the clean car’s business or in the vehicles business back then. Maybe we can drive innovation in cleaner fuels.” And who knows, and again, this was 20 years ago, John, our founder said, “Who knows maybe those previous thingies that we have been seeing starting to pop up in these hybrid vehicles can be something that is more commonplace with the right laws and regulations in place. And hey, maybe even an electric vehicle someday. We know that is crazy, but electric vehicles might be a thing.” And so these… our founder started going to Sacramento, and bringing a different kind of message to lawmakers. And the message that said, “With the right policy, innovation, and the right policy decisions, we can drive innovation, we can create new markets, we can create jobs. And by the way, we can clean up the dirty air in California and the water, and everything else.” So we won on that policy. And it resulted in California clean car standards which increased mileage standards for vehicles all across the country eventually. And guess what, we have got a lot more hybrids and a lot more electric vehicles on the road these days. Slash, last 20 years from then, John, to today, E2 has expanded to nine chapters across the country. Stretching from New York and New England to Seattle and San Diego where I happen to be, as you know. And we have got about 9000 members and supporters now. And these are business people, our members, our business people not businesses. They come from the gamut of every type of industry you can imagine from clean energy, and real estate to the recycling business to investing. And the one thing they do have in common is that they realize that the economy and the environment are not at odds. They do not have to be at odds. And in fact, they rely on one another. We cannot have a good, strong economy without a good environment.

John: That is true.

Bob: We cannot have a good environment without a strong economy.

John: You know, Bob, there is so many important initiatives that your organization works on on a regular basis. Can you share with our listeners some of the key initiatives that you are focused on right now?

Bob: You bet. You bet. So honestly, our goal has not changed, John, from 20 years ago when we got our start. Our goal, our mission is to advance a clean economy, and to advance policies that are good for our economy, and good for our environment. So right now, one of the most important things we think we can do is to do that, to reach for that mission through expanding clean energy, expanding clean transportation, which, as we know, are the biggest sources of carbon pollution right now in our country, and also huge parts of our economy. So on the federal level, that means right now particularly, focusing on making sure that any economic stimulus that comes out of Congress, and out of Washington, as we face these dire times in our economy right now, make sure that those include policies that will allow our countries to build back, that to build back faster, to build back cleaner, to build back a more resilient economy. We can do that. We can do that through advancing policies that are going to get more clean energy on the ground. We can do that by advancing policies that improve energy efficiency in our buildings, our schools, our offices, our homes. We can do that by advancing policies that help get more of those clean vehicles on the roads. So as horrible as things are right now, and as bad as shape is our economy is in, let us face it, we have never had an opportunity, if you want to call it that is not [inaudible], but we have never had the chance where we have had to stop our economy and restart it again. Why would not we do it in a way that makes it better? We have that opportunity to do that right now. And that is what we work on every single day, trying to tell the story of the importance, and the opportunities of building back our economy better and faster to clean energy, clean transportation.

John: You know, as you have mentioned, and usually you and I are super positive guys. But to just reiterate, we are having this conversation during the COVID-19 tragic period that we are all trying to make our way through and get to the other side on. What are the impacts that COVID-19 has had on E2, and what does that mean for you, the rest of the year as an organization, as you run as you are the executive director of this organization? And what does that mean for you in 2021 and beyond?

Bob: Well, thank you for that. First of all, E2 has been impacted operationally just like every other organization in the country, if not the world, right? And we have had to adapt to that. We typically, I have mentioned we have nine chapters around the country, we typically do chapter events in those chapters, in-person events [inaudible] once for all those chapters. We certainly spend a lot of time in Washington walking the halls of Congress with our business members, or in the state houses in the states that we work at. All of that has come to a stop, of course. But the good news is, like every crisis, there are opportunities. And I think we have learned a lot, and we are doing things different than in some cases, even better. I will give you an example.

John: Yeah.

Bob: We typically a couple, two or three times a year will take anywhere from 12 to 15 business people from around the country to Washington DC to work on clean economy issues, and to talk to lawmakers, and to tell their stories about how policies are needed or existing policies are impacting their companies at the intersection of economy and environment. And you know, there are 12 to 15 business people, and I cannot remember if you have done this with us or not, John, but we will run around Capitol Hill, and we will meet with 60 or 70 officers.

John: Yeah.

Bob: So I will make members of Congress.

John: I have been there for those. That was great.

Bob: Yeah, yeah. Well, as you should remember, they are pretty rushed, and we cover a lot of ground, and [inaudible]. So in the past couple of… in the past month over the course of a couple of weeks, we decided we really needed to get in there and talk to lawmakers about this next economic stimulus, and we have to do it virtually. So thanks to the great staff that I have, we were able to organize nearly 50 business people from around the country, and set up a series of virtual meetings with members of Congress from all across the country to talk about these issues. We ended up meeting with something around 100 members of Congress over the course of a couple of days.

John: Wow!

Bob: Virtually on Zoom meetings. I think [inaudible] to Congress that way. In terms of the networking and bringing our members together, that was a big part of what we did with our in-person meetings. We are doing those differently also. Just last night, we did a really cool thing. We had a film screening, John, screening of a great film called “The Human Element,” that talks about mankind’s role in shaping the climate that we have today. It was done by a guy named James Balog. He is really a well-known documentarian. He did something called “Chasing Ice” as well. But anyway, we had this virtual film screening with more than 100 or so E2 members all across the country. And this interactive dialogue via Zoom with James Balog, the director of this film, and a broader discussion about the policies and so forth that we can help push forward to stop things like the world’s biggest wildfires in California or flooding on the east coast and and all the other issue that we are grappling with with climate change.

John: That is just wonderful. Do you… how old are your daughters now? You mentioned your daughters at the top of the show. How old are those three young ladies now?

Bob: Well, they are a little older. I have got a 14, 16, and a 21 now.

John: Okay. So now they have grown up somewhat since you have made the decision to take over and be the Executive Director of E2, and make the world a better place. And we are living through strange times, COVID-19, and other things that are very troubling for all of us, and as a society here in the United States. But I want to ask you this, this weekend I was with my family. We have just welcomed our first grandchild so I am like you, you know.

Bob: Congratulations!

John: Yeah, thank you. And we are… this is why I do the podcast. This is why I support E2, and great people like you because it is just not enough platforms to get the good word out, to get these important messages out. But I was so hopeful this weekend. I wondered about your family and your children as well. Although, yes, we are living in times that are somewhat overwhelming and somewhat troubling right now. How about SpaceX, and NASA, and the great things that happened this weekend? How- did that… was that a moment for your family, and for you as the Executive Director, and leader, the power of this nation, the power of the invention, and innovation nation that we are so honored that all of us get to be part of, was that something your family enjoyed, and did you have a… were your girls as excited as my children were about it as well?

Bob: Well, I must profess they did not really get into the SpaceX launch. I did myself. And I remember we were talking about journalism. I remember covering SpaceX when it got started and going out to the [inaudible]. Watching those early rocket launches so it was pretty cool for me, personally. What they have noticed, John, we have talked about this at least in our house, [inaudible] a couple of things in this current time frame. The power of people to impact change, and to affect change. We are seeing that in the streets right now, and across the map. And they are understanding that they can, everybody can make a difference. And they should try to make a difference pushing for things that we know are right, and things that we know need to be changed in this country. So that has been really educational, I think, for them and for me. We have also learned from this COVID lockdown a couple of things. First of all, what a blessing it is, frankly, to be able to spend time with each other, unencumbered by crazy stuff like going to school every day, or [inaudible] or getting on an airplane and traveling for work or whatever.

John: Right.

Bob: And we have also realized, I think we are going to increasingly realize not just as a family but as a nation, and ultimately as a world, that this great pause has had an impact on our environment. Carbon emissions are down substantially right now. There is less traffic on the road as we know. And what is happening, we can see downtown LA on any day. We can see the Himalayas from our cities, and in the far east. We were seeing the canals of Venice become cleaner, and our oceans become cleaner almost overnight. And we are seeing things like wildlife pop up in places where they did not pop up before. So I think it has given us a much needed view, I guess, into all of the things we are talking about that are so important when it comes to climate, and clean energy, and environment are theoretical. It is real. [inaudible]

John: That is right.

Bob: And for me, at least, and for my family, it reinvigorates the need to do more.

John: Well, that is well said. But so you are really saying that again, just to reiterate, the pause has been really the proof of concept that we can make an impact, our behavior can make an impact, and the behavior that you are trying to… Yeah, and so let us go over that though. Short term, we had this pause. We are coming out of it now. But there is now, when you listen to people, James Fish was on the other day at CNBC, the CEO of Waste Management, and he said, “Hey, we really believe 30% of America is now going to work for them from their homes.” If that trend holds, and if those numbers are correct, you are saying that long term, we are going to have a cleaner America, a cleaner society here. Less emissions, cleaner air, and all the impacts that those trends bring with it.

Bob: Well, I am hopeful if that will be the case.

John: Right.

Bob: Just to be clear, this is not having a global pandemic is not the way to solve climate change.

John: I am with you. You are right.

Bob: But this pause again, has given us a window into what we can do. Now we need to have the societal fortitude, political will, to keep the positives of what we have seen moving in the right direction without the negatives of a global pandemic to do it. Let us look at travel for instance on what we are talking about. We do not need to ground all of our airplanes. We do not need to quit traveling. We should not, we do not, we cannot quit traveling given the way the world works right now. But you know what? We can fly planes that fly on cleaner fuels. We have the technology to fly as the military is shown fly any airplane, a combination of biofuel that is cleaner than traditional jet fuel. We can do that. We need to make that happen. Let us look at our schools. Right now, we have got 135,000 or so schools that are sitting vacant, John. They have been sitting vacant for a couple of months now. They have been sitting back for several other months. We have also got 600,000 people out of work in clean energy right now who lost their jobs because of this downtrend. Why cannot we get some of those people into those schools in energy efficiency? Make those schools clean or better. Use electricity by the way, saving money for cash strapped states and local school districts. And when those students want to get back to school, they will be in a cleaner, better building because of it. We have got something like 900,000 miles, I believe, of power grid in our country. Two years ago in California, we had the worst wildfire ever in the history of our country because a 100 year-old clip failed on a PG&E tower, sparking the campfire that caused trillions of dollars in economic damage. Why cannot we get electricity and utility workers up on those power lines right now, which by the way, is a lot more than six feet is pretty easy to do social distancing? And let us upgrade our electricity bit grid to make it safer, to make it more efficient, to make our country stronger, more resilient. So when I talk about it, we need to build back our economy better, and we need to build it back faster. We can do this. We just need leadership in Washington and our states to make that happen. And that is our role in E2, to bring business voices to bear, to try, and change some of those policies, to move our country forward in a smarter way.

John: And your daughters are still young, and my children are somewhat older but they are also part of the generation behind us. I have a 34 year-old and a 28 year-old, and we are very interested in making the world a better place as well. What is your advice to those young people that are listening that want to be part of the new clean, green economy? They do not want to just make a paycheck, they want to make a difference. They want to make an impact every day when they wake up. And two, they feel a little hopeless right now where we are politically in the United States in terms of leadership. What is your advice to them?

Bob: We are at a really, we are seeing some really interesting things, in my opinion, these days. And that is your… you can speak to this as well. But I have talked to a lot of technology companies, and big employers, the ones you would think about when you think about big tech companies and others. And what I have been hearing from some of them, and what we have been saying at some of them publicly and otherwise, is that young people today as we know, just do not want to go and get a paycheck, and punch a clock for eight hours a day and go about their business. This is not the 50’s anymore, if you will, or the 40’s or other times in our past. People want to go to work at places that are going to make a difference in the world that are going to… they come with value. And the cool thing is that a lot of the major societal shifts that we have seen in our country in recent years have been driven apart by employees or companies, demanding change to those companies. Look at gay marriage, for instance. A lot of that started that big employee, big companies, where gay couples were looking for health benefits. We are starting to see some of that now. Increasingly, seeing more of that, and employees demanding young people straight into the workforce, demanding that the companies that they work for do more on the environment, for the environment, and for climate because they are in a position to do so. And companies gratefully are listening in a lot of cases. So what I would say to my daughters, to your kids, and other other people that are coming into the workplace right now, get involved. Look for ways to bring your voice to the change that you want to make in this world. Because otherwise, you are going to be stuck with somebody else’s vision of the world. And that might not be the one that is best for the world.

John: Wow, that is important information. And I hope our young generation behind us are taking heed of this and getting involved, and getting registered, and going out, and exercising your right to vote. I mean, we really need that now more than ever. Talk a little bit about your goals for the second half of this year, for 2021, as the Executive Director. What are you really excited about right now? Given that we had this pause, and it was unintended, and as you said, though, I mean, when they have even taken the satellite pictures, photos of the world, the smog over China, and other parts of the world beyond the United States has dissipated greatly. So the change is real, the pushback on the ability for us to make a difference to make the world a cleaner, better place is real. As you said, it has been proven in this pause, petri dish pause, beta test area. What are you now going to really… what is the second half of the year look like for you, for your focus?

Bob: I think our focus in E2 is going to continue to be building back our economy better, and building it faster. With this, we only got 20% almost unemployment in this country right now. As I mentioned, there about the clean energy space at least there are the first in March and April alone 600,000 clean energy workers, energy efficiency people’s solar wind. By the way, we are talking about electricians. We are talking about HVAC technicians. We are talking about the people who put insulation in your attic, and better windows on the outside of your buildings. 600,000 people lost their jobs. Well, we are headed to what looks like about 850,000 clean energy job losses by the end of this month. And these jobs are not going to come back overnight, none of these jobs are going to come back overnight. And we are going to be talking about jobs in the economy, not just at E2, but as a society and as a country. For yes, all of the rest of this year and probably the year after that, this is going to be a multi-year economic recovery. And again, our focus is going to be making sure that we can recover. Learn the lessons that we learned in this pause. Learn and take the time that we have had to do things better, to build back better, and to have a stronger, cleaner, more resilient economy, for those kids of ours and others.

John: You know, Bob, as you said at the top of the show you were a 20-year career journalist before you took over as Executive Director of E2. And, as I have said to you both on the air and off the air, the reason I do this podcast and I have been doing it since ‘07, is because there is just not enough outlets covering the good news, the important news. It is more of the tragic, and the sensational news that sells soap rather than other important news like what you are doing, and E2 is doing. What do you see in the future now that news has become more democratized as ever, and a reporter is a young person with a cell phone, really? How does the media, and public education play in terms of environmental health, and the growth of this movement in the United States, but even more broadly around the world with the Greta Thunberg’s? I mean, we have our legacy Jane Fonda here, who is still fighting the great fight. But now you have the advent of young, brave young people like Greta Thunberg. How do you see now the interrelationship of journalism, media, and the growth of the great mission that E2 has?

Bob: Yeah, yeah. Well, I appreciate that, John. When people talk about the media, it means a lot of different things. To me it is the communications tool. It is like the phone I am talking to you right now on, it is like, that we turn on at night. It is like the newspaper we pick up in the morning. It is a communications tool. The good news, I think, is that the tools of communication have become more accessible to, obviously, everybody. So people like Greta Thunberg can get a message out more broadly on their own. Or let us say the president of the United States can get a message out more broadly on his own. That is not necessarily about, I think it is a good thing. When it comes to journalism and the practice of selling and explaining the news, and what is happening in our world, as a professional way, and when I say professional I mean objective and well-thought out, and well-researched, and well-reasoned. That is a little bit different. Journalism, unfortunately, right now is under siege in this country like never before. I do not understand why people are not more upset about what is happening to the first amendment in this country, as they are the second amendment, and every other amendment in our constitution, because it is the fundamental. It is a fundamental part of the foundation of what our democracy is built on. But when I went to journalism school, and when I worked as a journalist, we were always told or taught that journalism and news should be a reflection of the society that surrounds us, and what is happening in our world, its history on a daily basis, right?

John: Right.

Bob: And it kind of gets to your point. I do not know that journalists for a long time did a good enough job, telling the story of climate change, and telling the story of the environmental impacts that were causing to the world that we live in. I think they can still do a much better job of telling the economic benefits and the cost of climate change. They are not just, John, when the hurricane caused billions of dollars of damage in the Carolinas or a wildfire wipes out the community in Northern California, those are the obvious things. Journalism and journalists, I think, need to do a better job. And I think they are beginning to do a better job of telling the broader story, the scope and the suite, if you will, of the costs of increasing asthma rates, for instance, among kids from admissions. The cost of something that I know is dear to your heart because of chemicals leaching out from electronics into water, the water that we drink. Telling a better story and putting it in an economic frame of the cost of climate inaction. And very importantly, the economic benefits of action on climate. The savings from some of the things that we have been talking about the policy that we work on and others that have really done a lot to improve the economy more, to improve the economy, and definitely to, than they have to hurt the economy, despite what you hear from some people.

John: Well, Bob, any final thoughts before we have to say goodbye for this episode?

Bob: Well, the one thing I was gonna mention, John, is again, we focus a lot on the economic benefits of policies, and the economic cost of [inaudible]. And I think it is important for people to realize what that looks like.

John: Please. Yeah.

Bob: I will give you a couple of examples.

John: Absolutely.

Bob: The Clean Air Act was signed into law by President Nixon in 1970. The fundamental law to keep our air clean. Since then, these are shown that the returns on what we have gotten from the Clean Air Act economically have exceeded the cost 30 to 1. But that is another one. For every dollar we invested in cleaning up dirty power plants, for instance, for putting catalytic converters on cars, for instance, for every dollar we have invested in cleaning up our air, this led to $30 in benefits in jobs, in investments, in reduced healthcare costs. About twice as many heck of a lot easier for all of us to breathe. We can walk around downtown LA now without a mask on. Well, actually we are [inaudible] now. But it is not because of [inaudible].

John: Right.

Bob: So many years. If you look at renewable energy standards, we now have renewable energy standards in 29 states in this country that require utilities to get some portion, some bigger than others, some portion of their power from renewable sources like solar, wind, et cetera. What does that done? That has created thousands of jobs in those industries, in those states. It has helped clear our air. We do not have to get that money from coal-fire, excuse me, we do not have to get that energy from coal-fired power plants anymore. So let us clean up our air, let us clean up our water. And by the way, it has become the cheapest power available in many parts of the country. So now we are at a place where we need to restart our economy again and rebuild our economy again. And to me when we think about that and look at the economic benefits versus the economic costs, we have to look at what we know. And what we know is the last time our country faced an economic tailspin like this was of course in 2008. And when you look at what we did in response to that, the 2009 American Recovery Reinvestment Act, we invested through that about $90 billion in this clean energy program in this country through that. What did we get for that? We got about 100,000 solar wind clean energy projects all across the country that created thousands of construction jobs and almost immediately killing America to work. We weatherize a million homes through the Department of Energy’s weatherization program. What do we get for that? We got those energy efficiency workers back on the job. And by the way, we reduced the monthly power bill for a lot of cash strapped consumers and businesses at a time when they needed it the most. Through daily loan programs, we jumpstart it nearly 500 clean energy and clean tech companies in America. These are companies like Tesla, John, that now has 45,000 employees in our country and obviously revolutionized the market for electric vehicles. But there are also startup companies, startup companies focusing on solar and wind innovation that in addition to creating thousands of other jobs themselves, also expanded American innovation in those areas to the point where now, the technology that they developed 10 years ago has made solar and wind the cheapest power available in many parts of the country. So we have done this before. We are at a precipice in our country again economically, we are hurting, we are in a bad place. But the past show that we can do the right thing, and we can build it back better, we can build it back faster, and we can build it back smarter and more resilient. And that is what I hope we do.

John: And we are going to do that and coal is not the answer. Let us just be clear on that. Coal is not the future.

Bob: Absolutely.

John: Well said and those are great examples. And for our listeners out there that want to reach Bob and his great organization and his colleagues, and join 9000 other environmental entrepreneurs, please check out www.e2.org. He is Bob Keefe, he is Executive Director, he is my friend, he is making an impact and making the world a better place every day. And thank you again, Bob, for being with us on the Impact podcast.

Bob: Thank you, John.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy. It is the largest fully-integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider, and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States, and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. I am so honored and privileged to have my great friend with us today, Erik Grigoryan. Erik is the founder and CEO of Environment Group. He is the former Minister of Environment of Armenia, and the Chair of the Interstate Ecological Council of CIS. He is a national designated authority of Green Climate Fund, Adaptation Fund, Political and Operational Focal Point of Global Environmental Facility, and Climate Convention of Armenia. Welcome to Impact Podcast, Erik Grigoryan.

Erik Grigoryan: Hi, John. Thank you very much for inviting me for this interesting podcast. I am happy to talk with you.

John: Well, let me just share with our listeners, and give them a little bit of a background. First, let me just say hello to all of our wonderful listeners around the world, but especially this interview is happening from Fresno, California, which is considered little Armenia in the United States. And of course, you are sitting in Yerevan, Armenia, so, barev hayastan to all of our great brothers and sisters around the world that are listening. It is just an honor to have you on [inaudible].

John: Just for our listeners to understand, Erik, first and foremost, is a great friend of mine. Second of all, he is exactly the reason why we created the show, the Impact Podcast, because Erik inspires me, and inspires thousands of others on the impacts that he has made in his journey. It is just an honor to have you on today, and share a little bit about your journey, what you did leading up to becoming the Minister of the Environment in Armenia, and then the accomplishments you, and the great Ministers and leadership in Armenia accomplished the last two years for the environment. And then, we are going to go into the future, and talk a little bit about your new company, and what you intend to achieve, and your vision for your new company.

John: So, Erik, before we get going here, and talking about all the amazing accomplishments that you have left in the last two years, and the impact you made in Armenia, that is going to last hundreds of years into the future because of your great leadership. Can you share with our listeners your journey, where you grew up, where you got educated, and your journey leading up to being named the Minister of the Environment of Armenia?

Erik: Thank you. First of all, I am also very happy that it started from Fresno, because Fresno is a very unique place for all of Armenia’s at least [inaudible] because of William Saroyan, my favorite writer. I am so happy because of that topic.

Erik: For my journey, I was born in Kapan. It is a small city South in Armenia. I studied in Armenia. I started in Armenia. So, first thing, some environment economy exile, I did my first education in Yerevan, then I continued in Greece. I studied environment management in Greece in Aegean University. Then I continued in Dresden Technical University in Germany. After I continued also again in Greece, did some PhD on environment economics. So, this is generally about my education.

Erik: And working, I started like twenty years ago again, in Minister of Environment. I started with my internship in Ministry, then get different jobs in Leading Specialist, Senior Specialist, Head of Division of International Corporation. After I left Ministry for a few years, worked for different international organizations like USAID, The World Bank, or UNDP, and other institutions. But after few years, I returned back to government as advisor of Prime Minister, And then, I become a first deputy minister for a year, and for last two years I served as a Minister of Environment.

Erik: To be honest, this political position actually is really a privilege for every citizen to be able to contribute for the well-being of citizens, so I am happy that I took this position, and happy what we achieved, and it was really very, very interesting and busy time, it was a very busy time to work.

John: Well, listen, I have in my hand, and I have read what you accomplished, why you were their Minister of Environment, with of course, first of all, your great team, many of whom I met and they are just both wonderful people, and also very [inaudible] to your inspiration and leadership, but then also your colleagues, the other ministers, and of course the Prime Minister. So I know nothing gets done alone, and it is a team effort, but I read what you accomplished the first two years there, and it was a hundred eleven points.

John: Like I told you off the air for our listeners, Erik and I can spend five hours together, it feels like five minutes. And I am never bored, I am always learning. But I would like for you today, I would like to go over some of the highlights of the a hundred eleven points of accomplishments for the environment that you did, and you did with the team, and leadership from Armenia during your ten years.

John: So let us just start with something really, really near and dear to so many people’s hearts, the issue of trees and forest management. Can you share a little bit about the background of historical forest management in Armenia, which you have shared with me before, which is absolutely fascinating. And what you, and the Prime Minister, and your colleagues achieved during your leadership period, the last two years in forest management?

Erik: For the last twenty to twenty five years, it was a very hard time for a forest management in Armenia, because starting from 90s, that was a some kind of energetic crisis. It was a lot of illegal cutting in the beginning, but it was a primary like a cutting of trees. But as in many countries, after this changing of societies or management, there are some groups are creating some rules. They were trying to take all these businesses, illegal businesses, with illegal logging, and timber production, and others.

Erik: And it was more than twenty five years. It was a lot of illegal cutting in Armenia, and at the same time, almost not any reforestation a part. So what we did actually, we started with legal acts, we changed a lot. It was a lot of changes, criminal law and other different legal acts, we changed the institutional structures, and we involved different state statures, like a police, environment inspectorate. And we started to fight actually, but it took more than one year. But in the end, I can assure that more than 90% decrease of illegal logging was in Armenia.

Erik: And in this moment, there was just few cases, more than 90% if not more. It was an achievement because of work of team, it’s Armforest, with the State Inspectorate, it was police, it was our local authorities or whatever. It was a lot of protests by a local people, who were involved in this business, but results that we have today, is really very good.

Erik: At the same time, we started another also activities to start the reforestation efforts. In 2019, it was the first year that government allocated more than $1 million, and we were able to plant half million trees to involve the local people. And the same people, they were involved in this illegal logging processes. They become a worker to workers to start the reforestation, but it was just beginning because we have a very ambitious plans to double forest covering Armenia. It was like more than 300,000 hectares.

Erik: If we will start this process, it has already started, this year also the government allocated 1 million, next year will be 2 million. We believed that in the next month, one of our international donor institutions will approve about $20 million grants again to reforestation, so it will be a very unique chance to combine the social economic and environment aspects, and we will be able actually to hire a lot of people for the seasonal works, and thousands of local people will be involved in this reforestation process.

Erik: This process had just started. I believe that the future steps and future activities will be broader and broader, and the forest sector will become some kind of locomotive for not only for environmental activities, but also to support local, social, and economic aspects.

John: Wow. Can you just share from your perspective, because you explained it to me when you were touring me through Armenia and showing me so many fascinating aspects of not only our great homeland, and as the core city, but then of course, the beautiful environmental elements of Armenia, why trees, and trees in particular are so important to a society? Any society, but of course, Armenia which had been deforested, why is the reforestation, and new trees, and taking care of trees so important to the sustainability of the future of all of the planet that we live in?

Erik: It is trees and the forest essentially just a very, I would say, amazing place to work, amazing place to assure our better climate, it is a supporting land, it is supporting water, it is supporting societies. It has so many aspects that you can consider. Also, to the forest itself is a place for a biodiversity.

Erik: I would like to mention that Armenia is one of the forty biodiversity hot spots globally. So there are everyone, probably in the US, a lot of people hear about the Madagascar or Amazon is very, very well known places. But in Europe, also there are two regions, it is Northern Mediterranean and Caucasian region. It is a biodiversity hot spots and it is a very unique biodiversity.

Erik: For example, we have a leopard. It is the last leopard actually in European continent, it is Caucasian leopard and we have leopards living in nature, and one of leopards now living just seventy kilometres from the capital Yerevan. So once you are protecting forest, it is also the home of the many biodiversity species. But also again, it is not only the environment aspect, but it is also the climate, the social, it is economic, and we are rehabilitating the forest areas. We are not creating the new forest there, but it was a forest area previously, but it was heavily impacted by different illegal actions or other actions.

Erik: Now they are returning back to nature what we took previously, because in the beginning of 90s, there was no any gas, electricity, so it was an energetic crisis and forest was used by all people as firewood for heating, and others. Now it is time to return back what we took, and all these actions that we are now starting to do, it is to return back. Plus, if you have forest, it means you have a better climate, you have a better water balance. It is really very amazing.

Erik: Even after this COVID actually, when Armenian government started some economic supporting programs, one of these programs was the planting of trees. And during the ten to fifteen days, we were able to plant two million trees, and to hire more than one thousand local people. We are from one side, we were able to take people who were affected because of COVID that the other unemployment activities come from other sides, but they did the planting of seeds will bring some better environmental effects in future.

John: Perfect. That is just so amazing. I know because of you, and the Prime Minister’s vision, when I was there in Armenia last October, you even announced the new initiative and you gave out a bunch of little baby trees to the entire audience that day. So that was so meaningful, and it felt so good. I am just so excited for the future of Armenia with more and new trees coming in the reforestation. I think it just means we have a more sustainable, and brighter, and cleaner future in Armenia ahead of us.

John: Let us talk about something that is a big issue around the world, a big issue in the United States, and a big issue in California, but also you put it on the agenda in Armenia. The issue of reusable plastic bags or reusable bags versus plastic bags, and how do we get plastic bags out of the ecosystem? What action did you take on the issue of plastic bags in Armenia?

Erik: We just banned the use of single use plastic. It will start from 2022, so from January 2022, it will be banned. So sale and realization of plastic sets and bags with up to fifty microns will be just banned in Armenia. So, no one can sell it. Why we give also the time also for the business to somehow change their activities, to start the production of biodegradable bags, or to switch to paper, or other. But my strength believe that within five to ten years, maybe it is even earlier, it will be banned globally, because you are using usually up to fifteen minutes while single use plastic bag, and then it will remain in nature for five hundred years. So it is fairly sustainable way of use this for plastic bags.

Erik: Not only a banned in Armenia, but we also send the letter to our colleagues in the former Soviet Union countries, to Eurasian union, to promote also the activities in their regions. But yes, it was banned in Armenia. It went through the government decree, it went to Parliament, and everyone was voted on banning. This was one hundred fifteen to zero voting to ban the plastic bags in Armenia.

Erik: But it was the only the first step because now we started new process, that was a deposit-refund system for plastic bags. So this system will give a possibility to reuse plastic bags up to 99% is working in many European countries like in Germany, or in Estonia, and other countries. So you are paying some small amount for your bottle when you are buying something, and then you just returning and getting back your money. It is giving chance to collect these bottles and to reuse it again.

John: Wonderful. Again, you put Armenia, you took us again, like many societies needed to make that important change. You took us from the back of the pack and you put us right on the forefront of how plastic bags should be treated and kept out of the ecosystem to keep a cleaner environment for all of our sake. Not only our sake in our generation, but also of course, our children and grandchildren’s generations as well.

John: For our listeners who just joined us, we have Erik Grigoryan today. He is a great friend, he is huge environmentalist, and leader, he is the owner of the Environment Group. To find Erik, you could find him at www.environment.am, www.environment.am. Erik, where else can they find you on Facebook and LinkedIn as well?

Erik: Yes. Through LinkedIn, it is Erik Grigoryan. It is easy to find and also on Facebook page.

John: Perfect. I am on your beautiful website now. It is a gorgeous website full of lots of resources, and all of your colleagues that you have at the environment group with you. I really highly recommend anybody who is interested in making the world a better place, both from an environmental standpoint, and a sustainability standpoint, to contact Erik. He is not only brilliant, but he is also really wonderful to work with.

John: Erik, let us talk a little bit about water management and the beautiful, the beautiful and iconic, Lake Sevan in Armenia. Lake Sevan and water management issues are on your point of a hundred and eleven issues that you tackled the first two years as the Minister of the Environment. Can you share a little bit about some of the wins that you got in water management and with Lake Sevan?

Erik: Yes. It was also some cumulative, like a negative situation with the Lake Sevan, and also the rivers, and underground water resources used by different users. For decades, it was a lot of pollution to Lake Sevan, and it was worsening the quality of Lake Sevan, the biggest water drinking water reservoir in Caucasians region.

Erik: We started a lot of activities. We started intensive cleaning of coastal zones from this organic materials that polluting. Also, we started the process to remove the buildings that were in the area and even in the water, we negotiated with the international donor organization. So, EU allocated €5 million to start the wastewater treatment activities, and to start different other activities to support quality of water, we negotiated with Germany institutions to bring some more knowledge working with Armenian Academia Science and the monetaring institution to see what we can do, because like ten to fifteen years ago, it was another scientific improvement that we need to increase level of Lake Sevan to keep the water ecosystem in balance. But because of climate change because of intensive pollution coming from communities.

Erik: Now, we need to act more actively, more intensively. So all this work was taken and a huge road-map was prepared, and it was presented to all the donor institutions like the UNDP, the World Bank, ADB, EBRD, all institutions that are working in Armenia. I believe that the process that we started for rehabilitation to support the quality of Lake Sevan will go and we will have a better situation than we have now.

Erik: Another problem was related to a small hydropower plant because it was a time that a lot of hydropower plant was built without considering environmental standards and environmental requirements. So we have developed a lot of legal acts, the minimum ecological flow, the water meters, what kind of measurement should be done? The penalties that were changed because previously, it was even, without almost any penalty to use more water resources, and it was making the conflict between traditional water users for agriculture in turn. So a lot of changes in the management of hydropower plants and third biggest part were with underground, artesian groundwater, because of the fish ponds, taking a lot of groundwater, a lot, more than it was even possible to regenerate.

Erik: So we did a lot of changes also in legal acts and we started to close abounded ponds only in 2019. Because of these activities, we were able to save one hundred million cubic meters of groundwater, it is drinking water. So it is more than all of Yerevan is using and it was just starting actually. I believe that the action that is how also, you know, it will give a chance to rehabilitate all these areas and have better water management because in Armenia, we have a lot of water resources like four times more than we used. But because of water resource management, we had the problem with irrigation in some areas or using it for other purposes. So once we will be able to conduct all these activities to assure that all our citizens will get access to water resources.

John: That is wonderful. One of the things you just mentioned during that narrative with regards to the important work and accomplishments that you made, with regards to water management like Sevan, and the future of Armenia, you talked a little bit about relying on German engineering. One of your strong suits I have learned, and you have shared stories with me is that you have a unique ability to reach out to other experts, subject matter experts, and leaders around the world, can you share a little bit about during your tenure and before, where you have built bridges that have been beneficial to Armenia, other countries and their leadership, and how you have sought experts in different subject matters in different parts of the world, which will benefit Armenia now, and for years, decades to come?

Erik: Oh, you know, John, in the environment, we do not have any borders. So everyone is in one boat. So you need to cooperate with your neighbor, within society, with everyone. Because even if you will do everything, you know, let us take the plastic, even if you will do everything good in Germany or in Norway and other, there is huge plastic pollution coming for example from India. It will go to the fish as a microplastic and eating your fish in Germany will harm you. The same with climate change I mean, even if you have a good standard in your country, climate change will hit everyone in every country, so you should cooperate. We are very active in working in international institutions. Within two years, Armenia became a member of the nine highest decision making bodies in international environmental conventions, and the first time Armenia became a member of the Green Climate Fund Council, it is a fund that should allocate one hundred billion dollars to fight climate change. It was really very good cooperation in working with different institutions, working with different countries. We were able to sign an MOU with China, the Emirates, with Austria, with other institutions.

Erik: So we work very hard for it because I mean, you are not an island if you are working in the environment., you should cooperate. Knowledge and experience are very important to what they can bring because you do not need to know to find the new solutions if it was already found in like in France or in other places. But at the same time, we were able to develop innovative climate finance mechanism. It was a very interesting method that was combining the country’s external data and commitments under the Paris Agreement. The idea that many developing countries that have a foreign debt and you know, it is difficult to serve it, but at the same time, a developed country has an obligation to support climate change activities of developing countries. So we developed a tool that combining all this, you know, that from one side the obligations of developed countries from the other side activities that should be taken in developing countries. We started with France, Germany, Japan, the US, and Russia, Armenia, but it is not a local tool. So I believe it will work with us and our neighbors. It may be replicated in other countries and after COVID, this will become more important, this tool, I mean. It will be a very useful tool to use because a money to be spend for climate adaptation and mitigation are needed to be available now. It will give a chance to developing countries to have this money and to stand for these climate activities.

John: Yes, but you say it so wisely. But many, many people when they lead, they are an island. They make themselves an island. You were different, just like you laid out, you led with an open mind of there are no borders. You relied on experts from already developed countries to bring the best technologies to Armenia. That is why we benefited, and that is why you had such a productive two years there. So that is to your credit, that is the culture you created. Many leaders, whether it is in business, whether it is in government, make themselves an island, and do not do what you did. But you reached out and that is fascinating, and also it shows you that paradigm really yields higher and better and faster results. That is to your credit, I will tell you that Erik, that is super impressive.

John: Let us talk a little bit about a fun topic. You know, Mr. Elon Musk gets lots of publicity, and the beautiful vehicles he has created and brought to the world, and Tesla is booming in terms of sales in terms of making the world a cleaner place and getting us moved around. Talk a little bit about your production and your impact on what you did with your team with regards to electric vehicles in Armenia to clean up the air and to clean up the environment, and make Armenia both a place that it is easy to get around, but also a place that has clean air and a wonderful environment to enjoy?

Erik: First of all, I just want to say that I am a big fan of electric cars. I believe that again, there will be a time that all cars will become electric. I remember once I was in San Francisco meeting with my friend in the area, everyone was riding in a Tesla or other electric cars. It came with the luxury sport Audi car, the quattro with everything. I ask him, you know, everyone is riding electric cars here, why do you don’t have this big engine car? He said, “You know, I think it is the last five years that people have this car. So I want to enjoy this car because all cars can become electric.” So what we did in Armenia actually be exempt from value-added tax, and it became very cheap to import car. The result was really amazing because it was only like in 2018, it was only one electric car imported in Armenia, it is like second half of 2018. In the 2019 second half, it was like around one hundred fifty. It is also one electric motorcycle and it was zero before and it became like five hundred.

Erik: Now, we have official dealers that are selling only electric cars. So it is booming here. I believe it is booming globally. But electric cars are not only interesting because of clean air, but it is also supporting the science we have these Polytechnic Universities. We have the IT sector growing very fast. Since last like ten years, was a time for example, for smartphones, I believe that this decade will be more, the innovation in electric cars in this sector. So once we have service, we have cars, it is also supporting science, I believe. It is also good for electric production because in many countries we have a problem with the usage in day and night time. So it is good as balancing also your electric bills. So many aspects why the electric car is good, but my impression that within a few years, the production of electric cars will be so easy that it will be organized in many, many small countries. I believe that Armenia will become a country that will start to produce electric cars and even export to the neighboring countries.

John: How many years off are we from Armenia producing their own electric cars? Do you have knowledge or some vision for that, Erik?

Erik: Taking into account how fast this sector is growing, and taking into account that the traditional cars have like thirty, forty thousand details and the electric cars just two three thousand, I believe it is very easy to organize and maybe, you know, I am too ambitious, but it may be organized within five years, I believe. I believe.

John: Wow, that is great. Hey, it is good to be ambitious because if you do not set big goals, you do not make big progress. So it is good to be ambitious. Erik, you have talked a little bit about with me this innovative tool of debt-for-nature. Can you explain to our listeners, what debt-for-nature means to you and why it is important?

Erik: Well, the idea is very simple. I mean, this tool was developed in ages like thirty years ago but was used only when the country has problems with solving their foreign debt and some part of the debt, they started to spend in their local environment issues. But it was just giving something for countries that are not able to pay. The tool that we developed is completely different. It is based on both interests, interests of developing countries, and the interests of developed countries. So within the Paris Agreement that was signed a few years ago, with all countries including the US, and then the US decided to, you know, be removed from the agreement. But they are still there. So the countries decided to allocate one hundred billion dollars to developing countries to start mitigation and adaptation of climate change. But the talks, forums and method on is how to do it? How it will work? What kind of method will be developed, it is still not clear.

Erik: So we developed our own platform, it was developed by Armenia with the support of the World Bank. This is one of the platforms so, for example, we need to pay like twenty million dollars to France, for example. We need to pay until 2050. So still thirty years that we need to pay them. At the same time, France took an obligation to pay annually one billion dollars to the developing countries to support climate adaptation and mitigation measures. So this tool just combining these two operations, and we are not paying this twenty million to France, but it will be like swops from the France obligation. These twenty million will go, for example, for reforestation efforts in Armenia.

Erik: Instead of waiting ten years, fifteen years or until they will get their money back and you know, to see how to allocate or, you know, climate adaptation and mitigation, they can act now. So it is very simple and we started with France, with Germany. Also, this tool was presented during the UN General Assembly last year by Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan. But tomorrow, it may work between Nigeria and Germany, between Egypt and France, and other countries. It is giving the chance to have that money now and to start to act now.

John: Make an impact now, not in the future.

Erik: Yes. Because it is still a lot of talk between developing and the developed country. They are blaming each other. You are, more polluters, you did a lot, whatever. So let us put all these talks to one side and to find a solution that is good for both sides, and to start actions now.

John: That is so important to start actions now. We can not afford to wait, Erik, with regards to the world and where we are now. With regard to the environment, people need wherever they are with whatever resources they have, everyone needs to take action now, way beyond our milieu. This goes for the United States, this goes for every country. Actions are needed now. So that makes such great sense that it gives a mechanism and a tool so people can take action now, and not wait for further degradation of the environment. That is really brilliant. You know, for our listeners out there, we have got Erik Grigoryan with us today. It is really just such a joy to have him with us. He is just so inspirational. Every time I am with him, I learn more. To find Erik and his great work at the Environment Group, you could go to www.environment.am. How simple is that? www.environment.am. Erik, talk a little bit about your vision for the Environment Group, and your work now, and years to come. Running the Environment Group, making the world a better place. Go ahead now.

Erik: So the idea to star to support not only, you know, the public activities, but also the private sectors. Because every year, the environment is becoming more and more important. If in the 70s or the 80s, the private sector was recognized as an enemy of the environment. So everyone is blaming the private sector, saying you are polluting like others. But now, every player see I mean, the government, civil society, academic or private sector, everyone is in the place to work.

Erik: Because like LED lamps, everything was developed by private companies, and now it is giving a chance to significantly reduce CO2 emission. All environmentally friendly technologies are coming from the environment sector. So the idea now to bring the new horizons for the private sector also, environment, social governance, how to be more environmentally friendly. How to work with better energy efficiency, water management, be more climate neutral, and others. So the company, I mean the Environment Group itself is just like an umbrella bringing in experts from all region I mean, we have experts from the US, from Germany, Slovakia, Kazakhstan, Russia, Armenia, Georgia, so many experts from different fields. We will bring our knowledge, our experience to make, you know, at least this time to make the region greener. But whatever we are doing for a better environment,

John: That is wonderful. I just feel the future is so bright with young leaders like you running such an important organization like the Environment Group, I feel that Armenia’s future is so bright, environmentally speaking, after hearing all of the great achievements you and the Prime Minister and your colleagues made the last two years. Now, with your new vision of privatizing your work, and being able to inspire, and to make an impact not only in Armenia but other places that you are hired, I think that is just wonderful and I am so excited for you. I cannot wait to have you back on the Impact Podcast to share all of the achievements you are going to do in the coming months and years ahead, Erik. For our listeners again, to find Erik, go to www.environment.am. Erik Grigoryan, you are not only a great friend, but you are the reason why I created the Impact Podcast because you have made already a huge impact on this planet, and going to continue to make an impact for decades to come. I thank you for your time today, and I just thank you for our friendship. Thanks again for joining us on the Impact Podcast.

Erik: Thank you very much.

John: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by The Marketing Masters. The Marketing Masters is a boutique marketing agency offering website development and digital marketing services to small and medium businesses across America. For more information on how they can help you grow your business online, please visit the marketingmasters.com

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. I am John Shegerian and we are so lucky to have with me today, Sam Geil. He is a longtime friend. He is one of the leaders here in the Central Valley of California. Welcome to Impact, Sam.

Sam: Thank you, John. It is great to be here.

John: You know, Sam, you have done so much in your life and I am, of course, great friends with your son, Patrick, and he has become part of even the Shegarian family over the years and we just adore your family. So, this is a very biased interview, I have to tell my listeners. But regardless of all the bias, there is a reason why you are on Impact today. Because you have truly made an impact in so many ways, way beyond just the environment and sustainability. You have made an impact here in the Central Valley and the community you have lived in and worked in for many, many years. So, I want to share a little bit first on your background. I want you to share with our listeners your biography and your journey before we go into specifics of what you are doing today, day by day.

Sam: Very good John. Well, I am a native Californian born in the Bay Area. Went to high school and college in the Bay Area and married my wife, Donna, when we both attended San Jose State back in the 70s. We have two wonderful children. And as you mentioned and two really wonderful grandchildren now, so we are in that phase of our life now where we have grandkids and it is deja vu, right, all over again. That really is the highlight right there, John. I mean, you know, we could wicked stuff right there, you know what I mean. But after Donna and I got married, we both had careers and I spent the first ten years in the computer business in Silicon Valley.

And then after transferring to Manheim Beach, California, I got an offer and joined Grundfos and in Fresno, California, a Danish manufacturer of water pumps and water systems, and I was there for eighteen years. Did a lot of cool stuff traveling all over the world, opening up companies and just having a heck of a time as a business person. That is pretty much where I cut my teeth. And then in 2004, I left Grundfos and accepted a position in Fresno – because we had moved to Kansas City – in Fresno as the CEO of our family business, my brother’s business, which they started in 1986. [inaudible] Commercial Industrial Services Company. So, I was the CEO and Chairman of the Board there until 2013 and then left to start my own consulting business, Geil Consulting, which is what I do now.

John: And at Geil Consulting and for our listeners out there who would like to connect with Sam and Geil Consultin, you go to www.geilconsulting.com. What exactly is your day-to-day work look like at Geil Consulting.

Sam: Sure. It is really I would say pretty eclectic. Actually the business model I started with is not exactly what I have today, but that is okay. Because what I have learned is the market, you know, seeks kind of its own level and what I started with, John, was focusing on mentoring. You are mentoring younger people if they wanted to sharpen their skills in leadership and management; board governance sitting on the board of companies, mostly small to medium-sized; and then general consultancy. So, because my background is really so broad. You know, I am really a generalist at its purest form. I can work with organizations that need help in any element of the P&L. So, I pretty much span everything from revenue to net income. And what has happened is my reputation is more of a doer, right? That is what people, you know, if they ask you, “You know, what would Sam do?” You know he is a doer.

And so, that is pretty much what ended up being the, you know, value-added proposition in all the cases with my clients, so I sit on for five boards. I mentor about thirty to thirty-five young people and I have one major client, which I want to talk about and that is a major foundation underneath the California Community Foundation under LA. And I was retained to address homelessness in the city of Merced back in 2006. Since then, we have granted close to a little over two million dollars to almost providers in the city of Merced to help them with addressing the homeless crisis there. So, that is probably, of all the things I have ever done as a consultant, that is probably the most impactful and the one that has been the most life-changing for me, because I have had to get on the street. You know, I have had to get into it pretty deep. It is not a research project. This is a direct funding project where the money goes directly to the folks that need it. So, now, we are focused on COVID-19 and doing basically the same work, looking for agencies and organizations to help grant money so that they can do their great work. So, it is a lot of fun.

John: That is really great stuff, you know. Again, a part of our population that gets historically marginalized and growing up in New York City, I used to walk by homeless people everyday, going to high school and then college and Manhattan. And I once heard Dan rather talk about his experience in New York City with homeless people and he said every day he would pass a homeless person which was everyday walking the streets of New York, it is impossible not to wear. Whatever part of the city you are in, he would always say a little prayer to himself and the prayer was simple. It was for the grace of God, and I always remembered what he said and it is really stuck with me the rest of my life with regards to our tragic homeless situation. Throughout the United States, I do not think any community is really immuned from this and it is so wonderful. I did not know that part of your professional and personal life and that is a great and impactful thing that you are doing and I am so happy to hear that.

And it is, again, you know, it continues to polish the Geil branding the Shegarian household. That is for sure, but you are always a rock star in our household nonetheless, but that is really important work. Good for you, good for you. I had no idea. You know, so at Geil Consulting, you have the young people you mentor. You have the homeless issue you are addressing in Merced and then board work that you do. You know, Sam, after we had become friends and after Pat became an adopted part of our family and the two families got to know each other, you had the idea of IGIHOF and I would love for you to share, you know, the genesis of your environmental passion and why you and how you came up with that . But where did that emanate from in your soul and in your persona? How did that even come about?

Sam: Yeah. Well, it started a long time ago, John. It started with my upbringing. We grew up in a small town in the valley of Merced. And my mother raised four children by herself and had to lean heavily into the church for support. So, we all attended very small Catholic School in Merced. And so, we got exposed to the Bible in a very early age and probably, the part that struck me the most was Genesis in the very beginning and if you really read Genesis, a big portion of Genesis is about, you know, God’s wish for a man to really take care of the gift that we receive called this earth, right? And so, as I grew up and went, you know, into Boy Scouts and all that good stuff, one [inaudible] that really stuck with me was you always leave your campsite better than when you got there. Right? And that was really drilled into us. You know, you got there. You unloaded and then before you left, you had to really make sure that campground was in good shape.

So at an early age, those kinds of things were reinforced, you know, as a young person. So as I grew up, I always kind of had an interest in ecology if you want to call it that. So when the 60s and 70s hit, it was a natural thing to get involved in and get interested in so, you know, I paid a lot of attention to what was going on in that arena. Once I hit my professional career, I was, again, exposed to, you know, corporate ecology, if you want to call it that. We did not call it that, but that is really what it was and it really came together when I work for the pump company, Grundfos. Grundfos was a company way before its time when it comes to sustainability and partly because of, you know, the product. Right? The mission which was to provide water to the world. And so I was so fortunate to have worked for a company that allowed me to travel internationally and actually, you know, do some things that really nobody else really would have the opportunity to do it unless you were in that space and time. So, you know, the timing was perfect an, so when, I do not know if you remember, but 1998 there was a hurricane in Central America. The hurricane Mitch, which wiped out thousands of people and, you know, number of bridges and water systems.

And so as part of my responsibility in Central America, I went down and tried to help and establish new water systems for the people down there. And during my visit to Nicaragua, I stayed in Managua, the capital, and the hotel I was in overlooked Lake Managua, Flat Lake Nicaragua. So Lake Nicaragua is the largest freshwater lake in Central America. And then Lake Managua is really another lake kind of attached to it. You know, the one feeds the other. And there were some spectacular native fish in that lake. So when I got to my room on the eighth or ninth floor, I looked out and the lake had the consistency of like a chocolate milkshake. I mean, it was really in bad shape. And so I asked my host at the time, you know, was that the result of Hurricane Mitch and he said no, it is really just pollution. And I should really [inaudible] people actually still, you know, live off that lake and I just could not believe it.

And so without disclosing the company that was the culprit, I asked the guy said, “You know, where is the pollution come from and unfortunately and and totally embarrassed, it was primarily because of a US company dumping their waste into the lake. And that was really, really embarrassing and that was a joke to my system. So putting that one in my little, you know, cabeza, I started to work with our company more aggressively in the area of sustainability, and then I left in 2004 and moved back to Fresno and was, then the CEO of our family business. And that is when you and Kevin and, I believe, Aaron came through and shared your business concept, which was brilliant. And that was the same time I was starting to get into, you know, the whole and it is more serious way now. As CEO, I wanted to green up our business. I wanted that to be my legacy was.

John: I remember that.

Sam: Yeah, the greening of the business. So we ended up taking a very aggressive stance on, you know, our carbon footprint and we actually took a very bold action to eliminate about a million dollars worth of business overnight because I simply refuse to continue to do dirty work and that dirty work was basically cleaning grocery store floors, you know, with scrubbers and strippers and all that and the propane that was, you know, that was the offshoot of the machines that were running. Right? And all that dust and propane ended up in the store,right on your fruit and veggies and all that stuff and I just could not live with that. So overnight, I just pulled our clients. You know, we are out of it. You know, we are not going to do that business anymore. And that was a real interesting decision and a really interesting point in our company because, you know, the employees were like, “Okay. What are we going to do now?” You know and I said, “Do not worry. You know, we are going to find clients that, you know match up to our values and they are out there. We just got to go find them and we were able to do that.

So that whole journey of cleaning up our business forced me to attend a lot of conferences and conventions on the green industry, learning chemistry, you know, and in the building side of things, I got certified Green Build and all that stuff. Because I really wanted to know firsthand, you know, is this real or, you know, is this a game? So I did that and in the process of going to all these conferences, John, I had walk the exhibit floor talking to all these really cool manufacturers and entrepreneurs and people who are converting stuff into you know, recyclable goods and all that kind of good stuff. What I noticed was they had no marketing ability they were they were geeks like me that were really good at, you know, thinking about things, but marketing was not their forte and they did not have the money to market their products. So I thought, I wonder, you know, what would be a good way to help these guys, you know, get some air under their wings, do some marketing for nothing. Basically, for free. And that is where the concept of this Hall of Fame was born.

John: What year did you kick that off? What year was that kickoff?

Sam: Legally, we are in place in 2008. 2010 is when we started the nomination process and inducting people in the Hall of Fame. So we have been doing it since 2010 or 2011.

John: Right. For our listeners though who want to learn more about this great work that you are doing and understand it even deeper, they could go to www.gogreenhall.org. So you launch it in officially like let us just say 2010 where you started taking nominees. And talk about the journey the last ten years.

Sam: Sure. Well, this little thing is a fantastic journey and as you know in your entrepreneurial and you are starting up, you know, a lot of things happen, right? And yet, we prepared for the unexpected, but for the most part it was pretty smooth sailing. Think, it was really interesting when I would go to the urban areas and talk about the concept, people were very excited. Not so much in the rural. The rural areas, you know, “Well, we will see.” You know, they were pretty pessimistic about, you know, anything that had to do with environmental green sustainability, but once we started nominating and inducting,they could see that we were an inside-out organization, right? Not an outside-in. So my mission was to influence the c-suite, the board directors, and say, “Hey, look there is a better way to run your business. I have done it. I can show you how to be more profitable, be cleaner and healthier for your clients and your employees and build a more sustainable organization. And I always thought that model work better than, you know, being on the outside advocating and kind of screaming and yelling at them, right?

To me, this was a business proposition as well as an environmental proposition for sure and the way that I leverage the conversation was with our inductees and showing them what these great organizations have done and that they have a willingness to share their secrets and share their methods and processes on how to become greener or as I say now sustainable. And so, one of the things we did at Geil Enterprise is to be really the sustainability model was employee ownership. So, we sold the company into an ESOP and now, we have, you know, five hundred to six hundred employees. We have the opportunity that they would never have in this industry.You know, they own a piece of the rock and retire with a really strong retirement program. And so that ended up being more my legacy than anything else and that company was, you know, converting it to a hundred percent employee ownership which went flawlessly. So I deviate a little bit but [crosstalk]

John: No, no. That is a good deviation because that is an impact itself because you also show there are different ways to be an entrepreneur and you do not have to own the whole thing yourself. You do not have to, to be a great entrepreneur. So that, itself, is a wonderful lesson for our listeners out there. So that is really a good deviation actually. Thank you. So keep going.

Sam: So anyway, we have been doing this since 2010 or 2011. We have inducted over close to a hundred [inaudible] at organizations and people, including yourself, which we are very proud of. You and Ray C. Anderson were the first, you know, and that is good company, you know, that guy.

John: Oh my God. He is a legend. He came on the podcast in the beginning and leaned in and was excited to come on and I will tell you what, I still remember doing the interview with him and what a gentleman… First of all, what a gentleman and second of all, what a visionary. He was a great guy.

Sam: Actually, we have the last video of Ray C. Anderson before he passed away. So we are very fortunate to have gotten him on video, you know, before his passing. Anyway, so it has been going really well. We have a lot of really cool stories. If I can share one…

John: Please.

Sam: Yeah. There is a winery up in Mendocino called Frey Wineries. And they are the first biodynamic winery in the country, all right? And yeah, they are plugging along and they got nominated and they got inducted and it was not long after their abduction where a big, I will not say who it is, but a big box store called them and said, “hey look will buy everything you got. We are looking for you know, a biodynamic, you know environmental safe and all that good stuff a green company that makes wine and we want to offer that to our clients, you know, to our shoppers.” And so they would have probably had a harder time, you know, breaking into that that market if they had not gotten some exposure through [inaudible]. At least, that is what I am told so we were really proud of that story and I hope people, you know, if you like wines that are healthier to drink, that is what they do. And so that is one story. I mean, we have a number of stories like like that and we have had stories of people who have been inducted who ended up getting bought out. You know, they got their company bought and they made you know, some good coins, you know.

John: Nothing bad with that either by the way. There is nothing shameful about that at all either, right?

Sam: That is right.

John: Let us talk about another great story. Let us talk about what you have coming up. And, again, for our listeners out there who want to connect with Sam and his great company, you could go to www.geilconsuting.com. And if you want to learn more about what is happening with IGIHOF, you can check them out at gogreenhall.org. October 1st, you have a big event coming up. Share with our listeners a little bit of what is happening on October 1st. Why that is so important and things of that such.

Sam: Sure, sure. Well, historically, we have held our events on college campuses and we have decided that we want to have a home and really settle in one location. Because the amount of work and the carbon footprint we leave is really high as we move it around. Okay, and so by having one stationary place, we can lower our carbon footprint and we can build some stability and and also get some financial support, I think, that we would not have been able to get otherwise and that has come to fruition and so we were granted a sizable amount of money from a foundation to do this work. And so, we are very fortunate about that. So, we chose Merced and Merced because of UC Merced and they are our partner now in what we are doing. And that is a wonderful sustainability story. That campus is just about I think entirely silver LEED certified. It may be the greenest campus in the country. Maybe they are or Santa Barbara, but at least in the top two. Okay.

And so, we are really, really happy about that relationship and the plan was to have our event at the school. But what happened was there are two very old hotels in Merced, the El Capitan and the Tioga Hotel, that were purchased and have been renovated. Right? And the ultimate hotel, you know, a sustainability story. Basically, there were just transients living in these hotels and cleaned it up and in re-gentrifying, you know, Downtown Merced, California and our plan was to hold part of it there and at the Merced Theater, which is across the street from one of the hotels. it is the old Spanish theater in town and and that is being renovated into like an activities adult activities center, right, with small theater where you can put on shows and acts and put on concerts and so on and so on.

And so, what we decided to do because of COVID-19 is basically to this point, we have [inaudible] from that and we are going to do a virtual event there and and if things look good and they open up, we will do a combo. You know virtual and stream it live and full. So far, our inductees, our honorees, really, really embrace that approach. Some of them are international, so the travel would have been pretty egregious. I really, really like the fact that they could just dial in like we Are doing [inaudible] with video and we are excited about the change. Actually, we are actually excited about it because it really is a much better green approach than the traditional, where you have people flying in and staying in hotel rooms, and they have to rent a car, costs a lot of money. I think those days are behind us now. Honestly, John, I think more and more organizations are going to go virtual.

John: Well, it also shows why another reason, underlying reason, that makes you such a great and successful entrepreneur at your course and you are flexible. It is not all or nothing in the event, so you know, tragic circumstances beyond any of our controls happen to happen to the world, this COVID-19 situation. And instead of scratching your very important and relevant and impactful event, you found a way to make it happen otherwise. And that, again, is just that flexibility to me is just truly the trademark of people that I have seen become success over and over again and it is just not a luck thing. That flexibility, you know, is a common theme through entrepreneurs that go through life, through surreal success stories and you are one of those really blessed people that just have it. Whatever it is, you have it. And flexibility, again, proves out to be a great, great strength of yours and other entrepreneurs. And I want you to share. There is a lot of young people out there that listen to the show and look up to you, again, for mentorship. Talk a little bit about some of your trademark time hacks and what is your major secret super power that, again, has kept you ahead of now, so many changes that you have seen in society, business and otherwise throughout your life.

Sam: Wow, that is great question and I would say I was fortunate to be raised to work hard. There were certain principles that I was raised with and I call them the non-negotiables, all right? You know, that your parent teaches you or the people that influence your life and one of those was you work hard. Like I said, I was raised by a single mother. We did not have any money, but I always had money. I always had money. I had more money than my buddies. He had two parents. Because I hustle. You know, I [inaudible] and then I learned how to manage money, right? I learned the value of money and that was important. So hard work would be probably, you know, number one. And number two is self-awareness.

John: What do you mean by that?

Sam: Well, self-awareness is understanding who you are, what make me take and understand your limitations, right?

John: Got it. Got it. Your strengths and limitations, your strengths and limitations.

Sam: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And you know, I had some interesting tutoring by my one of my grandmothers who was very, very wise, you know, would say, play on your strengths, play on your strengths, play on your strengths. And, again, you know, I was fortunate to be to be mentored by a very loving and caring godparents and grandparents. So that gave me the passion for mentoring. So I would say, you know, hard work, self-awareness and then, you know give back. You know constantly giving back and some say pay it forward. And no limit to that. You know, it could be whatever. Whatever is the right thing to do and then, you know, over a practical perspective, you know, I learned how to time manage. I learned priority is more important than the calendar.

John: That is great.

Sam: I learned some basic tenants of quality, quality management, you know, getting things right the first time. You know, some of those lessons I learned in business, you know, be patient and be flexible. And I was very fortunate to work for companies that gave me the freedom. Because of my self-awareness, you know, I knew that I had a pretty strong ego. You know, I knew that I have a tendency to be more verbal than listen. I know I have a tendency to have a strong sense of urgency. And you know, my level of detail is not as high maybe as the demands of the job sometimes, but because I had that self-awareness, John, I either surrounded myself with people who had the strengths that I had weakness or displayed all my strengths. And that really, really, really, really paid off. And then I would say, to put a period at this, I was fortunate to work for a company that valued learning and that really was important lesson for me and I have been a life learner ever since that experience. And so…

John: Ongoing learning. You are a constant student.

Sam: That is right. Watching, learning, taking it all in and I would say that would be my story in a nutshell.

John: That is awesome. And Sam, before we have to say goodbye, anything else you want to promote, get out there to our listeners before we sign off for today? Of course, you are always welcome back on this show. This is your home. You have been on before and you have done such great work and you are such an important figure here in the valley. It is an honor for me to always have you on. But can you share anything else that you want to get out there or any shameless plugs for our listeners before we sign off for today?

Sam: No, I do not really have any shameless plug except I would like people to get involved with the green industry. I think that is where the opportunities are for all the young people coming up.

John: Very true, very true.

Sam: Regardless of what you are into: law, medicine. There is a green element to all of it. There is a sustainability element to all that.

John: It is true.

Sam: And so, that is my shameless promotion is to get kids to go towards that type of future as opposed to the traditional lane that kids have been on for years and I think it will pay off in spades form. I think it will really have dividends form in the long run and I wish I could live long enough to see you at all. But that is my shameless promotion.

John: Well, it is a great shameless plunging for… And will give you a shameless plug for any of our listeners out there that want to meet Sam or hire Sam to beyond the board or get involved with their company or mentor them, go to www.geilconsulting.com. And to learn more about Sam’s great upcoming IGIHOF event on October 1st, 2020 in Merced, go to www.gogreenhall.org. Sam Geil, you are a great friend. You are making an impact and making the world a better place. It is an honor to be your friend. It is a pleasure to have you on our show. And thank you for being everything that you are.

Sam: Well, thank you, John and love to you and your family.

John: You are the best. Take care.

Sam: Thanks, John.

John: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking engine revolutionizing the talent booking industry. With hundreds of athletes, entrepreneurs, speakers, and business leaders, Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent for your next event. For more information, please visit letsengage.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. We are so privileged to have with us today one of the most honored actors in the history of television. Ed Asner has been the recipient of eight Emmy awards and sixteen nominations as well as five golden globe awards and he served as the national president of the Screen Actors Guild for two terms. He was inducted into the tv academy hall of fame in ninety ninety-six and he was honored by the Screen Actors Guild as the thirty-eighth recipient of the prestigious life achievement award for career achievement and humanitarian accomplishment. Welcome to the Impact podcast. One of my favorite actors in my entire life, Ed Asner.

Ed: How do you do?

John: I am very well. How do you do today?

Ed: I am doing real good. And [inaudible] that is an introduction. I think I have to run for president.

John: You should run for president. You know more than most people. That is what I will tell you that right now.

Ed: Certainly no more than the guy whose fat ass is sitting on the chair.

John: Alright, we are going to get into all of that but the first thing- before we get into that, can you just share with our listeners. I mean, listen, I am junkman. You see, I am so excited to talk about your book Son of a Junkman which you recently wrote and I have the book in my hand right now. I have read it. I am a junkman, that is my business. I recycle electronics so to read your story and growing up in Kansas. I want you to share your background before even becoming the legendary actor that you became. Can you please share just some of your upbringing that is in this great book: Son of a Junkman which is available of course in every bookstore and on Amazon.com.

Ed: How lovely. That is an unexpected plug I did not expect to hear.

John: Okay.

Ed: But I am glad to have it.

John: Yeah.

Ed: Because I am proud of the book. I am proud of my past. I am proud of my parents. There is a lot I am proud of. I wish I was a better conductor for keeping the purity and the sanctity that they demonstrated. I wish I could claim it as well as they did.

John: I am loving the book. One of the best parts of the book is how you give thanks to so many people and you really look back with such warmth, admiration, love, and gratitude to so many people but one person, I want to just mention here is a gentleman I have never heard of, George Corporon for teaching me the possibilities in this world concerning news and Ed Ellis my beloved football coach for teaching me the meaning of tough but fair. When I think back to my childhood as watching you on television, as the now legendary Lou Grant on The Mary Tyler Moore show and I think of myself as a boss today, and who I try to emulate myself after. I really do think of the tough but fair Lou Grant. Is this where you got a lot of that Lou Grant persona from, George Corporon and Ed Ellis?

Ed: George was a highly principled man. During the invasion of Europe by the allied armies. He seemed to have suffered from that experience but he kept his dignity and he was married to a hottie and I found him to be an inspirer of ideals no matter how much he may have suffered. He was a beautiful man. My football coach was a beautiful man.

John: Yes. You said, my beloved football coach.

Ed: Yes.

John: That is a nice way to remember somebody.

Ed: He was.

John: Tough but fair. When you said he taught you how to be tough but the meaning of tough but fair. That is what I always saw you as, as Lou Grant, tough but fair.

Ed: Well, I try to be. Probably he said, that is what the writer is trying to [inaudible] me.

John: Did you enjoy writing your life story in this great book, Son of Junkman? Was that a pleasure for you or is it work?

Ed: Not that great a pleasure. Yes, the initial writer Samuel Joseph Warren came forward with maybe four hundred questions. I do not know how many.

John. Wow.

Ed: That made it easy for me because I could open up on each one but then when I saw it was q and a, q and a, it did not please me. I wanted it to have more flow to it. So Matthew Seymour came in and he gave it a flow.

John: Got it.

Ed: And between the two of them, I can happily say that is my life.

John: In the book, you talked about a really colorful childhood in West Bottoms, Kansas City. How would you describe for those who have not had the benefit of reading your book like I have, how would you describe to our listeners the lifestyle of your childhood?

Ed: Well up until, I guess, the beginning of the second grade, I went to Cooper grade school.

John: Okay

Ed: And Mrs. Miller, or Ms. Miller, I can not remember. She was the principal. Since we were one of the well-off families in the Bottoms. I suppose I was kind of spoiled. But my companions, my schoolmates, were made up of nothing but ethnicities. Austrians, Croatians, Serbian.

John: All immigrants. Everyone was an immigrant.

Ed: Yeah. Mexican.

John: Right

Ed: We were segregated so there we no blacks in our school but we had Mexicans and we had the middle Europeans.

John: Got it.

Ed: Eastern Europeans.

John: And you yourself were Orthodox Jewish

Ed: And I myself was a Jew.

John. Right.

Ed: From birth, I was made to see that I am a minority.

John: A minority, even among those other immigrants, the melting pot that you grew up in?

Ed: Yeah

John: Really? Wow.

Ed: Oh yeah. There were no other Jews.

John: Right.

Ed: I mean a block away from my dad’s junkyard was the catholic church.

John: Got it.

Ed: I used to see this troubled old priest and I would be afraid of him. I had no idea what he might do to me.

John: It was fear. So part of being a minority, part of your mindset, and your emotional status at that point was fear.

Ed: Well I was a nothing. I was a nobody. I was the youngest of five kids.

John: Right.

Ed: My daddy was a strict, orthodox Jew, and my mama was a beautiful, lovely plump baby in mama. Needless to say, the junkyard was a crush and a packing house.

John: Right.

Ed: I saw nothing but blood and guts all day.

John: Right.

Ed: I am still looking for myself.

John: Yes but you are the last, if I read this right in the book, you had a bunch of older siblings. Like you just said, you were the youngest of five but now you are the last surviving. What are some of your favorite memories and lessons learned from your older siblings that will stay with you forever?

Ed: Well no matter how much I would have felt when my six-year older brother would pick on me and I would be his patsy. I felt that my sisters were the most beautiful in the land and lovely and liberal. My brothers were the toughest, physically, and mentally who could squeeze six pennies out of a nickel.

John: You know, you are known, we are going to get into later on, how you have used your platform for your activism, and for the impacts that you have made but right now, I want to get into the transition from West Bottoms Kansas to California. When was the turn in your life? For our listeners out there, that you were going to become an actor not to stay in the junk business. As it shows in the book, your family business is still going out in Kansas, it is still in business. So you could have stayed very well and probably stayed in that business if that is what you are dream was, if that was your goal.

Ed: Well it was a wonderful business, an adventurous business. I liked it. If I got into any business, I would have got into that one but I got snared by the acting bug and they lost me forever. My brother and my father both extended their desire to have me come into the business. They were generous in that respect.

John: That is great.

Ed: But I had other visions.

John: Right.

Ed: Those visions took place. I did a radio in high school. I love the radio. I grew from radio. I became an actor because of radio. I concentrated very much on voice in those early years. That is how you made radio. Then we had a local drama show on the local station. We would write scripts and we would produce them. We would act in them and do the music for them. All of that crap.

John: Got it.

Ed: I loved that. I loved it but that was it, you know. In Kansas City, Kansas you did not think of acting as a career.

John: Right.

Ed: That is for big-time folks. Though I went on to the University of Chicago and I thought vaguely of getting into Political Science because I love politics. You had to take required courses from testing, that determine what you had to take. I had about the average. I had about 12 courses I had to take as a high school graduate. So I began and we lived in the Burton-Judson Courts. Very gothic, pre-historic court dormitories that bordered the midway. They were beautiful. I do not know where the girls lived. I never found that out. I should have found that out. I was a slow maturer.

John: Right.

Ed: So I lived in Vincent house and not too long after the year began, somebody, one of the other houses decided to, tried to create a closed-circuit radio show. They start to put on Richard the second as the first dramatic attempt. My roommate was involved in the theater group. I said, “Well, I did a little radio acting in high school. Do you got a read for this radio show?” He threw out it all on me to read. I said, “Okay.” Because he thought of himself as the greatest [inaudible]. This is a farmer boy from Kansas City who would go audition for him. So I sort of went into the room and he sat at the other on his plump ass. I read some Walt Whitman to him. I did not realize it at that time, everybody regarded Whitman as a very difficult poet to read. A brilliant poet, but a difficult one. So I read him Whitman and his jaw fell open. He said, “Where did you learn to read like that?” And I kind of grunted, “I do not know. I do not know.” And he said, “Oh that is good, by all means, read for it.”So I ended up doing the Duke of York. I have never done a Shakespeare but I did the Duke of York and Richard the second. Then time went on, spring came. He came bustling home from school one day. He said, “Listen, the theater group is going to do for the summer show. T.S. Eliot’s, Murder In The Cathedral. You can do any of the roles in it, go check the book out, read for it.” So I checked the book out but I do not think I have read it. I took my girlfriend or I thought to be my girlfriend, to the tryouts and then I read. Once again, I wowed them and they came back and said, “Okay.” They gave me a whole bunch of roles to look over. Finally, I told them why I was going home for a couple of weeks before I started summer school. I said, “Hey make up your mind, what do you want me to do?” So they were kind of between here and there. People were saying yes and no. So they said just to read for Thomas and the fourth tempter. So I did and I ended up doing it two out of the three nights as the show played. It sank me into the theater. Never to be dislodged. I had an epiphany.

John: That is what you are going to do for a living.

Ed: Yes.

John: Lou Grant, growing up, I had never missed an episode. You were, that literally put you on the map, that role for the general population.

Ed: Uh-hmm.

John: You played a journalist. You know, I know, I have heard you speak before many many times. Where do you think we are, comparatively speaking to the era that you played Lou Grant and the mindset and the role of journalism then compared to where we are today in the world of journalism?

Ed: Well I guess the simplest way to say it is that the poor are only blessed in the eyes of God.

John: Hmm.

Ed: I would say as far as professions go

John: Yes.

Ed: Journalists are only precious in the eyes of God. I was a feature page editor on our high school paper and one day, I am at my desk and Mr. Corporon walked by and he looked at me and you know, TU is forty miles away. MU was a hundred and some miles away

John: Right

Ed: Both are good journalism schools.

John: Right.

Ed: He walked by me and he said, “You thinking of journalism as a career?” I said, “Yeah, I was.” I certainly was. He said, “I would not.” I said, “Why not?” “Because you can not make a living?” And it struck me. What is what I want to do, marry, and have a child? The man was saying “Go away, go away.” He was a journalism professor at the high school.

John: Right.

Ed: His job was taken cared of.

John: Right.

Ed: But he was not a practicing journalist.

John: Right.

Ed: I have seen since then, I have seen newspapers close. Fight to exist, fight to exist, be sponsored. To resist being a right-wing dominated newspaper was difficult. So I have always subscribed to the New York Times. I see even there that, with the pandemic, etcetera.

John: Yeah.

Ed: That they have put out local money trying to keep the readership with lots of color, lots of specialties, lots a, lots a, lots a. So even the New York Times is played and bewitched, bothered, and bewildered.

John: The grey lady, you are saying, have seen better days.

Ed: Yes. That is a god damn shame.

John: Your career is fascinating to me. Now that I am older, when I was a young little boy, sixty-one or sixty-two or sixty-three were sort of the time people are supposed to retire and you are one of these unbelievable leaders of your profession and your craft and your art, as there are others in other professions. Warren Buffet being one, and so many others that stay in and actually get better as they evolve and age with not only grace but with just such- It is just fascinating to watch your career. You are now what, ninety years old? And you are still working and seemingly enjoying it and having very relevant roles. I know I have not seen this show but I know Rosario Dawson is on the show Briarpatch which you are on and you are a newspaper publisher. Can you share a little bit about that role and evolving, talking a little bit about our old norms of retirement and why you just kept going and not only going, but like running. You did not walk, you did not crawl, sixty to ninety, you were running.

Ed: Well, besides loving to work and loving the art of acting of whatever you want to call it.

John: Yeah

Ed: It pays. It is a job.

John: Right.

Ed: I am ninety, yes but I am working now to make a living.

John: Right.

Ed: I did not create a good pitfall of money to live on in my old age. I know that most actors do unless they are mechanical or physical geniuses.

John: Right.

Ed: I did not. I should have gone on my daddy’s junk business and I would have learned but I did not.

John: Besides working and staying in so many- I mean, I have seen you and I have enjoyed you personally, Fort Apache the Bronx, JFK, Elf and so many others including broadway. Besides, working for a living?

Ed: Where are you located?

John: I am located in Fresno, California but I grew up in New York City in New York.

Ed: Yes. Well, I found New York to be very unhospitable to me as an actor.

John: Really?

Ed: Yes.

John: Why is that?

Ed: I got my start in New York, of course.

John: Right.

Ed: When I left Chicago, I went to New York and put six years into New York and been swept in an opera half of that time. I just found that New York critics did not care for me. You will have to put some knuckles on their head.

John: Do you still enjoy, is there still the light and joy when you get sent and your agent gets sent new scripts whether it would be for film or for tv? Is it fun opening up the package and seeing what they are sending your way and what possibilities are still out there?

Ed: Yes but at the age of ninety. I do not leap tall buildings anymore.

John: I want to change this topic. From your art and your craft, I want to talk about using your platform that you have honed and developed over all these years of success for making an impact. You are known and I have known you and I am just delighted in watching you, you have become a dedicated activist over the years. Can you share what are some of the worthiest causes you have put your heart, your soul, your resources, your brains behind, and why you chose some of those?

Ed: Well, I should be ashamed because if I was such a god damn activist, why did not I go out there with a placard saying, ‘Black lives matter.’ I worked with blacks all my life. When I worked on the assembly line and steel mills, I worked with blacks, [inaudible] by far, as much as that more so than…

John: You were in Roots!

Ed: Yes. I took Roots because I thought “Well hell.” Because of my innate prejudice in my life, I figured “Well, hell they will not get any white actors to do these jobs. So I must throw myself on the funeral pyre and let them do what they will because I have to serve on this noble cause.” White actors were eager to break each other’s legs to be part of it. That is how badly I misjudged white actors.

John: Wow.

Ed: I was not the only black lover in town by far and if I had used the basis of the blacks I had worked with all my life, in the steel mill, in the auto plants, they would have been numero uno, as far as I am concerned.

John: I saw a picture of you in your book which again I love and for all the listeners out there who have just joined us, we have got legendary actor Ed Asner on with us today. He is so generous with his time. I have read his book. I highly recommend you to read it as well. It is called Son of a Junkman. It is of course available at Barnes and Noble and other great bookstores and on Amazon.com. In this great book, I saw a photo of you with Muhammad Ali and Fidel Castro. Can you share a little bit about what that was like meeting two iconic worldwide figures? And what your thoughts were back then and what your thoughts are now on what they represented to you?

Ed: Well, I was invited to go to Cuba on behalf of Bob Schwartz who headed a charitable group which provided pharmaceuticals to Cuba that they could not get on the open market.

John: Got it.

Ed: Donations, etcetera, and Bob Schwartz is a saint. He fought for Cuba. They should have a statue of him in Havana. I was asked to go, offered to go. Bob was not going so I was given the opportunity to go as a reward for being a letter writer for medical aids for Cuba. I eagerly accepted and so did Muhammad Ali and his wife Lonnie. We went together and it was a great eye-opener for me because to find someone who is so truly adored by everybody, that was Muhammad. God almighty. The kids just automatically fell in love with him. It was quite an experience. Castro really did not have much time to give you the ‘how do you do.’ But you know, he was busy with Ali. Ali was the [inaudible].

John: -the main event. He was the main event, maybe.

Ed: Yeah. We went everywhere. I can remember that I ran into a guy who I had worked for NBC news I think. I do not know how true this story is, but I will you because it is a good story.

John: Yes.

Ed: He said that he had gone to Cuba in the early days somewhere in there. I think he had gone to Harvard or Yale, I forgot which one, whichever one that Castro went to.

John: I think Harvard.

Ed: Harvard, yes. He mentioned the guy that Castro used to end up in a pub with. In a, Where is Harvard again?

John: In Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Ed: Cambridge, yes.

John: Right.

Ed: He mentioned the guy to Castro and Castro did not say anything. That was in the morning. Then at noon, he brought it up again and Castro still did not say anything. In the evening, going to dinner again and he mentioned the guy again. This time Castro just [inaudible] and talked a great deal about this guy blah blah blah blah. This fellow from NBC was quite puzzled by this. So he turned to, I guess an American agent or a Cuban agent and said “How come, how come?” and he says “You do not know huh.” He said, “They are doubles.” The first guy was a double for Castro. The second guy was double for Castro.

John: No.

Ed: And finally at dinner time, he met the real Castro.

John: Wow.

Ed: You know, who knows?

John: That is a great story. You know, just like Rosario Dawson, you are passionate about the environment also. What are some of your causes? I know one of your causes I have read about in the book is autism and I am happy if you want to share a little bit about that. Also, about the environment, I would love to know because you have done so much. This is an open discussion for you to share where you felt you have made some great choices in using your platform to make an important and lasting impact on the world that we live in.

Ed: It is hard to follow that introduction.

John: Let us just talk about things you care about and why you work on things you care about outside of that.

Ed: So I think anything about animals and land is for me. The Trump passage of depredation on our parklands, on our forest lands, is a disgrace. Ignoring of global warming is a disgrace.

John: Right.

Ed: The fact that the barrier reefs have been consumed right and left. This affects all of our lives, humanity’s lives. I mean if you care about humanity and I am not sure if we should.

John: Right.

Ed: You should take care of the barrier reef.

John: Right.

Ed: Because it is all part of our protection. When I read that before the election, Trump’s sons went on a killing expedition to Africa. They got a [inaudible] or maybe an elephant or two, who the hell knows, I soured on them from that point on. I now see that their father is the President, it is like father like son. They are all killers. Enough of that. I fought for Cuba. I fought for a less autocratic rule in El Salvador that was my first plunge into the world affairs followed by Nicaragua and I was sorry about that one because the people I fought for Nicaragua turned out to be schmucks.

John: What year was that? Who do you fight for back then? Who were you working with?

Ed: The Sandinistas

John: Oh the Sandinistas. Okay. Got it. Okay.

Ed: It turned out to be worst. I mean they were gold too. There were good Sandinistas who are gold like the catholic fathers, the Jesuits who were killed by the reigning administration in El Salvador. I can not remember the names now, unfortunately.

John: That is okay. You know we live in confusing times from so many and people are really, there is a lot of confusion out there. Not that other times, there was not confusion and opposing opinions to “Should we be in this war, should we not be?” But the war that we have on-going right now against the COVID 19 virus and the civil war in America, what seems to be a civil war in America with regards to understanding how to make it a better and a more fair and just society for all of us. You have had so much life and experience in you. You are a war veteran. You have done so much in your craft and your career but also done so much in politics, are you hopeful for where we are going? Or are you less hopeful for where we are going right now?

Ed: I am generally a negative, sour person but I must say that with the mobile activity that America has undergone, people moving to Atlanta, people moving to South Carolina, North Carolina…

John: Right.

Ed: Even with Mitch McConnell being a senator from Kentucky is it?

John: I believe so. Yes.

Ed: Amazingly enough did not join the confederacy but somehow, as embodied by him, demonstrates a lot of the habits and traits of the old south. But I think this mobility of America, the transplantation of the people everywhere and the capability of turning red station to blue. I think when this began about a year ago, let us say, I was thinking the civil war is still going on. It is still happening. It is still a possibility blah blah blah but when I look at America now, I see that transitions are taking place at the old south, is somehow being graded over or replaced or transplanted. Going through a transplant, yeah. I think there is a possibility that we could find a common ground. The black lives matter has given an enormous boost in recreating this outpouring in the south. I think if we give it enough time, we will not have to worry about the Coup Clutz Clan or the American Nazi party and this one and that one.

John: Other radical groups. Extremists.

Ed: I think we will have a majority of good middle-class people. [inaudible]

John: Beside legendary actor and dedicated activist and the son of a junkman, you are ninety and you are still doing it. Now, I am almost sixty years old so I am so happy now that sixty-one and sixty-two is not retirement anymore and I am so happy that there is people like you out there, can you just share, before we sign off and say goodbye for today to our listeners, can you share some of your wisdom on just living a long and productive life that really is relevant. That is what you have done, a relevant, long, and productive life.

Ed: I noticed when I took any job that came along that paid the bills. I was not a very selective creature. You can call me a whore but at the same time I created a record in terms of the number of jobs posted.

John: Right.

Ed: Which was enjoyable. Call me a journeyman actor. I will be happy to rest on that. Let the others go to hell.

John: You know what, that might be the best place to end. I just want to say thank you from all of us here in the United States that have gotten the chance to enjoy your great work. Of course, it has been seen around the world but growing up in New York City, a little boy in Queens New York, also from an immigrant family and seeing your great success and following your career, it is beyond an honor to have you on our podcast today. It was wonderful reading your book. For our listeners out there, please buy Son of a Junkman. It is in Barnes and Noble and other great bookstores and on Amazon.com. He is a legendary actor and dedicated activist Ed Asner, I am so grateful for you joining us today on the Impact podcast.

Ed: I kiss you.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy. It is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose an outdated electronic hardware device, please visit eridirect.com.

Welcome to another edition of the impact podcast. I am John Shegerian, and I am so excited to have with us today, Ryan Hickman and his dad Damion Hickman. Welcome to impact, guys.

Damion Hickman: Thank you.

Ryan Hickman: Thanks.

John: You know, Ryan, it is not every day that I get to interview people like you who are as young as you and already been on television, in a major television show with a major television star like Ellen DeGeneres. Can you take us back to why you were invited on Ellen? When you were invited on Ellen and how did that whole thing go?

Ryan: Well, I do not really remember that much what happened, but I just think Ellen saw my story just from the internet and she wanted me on her show and I just think that that is pretty cool that she want me on her show.

John: Do you have fun?

Ryan: Mmm, I have lots of fun.

John: Well, it is. Okay, so let us then get to the story. You are humble to just pass over like that. What story did she hear about that prompted her to have you on the show? What did you do? What had you done and created that made her want to have you on the show?

Ryan: I think that was when I hit ten thousand dollars recycled, right?

Damion: Yes, Ryan’s story went viral in December of 2016 and we had done some videos on Facebook and in a way ended up being about two hundred million views of people watching it.

John: Oh my gosh!

Damion: Yes, it was kind of fun. I mean, you do not really expect things to go viral or I mean kind of be fun if it does, but then when it happens at least for us, I do not know if we were that well prepared. But Ryan got an onslaught of phone calls and emails. He was getting about five thousand emails a day and the phone calls were just crazy. It was like ABC News, the Today Show, Good Morning America, Ellen Show, like urgent back-to-back-to-back about[?] and so we agreed to do the Ellen show and it was pretty cool. Ryan got us on dressing room.

John: Whoa!

Damion: It was pretty cool, huh?

John: I love it. How did it go on the set? What did they give you?

Ryan: She gave me a mini car to drive around and she gave me a big ten thousand dollar check.

John: Holy toledo!

Ryan: The check is probably, you cannot see my hand like–

John: Do you still have a copy of it? Do you still have the check in your house?

Ryan: Uh-uh.

John: Where is it?

Ryan: It is on my wall.

John: It is on your wall, your bedroom?

Ryan: Yes.

John: That is a great inspiration. Now, just for our listeners out there. We have got Ryan Hickman and his dad Damion on with us today. They are going to tell their journey and their story and to find their great company, you can go to ryansrecycling.com. Ryan, where else can they find you on social media, which is so important nowadays?

Ryan: @ryansrecycling on Instagram, Facebook and do not forget Twitter.

John: There you go. There it is for our listeners out there that want to find Ryan and his great work and help him get fought[?] move his generation in his mission forward. Now, for our listeners out there, this is how humble Ryan is, you know, I do not know if I– come on, the impact podcast, if I had won all these awards, listen to these awards that young Ryan has one, the Barron Prize young hero honoree. The Paradigm Challenge award, the IBWA Recycling Champion award, the Sand Cloud Ambassador.

Ryan, we can take this whole show, I got like 20 things on this list here; Reader’s Digest top kids of the decade changing the world list. I mean, Good Housekeeping 40 kids who changed the world list. You are like– you had won more awards than Michael Jordan, how does it feel?

Ryan: It feels good. It makes me feel special.

John: That is so great. I mean that is just– I mean. Do you have brothers and sisters?

Ryan: No. Only me.

John: It is only you, where[?] you are.

Ryan: Only child.

John: My gosh! Because I feel, I would feel sorry. If I was your brother or sister. I do not know how I would be able to– I do not know how I could[?] measure[?] up to you. But that is just incredible. Okay, so you went on Ellen, she gives you the big check, so what were you recycling? What items were you recycling that was the core of your business?

Ryan: I was recycling cans, bottles, and glass.

John: That is what you still do at Ryan’s recycling?

Ryan: Yes.

John: Cans, bottles, and glass, and where do you recycle them from? How do you collect them? What is your business model? How do you best collect these items?

Ryan: People find out about me, they start saving the cans, when they have enough they call us. We come to pick them up, bring them home or we had to look for a recycling center. We bring it home, sort it, then we dragged all the way up to OC recycling in Santa Ana.

John: Wow! Is business growing since Ellen? Do you get more and more people requesting pickups? Is that growing year over year?

Ryan: Yes. Before I was on Ellen, I have less than a hundred customers, right?

Damion: Yes, I think so.

Ryan: Maybe like a hundred. Now, about five hundred.

John: You have about five hundred clients?

Ryan: Uh-mm.

John: I mean, I think I have got to bring you to my company and teach sales to my sales people. I do not have five hundred clients. You have five hundred clients, that is incredible. Now, Damion, what is the radius of how far you guys go to pick up these items? I know you live in Southern California. Is it five miles from your house? Is it ten miles? What is the longest you guys have to travel?

Damion: You know, we live in the bottom of Orange County so we pretty much go all of Orange County. I would say it is probably a 40-mile radius.

John: 40-mile radius?

Damion: Yeah, and you know, I mean almost of the majority of Ryan’s customers are within a 5-mile radius from where we live. But–

Ryan: Some on Tustin Santa Ana.

Damion: But, you know, we do go, we pick up farther and we try to group them together. So it is a little more convenient for us. So we are not, you know, spending everything in gas, money.

John: That is great. Is it once a week you guys go out on the journey or is it twice a week?

Damion: We go pretty much every Saturday, but you know, to be honest even with the whole COVID stuff going on lately, people are still recycling and they have been holding it for longer. Now, we will go to somebody’s house that normally has like one garbage bag or two and you know, they got six. It has actually been increased recycling rates. So we are happy people are still recycling–

Ryan: Because everybody is home. They are drinking more stuff, it is like at the office one is throwing it away. At home, they were saving it for me.

Damion: So it has been pretty good keeping us pretty busy and we have been going to the recycling center two or three times a week last two months’ time. So, pretty busy.

Ryan: I think yes. Yes, that seems about right.

John: Wow! That is fascinating. You know, people constantly want to know– that is a great point that you both made about this whole COVID-19 tragedy, so you are saying– because as Ryan just said people are more home they are drinking more things at home, and like Dad said when from a couple of bags to maybe six bags or five bags. So your recycling business specifically is booming since this– wow. So you have taken– [inaudible]. He has given the hallelujah sign here for our listeners who get it hard[?]. I cannot see it, but it is awesome. I mean– that is great. People have not forgotten the importance of the environment and taking care of the planet during even what is a tragic and very difficult period, to say the least, this COVID-19 period, you are saying they are still thinking about the planet, still thinking about being good stewards and environmentalist and you are still getting a lot of product if not more than ever before?

Damion: Yeah, I think so.

Ryan: Uh-huh.

John: That is awesome.

Damion: The pretty inspirational for our whole family is the amount of messages and emails and stuff that Ryan gets on a daily basis from social media and stuff. He gets hundreds of emails and messages from all over the world every day. Other countries seeing videos of him or seeing him on TV or stuff recycling. It is crazy, the amount of messages that he gets from people saying that they recycle now because they saw him do it and I mean we are talking Pakistan, India, Africa and I mean everywhere.

John: So you have friends all over the world, Ryan?

Damion: I should say, even though they are not recycling directly with Ryan? He is impacted[?]. You know, recycling in India, for example.

John: Well, honestly, Damion, that is why I saw Ryan’s story and said, that is why we want to have them on because your story is making an impact. It is making an impact not only on your community within a 40-mile radius like just say where you guys live. But it is worldwide because of social media, now the information being democratized you are making an impact around the world.

Damion: Yep.

Ryan: Uh-huh.

John: Wow! Incredible. Wait a second, Ryan what grade are you in, by the way? I just want to know.

Ryan: Fifth. I am going to go into sixth [inaudible] two weeks for me.

John: In two weeks?

Ryan: Some reason[?] about two weeks. So it speeds[?] in sixth grade soon.

John: Wow, so fifth grade you finished during this coronavirus period. You finish fifth grade at home on home studies, I take it? How do you like that?

Ryan: Good. I like my mom being my teacher.

John: Mom is a teacher?

Ryan: She is the best teacher ever.

John: Your mon is the best teacher ever.

Ryan: Uh-mm.

John: You know, I have some employees that tell me that when they go home, their kids tell them that they need to be better teachers. So that is nice to hear that mom is a great teacher, the best teacher ever.

Ryan: Uh-mm, same with dad.

John: Dad is a great teacher too, right?

Ryan: Uh-huh.

John: Wait a second. Now, I want understand where this came from. You know, it is always fun Ryan learning about people’s backgrounds. Dad is from Colorado, you grew up in Orange County. So was dad’s family or mom’s family environmentalist before? Is that how you got the bug to be such a–, you know, to be our Greta Thunberg of the United States? That is really what you are. I mean, how did you get that bug? Where did you get that bug from? Was it in your DNA or did you read a book on recycling? How did this happen?

Ryan: Well, this dude right here, my dad, he took me to the local recycling center when I was three with two bags for recycling. I just loved it at the center. It was so fun. I just wanted to keep recycling, and recycling, and recycling.

John: You are the king of recycling. What business you on, Damion?

Damion: I am a graphic designer. I am lucky that I am self-employed. So, I have a lot of flexibility in my schedule to help Ryan do some of the stuff.

John: That is great.

Damion: We both are lucky to have that scenario.

John: Right. This is a great partnership, then huh. So Ryan, you are the president of Ryan’s recycling, right?

Ryan: Yes.

John: Does mom work at Ryan’s recycling also besides being your professor and teacher?

Ryan: Sometimes she is more of my– she does my laundry, helped make my bed, helps do the dishes.

John: So she helps take care of the president?

Ryan: She helps take care of Ryan’s recycling.

John: Okay. Got it. That makes sense. Since you are Ryan’s recycling, she is helping taking care of you. I got it. All right. We got the picture here. So you recycle bottles and cans primarily, right?

Ryan: and glass.

John: and glass. When you say glass, what do you mean by glass? Outside the bottles?

Ryan: Beer bottles, like soda glass bottles.

John: Okay. So anything that people drink liquid at them. A beer–

Ryan: Wine bottles,

John: Wine bottles too. Wow!

Ryan: I even recycle some jars.

John: Some jars?

Ryan: Uh-huh. Glass jars.

John: Got you. Remind me who gets all the– when you are finished collecting and you are dropping off to the recycler now, who is getting all those materials?

Ryan: OC recycling.

John: Who is the owner of OC recycling that you deal with?

Ryan: Well, he has the same name as me, Ryan.

John: He is off. So this is a whole Ryan conspiracy in recycling. Recycling starts with an R and two Ryans start with an R. I see how this is going here. This is a whole R thing that is, I see how this is. Wow! Okay, and for our listeners who just joined us. We are so excited to have with us today, Ryan Hickman and his father Damion Hickman. You can find their great work and you could message them either at their website, ryansrecycling.com or Ryan tell our listeners where they can find you on social media.

Ryan: Instagram, Facebook and do not forget Twitter @ryansrecycling.

John: So, Ryan you are 10 years old?

Ryan: Yes.

John: I always like asking people that are much younger than me. What is your favorite brand or flavor? Let us say in social media, do you like Instagram the most, Facebook the most, Twiter the most? What do you like communicating with all of your followers or inspired by you the most?

Ryan: Well, we do not do a lot of Twitter but we do some Twitter. So Twitter is not really my favorite.

John: Okay.

Ryan: I think either Instagram or Facebook.

John: Okay. Well, I am going to start following you today. After the show, I am going to start following you on Instagram.

Ryan: Alright.

John: I will be looking out for you there. Okay?

Ryan: Thanks.

John: Sure, of course. So dad is a graphic designer. I worked with graphic designers my whole life, you know, I grew up in the printing business. My dad was a printer. So I work out to work with designers my whole life. So I understand dad has designed some very cool T-shirts for your website on ryansrecycling.com. Is this true?

Ryan: Uh-huh. I do not have any on right now. I am actually on one of my dad’s shoes[?] design, but I would be wearing one of mine. It says Ryan’s recycling on it, and with crumpled up can on it.

Damion: I think you just[?] got[?] a website.

Ryan: If you guys go to my website at www. ryansrecycling.com you can find my shirts and my hats there.

John: Very cool. So talk about your shirts and your hats, and I am going to buy some today. I am buying some today. When we are done with this podcast, I am buying some. So tell me what happens with the proceeds when you buy T-shirts and hats from Ryan’s recycling.

Ryan: Well, all the money goes to the Pacific Marine Mammal Center in Laguna Beach, California.

John: What is that?

Ryan: They rescue seals and sea lions, elephant seals, harbor seals, northern fur seals that are sick or injured, and keep them till the battle[?].

John: How did you choose that organization? You could give your money anywhere. I mean, some people just keep the money. How did you decide: a) to donate it, and b) why did you choose that organization? I am fascinated by that.

Ryan: I do not quite remember when, I am pretty sure it is because I just like the organization and I just wanted to donate, though.

John: Wow!

Ryan: But then I just kept donating and donating.

John: So on any given week, like give me a number, how many T-shirts and hats you sell on an average week? You do not have to tell me your biggest or your smallest week. Just give me the average.

Ryan: Maybe like once a month.

Damion: No something like that.

John: Okay.

Ryan: Maybe like three times a month, maybe.

Damion: It goes in waves usually when Ryan has a TV appearance or something, we do a bunch, you know, and we had some fun things where Ryan has been on some TV shows and the whatever show he was on, you know, they bought T-shirts for everybody in the audience to help support the Marine Center. A lot of times Ryan gives speeches at schools or videos to schools and like the whole classroom, parts, or the whole classroom or whole grade will buy the T-shirts and stuff. So it is pretty fun.

John: Very cool. That is really cool Ryan. So obviously I am going to have to get– I am going to go on, I am going to– yeah, is it only one type of T-shirt or is it one design or many designs.

Ryan: There are kids, men’s, ladies. [Inaudible]

Damion: So Ryan, I think we are all out[?] of white.

Ryan: Yes.

Damion: So Ryan has his normal branding, his logos, shirts, and hats. We also have a partnership for Ryan with a company called Sand Cloud. We have known them for a number of years there in San Diego. They make very environmentally friendly Beach-type products, like a lot of T-shirts, beach towels, blah blah, and really great people. Ryan got a partnership with them where we came up with a shirt. We called it “make the sea trash free”. Proceeds of that particular shirt go to help a couple of different organizations through them to help with ocean clean ups and those shirts are made out of recycled water bottles. So how many bottles for each? Like eight bottles per shirt, right?

Ryan: Yes. Uno, dos, tres, cuatro, cinco–

John: Is that also on your website? Those shirts as well?

Damion: Yes.

John: Great. Okay. So there is more than one design on your website.

Damion: Yes, and we got a bunch more– so yeah, we got more stuff coming.

Ryan: and there are multiple colors that–

John: What is your favorite color, Ryan?

Ryan: My favorite color is green.

John: Oh you are my kind of guy. Our motto here in our company is “green is good.” It is a pretty cool color, green is good.

Ryan: Uh-huh.

John: Wait a second now, I would assume a young man like you with all these awards here, I mean look at all these– I mean like I cannot– Ryan these take all day for me to read all these awards. I mean you are quite an incredible young man including top hundred most influential people of Orange County. I mean, my gosh! Millions of people live in Orange County. You are top one hundred influential.

Ryan: Uh-mm

John: All right, I am glad I know you now. So wait a second now, I would assume someone like you with the best teacher in the world. It is probably pulling straight A’s in school. Is that true?

Ryan: Yeah.

John: Yeah, pretty much. I figured that. Yeah after this– I mean if I was your brother or sister, I have to be prepared. I mean like you are killing it in business. You are killing it your key[?]. You are helping the environment, you are saving the seals. You have won about a hundred rewards or so and you are a straight A student. I do not know, you live another[?] for the competition, Ryan. There is just nothing left for us. What do you do? How many hours a week do you think that you spend on Ryan’s recycling beside your schoolwork and other things that you do in life? How many hours a week if you were to guess?

Ryan: It depends on how many people call us a week.

John: Okay.

Ryan: Usually about ten hours.

John: Ten hours.

Ryan: If we are going to pretty busy maybe fifteen hours.

John: That is a lot of hours for a young man. That is a lot of hours. You get emails in, people email you and they social media you and they actually call you too for pickups.

Ryan: Uh-huh, yes.

John: Wow! That is interesting. That is just so interesting. So outside of work and school, what is your funnest thing that you do? Like, are you a sports guy? You watch basketball or football or baseball or you are a video guy and do video games? What do you do for fun?

Ryan: Well, I do not play video games. I am not that much into sports, but I do collect coins.

John: What? You collect coins?

Ryan: Uh-huh, I collect coins.

John: That is so interesting. When I was a young guy, I did too. But I mean, tell me what kind of coins or like the hot coins you collect and what gets you most excited about collecting coins?

Ryan: Just getting like old coins, my three most oldest coins. Actually, no four most oldest coins, 1799 British coin.

John: Whoa. Wow!

Ryan: and 1820 US penny.

John: A copper penny from 1820.

Ryan: Uh-huh. It is about the size of a half-dollar.

John: Really?

Ryan: Uh-huh.

John: Wait a second. Have you and mom and dad ever been to the US Mint back in Washington DC? Have you been to where they make the money and seen that yet?

Damion: Yes.

Ryan: Yes.

Damion: We went to the– what is that– the treasury building.

Ryan: The printing place where they print the bills.

Damion: Yeah, we did. We went there last time Ryan had a speaking engagement in Washington DC. So we got to go to that building. It was pretty cool.

John: Wow, so okay. How was that? Was that fun?

Ryan: Yeah.

Damion: It was funner.

John: Wow, so you collect coins. So how many coins do you think right now are in your collection?

Damion: Oh boy, you know what[?].

Ryan: If I would say, I guess– I would probably say about ten thousand/fifteen thousand.

Damion: Yes you got a lot.

John: Wait a second. When you have that many coins part of your collection, I know you study coins, then do you have one like this your grand prize coin that you are trying to one day trade for collect, that you really would like to have part of your collection?

Ryan: Yes. Two coins actually. I think it is a 19– actually three coins, 1912 Liberty Head V Nickel and a 1913 Liberty Head V Nickel, those are only five known of those and then a 1909 VDB Wheat Penny. I mean 1909-S VDB. Those are somebody’s initials.

John: Okay. So–

Ryan: That is pretty rare.

John: How are you going to?– Like what do you do then? Do you email with other collectors and try to do trades or do you go to shows and you try to find them? How does this whole thing work? How do you find your next diamond, you know, like hot coin? Like a coin that you are excited about that you are trying to get. How do you find them?

Ryan: About every three months? There is a Coin Show in Long Beach, California. We usually go to it. The last one we went to I think that was in February. Yes, we went to it and we got some old coins and that is usually where I go to get my coins.

John: So it is at the convention center in Long Beach.

Ryan: Yes, Long Beach convention.

John: You go with mom and dad?

Ryan: Just this dude, my Dad.

John: Just dad, okay. There are lots of folks there that you know like you already know.

Ryan: Yes.

John: They know you and you know them?

Ryan: Uh-mm. I think we know quite a few people there.

John: Really? No kidding.

Ryan: Like six people, though.

John: You just said something interesting. So you went to the treasury where they print the bills in DC when you had a speaking event. Talk about speaking events, you know a famous comedian Jerry Seinfeld, you know who that is, right? Ever heard of him?

Ryan: No.

John: Okay, there is a famous guy named Jerry Seinfeld and he has a joke about public speaking and he said “more people are afraid of public speaking more than dying.” So in other words more people are afraid of public speaking more than they are of dying, Ryan. So do you Ryan Hickman, do you get afraid? Are you afraid of public speaking? Do you get nervous when you go to speak? or–

Ryan: No.

John: You are ready to roll?

Ryan: It is the opposite. I am more afraid of dying than speaking.

John: Well, yeah I am with you, by the way. Hey, by the way, I am with you. How about your side of that equation? I do not think Jerry Seinfeld is right for either of us. But I mean I am with you. I am more afraid of dying than speaking, it is fun.

Ryan: Yes.

John: That is the real statistic. I have looked it up. He is right. That is true statistics. So talk a little bit about– and that he used that in a joke, but he made a whole joke of the whole thing. So talk a little bit about when your public speaking whether it is five people are going on Ellen or any other television show, do you get nervous, you get excited? What do you do? What is your preparation?

Ryan: I do not really– like of course, I get excited. I do not get nervous but I get butterflies in my tummy because I am so excited. I do not get nervous at all.

John: Really?

Damion: Ryan had– when he was on The Ellen Show, that was kind of the first time that we were going to see how he did in the audience and my wife and I were sitting in the audience and are way more nervous because we do not know what he is going to say. For those of you that watch The Ellen episode, you can see it on YouTube or EllenTube or on Ryan’s site. He throws my wife under the bus and he got a really good crowd responds, and so it was– but Ryan has been a speaker at different events with around the world actually with [Inaudible] spoke at the Los Angeles Forum in front of twenty-five thousand people, so some pretty big audiences that– he kills it– I mean, he is not afraid.

Ryan: The biggest audience I have spoke in front of is twenty-five thousand people in Vancouver Canada.

John: What twenty-five thousand people? From my generation, you know, we call that– that is a rockstar crowd. You are like rock-star popular. Where was that?

Damion: Rogers Arena.

Ryan: Rogers Arena, it is a hockey stadium.

John: So you walked in on to the stage and you saw everybody out there.

Ryan: All the seats were filled.

Damian: All the seats were filled when we took him to the Forum to speak. It was pretty cool to be backstage. You can see like a lot of the artists had autograph stuff on the walls and stuff and it was pretty cool to see where the Rolling Stones signs out, you know, Guns and Roses, you know I mean it is like “wow! That is YouTube”, you know, so it is pretty cool.

John: It is pretty cool to be in that company. Those are some rock bands that your dad just mentioned that, you know, part of our generation, my generation for sure. So you are in pretty good company. Like I said, rock star status.

Damion: I will tell you at that particular event, it was pretty cool for us too because Ryan had the chance to meet a lot of celebrities that were speaking at that event and Ryan does not know who they were because he does not watch a lot of TV that they would be in. My wife and I knew who they were, but you know, he met a ton and it was really cool. We got to chitchat when Henry Winkler came up and he gave Ryan a kind of inspirational speech. I told Ryan “hey”, you know Ryan was eight at the time and I had to tell Ryan when I was eight years old that guy was, [Inaudible] the coolest guy on TV. I have a lunch box with that guy, and Ryan is like what is a lunch box, you know. It has been pretty cool with some of those things and Ryan is taking over LeBron James Instagram page for a day.

John: What–?

Damion: He has got shoutouts online from tons of, you know, Chelsea Clinton and George Takei and I mean an endless list. It is pretty cool to see people all over the world, even famous people care about the environment.

John: I think you are the most famous person I have been interviewing. Because I do not know anybody else who is famous like you Ryan. That has been on television, medal of these stars, and is doing so much for the recycling movement, my gosh. Ryan as you said, you are getting messages from around the world, Pakistan, India, all around the world. You are making an impact that goes way beyond Orange County and share some words of inspiration. How do we get more Ryan Hickman’s? How do we get more young people less interested in Xbox or other other things out there and more interested in the environment or making an impact like you are making?

Ryan: Maybe everybody could just make a little or just pick up a few piece of trash. The parents could take them to look recycling center if they have one near them. The kids may think it is fun and they might want to start doing what I am doing.

John: That is awesome. So just a little baby steps first and then that can lead to bigger things in the future

Ryan: Yes. I only took two bags to the center and look at me now. I recycled almost a million cans and bottles. By December, I will be able to hit a million.

John: A million? Unbelievable. You know Ryan, there is a lot of people out there that want to do what you are doing. Is it that hard to start a business like you had started? You know, you are killing the site[?]. You are the president, you run this business with your dad and mom has helped, but I mean being an entrepreneur, what do you feel about that?

Ryan: I feel it is very cool being in my own– not my own, an entrepreneur.

John: Do you like that.

Ryan: Uh-mm. If you ask what is good to be having my own business.

John: That is the American dream. You know, I know this could change, you are still very young and this changes all the time for a lot of young people. But if I were to ask you today when you are 25, when you get out of college or grad school or whatever you do, what is your goal? What do you want to do as an adult? Do you have any thoughts yet, or are you too young to think about that, yet? In terms of what profession you want to go into later on in life? You just want to keep growing Ryan’s recycling and become the largest recycling mogul in the world in and take over?

Ryan: Yes.

John: That is the goal?

Ryan: Yes. You said it.

John: That is a good goal, by the way.

Ryan: Ryan’s recycling.

John: That is a great goal. Do you have any last thoughts before we have to sign off for today or do you have any other things you want to promote or any special thoughts that you want to share with our listeners?

Damion: He does have– we are going to be launching within the next couple of months. Ryan’s got a nonprofit organization that we are launching called project 3R, and it will be geared towards recycling awareness and education worldwide. Like I said earlier with all the emails that Ryan gets from around the world, a lot of places do not have a recycling center and so us being able to provide them with information and Ryan being kind of the face of that. Hopefully, get recycling centers established and just the ability to help other countries and other cities make recycling a part of their mainstream activities.

John: How does that nonprofit will get funded? Would it be from the proceeds from the hats and T-shirts or some other mechanism, Damion?

Damion: It will not be from the hats and T-shirts. We have got a lot of support organizations that are ready to help fund it, you know Ryan’s part of his speaking engagement monthly, and part of different funding avenues will all go into that. It is going to be kind of a hit miss. You know, it is kind of a new thing for us. So we are going to be kind of learning as we go along too but we are going to start out a little small and then hopefully grow it.

John: Awesome. Well, I want you to come back on the show Damion and Ryan and talk about once you launch that how it is doing and we could promote that further once it is launched and you could give us an update once you hit the million bottles and cans you could give us an update on hitting that goal, and just generally just check-in. How is that sound?

Ryan: Yes, that sounds good.

John: We love to have you back. Also, as I promised before we went on the air, once we get through and beyond on the safer on the other side of this coronavirus tragedy that we are all living through. I would love to invite you and your mom and your dad to come up to our recycling facility here in Fresno and be our guest so you could see the largest electronic waste recycling plant in the world.

Ryan: Okay.

Damion: That sounds cool.

John: So then when I want to retire, you could take over this business and you could run this under the Ryan’s recycling business and you can basically control the recycling in the United States at that point. How is that sound?

Ryan: Good.

John: Well, I am gonna buy some hats and T-shirts today and for our listeners to find Ryan, to find Damion, to find all the great and important work that they are doing, making an impact and making the world a better place, you could go to ryansrecycling.com. Buy some hats, buy some T-shirts. Ryan where else can they find you?

Ryan: Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @ryansrecycling.

John: Ryan and Damion, it has been an absolute pleasure having you both on today. You are both inspirational. You are making an important impact. I cannot wait to have you back on the show again and continued health and success and I cannot wait to meet you in person. Good luck.

Ryan: Thanks.

Damion: Yeah. Thank you so much.

Ryan: Bye.