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John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast we’re so excited to have with us today. Back again, back on the impact podcast, six years later, Mathy Stanislaus. He’s the interim director of the Global Battery Alliance, World Economic Forum. Welcome back now to impact podcast, Mathy.

Mathy Stanislaus: Thanks, John. Well, I look forward to this conversation.

John: And so do I, batteries are such a hot topic. But last time we spoke with you, you were working for the Obama administration over the EPA. And for our listeners who haven’t heard that edition of our broadcast. Tell them a little bit about your background leading up to Obama and all your great environmental work. And now in this very important role as the interim director of the global battery Alliance.

Mathy: Yes, sure. My background by training, I’m a chemical engineer and environmental lawyer. Before I joined the Obama administration, I did a lot of work to try to align social justice with business drivers and local government. I really believe that if you want to have the transformation in the globe, really requires that alignment, I used to lead a nonprofit in New York City to bring real estate finance community-based organizations to really build and redevelop communities through a community-based planning program. I took that with me, to the Obama administration about to scale that up, nationally, and internationally, we’ll try to link up, you know, the areas of the community-based building, the areas of climate change, restoration, the areas of energy transformation, but do it in a way that, you know, looks at, you know, the policy as a, as a floor, then building upon the hub kind of spur kind of this innovation that brings the community of business and government together.

You know, from there, I did a little bit of work with the World Economic Forum, and I led the work with the G7 on behalf of the US government, looking at the role of supply chains, looking at a particular focus on the auto sector, and how aligning government and the private sector and a supply chain can be really crucial to address climate change and materials reduction. So I’ve done a bit of work in scaling up this circular economy platform with the World Economic Forum, and I’m currently the Director of the Global Battery Alliance.

The Global Battery Alliance, I’ll give three, three of the major areas of focus. One is to really scale up batteries. so that it can reduce greenhouse gases and the transportation energy sector, which is responsible for 40% of greenhouse gases globally. And we believe we can reduce greenhouse gases by 30% of the Paris goals. Secondly, we also need to address what I call the dark underbelly of electrification doesn’t want to talk about that is so much of the key materials, cobalt, lithium, nickel, comes with it potential human rights abuses, potential environmental abuses.

So we really need to behave eyes wide open, and make sure that we focus on the fallback end. And the other major opportunity is to really provide access to electricity to communities that currently do not have access to clean energy. And we’re really calling it currently focusing on Africa. You know, if you transform from dirty diesel, to clean energy, you not only increase the public health dimension, you increase productivity, you increase educational levels. So those are three prongs of our effort.

John: That’s wonderful. And you know, yeah, I applaud you have a stellar career and doing things that really make the world a better place. You know, I love having people like you want me to do this show for a reason. It’s a mission. I don’t take any advertising dollars Mathy, but you’re the exact reason I have this show because you are making an impact. And you have a history, a career of making important impacts and making the world a better place.

So first of all, I just thank you for all the great work you did back under the Obama administration back in New York. And now with the Global Battery Alliance, this is such an important work way beyond the environment, like you said it these human rights opportunities and violation opportunities. And also figuring that out, this is a really, really big issue. And it seems as though when it comes to the circular economy, this is a growing issue. Because as we know, electronics Mathy is the fastest growing solid waste stream in the world. And now electronics, so many of the electronics we use, whether it’s our wearables, or our or basically our Eevee cars, which have become computers on wheels, have these lithium-ion batteries in them, which are full of the cobalt and nickel, the lithium-ion or what is called the Black Mass. Let’s break this down, though. This partnership that you’re heading up now is made up of 70 members can you give our listeners and our viewers a taste of who the members are and why they join this alliance?

Mathy: Sure, on the private side, everything from mining and minerals processing companies to battery and automobile and Evie companies, to some of the world’s largest tech companies. On the public side, we have a number of the UN agencies, we have a number of governments who are former members, we have the Canadian government or the Japanese government, the Democratic Republic of Congo, we’re also engaged with the European Union and, and recently, you know, we’re engaged the United States government.

John: Right.

Mathy: And equally important, you know, we have work outside of the US cause civil society organizations in the US to cause nongovernmental organization really bringing the activist the community voice to the table at a level playing field.

John: Got it. You know, and I’ve been reading about solutions now, companies that say they’re going to recycle lithium-ion batteries, such as Redwood materials, such as lifecycle up in Canada. Talk a little bit about Are you hopeful that we’re going to be able to close a circular economy in this very important part of the ESG space and be able to now do the last mile and recycle the lithium, the cobalt-nickel, what is called the maybe the last mile of the electronics, you know, chain and now repurpose these materials back into new batteries. What does this look like as you step back and you have this great Alliance now with all these various stakeholders?

Mathy: Yes. Well, you know, I’m both an advocate and a skeptic of the circular con.

John: Okay. Okay.

Mathy: I think the circular economy is a great vision. But what I find is quite weak. Is really disciplined to put in place the levers for change. That is data-driven and science-driven. So first, I think that we have to look at it from a lifecycle-based perspective looking at the older lifecycle stages and figuring out where are the greatest impact and the greatest opportunity, and not every product offers circularity offers the same kind of circularity? So for example, Evie batteries. There are huge opportunities before we talk about recycling to extend the life of batteries, and then identifying second uses of Evie batteries for energy storage.

So I think we should maximize that and provide the policy and financial inducement everything from design to disassembly, everything from addressing standards for second use everything from enabling repair and refurbishment. So one of my concerns is we skip just to recycling without maximizing the hierarchy of circularity in a really intentional way. So I think people should really focus on that. And, and I think there’s the other you know, I think the regulatory nudges or a floor is crucially important, but we also need to recognize you know, the leading businesses are suffering from the market, not recognizing that they’re leading, you know, and so we have a lot of green-washing out there, you know, so we need to have a real, more a rigorous mechanism.

So one of the things we’re working on is a data-driven mechanism, something called the Global battery passport.

John: Okay.

Mathy: Which is enabling access, and authentication, and verification of data throughout what we call the battery ecosystem, the battery value chain, you know, from mining to make sure that we are able to trace that is coming from a reliable source, not a corrupt source, a source that does not use child labor, right. And then, on greenhouse gases, and making sure we have authenticated greenhouse gases, you know, water impacts, and all of that.

So one, we want to be able to have the downstream users and the upstream users to be able to have the same standardized data so that, you know, we really can reward the best actors in the planet, and frankly, not reward those that don’t invest in the best performance is the least impact. Making sure there’s no corruption and, and child labor.

No. And, we also need to enable the market poll to provide enough information for consumers to make informed decisions. So you know, we’re in the first time in humanity, we have an ability to have data drive authentic decisions are no longer can a company downstream company say, there’s no way for us to know? Yes, there is you have to really invest in the data infrastructure. And I think similar to governments and consumers is how to create data access, protecting certain data, enabling certain data to make more rigorous informed decisions. I will just give one point of data.

One of the largest Evie companies told me that no longer this is the number one finance I told them, that we do not want to see another sustainability report from you know, we need data to speak to the truth. You know, so a number of organizations BlackRock, for example of wall saying, Listen, we don’t want your sustainability reports anymore. We want a database affirmation that helps you, it helps the community helps us make financing decisions, and helps consumers make informed decisions. So that so the data is really where people want to focus now. And that’s where the hockey puck is going. You feel in the future.

John: Yes, Mathy.

Mathy: Yes, yes, I mean, I think data, I mean, really can’t talk about sustainability. You can’t talk about responsibility. You can’t talk about leveling the playing field. without talking about as an example, we do a lot of work with the European Union commission. And as a result of all the work, their draft regulations, are recognizing our global passport, our data infrastructure to drive accountability and responsibility.

John: You know, you mentioned the dark underbelly of human rights violations. Is that still in 2021? It’s hard to believe that that’s still going on. But can you flesh that out for our viewers and our listeners and explain where that fits in in this whole, you know, in the in this story, so it’s important for that to bring light to that, because what, what we can disinfect what we put sunshine on, but we if we don’t know, we really can’t fix the problem.

Mathy: Yes, I’ll give two examples on both ends of the production chain.

John: Okay.

Mathy: One is cobalt. Cobalt is a critical ingredient. Currently, to make lithium-ion batteries, you really can’t make lithium-ion batteries without it. 70% of the sourcing comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo, you know, and depending on who you listen to, you know, a substantial percentage may be the majority is produced using children.

John: All right.

Mathy: And so, you know, it’s been widely scrutinized a number of reports by Amnesty International, Greenpeace, and a number of the downstream companies, auto companies have said, you know, we need to address this problem, you know, so this is really difficult work, you know, so, you know, child labor in the DRC, in a place that has a degree of poverty is easier said than done.

John: Right.

Mathy: You need to not just say no, you need to invest in the systems to improve the conditions in the DRC and provide alternative law, live livelihood, enable worker training to enabled adults to work, you know, it’s a whole ecosystem. So we’ve done work with creating a fund working with UNICEF to invest in job training and education, and that we’re now building this data contract to hold companies accountable for the chain of custody, you know, cobalt mined, where does it go?

Can we confirm that it’s not going to corrupt means so? So that’s the one dimension of human rights as child labor. There are a lot multiple other dimensions of human rights as indigenous rights associated with lithium that needs to be addressed. On the far another end, you know, you the global electrical, electric transformation still is going to rely on recycling at the back end, you know, and lead-acid batteries are still going to be part of our future.

So a recent study by UNICEF and a group called Pure Earth concludes that one in three children in the globe still suffers from lead poisoning. And lead poisoning relates to the development of disability, intellectual disability. And it’s most pronounced in emerging countries, we have really haphazard informal sector operations. So we recently issued a report about best practices, and we’re doing this event in India, about how can they address best practices, they address even kind of equalizing the level playing field so that you know, you can actually have this taxation scheme, which actually pushes the recycling market underground and be done by the informal sector. So I give you two examples of, you know, where human rights abuses are occurring, and the real importance of, you know, electrification is sexy. Evie is sexy, but we need to have equal attention and visibility and scrutiny by everyone. So that the hard to do stuff on both sides gets done.

John: Got it. And for our listeners, and just join us in our viewers, we have Mathy Stanislaus with us, he’s the interim director of the global battery lines, you can find Mathy on his LinkedIn at Mathy dash status loss. [inaudible] on LinkedIn or at the web forum. org backslash global dash battery dash lions backslash home. It’s a great group and an important group of 470 or so partnering companies and organizations, including companies in the value chain, the public sector, civil society, and other important issues. Mathy, why is fixing this battery issue important or crucial to achieving the Paris goals that we’ve just as you say, signed back on to?

Mathy: Yes, well, so we think well, you know, 40% 40 plus percent of the greenhouse gases are due to energy production, and transportation.

John: Okay, right.

Mathy: And the at the heart of reducing greenhouse gases, and we believe through optimization of batteries, in vehicles and in fixed storage, it can achieve 30% of the Paris goals, the transportation, and energy sector. It can do this in a number of ways.

One is optimizing batteries, the circularity of batteries as we were discussing earlier, extending the life of batteries, repurposing batteries, and recovering quality materials from batteries can reduce the cost of batteries and TVs by about 23%, which we think can increase the demand of EBS by 35%. So one of the big keys to scaling up EBS is reducing the cost of batteries.

John: Okay.

Mathy: The other area is the area of either fixed storage or I’m going to call it interim storage. And I’ll come back to it is renewable energy is intimate and source of energy at this moment, right. So basically that means that only when the wind is blowing, only when the sun is up, can you extract energy for use at the point of production, right? So the key to being able to maximize the use of renewable energy is to be able to store that energy when needed, right. The other thing that people don’t think about is unless we fix and enable storage, you will never take away the dirtiest of dirty energy production, which occurs on the hottest days of the year.

John: Right.

Mathy: So the dirty is finished facilities with the least pollution control, you know, I’ll call peaking plants, right? So those are the plants that Come on, you know, typically in the hottest sub-parts of the summer to provide the reliable energy that we demand.

John: Right.

Mathy: So, so battery storage is a key, for one maximizing the use of renewable energy, but maximizing renewable energy, you then put pressure and you eliminate, first, the dirtiest peakers, and then bringing down all of the fossil fuel generations. So battery storage, both fixed meaning fixed storage on the grid. And then what I accept, it has begun in Europe, there’s been a bit of work in China is using a battery using batteries in vehicles as an interim storage device.

So for example, the Biden administration has committed to electrification, electrification of bus fleets, and school fleets. So what the opportunity is, is that when they are not being used for transporting kids.

John: Right.

Mathy: You get connected to the grid, and then they could then be at a battery storage device. And then what can happen is there’s a whole theory of arbitrage, which means that you can, you know, grab energy that’s being produced is not being used at a low price, and then sell it out at a bigger price. So I’m working on this model with a big energy company, which would reduce the local pollution in an area, which would tie renewable energy, fixed storage, the leasing of pooled buses, which could result in a 25% reduction in the utility cost for a local municipality. So this is the possibility of when you start looking at this in a more collaborative, intentional way.

John: You know, Mathy, I love what you’re doing at the Global Battery Alliance, these are big ideas, and this is big, you’re taking on some of the biggest environmental and human rights challenges that we’ve ever had discussed on this, on this podcast in this program. How long will this take? I mean, you’re, you’re a seasoned veteran, both law expert, a chemical engineer, you have, and you have all the relationships, is this something that can be achieved in the next one or two years? Or is this a 10-year project to achieve a lot of the goals you’re aiming for? What’s your vision on that?

Mathy: Our vision is, you know, we need to, we’ve already hit the ground, we need to accelerate to hit the ground. And frankly, the US has been Mia for some obvious reasons.

So but I do think that it’s a mistake to think of it just as a regulatory issue versus a private sector issue.

John: Right. Okay.

Mathy: So we need to, yes, we need to put in place. The regulatory programs, you know, mandates we’re reducing emissions, we also need to put what I call enabling policies and enabling policies of data to reduce costs and enable innovation, we need to level the playing field, you know, so that the risk-takers who’ve done you know, the leading edge battery companies and Evie, Evie companies need to be rewarded.

You know, frankly, we need to invest significantly in the battery market in the US, you know, the recycling markets in the US. So we need to do all those things at the same time. I know it sounds, but unless we do that, you know, and I’m not going to get too provincial here, but—

John: Right.

Mathy: Currently, China dominates every segment of the value chain. They are the number one processor of the key minerals for electrification. They’re the number one manufacturer of batteries are currently they throw heavily subsidized subsidies to that Europe has now put in a multi-billion dollar investment in trying to secure battery markets by reproduction there. So I do think the US needs to get into and go really big, you know, in terms of investment.

Now, the last thing I will say but maybe not the last thing I would say okay, is that you know, we need to take the utility policies and utility infrastructure from the Dark Ages.

So, I mean, we’ve had utility policies into being able to rapidly allow battery storage into grids, being able to put smart charging into grids to enable all of this, that needs to happen. No, frankly, utilities move very slowly in utility, you know, have gone from a heavily regulated industry to I would say, MCs regulated and some privatized, but a lot of their, the legacy is still that they are, you know, quite slow to change, you know, and, and, and we have the need to have utility companies and battery companies and Evie companies and government to speak at the same table for the first time ever because they’ve never been at that table, you know, so, and this is where I think like a forward-leaning, now the government and private sector needs to come to the table in a pre-competitive way to solve these intractable problems. Because if we don’t solve the infrastructure side, if all we do is carbon pricing and regulation, now we don’t solve the infrastructure side, we will not achieve our Paris targets.

John: Do you feel that with you as the interim director of the Global Battery Alliance, and with those 70 or so members that you say come from all different, interesting backgrounds? It’s just not industry? It’s government. It’s an industry. It’s, it’s all sorts of stakeholders, and with this new battery, and with this new Biden administration, this four-year window, do you think you can accomplish this stuff in that four-year window? Now that you have everybody, you’re the leader, you’re leading this group? And you also have sort of everybody under this umbrella organization? Is that going to that with the politics being, you know, more favorable? Will that be the wind at your back to get a lot of this done and bring the United States into modern times?

Mathy: I believe so. And I don’t think we have a choice.

John: I’m with you, I mean, sound like it.

Mathy: So I do think that you know, if we, you may not see the result in four years, okay, we need to put in place, all the elements of it, you know, we need to put in place the regulatory mandates of it, we need to put in place the enabling policies, you know, data policies, financial incentives, so that can then be having to add on effect of nurturing innovation in the private sector, leveling the playing field, you know, that that will have a cascading effect. You know, what we project again if we optimize these systems, we think we could achieve the 30% reduction by 2030, right?

So we have a 2050 goal of net-zero, right. But, but we, you know, we can’t wait for 2050.

John: Right.

Mathy: To go heavy, we got to go, we got to go hard. On the policy side, on the financing side. I mean, let me just spend a moment on finance.

John: Yes.

Mathy: I think it’s crucial that the US catch up with the rest of the world on what is called blended finance, you know,, the government needs to come to the table, to de-risk pseudonym investments, de-risk, certainly, infrastructure. So. the European Union is putting multi-billions of dollars to nurture its battery bins, because there is a little bit of uncertainty, you know, in terms of infrastructure investment, in terms of investing in cell technology and cell development. So I think that direct resources, incentivized resources, maybe even reduced tax treatment is really crucial to be able to realize this opportunity, you know.

So again, mandates, nudges, blended financing, and then working with the private sector, private sector leaders, and frankly, holding the laggards accountable at the same time.

John: Right, and like you said, it’s not all policy in government, but it’s great when that’s the wind at your back. And it’s not the wind at your face anymore. So now you have that at your back. And now you got this whole great organization, you can make this stuff happen now.

Mathy: Yes. And for those who think this is us, was the world was with us and listen, you know, both in the European Union policies and the Biden policies, they all include this trade requirement around carbon, right? So what that means is it and I’ve always said that the biggest harm in the last four years was to the US business because the sending the signal that you don’t need to decarbonize that may work in the US, but listen, we’re in a global economy.

John: Right.

Mathy, You’ve set us businesses behind in terms of selling in Europe and even selling in China. So for the future, you will not be able to sell a mother the products if you don’t mean if you don’t demonstrate a certain greenhouse gas, a goal and also got it.

John: Hey for our listeners and viewers to find Mathy and his great colleagues and all the important work they’re doing please go to We forum.org backslash global dash battery dash Alliance backslash home or you can find the connect with Mathy on his LinkedIn at Mathy-Stanislaus on LinkedIn, Mathy, I’m so glad you came back on impact, to share your journey. You’re doing such important work honest too, gosh, I do this show because of great people like you, you’re not only making an impact, you’re making the world a better place.

The truth is we need to clone you. We need more of you. And, and I’m so hopeful after this discussion because you are the right person to be running the global battery Alliance and tackling these very important issues that are actually very complicated, as well.

Thank you for being a guest again, you’re always welcome back. And I wish you continued success, good health. And just thank you for all the great work you do just thank you.

Mathy: Thanks, John. And thanks for having me again. Looking forward to continuing our conversation in the future.

John: Of course.

John: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by Trajectory Energy Partners. Trajectory Energy Partners brings together landowners, electricity users, and communities to develop solar energy projects with strong local support. For more information on how trajectory is leading the solar revolution, please visit trajectoryenergy.com

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy. It is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States, and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit ERIdirect.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. This is a very special edition of the Impact Podcast. I am John Shegerian. We have got Ryan Serhant with us from Million Dollar Listing, from Big Money Energy, and Sell It Like Serhant. He is a superstar in the real estate industry. He is a superstar in the media. Welcome to the Impact Podcast, Ryan.

Ryan Serhant: Thank you so much for having me. I love your energy. It is like you have read my book or something.

John: Well, you think? Do you think I read your book? I do not know. There is so much good stuff in here I made so many markings I actually confuse myself. But, I mean, these are great books. I am just going to say it from the top of the show, first of all, I am a native New Yorker so I am the CEO of your fan club. I have loved you since the first season and I love what you are doing now in business and I love your books. For any entrepreneur out there or who wants to be an entrepreneur, these are the books to read for anyone who wants to be in sales. And by the way, we are all in sales because we are always trying to sell something, whether it is our self or a product that you have, these are the books to read. I am going to tell you right now, I am fifty-eight years old and I learned a shit ton from these books. So, Ryan, you have got it right. We are going to talk about that today.

Ryan: You look younger than me.

John: Well, I do not think so. First of all, there is no way this good-looking guy here should have ever been a hand model. Come on now. I mean, I do not even know how that even remotely happened. That is like the funniest thing ever.

Ryan: Yes. I needed to make money, man, and so in order to make money, I had to do whatever it took. If I had to use my hands then I would have to use my hands.

John: But how does a guy who is better looking than Ryan Reynolds is a hand model and not a movie star? It is ridiculous.

Ryan: I challenge that statement.

John: I do not know about that, but well, Ryan, before we get talking about both books, of course, we are here today to talk about Big Money Energy which I love, BME which you also say means Big Magnetic Energy, which we are going to talk about as well, talk a little bit about the back story, where you were in 2008 and your backstory, how you really got to where you are today. I just love our business. For our readers, our viewers, our listeners who have not seen you yet, to learn more about you through your own eyes and words.

Ryan: So I was born in Texas, I grew up outside Boston. My parents made me play every single sport known to man and take every single class ever because they wanted me to be well-rounded and try everything. I was terrible in every sport and I was okay at school, I was not great. The one thing that I actually like doing was theater, acting. I had a love for that and made little movies with my brother, I forced him to do everything. My mom was my main camera person. We had fun like that. Then I went to college, I was going to go to college for theater but my parents would not let me so went to a liberal arts school and majored in English and Theater. Then when I graduated I had money saved up from construction jobs every summer, my grandfather had died and left a few thousand dollars to each of the grandkids, and so I basically said, “Okay, I got enough money to live in New York without having to get a job for maybe a year or two.” That is what I am going to do because I would rather regret the things I did than the things I never tried and I do not want to be fifty years old saying, “Man, I wish I could have tried the acting thing because that was always my passion,” and here I am as an actuary or something, right? Just to appease my parents, I did take the LSAT to go to law school. I took it twice. I bombed it both times and I really did try, I really did study. It was just really, really, really hard.

John: Right.

Ryan: So I went to New York, tried to become an actor, got onto a soap opera pretty quickly. They killed me off, also quickly. I hand-modeled and that paid me the most actually. I held phones for AT&T. I held Nespresso capsules. I held phones. I was a stand-in for athletes’ hands. It was a very strange time in my life and then I basically just ran out of money, and it was, go home, move home, which at that point had become Colorado, refigure out life, and then I guess get another job or figure out a way to stay in New York. And so that is what I did. I had a friend who said, “Do not become a bartender or waiter or get a temp job. Get your real estate license,” and this was like this spring and summer of 2008.

John: Okay.

Ryan: He said, “Get your real estate license. It is the greatest thing in the world. People buy apartments over the internet without even seeing them,” and so I said, “Okay, I guess I can make my own hours that way.” So I got my license and my first day was the day Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy in 2008. The benefit to me was that I did not really have a lifestyle to uphold. I was living little check to little check anyway, so it is not like I had money invested, life was just sort of, you know, I live in a 300-square foot box in Koreatown so I just thought real estate was really, really, really, really, really hard, but I became addicted it because you know what is harder? Trying to be an actor in New York City. Do you know what the worst rejection is? When people reject you to your face because of your face. With real estate, people say they would not take apartments or they just would not call me back but it was because of the apartments, I do not think it was because of my eyebrows.

John: Right. So it is less personal.

Ryan: I am okay with it. Yes, less personal. I think that is hard for a lot of people, but for me, it was way better than what I had been dealing with and so I just stuck with it and I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the idea that I could make an income as a percentage of a sale price that has nothing to do with me by connecting people and talking to them while they are making a decision that they were otherwise probably going to make anyway.

John: Right.

Ryan: That is a job? I will do that job all day long, and most people then say, “Oh, but there is no salary, there are no benefits, there are no guarantees,” like, fuck salaries, I have never had a salary or benefit, no one has ever guaranteed me anything, right? I made a hundred and fifty dollars a photo with my hands. Those are my big money days. I just became obsessed with the business and then it grew from there. So that is kind of the back story if you will.

John: That is awesome. We are going to go into the first book later, but we are here today to talk about your new book, Big Money Energy. I want to go into anecdotes from both books but today it is Big Money Energy. For our listeners who want to buy it, obviously, you can go to bigmoneyenergy.com or from Ryan’s website, ryanserhant, S-E-R-H-A-N-T, .com. Of course, this book is available at amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, and other great book stores. Also, I have to just say, at the top of the show, when we are off the air, Ryan made me aware that he is closing a deal while we are doing the show. So not only can he do the Impact Podcast but he is closing a deal. So this is like a Million Dollar Listing Impact version of Ryan closing a deal, so watch him multitask while he answers my questions. Ryan, after this National Best Selling Book that you wrote, Sell It Like Serhant, which is a great book, I read it through twice, why Big Money Energy, why post-2020, maybe one of the craziest, if not the craziest year in human history, coming out of this tragic pandemic that we have all gone through, why Big Money Energy, why now?

Ryan: Sell It Like Serhant was a book that took me nearly ten years to write. It was everything that I knew about how to sell. It was all my tips, all my tricks, all my strategies. It was really my sales bible and I had a lot of it written for a long time for my team, my team members, teaching them how to sell everything that I knew. I really flushed it out and made it a book that was applicable to not just real estate but to all sales and how to build a sales career, and then that book spawned the spin-off show on Bravo and an online sales course, the Sell It Like Serhant sales course has been huge with people all over the world learning how to sell with us and learning our tactics and strategies and increasing their lifestyles which has just been awesome. And then the pandemic hits, and we are quarantined, and I am talking to all of our course members and I am talking to a bunch of random people too, people I do not know doing Instagram lives and just getting emails from people all day long, and a lot of people were being fired or furloughed or just scared. What I heard the most is people were connecting their self-worth to their income. I remember what that was like when I first started doing real estate. I did not get into real estate because I like crown moldings. I got into real estate because I need to pay rent and I did not want to have a lockdown job that would not allow me to do anything else, and real estate, I was told anyway, was you make your own hours. You do not have to go to an office, you could do whatever you want, just sell things or rent things and get paid, and I thought that sounds pretty great. But I remember too, at that time, I had no confidence as an agent. I was barely even confident in my own skin as a person. I had low self-esteem. It is super tough being in New York City. I lived in the worst apartment ever. I ate the same food all day long. I was totally embarrassed about not being able to make it and I did not want to go home. So I carried that desperation on my sleeve, no matter how hard I tried not to. As I was talking to everyone during quarantine, I felt like a lot of people kind of were starting to feel the same way, and a lot of people were saying, “Listen, Ryan, even now, Sell It Like Serhant gave us all the tools of the trade, you gave me my toolkit but my stomach is in knots and I do not know how to use the tools. My throat chokes up. My palms are sweaty. I turned bright red. No one is going to believe me and I have got impostor syndrome,” like all the self-doubt. So Big Money Energy is that unique set of qualities that every super successful person has that allows them to become the person they have always wanted to become.

John: So this is the toolkit? This is the mindset?

Ryan: Yes, the toolkit and mindset. That is exactly right. That is what I told the publisher word-for-word. You cannot just get a toolkit full of a bunch of tools and then go build a house, right? You need to learn how to build the house and then you got to have the confidence in yourself to go put up that house.

John: Right. I love it. Well, I loved in the first book, now that we are going to be– Obviously, science is going to win. This vaccine is happening. We are going to get beyond this, and even though it is wonderful you and I are doing this Zoom interview today and we are all living on Zoom right now, but eventually, we are going to move out of that, again.

Ryan: Yes.

John: And what I love, just back to your secret number three, and I always tell this to our salespeople, “Get your face out of Facebook and go into somebody’s face.” Serhant secret number three, “Never underestimate the power of face-to-face meetings, sometimes emails and texts are not enough to get a deal closed.” Talk about that first big deal that you closed, that landmark story with the Chinese guy.

Ryan: Oh, in Big Money Energy?

John: Yes.

Ryan: Yes, there was that light bulb moment for me, my whole life, honestly, I remember my entire life by deal, like, if you could say, “Ryan, what happened in 2009?” I would say, “Oh, man, I do not know.” If you are like, “When did you meet June Shen?” I would be, like, “Oh, March 15th, 2009.”

John: Right, right.

Ryan: Your life, you remember it because all these deals are so traumatic. I was basically just doing rentals, small tiny sales, like three hundred and sixty thousand, three hundred and ninety thousand, like six hundred, seven hundred or eight hundred thousand on Long Island City, Queens. I was posting open listings of beautiful apartments because that is what my training was, that is what I was told to do. A woman from China named June Shen reached out and said that she was looking to make an investment for her daughter. It turns out she is looking to make an investment and buy a property for her daughter who was not even born yet because that daughter would eventually go to NYU, as they do.

John: Everybody has a plan.

Ryan: Everyone has a plan. She was real and she worked in energy, like oil and gas, and she was coming to New York by herself, pregnant, and was going to come to find an apartment and she needed to work with someone. I had these cool listings that were not mine and she wanted me to show her around. It was like a total lay-up, but I had never even had a lay-up before, I have never even done a sale over I think eight hundred thousand dollars before, and her budget was two and a half million dollars. So I freaked out at first but instead of telling her, “Oh, I do not really do sales like that. I have never done them before,” I said, “Absolutely, a hundred percent. Let me know when you are there. I will send a car for you,” anything I had learned from the movies. I have never done this before and I had a light bulb moment, man, where it is like, you know what, I could do this, I can do this job. I could become a power broker, I do not even know what that means but I can become a real estate broker. I see all these super successful brokers who are just dominating all day long, why not me, right? Why not me? That kind of became my inner mantra, “No matter what, why not me?”

John: That is such a good mantra.

Ryan: And so, I decided, you know what, I am going to clean up. I went and got a suit at Macy’s. I cleaned up my apartment. I rented a car on my credit card, it was terrifying, and I went and I did all my research. I studied everything because I knew I can start acting like I have been doing this for ten years so that when she gets off her plane from China she is with somebody who knows what he is doing, but how the hell am I going to get ten years of experience in a week? What is ten years of experience? Ten years of experience is just information. It is just knowledge. I have been around the block. So I do not have deal experience, but what I can do, because this is what I did as an actor for all those years, I can memorize information. So I figured out what apartments I was going to show her and I walked that tour every day, all day, for that entire week before she got there. I memorized everything, every fact about every building, the amount of apartments that were in each one, the sizes, the developers, the architects, and if there were celebrities. I went into every coffee shop, met everybody, memorized the menus just in the off chance that she gets hungry or need a drink, I could walk in with her, in my mind this is what I am thinking, and go up and say, “Hey, Bob,” and Bob would know me because I introduce myself every day for seven days and get her a matcha latte with this, that, and the other, and really, really hook her up because this is what I do, right?

John: The lifestyle.

Ryan: Winning confidence.

John: Right.

Ryan: And she showed up, she slept most of the time because she was jet-lagged and pregnant, and she bought an apartment for just over two million dollars and we did that deal like three a.m. at St. Regis and she asked me to bring her McDonald’s, and I will never forget–

John: You talked about standing in the lobby just in utter amazement with everything that was going on at St. Regis, which is–

Ryan: Yes, it was insane. And so, yes, dude, it is totally crazy. So I did that deal and that is when I realized, this is something that I can do. That was my first big commission check, it was twenty-five thousand dollars, and it blew my mind and I realized, you know what, there are more of these people. I can do a lot more of these deals and I am going to keep doing them, over and over and over and over again.

John: That was it. We have got, today, for our listeners and viewers out there, of course, you know, but if you do not, Ryan Serhant, the founder and CEO of Serhant, Big Money Energy is his new book. He is the star of Million Dollar Listing New York. I am a native New Yorker. I have been his fan since the first season. He is just amazing. You can also find Ryan and his colleagues at ryanserhant.com. Ryan, I love how honest you are in the book in all your anecdotes and also all the props you give, all the great people around you including your mom, your dad, your stepdad, your brothers, and your sisters. I love that you say, as a young boy, that they used to call you crying Ryan and you just said, “I am not going to be crying Ryan, I am Ryan the lion.

Ryan: Yes.

John: And is that something that you play that over still when you said, just when you are telling the June Shen story, I keep thinking, “I am not crying Ryan, I am Ryan the lion.”

Ryan: Yes, I do not think about that that often anymore. No one calls me crying Ryan, unless my employees, the people that work here, do behind my back. I think they call me a lot of things.

John: But, I mean, like, you play it back that that is where you came from and you even give credit to that in your books, that that is still part of you, that stuff still stays part of your DNA, you do not have a chip on your shoulder, you have a boulder on your shoulder it always seems like.

Ryan: Yes, I think, Million Dollar Listing cast me in 2010. I went to an open casting call with three thousand agents and it was really, really tough. In November, they said, “Hey, we are casting four of you, Ryan you are one of them, congratulations, but just FYI, only three of you are making the final show. Okay. And it was me, Fredrik Eklund, Michael Lorber, and then another person who did not make it. I was not Howard Lorber’s son, and I was not Fredrik Eklund who had been in the business for ten years, right? I was renting apartments. I did one sale to one Chinese lady and I had one building at that point which is kind of my claim to fame. I took that one deal and I just freaking milked it, talked about it left, right, and center. That also taught me something about how to market yourself, but there was a lot of push back to me being on Million Dollar Listing the first season. There are a lot of people who said I should not have been cast in the first place. There are a lot of people who said I was not a real broker, I am not from New York. People were super mean. People are very mean in this city. You need to be very, very tough and I will never, ever, ever forget all of that. So it pushed me to work even harder to not get cut on the first season and it pushed me to be the absolute best broker possible because up until very recently, people still said, “Now, he is just this reality TV guy, he is not a real broker, he does not do this, does not do that.” Well, I was a couple of minutes late to our podcast, just FYI, because I was just posting on Instagram that I just sold the second most expensive house in the history of the United States for just under a hundred and forty million dollars.

John: Right today? Right now?

Ryan: Yes, like twenty minutes ago.

John: Unbelievable.

Ryan: So that is the deal that I am working on. Just making sure it is all clean, it is good, the buyer is happy, all that.

John: Say that again, how big was that sale? A hundred and forty million?

Ryan: Yes, the asking was just under a hundred and forty million.

John: Well, you are going to have to come back on Impact again, because the next time you want to do a big deal, I mean dude, this will be a–

Ryan: You are the reason.

John: Yes. Well, I want to be part of something. For our listeners out there, that story of– I do not want to go into that story necessarily today, but it is one of my favorite stories in your book when they came to film you, do the test run, whatever it is called, the screen test for a Million Dollar Listing, how the day ended early and how you figured out how to get out of the day and make it seem like– You used actually a girl who had basically dumped you in a very sweet but nice way, you used your lie to literally blow off the cast when you were out of stuff to do with them right after your boxing lesson, and after one of your tours, one of the great stories in your books, another great anecdote, but for those who want to read it, it is in Big Money Energy. You got to read his book, bigmoneyenergy.com, amazon.com, Barnes & Noble. Of course, you could get it on his website ryanserhant.com. He just closed a hundred and forty million dollar deal. Did we need to say more about why you need to buy this book? Come on, right? I mean, honestly, this show could be over now, but there is so much to go into. Going back, we talked about this is the toolkit, this is the mindset. As you said, 2020 brought external anxiety and external pressures that nobody was really equipped to deal with, and now that we are into 2021 and getting back off the canvas and getting on with it is really what you cover in here. Talk a little bit about what you mean in Big Money Energy with, “Be the future you, now.” “Be the future you, now,” what do you mean by that?

Ryan: Yes. So a lot of people tell me they are like, “Okay, so what did you do? How did you start working with luxury clients? How did you pick yourself up and start running around? Did you just fake it until you make it?” A lot of people talk about that, right? Fake it until you make it. Tell everyone you are great and you will just be great. There is some truth to that. I believe in the power of positive energy. I believe in vision boards. I have got a whiteboard in my office right here that has got all our goals and I better hit them, but I do not believe in being disingenuous. I do not believe in not being authentic to yourself. I do not think you should ever lie. I believe that you have the power to be the absolute biggest and best version of yourself whenever you are ready, maybe you are ready today, maybe you are not. I believed after I did that deal that I was ready today, and I did not want to wait ten years. I wanted to start being the best real estate broker in the United States tomorrow, was I going to have the resume to prove it? Absolutely not. Was I going to have the experience to be able to talk about fifteen hundred deals and this that and the other? No way. But could I start carrying myself in such a way where I would humbly be able to walk into rooms as somebody who knew exactly what he was doing? Big Money Energy is all about knowing what you want and going and getting it. It is Big Magnetic Energy. It is the ability to control your energy so you can control your life, so you can attract success to you and not sit and wait for the opportunity because that is what I noticed the most successful people in the room were doing and I wanted that. I wanted that, and the first way you get there is you have to have a plan. So we are talking about you, we are talking about mindset. We are talking about your life. So what is your plan for your life? Write it down. Who are you going to be in the future? For me, right now, I think about Ryan 2030 all day long because ten years ago was like yesterday to me, it goes by so fast. In my Ryan 2030, I think about who that guy is going to be and how I can make that guy’s life awesome. So for you, and anyone listening, you do not have to go out ten years or nine years, you can go out two years, okay? You can go out twenty-four months. Write down who that person is. What do they look like? What do they weigh? If that matters to you. Who are they with? Do they have more kids? Are they on vacation? Are you in a new job? A new car? Get real material, write it all down. Who are you in two years? That is now your goal. That is the future you, that person. You do not have all those things today, but you can start being her or him right now. Start carrying yourself with those shoulders right now, and I am telling you, if you do that and you believe it more than anyone else, you will become that person, but better. There is something to be said– Remind me where you are based?

John: We are in California, in Fresno, California, but I have an office in New York and we have facilities across America.

Ryan: Okay. Tom Brady just won his seventh Super Bowl, right?

John: Right.

Ryan: And there is something that people in the defense when they play against him always say, like, “Is he the best athlete?” “No way. But man, oh man, that guy believes so, so solidly that he is the absolute best. That he causes everyone else to have doubt in their own abilities so they do not play as well.” We literally just watch that happen on TV. Where like the greatest quarterback, physically, athletically, what he can do, Mahomes, was so intimidated by Brady in the Super Bowl that he did not play is good because Brady believed in himself so much more. It is amazing how real that becomes. So if you believe in yourself, everybody else will.

John: Ryan, I love that, but also you make it so clear in your books your preparation level, as you just said about the June Shen meeting, but just even in your daily practice, your discipline is amazing. Brady’s discipline is unmatched, Gisele and the kids moved out of the house twelve days prior to the Super Bowl. She herself is a superstar near billionaire model. They moved out of the house so he can watch film for twelve days without any interruption. You happened to have a routine. You are up at 4:30.

Ryan: Yes.

John: You intermittent fast, twelve to six is how you eat?

Ryan: Yes.

John: You watch what you eat, you exercise every day. Talk a little bit about discipline equaling freedom, discipline equaling success and that is part of getting your mindset right, getting your body right, getting your whole persona and look and lifestyle right to win. Talk a little bit about how you do it and how you coach others to do it as well, especially here in Big Money Energy.

Ryan: Yes. Discipline reminds me a lot of my parents and my dad disciplining us. I make a lot of choices and I stick to them. Professionals make decisions based on their commitments, amateurs make decisions based on their feelings, how they feel that day. I make choices that in turn become commitments and I do not waiver off of them because I am an adult. I am a professional. Why would I make a choice and make a commitment and then not do it? All I am doing is showing that I am not a professional, I am not an adult. So if you want to be a kid, go be a kid. Those choices help really, really set me free because it also gives me something to lock into. My routine becomes my rock. That is it. It is my routine. It is how I do it, and it allows me to add in flexibility if and when I need to, but it keeps me busy so that at the end of the day, man, and I just started this company four months ago, my own real estate firm after I was at another brokerage for twelve years, I want to be too busy to fail. I do not even want to think about failure and think about overhead and think about all those things that will just get into my head. I want to be so busy and have so much going on that I just did not have time to fail, even if we get close to it, like I will miss it.

John: Let us talk about those three M’s that you talked about in this book, magnetism, mindset, and motivation. First one is you say, “Shed your work PTSD,” what does that mean? That is interesting and I know it is in the book, talk about to our listeners what that means.

Ryan: So that means we all carry baggage, okay? You cannot be free, you cannot start working on the future you unless you remove excess baggage. A lot of us carry our past into our present, so that is one thing that you have to learn on removing, and one of the ways you can do that is with effective time management and there are different ways that you can let go. I understand grief, okay, I understand there is a lot of things that will be with you forever and they are part of your makeup and that is totally fine, but a lot of us have work PTSD with a past boss or employee or something happen at work and it just affects all of your work going forward. You have to leave all of that stuff at the door because it is absolutely meaningless, and I go into how to do that all the time.

John: Good. Talk about killing problems that pollute and give that for the anecdote on the blanket, the forty million dollar blanket anecdote.

Ryan: Yes. I was selling a house, a beach house, a forty-million-dollar beach house in the Hamptons two years ago, and it was completely crazy and the deal was coming as forty million dollars for the house, completely furnished, and then at the last minute, the seller added in a rider that said they wanted five things to stay, the pizza oven and a bunch of stuff and a blanket. So instead of going to the client and saying, “Hey, what about this?” you control the situation, which is what I did. I controlled the situation and I went back to the sellers and I said, “Hey. If I bring this to my client, there is no deal. You make up your mind.” They got angry. They yelled. They screamed. I said, “You make me bring this to my client, I do not care how cheap this stuff is, you told us you would sell it for forty million dollars fully furnished and now you are not.” So they removed everything but the blanket. So the blanket became this disease, became this problem. And so that entire chapter is really all about how to effectively communicate, especially with really successful people, so how to communicate like a boss. The way you do that is to think about a high-end doctor. If you got problems, they are not coming in just ripping through all your problems, no, they think about their words, they think about what they say to you, they space things out and they tell you what you need to hear because you do not always need to hear everything, and the reason you go to the doctors is because they are the expert, right? They are the expert. They will tell me what I need to know, and I behave the same way and people with big money energy behave the same way. If I had gone to my client and said, “Hey, just so you know, they are keeping this blanket. It is a hundred bucks. I am buying you a new one.” It would have been down to principle because when you are dealing with billionaires, it is always about principle. So he would have said, “No,” he would have said, “No problem, keep the blanket and I will keep my forty million, no problem.” And so I held firm, I held the line, I put the deal on the line. It was very risky. I could have just lied to him and said, “Hey, everything is good,” but it just would not have sat right with me, and the sellers acquiesced and they sold the place and they gave us their stupid blanket, and the buyer never knew and we still move forward, because that is what I care about, it is getting deals done.

John: The other thing you talked about magnetism, mindset, and motivation, and just saying yes even if you do not feel ready. First of all, you already gave the June Shen story that talks to that, you gave the Million Dollar Listing story that talks to just saying yes, even if you do not feel ready right away, also, you give a story about being in Mexico or somewhere like that with your sister getting sunburned, being in a movie theater, and getting an email, and just like things changing but then working everything with confidence. Let us go back to what you just said. You started a company. You left the brokerage house, which was very comfy for twelve years.

Ryan: Super comfy.

John: Super comfy. You could have stayed there forever and a day. You could have stayed there and never have to leave those comforts that you had, business comforts, your routine. Why start your own firm during a pandemic when everyone said, “Oh my God, New York, everyone is vacating, they are going to Miami, they are going to Dallas, they are going to the Hamptons and never coming back to the city. The city is never going to be the same, ever, ever, never, ever,” and you did something counterintuitive as the ultimate entrepreneur and you started your own real estate firm. Explain that saying, yes, even if maybe the world did not understand that kind of thinking.

Ryan: Why do mountain climbers climb mountains? Because they are there, right? I built a large sales team. We were the number one selling sales team in New York for three years in a row. What was I going to do? Do it again? Do it again? Do it again? No, sometimes you need to shake the shit up and do try new things. The next best step for me was starting my own place and that is what we did, in New York, in the middle of a pandemic when New York was completely shut down and a million people moved out.

John: Got it. Is this way overblown that New York is never going to be the same? What is your thought process on real estate now in New York and other great places that you are selling real estate, you are going to become as– you are still so young and have decades in front of you, what is going to happen post-pandemic and how has your firm been doing the first four months? I know it is still top of the first inning here, but what is your outlook now on everything?

Ryan: I would tell you and then I am going to have to let you go because I am in the middle of a lot of things blowing up in front of me and I am actually a real estate broker full-time.

John: Okay. The outlook is great, man. It is rosy, it is bright, things are awesome. Things were not great last year, but it cannot rain all the time so it is exciting to be in the position where we are in right now and it is the future, man, it is crazy, the things we could do, the information we can transfer, the stuff that is just at our fingertips, it is the most exciting it has ever been and it will continue to be the most exciting ever, and that is what excites me about the future. We can sell things anywhere, we can do whatever we want to be successful if you want to be, and if you do not want to be, no problem, you do whatever you want, stay on, move out, go to the beach, sit in the hut, sleep there, eat fish, you can do whatever you want and I think that is awesome. Freedom of choice is what keeps me going and I love it.

John: I appreciate all your time today. I know you are closing one of the biggest transactions ever in your career and in American US History. You go back to closing that. For our listeners out there, he is Ryan Serhant, you can find him at ryanserhant, S-E-R-H-A-N-T, .com. Of course, watch him on Million Dollar Listing. He has got a new podcast. He has a new television show called Selling It Like Serhant. This is the toolkit, buy it if you want to be a great entrepreneur or salesperson, this is a toolkit and this is Big Money Energy, BME. This is the mindset, get them both, be like Ryan Serhant.

Ryan: Thanks, man.

John: Ryan the lion, we love you. You are always welcome back here. Hope to meet you one day in person. Go close that deal, man.

Ryan: All right. See you.

John: Take care.

John: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking engine revolutionizing the talent booking industry. With hundreds of athletes, entrepreneurs, speakers, and business leaders, Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent for your next event. For more information, please visit letusengage.com.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by the marketing masters. The marketing masters is a boutique marketing agency offering website development and digital marketing services to small and medium businesses across America. For more information on how they can help you grow your business online, please visit themarketing masters.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. I’m John Shegerian. I’m so excited to have my good friend Daniel Diaz. Welcome to Impact Daniel.

Daniel Diaz: Thank you for having me. John, I am excited to be on the show with you guys today.

John: Well, just excited to have you in, you know, Daniel, you’re a Life Mastery coach, and I would love you to share with our listeners, what that really means and what you do and how you make such a great impact in the world that we live in.

Daniel: Sure, sure, absolutely. I really work in a direction of peak performance. And I and I help people with that through mindset and habits. And I would say, you know, what kind of makes me a little bit different in the way that my approach is with coaching is I’m also a heart centered coach, you know, and I believe that it’s really important to really get people in that state, where they are so in love and full on themselves and their power and their belief in themselves. That anything is there. Anything is accomplishable you know, any? There, there are limitless possibilities.

So, I work with clients, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of high achievers purpose driven people. And, you know, the work and the goals that we set for them in their business and their life. It really comes down to their mindset and their habits, and really allowing themselves to be themselves fully, you know, and live life powerfully as who they are. So I don’t know if that [crosstalk]

John: Sounds great and all , and habits being. So when we talk about habits, do we talk about rituals? Or do we talk about more towards the [inaudible] willing mode? You know, motive, modus operandi of discipline equals freedom. Is it discipline? Or is it rituals? Or it says, Is it a combination of both?

Daniel: That’s a great question. You know, I’d say it’s a it’s a little bit of both, right? So like, I’d say that to really to perform at your highest level to be in your peak state, you need clarity, you need energy, you need a mindset, you need habits. And I like to do I like to make habits that promote clarity, energy and mindset. Right, so I have a morning routine, right? A morning ritual that I get up early, I have my I hydrate I exercise, I meditate, you know, I journal and then I read so like I, you know, or I listened to an audio book or something like that. So I’m taking in information and prime my mind i prime my body right now like that is I mean, is it a habit? Yeah, but it’s a ritual, right? Like, right, right? I love it. Maybe what separates it is that like rituals, like we love them, like we just liked. They’re powerful. We know that they work and maybe a habit is more of you know, your discipline act that you know, you must do in order to achieve what you’re after.

John: Yes, so interesting, because as you know, we’re taping this show here in early May 2020, when we’re living through this tragic crisis, pandemic that’s affecting everyone more is, you know, around the world, people are affected, and some people are affected more than others. But let’s go and talk about that. So many people now are working from home teleworking, because of the shelter in place that’s been done in most states and cities across America. What you just talked about in terms of rituals and habits. Has that been, do you believe that is thrown off a lot of people because now they’re out of their typical, wake up, get in their car, get on a bus, go to work, come home, and do their thing. Their whole ritual and habit has been thrown off with a whole new ecosystem that they were forced to deal with? How does that set up the future for a great mentor coach like you in a post COVID-19 work life, world in terms of your business in your industry and your opportunities as both an entrepreneur but also as a Life Mastery coach?

Daniel: So I’ll give you a little bit experience and then a little bit of my thoughts as well share, like, you know, the experience that I had with Corona virus. So far as when this all really happened, I just I kind of just more was aware of this need that people needed more help right now. Right and there was this frightening there’s, you know the frightening energy around this financial loss and these deficits and unemployment and everything. So I really just kind of went on the giving offensive, I guess is a good way to put it. So like I started doing lives, I created an online Summit Series, you know, and just wanted to start, you know, giving people as much positive mindset, you know, habit, rituals, information that they can do that they can apply to their life simple stuff, right. And what I’ve noticed is that there’s a lot of people listening.

John: Hmm.

Daniel: There’s a lot of people listening.

John: That’s fascinating. So you’re, there’s a thirst for this information. There’s a thirst for this knowledge and this understanding?

Daniel: Yes, you know, and like, and I obviously won’t say who they are. But there’s, there’s people that I’ve known for a long time, personally, that I’m actually seeing come alive, that I’m seeing. And, and, and more so their, their mind and their openness, right. Like, because this shocked us so hard. I mean, it still is affecting us right now.

John: Right.

Daniel: But it was in such a interesting way, like, Whoa, like, did this thing catch us off guard or what? You know, and I’m sure there’s some people that were ahead of the curve and what was coming. But, you know, I mean, ultimately, this thing rocked us. And it took people into a different mindset and a mindspace. And I think that in the future, looking ahead, there’s going to be a lot of people as this thing starts to turn around, and we start getting back to, you know, earning and creating and generating, there’s going to be a lot of people that have listened a lot during this time, and are going to be really ready to act, ready to jump on to something and change their life and step up because people are over people are downloading right now. You know what I mean? They’re downloading how they’re feeling they’re down, I realize that you situation, and they’re downloading information from people that are telling them how to get better at most difficult time.

John: That’s fascinating. Hey, for listeners who just joined us, I’ve got my good friend on with us today, Daniel Diaz. To find out more about what Daniel does, or to contact him and to get involved with his great coaching business, you can go to www.thedanieldiaz.com, speaking entrepreneur, Daniel, people always write or tell us as entrepreneurs, that we have to learn to love the process, learning to love the process, what does that mean to you and your journeys on your own entrepreneurial journey, and then how do you use that in your coaching when you explain that to your clients and constituents?

Daniel: Yes, absolutely. So, you know, a lot of the people that I work with, they’ve achieved at a high level, they’re driven, they are achievers in the majority of every single person I work with. Now, what’s interesting is that a lot of people suffer from a lack of fulfillment, that there is this missing element, and or maybe there’s a disconnection with the partner, maybe there’s a disconnection with the children. Maybe there’s a disconnection with themselves with their health. Right, like, there’s this wheel that has six spokes and five of them are good, and then there’s one that’s missing. And I find that I find I’m sorry, my, I don’t know if you guys can hear my child’s upstairs.

John: That’s okay. That’s just like [crosstalk], Okay. That’s just real life that’s over. So we gotta we gotta embrace all the things that come with being at home, don’t worry about it.

Daniel: So I’m sorry, I lost where I was at.

John: We were talking about learning to love the process.

Daniel: Yes. I love the process, though. You know, what I find is that we get really get often stuck in this mode of achieving and forgetting about, you know, who we are in this process. Like what I’ve noticed with a lot of people that are you know, that are entrepreneurs that are suffering right now in this space, you know, or COVID is really affecting people’s businesses. And I and I empathize for these people. And I noticed that there is a pattern of people forgetting who created the business in the first place, right? Where the power lies. And I believe that when we connect more to that, and we start to celebrate the small victories, the daily victories, right, noticing the impacts that we’re having on people, and we start to set into that the achievement becomes sweeter, because we are enjoying every step of the way. Does that make sense?

John: Makes total sense that makes total sense. You know, when did you start your business yourself as an entrepreneur? How many years ago? And what were your expectations when you started your coaching business?

Daniel: Hmm, you know, I’ve been an entrepreneur, my whole life, man, I had my friend, I used to cut lawns, and I was a kid, I’ve, you know, I bought all my, I paid for all my stuff growing up.

John: You’re a junkie or serial entrepreneur.

Daniel: Serial entrepreneur, [crosstalk] I would say that, you know, it really, it really all started with my, I started a food truck in 2012 in Washington, DC, and a lot of people thought I was crazy, that, you know, that to start a food truck, but it was something that I was really, really passionate about, and was really excited about it. And me and a friend started it. And within nine months, we got written up in Forbes magazine, we were just killing it, you know, just doing amazing things we went to, we went to a brick and mortar, we went to a catering company, we added a restaurant, rooftop bar, you know, we’re just like, just going and going and going through that process, you know, and, and that running that restaurant, I got really tied into the work, to the hustle to the 18 hours, you know, and like it became this identity that it ate me up to like, I’m disconnected with my health, my relationships, you know, just like my relationship with my wife, my relationship with myself, I really just like I got really beat up. And this was some years back, I would say about six years ago. And at that point, I decided that personal development was like going to be what was going to just kind of happen, that was what happened. For me, my wife’s actually suggested that I started connecting with Tony Robbins, and I was like, “Oh, the guy from Shallow Hell.” And I ended up following his and you know, going through his trainings, and it changed my life. And then I became a different businessman, a different entrepreneur, right and amplified, working at a higher level and healthy, good, strong habits. And a couple years ago, I just really kind of I, my mind started to stretch into this space that I needed to be in something different. And I needed to be creating more of an impact. And I had learned so much through personal development, and all these trainings that I’ve done that I was, I was ready to help other people that had suffered, like I had, right that it had caught up in this work that, that they’re that they’re creating in their building, but man, they’re disconnected. They’re missing something, and I wanted to help more people change their life, you know, and get back to understand their limitless possibilities. So my business as a coach shifted, in 2018, I started doing consulting for the restaurants, other food trucks. And then actually, this time two years ago was when the decision was kind of made that like, I wasn’t, I was going to go and create this business. And, and that’s what happened and I just went for it, man, I just, you know, I, we, me and my business partner, we came to an agreement. And we always we love each other for everything that we created and it was time for us to split and do different things. And he was going to take over the business and I was going to create a new one where I was going to help people and I was going to connect and I was going to create a larger impact and that’s kind of how it started, man, it was very organic. And it happened fast. You know, I did some advertising on Facebook and it built quick. It built very fast. So it’s been an amazing ride. It’s been a whole new experience and a new business and I’m just in love with it. You know, and I’m in love with the process, you know, of recreating, you know, getting, you know, I mean, it’s almost like starting from scratch. So it’s been a lot of fun.

John: So what your first baby, your food business?

Daniel: Yes.

John: Was time to grow up and your partner took it on and he was growing that up and you it was time for another baby to be born. That’s right. And you and you created a new business and that’s what great entrepreneurs do. I mean, that’s, that’s really, that’s great. That’s great stuff to talk about. You know, assets. We all have strengths, we all have weaknesses. And you get to have a lot of visibility into leadership’s assets, especially since this is the Impact Podcast, we’re talking about leaders that want to make an impact. What do you see as a common thread among leaders, assets that want to make an impact and make the world, their community first, that could be their community, could be their city, their state, or the world a better place? How do you see the importance of identifying leaders assets, and then leveraging those assets to do the great work that they can do?

Daniel: So that’s a great question. You know, I would say that I try to reverse engineer this. So like integrity is one of the most important things of a leader that they say that they’re going to do something that they do it. And I think that the word self-confidence gets thrown out, often. But I think actually, what’s more powerful is there’s a lot of self-trust with leaders, they trust themselves, they know that if they say they’re going to do something that they’re going to follow through and do it, right, because they have integrity. And then that goes back, that’s reverse engineering, they have self-trust, because they follow through on the promises they make to themselves, meaning the habits that they set out, or the things that they say they’re going to do every single day, they actually do them. So they have trust in themselves. So that’s kind of this backwards, real, right? Where it gets down to what are your habits? You know, what is your mindset, real leaders have a mindset, and, and, and they have rituals, habits, the way that they conduct themselves, the way that they walk into rooms, right, the way that they greet people and interact and communicate the way that they give. Leaders are out in front, they communicate, right, they are out there communicating in a place of service. So I see that with leaders, and I see people that when they want to step up and step into that space, and if there’s fear, and if there’s doubt, that’s okay. Like, you know, leaders have that too, right? Like, some of the best speakers in the world throw up behind stage before they go up on stage, you know, like, it just happens, right? But it’s when we have self-trust, and we commit, and we follow through on the small things that we do we build that self-trust. And I believe that real leaders have a cumulative amount of self-trust by following through on the promises that they make to themselves on a regular basis.

John: That’s great. You know, it’s funny, you said about leaders who are going to go speak and sometimes throw up behind stage before they go speak. I watched a documentary on the best quarterbacks in the NFL, and they said, some of the best quarterbacks throw up in the locker room before the game and, and they were interviewed and, and they were asked about that habit. And what do you throw up? Are you that scared, you’re scared? Because I just care that much. I’m so amped up. I care that much that I want to go out there and be my best.

Daniel: Yes.

John: It’s not about being scared. It’s about caring. And reporters, eyes, you could just tell them and you know, and I’m like, wow, wow. You know, I just I love that stuff. I love people who care that much. Yeah, about everything that they do about everything that they do. And, you know, we talked a little bit about what we’re all living through together here, Daniel, and for our listeners who just joined us, we’ve got Daniel Diaz was with us today. And to connect with Daniel, and the important work that he does, you could go to www.thedanieldiaz.com, thedanieldiaz.com.

COVID-19 and the externalities of it. And when I say that, I mean, we’re all shelter in place. We’re all tuned in or watching some form of news, whether it’s online, whether it’s from friends or relatives, whether it’s on CNN, NBC or Fox, the news is getting to us in some way, shape, or form. So these external forces at work here, and it’s typically negative during this last 60 or 75 days. What do you–when people face these externalities, some that they can control and some that they can’t. And here in this case, none of us could control the inception and growth of this tragic pandemic.

Daniel: Yes.

John: What are some of the best tips or tricks to get that you share with your clients and your audience members to get themselves and or their companies or organizations that they’ve created back on track?

Daniel: You know, I’d say there’s a couple answers. But you know, I, I go back to this, this knowing your inherent worth, right this knowing how powerful and how creative you are, as an entrepreneur, as a, as a leader, and as a business owner, as an employee, right, like, you are so important and powerful. And I believe that when we are in a peak state, and when we give our minds, our bodies and our spirits, the right type of love, right, like, whether it’s through exercise, healthy diet, you know, meditation, family time, whatever it happens to be that you feed yourself, this good, you fill your cup, right? I believe that when we’re in that space, we are at our most creative and our most imaginative. Where we focus, our energy is going to go right, or focus goes energy flows. So when we are in a higher state, and we are elevated, because our mind, our mind is set, our habits are strong, we’re feeling good about ourselves, we’re gonna be able to look for the solutions and what’s being presented to us, right? We are so resilient. And we’re so smart. Like, there is so much power in what happens in these moments. I mean, that last, the last financial crisis in 2008, it wasn’t like Uber, Slack. Air Bnb, like all companies that were created during that time, where people just got extra creative. I believe that you’re able to get that creative and find yourself on the other side of this fear. When you know how strong and powerful and creative you can be, and how much impact your company can have when you really give it everything, right. So, you know, when it comes to this time, a lot of our thoughts, you know, in our fears that you know, generate thoughts, that a lot of it comes from what questions are being asked, right, our brain ask us ask questions all day, so you start asking yourself questions that will promote the empowerment of yourself, as opposed to limitations, you’ll find yourself in a much better space. If you’re asking yourself, you know, what do I get to create in this time, you know, who needs me in this time? You know, who do I need to be 100% for right now, you start to ask yourself these questions that fuel positive, you know, forward focus thoughts and answers to these questions. You know, you’ll start clearing the time that, you know, your mind says, what am I going to do if this doesn’t work out? It’s not looking good. This many more people died, you know, oh, my God, it’s going to kill I mean, you know, like, when the fish I mean, it, you’re right, it can be a fear cycle like that thing. Like a cyclone, like, in the news. It is. I mean, we don’t watch the news. We don’t the news does not go on in our house. Right. So if you want to have it.

John: That’s a good habit. That’s a good idea. You know, it’s funny you say about the news not being in your house. I know you have a young one at home.

Daniel: Yes.

John: And I’m an older generation. So I’ve got to see, my children grow up. And I’ve got to talk to a lot of my peers, about raising children over the years. One of the common themes I’ve seen with high performing children. When I’ve asked the parents wait to see your son went to Harvard? Your daughter went to Stanford? And was a star of one of the sports teams and also had high grades and also got their medical degree or law degree and, and you hear these incredible stories, and their siblings are similarly high performing. And I asked the parents, like, what were you doing that I wasn’t. Not that my kids haven’t done fine. Well, both of them are lawyers. But I see and, and the, one of the most interesting themes I’ve heard from other parents is no TV, or extraordinarily limited screen time. Now this was my generation was when television was the center point of a house or a bedroom situation. This was before your generation now is faced, Daniel, with also iPads and other tablets, and other forms of screen time. But I think your ritual and habit of limiting those externalities into your household, not only serve you and your wife Well, from being overwhelmed, or getting involved with some sort of emotional pandemic, which certainly nobody wants or needs, but I bet you will serve your child, and eventually, God willing children well as also, because that is one common theme I’ve seen with my friends, relatives and other peers who have had high performing children, and not as anomaly as siblings go. It’s just fascinating to see that they were very limited in their TV time, because that our, our children’s generation, my children’s generation was a TV generation. They didn’t have all the other gadgets that are now of course available.

Daniel: Yes.

John: I think you’re right. I think doing that. I think I think I think you’re absolutely right. And listen, this is you know, of course, you’re going to be coming back on the on impact you, you know, having you on, because you get to you’re really what I call a sneezer, you’re one of these people that not only are creating a positivity and impact in your own world, but because you coached so many people, because you speak to so many people, you are really making a multitude of impacts, just through your impactful behavior, and profession. So I want to have you back on. But before we say goodbye, I want to give you a chance to have any final words, for our listeners, who are interested in both your services, or just making a difference or an impact in the community, a world that they live in.

Daniel: Yes, absolutely. You know, during the pandemic, I launched a summit series called peak life. Now, if you go to peak life, now.com you can sign up, it’s free. And, you know, we ran 15 interviews, John was one of them. And it was incredible. And it was a lot centered around, you know, I mean, it really, it was centered around entrepreneurs and growth and balance, but it really ended up coming out to a lot of mindset and how to be proactive in these times, especially. And it turned out great. And what we’re going to end up doing is running more interviews on that on that channel, and just kind of continuing this, you know, fun time for free information and to really, you know, build your mind, build your habits, build yourself through a little bit more of a community.

You can go visit that we have a Facebook group that’s that you can join, you can be connected with other people that are watching the show. And then you can come and connect with me at thedaniel diaz.com. I do speaking workshops for companies and I work with a lot of people one on one that are looking to get to that next level in life. So yes, I’d be happy to talk to any of you guys. And John, thank you so much for having me. This was a blast. You know, I love talking to you. So this was a this is always a good time.

John: Daniel, you’re it’s an honor to have you on the show. it’s an honor to have you as a friend. You’re making an extraordinary impact in the world. And for that I’m grateful. Thank you again for being a guest You’re always welcome back on the show, and continued great work in success.

Daniel: Thank you, john. Appreciate it.

John: This edition of the impact podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking engine revolutionizing the talent booking industry, with hundreds of athletes, entrepreneurs, speakers and business leaders. Engage is the go to spot for booking talent for your next event. For more information, please visit letsengage.com.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy. It is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit ERIdirect.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast and I am John Shegerian and I am so honored today to have the first time ever in 13 years the great mother-daughter team of Arndrea Waters King and Yolanda Renee King. Welcome to the Impact podcast, both mom and daughter.

Yolanda Renee King: Well, thank you for having us.

Arndrea Waters King: Thank you for having us, absolutely.

John: But it is a total honor and it is a pleasure and we are still living during this Covid-19 tragic period. We are doing this all via technology on Zoom. You are at today in Atlanta?

Arndrea & Yolanda: We are.

John: I am in Fresno, California, but I feel like we are in the same room. So it is really wonderful to have a chance to be together even during these tough times that we get to share a nice conversation and we get to share with our listeners and our viewers a little bit about both of your backgrounds and some of the things that are on your mind right now. With that, Arndrea, I want to ask you a little bit. First, tell us a little bit about your background leading up to marrying your husband and your activism and what you were doing before you got married and what you have been doing since?

Arndrea: Such a loaded question.

John: That is okay.

Arndrea: Since here. No, [crosstalk] been doing. But I am and again. first of all, thank you again for having us. We have been looking forward to this, particularly for the two of us to be able to do this together and have some time with you, John, and your audience.

John: Thank you.

Arndrea: So it is really great. I am an activist. I monitored for many many years hate crimes and hate groups. So, we monitor groups such as the Ku Klux Klan, Neo-Nazi, Skinheads, various white supremacist groups in the mid to late 90s. What made my work a little bit unique is that I actually help communities that have been impacted by these particular groups and my organization was the first organization that looked at the connectedness. So, we were the first organization to monitor hate crimes against black people, against gay, lesbian, transgender, anti-Semitism, anti-Arab, anti-Native American. So, we were the first group to look at the interconnectedness and bring communities together to hopefully do something to as a community to impact in a positive way, in particular after hate crimes had happened in communities. So I organized the first Hate Crime Summit that brought together the various communities and we help communities organize, we help to pass legislation. So that is it in a nutshell. Now, I am happily the president of the Drum Major Institute, which is the organization that was founded by Martin’s father, Yolanda’s grandfather in 1961 and originally was founded, it was the only organization that he founded solely. He and his lawyer, Harry Wachtel, founded it together and the original purpose was to bail out civil rights protesters to raise money for bail so that when they went to jail that they would be able to be released. Now we are bringing the work into the 21st century.

John: That is just so wonderful. Yolanda, tell us a little bit about your background.

Yolanda: Okay. Well, I mean, of course mine is not as detailed. I have only been around for 12 years.

John: Yeah. Hey, I have seen some of your speeches. You have done a lot more than a lot more people I have ever seen in 12 years. So, just share a little bit about what you have been doing and what grade you are in now.

Yolanda: Okay. Well, I am in 7th grade and for as for as long as I can remember, I have had an urge for change. This is what my parents do. This is what I see them do. At a young age, I was taught, I mean, of course my parents always taught me the beauties of this Earth. However, I was also taught and maybe they did not really teach me but I saw the inequalities in this world. I would say maybe when my activism really started and it is just at the very beginning still because I just really started, was I would say, and most people would think during the March for Our Lives. But I would say a couple years before that when I was 7. We were invited to meet the president, which was at the time President Obama. So, we were invited to go to the Oval Office because there was a bust that was newly installed and it was a bust of my grandfather. So, my parents were like, “Okay, since we are seeing the president, we would like you to come up with a good question to ask him. He can help you as well.” I was like, “I think I can figure it out.” So, I was thinking all these and so I asked the president. I said, “Mr. President. What are you going to do about these guns?” That is when everything, I guess that is when I started to become an advocate during March For Our Lives and an advocate because when I was in fourth grade, that was when the tragedy at Stoneman Douglas High School. Yeah, the tragedy occurred then and I was scared that kids my age, kids seven, kids younger than that may be worried about going to school or even people and in general.

Yolanda: My parents told me you want to cautious but you do not want to live your life in fear. It is just scary to see that all these events are causing children to live their life in fear. As I am seeing these events and what happened last summer and just in general, especially children of color, black children as well that even walking in the road or their parents having to tell them, I have seen all sorts of bads. Instead of talking about college, the parents are teaching them certain ways to behave so law authorities, so police do not see you as suspicious. It is heartbreaking. So, I guess for the last, well, I guess my whole life, I feel like I have been a some sort of advocate. But like I said, I would, well, it is a long story, but if you count my first speech, I was four. But when I really started doing work, I was seven. So yeah, there is my first speech where I am like, “Hi, my name is…” It was for my grandmother. It was at the King Center for my grandmother’s, it was her birthday. I was like, “Hi. My name is Yolanda.” I remember the whole speech. I introduced myself and I said that my grandmother said to be our best selves and then I was like, “Happy Birthday, Coretta Scott King.” Then you could hear my squeaky voice. So, but I would say that when it comes to actually making change change, it is been in me for a while my whole life. But since I was seven so about five years ago.

Arndrea: Well, what is interesting too about that story, Yolanda, is that it just dawned on me as a full circle moment because I mentioned that I organized the first Hate Crime Summit in 1997. We brought an activist we had over a hundred partners, with all different types of organizations and we brought activists from all over our nation to discuss this in Atlanta. The keynote speaker for that conference was Coretta Scott King. Kind of a full circle moment of your first question.

John: I want to go back to another question that I have for you, Arndrea. You see my children here above my shoulder. They are both now 34 and 28 and they are both lawyers and they are also both socially-minded. I am always shocked and now my daughter has a little baby girl and what I am always amazed and thought what they–

Yolanda: Say it again.

John: Thank you. So what I see with your daughter is first of all, she looks so much like you. She has your smile and the room lights up. So, how young were you when you started your activism and do you see the same seeds that drove you to be an activist as a young professional in Yolanda? Did you start that young or were you in your teens? Where did yours come from? Was it from your parents? What was the genesis of your activism?

Arndrea: Well, it is I think when people think about activist, sometimes they think kind of there is only one way to participate. Certainly going to demonstrations and doing petitions or that is certainly any type of direct action is one component of activism and a very important component. I also remind people that anytime that you are doing something in service to others, you are doing something in service to something larger than yourselves. That is a tremendous form of activism. I was raised where my mother was always giving. She passed away two years ago and I do not believe she ever attended a march other than the marches that I organized. So, later in her life she attended many marches. But what she always did in our household, she led by example. She was always giving. It was a way of life for her. It was a way of life to think about others to certainly think about those less fortunate. Always she was a huge even though she is a mother, she is a registered nurse and the first black registered nurse in her hometown of Live Oak, Florida.

Arndrea: She always was as full as her plate was. There was always room at our table for someone who was in transition and needed a home. There was always volunteering for groups, whether it was the mentally challenged groups that people did not particularly, in the 80s, I think maybe hopefully things have changed, but groups that people were not necessarily on the front lines of thought. She was also on the frontlines of working with AIDS patients in the 80s. When a lot of healthcare workers, even at that time, they did not understand the AIDS epidemic and they did not want to necessarily even treats AIDS patients. So, she would be the one that would make sure she did a whole curriculum and a video to show nurses in particular how to treat AIDS patients with compassion and she volunteered at showing people CPR or checking blood pressure. So in our household, it was always a normal thing, so I was raised up in that spirit. So it became a natural evolution to continue to look and see ways in which we could all serve society. I think on top of that and then the other part was I was born with it. So, when you combine those two it…

John: Mother that did not just preach it, she actually showed it. She with her action.

Arndrea: Yeah. Absolutely.

John: It is so great that you bring that up, the word “service”. Here, this is my office where I do my podcast. But this is how we make our living here as we are recycling company. I am going to tell you a funny little story that you cannot see in my office actually. When you walk in the front door, we have quotes all over the walls, just like motivational quotes. But when you walk into our offices, there is only one quote over the front door. The quote over the front doors is, “Everyone could be great because everyone can serve.”

Arndrea: Serve, absolutely.

John: That is your father-in-law and your grandfather’s great quote. To me, that is still means the most. Like you said, Arndrea, serving is just and Yolanda, you asked me a great question when we were off the air. I think you should be running this podcast actually. It is a question that made me think even more now that we have been starting to talk. What made you start this and why do you do this podcast? Well, I think once I started reading about your mom and about you and about all the great things you are doing and how you are making the world a better place, I love that you have made guns your issue. Because frankly speaking, I could see how children are scared of guns. I am 58 years old and I have never owned a gun in my life and I am scared of all the gun violence that exists. But I will tell you a quick story. When I was in ’92 and ’93, we lived in LA with my family and we had what was then called the LA Riots. It was a bad time to live in LA because it is just sad to see your own city fighting with each other. But there was a gentleman named Father Greg Boyle who started a company with me, a nonprofit called Homeboy Industries. In Homeboy, what we did is we got ex-gang members from East LA into jobs. But he had a great line that I want you to think about, “Nothing stops a bullet faster than a job.” Now that you ask me that question when we started, I thought back to you. Why am so drawn to your mom and to you and all the important work you are doing because guns were a problem back then and they are a bigger problem now. Hopefully great people like both of you can help reverse that tide and help us go back to a better way of being whatever better means. But I will tell you what, more guns is not a better society. That is for sure.

Arndrea: It takes all of us. One of the things when you were talking about, John, the fact of the quote about everybody can be great because everybody can serve was that from his earliest writings to the time of his death, Martin Luther King, Jr. talked about the beloved community. What we as a family firmly believe is that it is all of us doing our part. We have to become a coalition of conscience and it is all of us doing our part in our own unique ways. The way that you contribute, John, is different than the way that I would contribute, that the way Yolanda will contribute, the way that Martin will contribute, the way that each of your listeners can or will contribute. That is great. The only and the thing is is that as long as we all contribute using our powers and our passion and our talents, it is each of us. As long as we just kind of idolize Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King and put them on a shelf and really it is we have to find a way to live up to their ideals. It is all of us tapping into our talents and our powers and our passions in our own each unique way that we will indeed create that beloved community. We all have different ways of serving and that is fine, but do it.

Yolanda: To add on to what my mom says and to kind of interpret this or rephrase this, I think yeah, like she said, you should not idolize my grandparents but we should acknowledge and make their teachings because these are really teachings. Most people think, “Oh, it is in a book. It is just document information. Okay, good” But these are actually teachings. These are actually lessons that can be very applicable and should be applicable to our everyday lives.

John: It is so true. Now, did I get this right in my homework about both of you? Are you the only grandchild of Martin Luther King?

Yolanda: That is right.

John: Wow, wait a second. I just want to give a little shout out again for our listeners or viewers who just joined us, we are so honored today to have with us Arndrea Waters King and Yolanda Renee King and two great organizations that they represent today is the Drum Major Institute. You can find the Drum Major Institute at drummajorinst, which is spelled just I-N-S-T.org, drummajor I-N-S-T dot org or MLKing3 with the number 3.com. Yolanda, I got to say this. I was feeling really hopeless the last year or so with the loss of John Lewis, with the loss of Elijah Cummings, Helen Reddy who you do not remember who was a famous singer that talked about women empowerment, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and even Maya Angelou being gone. Then I read and watched all your videos and I watched Amanda Gordon before the inauguration and before the Super Bowl. Now, after watching both of you young ladies, I have a whole new vision of hope because I see who is going to step into the void that exists when those icons like John Lewis and Elijah Cummings and even Ruth Bader Ginsburg has now left us to go on to a better place. I see the young people who are going to step into the next roles of leadership. What is youth in leadership mean to both of you and what is going on now in America in terms of the next generation coming up and stepping up to lead the way to a better society?

Yolanda: Can I answer?

Arndrea: Yep, go ahead.

Yolanda: Okay. So personally, most people underestimate the power and not just a power, what young people are capable of doing. Most people were like, “Oh, let the adults handle this.” They think it is not really a youth issue. If you think about it, in the Civil Rights Movement, the people were not like all, how do I say this without…

Arndrea: Those who were not old? They were all students and young is what you are trying to say?

Yolanda: They were all younger. Yeah. So some of them were my age. I am in middle school, somewhere in high school, somewhere in elementary school. So some of them were around my age when I first started activism like as young as second grade even, I believe. Definitely fourth graders were in it. Third graders were involved, fifth graders. I do not think they had Middle School back then. But they were elementary school students and they were also high school students, they are college students. If you look at all these people like John Lewis during the Civil Rights Movement, they were college students. Also if maybe kids want to be inspired and I would also like to promote this for your viewers in the podcast and maybe for your viewers’ children or young people watching this. That is if you are interested, maybe the congressman or the former congressman has a series of books called March and it is a graphic novel form and it is really informative, really inspiring. It is just like wow, these people really they would do all this so we would be able to go to school together and there is still so much to do. So, I think that could help as a directions guide like when you are putting together something and there is that directions book. I cannot think of the name.

Arndrea: Instruction manual.

Yolanda: Yeah, the instruction. So that is like an instruction manual. Maybe if you want to go out at events, you can look at because I feel this is a very good time for it and maybe even for adults more and young people I inspire you. It is a good challenge and stuff. But maybe even try reading one of my grandfather’s, his last book which he wrote in 1967, I believe. It is called Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? So, I recommend for people to also read that because that is another, what is it called?

Arndrea: Instruction manual.

Yolanda: Instruction manual.

Arndrea: What is powerful about that is that was his last book.

Yolanda: Yes and that is it. It is like this time.

Arndrea: It is very appropriate this. Yes, like you wrote it yesterday last year. But also what is interesting about that is that is where he left off. Then almost every time I read it, it almost is like and then I imagine him saying okay and here, now you and handing to us the baton to do our part in the race.

Yolanda: Maybe back then when he wrote it, maybe people would have been like uh. But now it is like the missing pieces that have been here. You are finding all the other pieces and it is finally clicking together. So for youth people, I want to inspire and for the really youth component for people that are already doing work, I would like to say congratulations, keep on working hard. For those who maybe are not as appealed or have not or do not know how to enter yet, I would say start with those books, especially for young people. Start with March and also start with that book as well. March by John Lewis and wait, that is March from John Lewis and Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? from my grandfather, Martin Luther King. Also, I would just like to if people are wondering how can they contribute, it could even be things like or not things where like starting a group of people that are, starting a club for a group of people that have the same passion as you or starting some like you do not even or going to the next rally in your community. I know everything is kind of closed and slowed down because of Covid but once everything opens up, there are always constantly people and I have been part of those that will come into communities and there will be rallies. So, look at those rallies in your communities. There are BLM protest occurring so you can also look at those close to your community. You do not even have to be like most people think, “Oh, I have to be the best speaker,” which is what people say is a road block. It is not involved, but you can do things like you can be an artist. There are people that took pictures, like Gordon Parks and raised awareness about poverty. There are people that wrote poetry and books, such as my Maya Angelou. There are just all these people. There are people that sing like Motown and Stevie Wonder and everybody. So there, you can find your talent.

John: I love it. That is so beautifully said. Mom, what do you think? Arndrea, what about what just happened? We just now for the first time in our lives have a woman vice president, a woman of color, both which is really great. Not only is she half-black, I think but she is also half-Southeast Asian, if I am not…

Arndrea: That is right.

John: Being a mom, being a parent of especially your daughter, which both you and I are, what does that mean to you and what dreams do you have for this little amazing 12 year old sitting next to you that the world is the limit for? I mean it is limitless. The sky is so big right now.

Arndrea: Well, we are getting ready to. We are in the midst of Black History Month and we are getting ready to go into Women’s History Month.

John: Good point.

Arndrea: I think it cannot be stated enough how much it means, representation is so important. Regardless of your political beliefs or aspirations, we all have to celebrate any time history is made in a positive way. So, if you are a woman or you love a woman or you have a female, I mean, there is no way that you cannot be ecstatic and proud of this moment. To live history is it truly is extraordinary. It really is inspirational because when you can see yourself is one thing, I think all parents and teachers and advisers are we always want to and telling our kids about the best that they can be and pushing them or stretching them and that is very important. It is so important to see yourself, which is in a lot of ways what Black Lives Matter, the BLM movement is about. Certainly it is about equality and being treated equally. It also is having a seat at the table at every part of society. You can see that representation there. It really means something. So, I could go on and on about how wonderful of a moment in time. When you really think about it, America, we were behind the curve and that I am celebrating where we are now. But when you think all over the world there have been going back at least 50 years if not more, on every continent but ours, a female in a place of power rather as actually the head of state or the vice president. So the fact that we, so yes, I am celebrating, I am happy, and there is also a part of me that wants to say, “What took so long?”

John: Right. Yolanda, I know this answer will change over time and evolve, but you are so well-spoken and you are such a big thinker already at 12 years old. If you can tell me, “John, here is how the next years ahead of me are going to go.” What is your dream? Is your dream to become a lawyer and an activist and then a politician one day or to become a writer? Or what are you thinking of today when you dream your big dreams about your future?

Yolanda: So, you mean in a more global basis or what I want to do when I grow up personally?

John: Both. Whatever you are thinking about. I want to know what is on your mind.

Yolanda: So well, actually when you said that, I actually do the first thing that you said. When I get older in terms of working in jobs, in my career, I actually do want to be an activist and a lawyer.

John: But both of my children are lawyers. I said be a lawyer first and then you can do anything. My daughter is a women’s rights lawyer or employment lawyer. So I am huge supporter of that, Yolanda. I think that is a great choice. That is just me. I do not know what Mom and Dad said but do not say anything. I did not say anything.

Yolanda: Well, my mom and dad and this is what I love about my family. They encouraged me to do anything that I feel like [crosstalk]

Arndrea: Your passion. What your call to find.

Yolanda: –I want to do. I am going to get back to the question. But they never forced me to become an activist or they never said, “Okay, you have to be an activist.” I kind of just followed it and picked it up myself. So and I think that is what many people misinterpret about activists and children whose parents were maybe activists or whose parents were in a career. So even at a young age, my parents felt, well, now Yolanda we are very proud of you. However, we know that if you do not want to do this, there are other ways you can contribute. We want you to find something that you feel happy about and it is fine. They always motivate me to help and even or in some way help the community and stuff and just help the world. But my vision and my hope and not a hope but one day that is there will be no poverty, especially in this country. The wealthiest nation, would you say the most fortunate? I do not know, but one of the wealthiest nations and you are constantly and maybe now, I leave the house less because of Covid. But I am constantly even before then or even when I go out of the house now in our downtown area of Atlanta and just everywhere. But especially when I am running errands with my parents and stuff and in the downtown area there is constantly always homeless people. It is just heartbroken to see that. So the fact even a few days ago for a big trip we were in Mexico and we were seeing there is some kids. It was a weekend. However, and this was for human rights work, but when we were going there there were children and even though it was during the weekend and stuff, it looked like they were not going and many of them do not go to school because they have to support their families. It is just heartbroken that they cannot finish their education. Maybe they want to be a doctor one day and that requires your first, how many years are we in school, mom?

Arndrea: A lot.

Yolanda: Well, the first consecutive.

Arndrea: That is senior, it is kindergarten through 12th grade.

Yolanda: Yes. Well, it could be different there and even kids here it is common people, you just do not see it as much but your 13 consecutive years of school. If you do not have those years you either have to stay back or and that can be very challenging, especially if the years keep on stacking. If it is one year, you will have to stay one grade, which I guess is that is not as bad. But say, if you have to work for four years straight, imagine all the work and all the school you have to catch up on or five years or six years. There is some kids that may have gone, maybe they dropped out of school in third grade. Even now as they are my age, they still have to work to support their family because taxes has risen or for various other reasons and especially because of Covid all the businesses have gone out of business.

John: Got it pretty lucky, huh?

Yolanda: Yeah, so poverty and of course, I do not need as much as the summary or for this one, gun violence and just abolishing that and even just guns in our society in general. I was shocked. I think a few months ago I learned this that it is easier to purchase a weapon or a gun than it is to get a driver’s license and that is scary. The reason why police, well, there is other reasons why, but one of the reasons why police carry guns is because people carry them. The fact that and this kind of this segues to my next issue. Not just our criminal justice system or not just with just racial injustice like many people in general like many people think. It is the same thing in all countries like many people think that after segregation here, after a Apartheid in South Africa, racism just disappeared like hell. Yeah, just disappeared and that is not true. It is unfortunate it is still here. It is not as severe, I would say. It has gotten much much better. However, they are still far to go and nobody should feel scared to go to places like black kids. Like I said, I saw a commercial the other day and the mom was or not even the other day. It was a few months ago. The mom was talking about how she had a black son who got great grades in school and instead of talking about college decisions when he comes home and I think my parents have seen this one too, she has to kind of talk about or go over with him how to even protect yourself, about how to present yourself in a certain way so you are not seen as a threat to our communities. She is like, “I should be talking about with him about colleges and stuff and it is sad.”

John: That is crazy. It is a different dialogue that is happening in some households comparatively speaking, which just does not make sense in 2021. Arndrea, talk a little bit about the Drum Major Institute, God-willing we are going to get through this crisis. Science is going to win, we are going to get vaccinated. What do you want to do? What is your goal and vision with the Drum Major Institute rest of this year and the years to come?

Arndrea: Well, our goal is to build that coalition of conscience that we talked about. Martin’s father and mother worked on the eradication of what Dr. King called the triple evils of racism, poverty, and violence. What we hope to do is to help eradicate those triple evils through the embracing of the values of peace, justice, and equity. So we are in the process of retooling and expanding our work but it is around those three pillars. So, it will be through public awareness and education so that if you are an activist or if you are a stay-at-home mom or you are an elected official, you can come to the Drum Major Institute and or– Dad, so I thank you. Or if you are a stay at home, Dad, thank you, Yolanda. Or an educator, but you can come to this interactive and Innovative website and get tools and techniques and curriculum to implement in your life. So public awareness or lifting up people in their communities that are doing great work because I think sometimes we think that the problem is too large or what can I do. So we are looking at finding Drum Majors for justice in communities and lifting up those voices so that people can see how they can make an impact. Also with that work, you solidify their work and hopefully connecting people in various ways. We also will are working on public policy. The first two would be the John Lewis voting rights restoration, Voting Rights Act to make it easier right to vote. So we are working on that as well as the George Floyd Policing Act. So we are working on public policy laws and legislations that lift up again the banner of peace, justice, or equity.

John: You have what? You have lawyers and other activists working underneath you back in DC and other places to try to push these initiatives forward, I take it.

Arndrea: Well, what we truly believe in is partnership because we really believe that in order a democratize the King legacy is it is really us all connecting with each other. So we partner with organizations or attorneys or groups that are doing the work because if we can also, one of our fundamental beliefs is if we could use whatever influence we have or to lift up all of the people to help solidify the work in various ways and also shed the light on and acknowledge the work. That is how we, through creating partnerships and collaborations both with us and with each other is how we again is one way of working to build a coalition of conscience and also getting to creating the beloved community.

John: For our listeners and viewers out there to find Arndrea and all of her colleagues and partners at the Drum Major Institute, you go to www.drummajorinst, I-N-S-T, dot org. Yolanda, I watched you at one of your rallies and I saw your Chan and I just wanted to go over this because I want to break it down with you. Spread the word, have you heard all across the nation? We are going to be a great generation. Walk me through that.

Yolanda: So, it is kind of like, how we put? It is like not even a gossip, not even a rumor. But how do I put?

Arndrea: An actual fact.

Yolanda: Yes, sure. Like a healthy gossip and have you heard that there is going to be a word and that we are going to be the greatest generation that will get to the promised land? We are going to be the great generation not just with recognition but we will be the great generation because we will reach the land that we once dreamed of and it will become a reality. It is spread all across the nation and really in this lens and in general all across the world or I could put all across the nations.

John: I showed you this when we were off the air earlier. This was my book that my mom got me among many many other books of great leaders in American history. This was my favorite book. This is the original book. This is 50-something years old now and I often think of your grandfather. When you were talking about how young you are and when you started when you were 7, I still am shocked when I think about how much your grandfather and your father-in-law, Arndrea, actually accomplished because he passed when he was 39. He was so young. So, your youth and you starting so young and how we overlooked in many ways youth. I think focusing in our youth again is so important and I think your words of spreading the word and betting on this next great generation, I think is more true than ever before and I am so glad you are spreading that word and I want to leave it now to both of you to have a last word. Both of you will take a turn before we have to say goodbye. The only thing I want to say before we have to say goodbye, I just need you to make me one promise that one day when we are both all three of us are vaccinated, when I come to Atlanta on business we get to meet one day and have either a cup of coffee or something like that together.

Arndrea: You got it. That is an easy one.

Yolanda: Well, I do not drink coffee. I am a tea drinker.

John: Well, we could drink tea, we could drink cocoa together. it is a great excuse for me to drink some cocoa with you then. I am cool with anything.

Arndrea: No, I will be having coffee. I am a coffee drinker.

Yolanda: A big coffee drinker.

John: All right, that is good. But I want you both to have the last word because the show is all about you and where you are coming from and I want you both to take turns and before we sign off and I want your words to be the ones the last words that our listeners hear.

Arndrea: Would you like me to go first?

Yolanda: Yes.

Arndrea: You need a moment to think.

Yolanda: I do not want to give you the book. I do not want to give it to you.

Arndrea: Well, what I hope is that we have sparked a conversation for your listeners to have both with themselves and with the people in their lives. I want your listeners to really know that we all can indeed create the world in which we have the courage to believe in. It is people throughout the ages have always continued to come together and push forward for more inclusion, for more expansion and always no matter what it looked like, no matter how many challenges that had to be overcome in the end, love and truth always wins. If love and truth have not won, then the story is not yet over.

John: That is beautiful. Thank you. Yolanda, I am going to give you the last words and then I am going to give a couple of advertisements for your organizations before we say goodbye. But I want you to have the last words here.

Yolanda: Okay, but I would like to say that and I have repeated this for the young people. You can make change. This is not a adult issue. This is not a one standard issue. If you do not believe us, if you do not believe me, you can look at the Civil Rights Movement. The young people, we are like the mascots and even you were mentioning how when my grandfather was assassinated, he was only 39 years old. So, he was not too old?

John: Too old. Because you keep looking at me.

Yolanda: No, [crosstalk]

John: He is older than you, not that old.

Yolanda: No, I am looking at you to say is that considered…

Arndrea: Is that considered old?

Yolanda: No, I am not saying he was old, but I am saying that he is not too old. He was not too old himself. When you think about it, the movement started when he was in his late 20s, early 30s. I would like to say is like I said, be inspired. Now, we have something big which is there are all these accounts on social media trying to raise awareness and especially now I feel social media has became even more important. Well, right now we are talking through a social media, but even social media such as Instagram and TikTok and I do not really know if kids really have Facebook.

Arndrea: You have heard about Facebook?

Yolanda: Facebook and Twitter. You use Twitter to [crosstalk]

John: Yeah, you are right.

Yolanda: The news. They use Facebook. I do not think a lot of kids do not have as much Facebook likely. Facebook is one of the older social media. Okay, well, I know who is that. Well, I am not trying to underestimate it or anything. But just use your social media platforms and use that to look for accounts, there are influencers there dedicating their platform, dedicating their followers to put great and even looking at these big influencers like on TikTok and stuff and you will see that they will put links on their accounts like, “Hey, sign this petition.” So, what I can say is that you can be a big contributor. So maybe you may not have too much time for clubs. There is a site called change.org you can just go in there and my friends will do this and put it on group chats. Like hey, we saw this. They do not make the petition, but I guess they go on there and they maybe spend X amount of minutes signing petitions that they think could help. You could put on your group chats with friends. Hey, can you sign these petitions? Or just going on, I do not know, three times, once a day even, just signing petitions even if it is for five minutes. I do not know too much about it, but I have heard of this extension that you can get on your Google Chrome, maybe on other things as well. But you can get it on your computer and I think every time you open the tab or something, a tree will be planted. So there is all types of who Google stuffs about that and I know especially for those tech savvies out there that will be great for them.

John: Yolanda and Arndrea, both of you, I just want to ask you come back on this show whenever you want to come back and platform any other issues you want. You both are a joy to have on. It was my honor. This is the first time in 13 years I had a mother and daughter and it is not going to be the last and I want you both to come back on together again. For our listeners and viewers and readers, to find Arndrea and to find Yolanda and their dad of course, Martin Luther King III, please go to the Drum Major Institute, drummajor I-N-S-T dot org or MLKing the number three dot com. Both of you have inspired me and our listeners and our viewers today. Both of you have given me more hope that I have had in a long time and both of you are a joy and a pleasure and I am so grateful to both of you for making the world a better place. Thank you for joining us on the Impact podcast today.

Yolanda: Thank you and we will certainly be back.

Arndrea: There you have it. Where is that generation? There you go.

John: I love your certainty and I love your energy. That just makes my day. So thank you both and we are going to have you back and we are going to meet in person one day too as soon as we are all vaccinated.

Arndrea: Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you for everything that you do in your role, both with your business and through this podcast. So, we thank you for doing your part in creating the beloved community.

Yolanda: Thumbs up emoji. No, the heart emoji.

Arndrea: The heart, okay.

John: I like that heart emoji. Like Mom says, we can all serve and we just have to serve in the place that we are coming from so she has right.

John: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking engine revolutionizing the talent booking industry. With hundreds of athletes, entrepreneurs, speakers, and business leaders, Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent for your next event. For more information, please visit letsengage.com.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by Trajectory Energy Partners. Trajectory Energy Partners brings together landowners, electricity users, and communities to develop solar energy projects with strong local support. For more information on how Trajectory is leading the solar revolution, please visit trajectoryenergy.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. I am so excited and honored to have with us today, Tricia Conroy. She is not only my friend. She is the executive director of the Electronic Manufacturers Recycling Management Company, better known as MRM. Welcome to the Impact Podcast, Tricia.

Tricia Conroy: Thank you so much, John. It is great to be here and I really appreciate the opportunity and it is fun to talk to you. I wish we were face-to-face [crosstalk] but it is great to hear your voice. Thanks for having me.

John: And this is the next best thing. We are living in this COVID period that [crosstalk] is still tragic and strange at the same time. You are in Minneapolis. I am in Fresno, but we will be together soon. Science seems to be winning and that is good news for all of us here and around the world. Tricia, for those who have not had the chance to get to know you as I have over the years, you have a fascinating background besides being one of my favorite people in terms of education at Stanford and at Columbia University, two may be of the greatest institutions of education in America, can you share a little bit of your background leading up to joining MRM, and how that went, and how you got to get to MRM?

Tricia: Sure, thanks, John. So I am a native Minnesotan, and then I went to this like you said the sunny skies of California, but went east for my graduate program, and stayed east. I started my career working in the Washington DC area. So I did environmental consulting work for ETA. I worked for the Congressional Budget Office, but like many Minnesotans, I just wanted to get home. So after a lot of years away I came back to Minnesota, worked a little bit on environmental issues here, and happened to write the first report on electronics issues for the Minnesota Legislature way back and so from that electronics recycling just really started to grow here in Minnesota, and I think I just happen to be in a place where that industry kind of grew around me. I was a consultant in the area and I knew I got to know the people at Best Buy and I came on board to help them plan and start their program and then things just took off from there. So I have been head of MRM since I think 2009. I became the head of it and it was it has been a great experience, and as you know, we all started with a handful of spots and a handful of locations and things have grown and we now operate around across the country. And electronics recycling is what I do. I do not think you know when you go talk at the career day my message to people is you just never know where life is going to take you and you want to stay open to meeting new people and new issues and I never would have thought that I would have a career in paying attention to electronics recycling but it has been fun and fascinating and it changes all the time. So it has been a great ride.

John: Well, you know you have been such an inspiration to me, Tricia, because truly, helping to write the legislation in Minnesota is literally the genesis of electronic recycling in America.

Tricia: Yes, Minnesotans like to be modest, but it was the first state to pass a law that required electronic manufacturers to set up their own programs and that was different and there were states that were ahead of Minnesota but you just signed up for a state program or like you guys in California you all pay a fee at the cash register and that funds recycling. In Minnesota, the state legislature wanted these schools met, set them forth real clearly, and then told the manufacturers, “Hey. You make these things. It’s your responsibility to get it done.” And so that is when MRM was founded because these manufacturers had a job to do to comply with the Minnesota state law and they had to do it on their own, and so that is why MRM was founded to help do that. We really have been fortunate here to be around from the beginning and watch things grow and develop.

John: And for those listeners who want to find MRM, I am on your great website now. It is www.mrmrecycling.com. It is a great website. There is a lot going on there. You have a lot of great brands that you represent. But before we get into that, share with our listeners who do not yet know about electronics recycling. A, you and I both know that electronic waste is the fastest-growing solid waste stream in the world still today even since we have met all those years ago, but why keep it out of landfills and why really care about how it is handled when they come to their end of life?

Tricia: That is such a good question, and I think you know, it has changed through the years, to be honest. [crosstalk] You see a gold piece that was in your house years ago and your grandparent’s basement, they had a lot of lead in them and that was really the driving force initially, but as the product, that is one of the things we spend the most time on, is making sure that any of those old TVs are handled right. But there are lots of other materials, some that you want to ensure are not just thrown in a landfill for hazardous reasons others because there is a lot of value to them. You know if this you are one of the experts in it, but we need to be thinking about our planet. We need to be thinking about the overall footprint of all of our actions and electronics have all sorts of stuff that can be pulled out and used in new materials, and we want to make sure that is happening. So it is a combination of keeping things that work well and make your electronics work for you and work keep you protected and but maybe are hazardous if they are dumped in the ground. We want to keep that out of a landfill, but we also want to get the resources to put to capture as much as we can to put into new products and not just throw away.

John: And back to the MRM story is you said, what year approximately was it founded?

Tricia: We were founded in 2007, right after that Minnesota law passed.

John: Right.

Tricia: And Panasonic, Sharp, and Toshiba were the three big TV manufacturers at that time and they founded the company to help manufacturers do recycling programs. You know this, John. We now work with about 50 manufacturers.

John: Wow.

Tricia: Help them with different makeups in different states not everyone works with us across the country.

John: Right.

Tricia: We have about 50 that are with us and there is not a single one that does not want to do the right thing, but they make electronics, they are not recyclers and so they need people like you they need people like us [crosstalk] to help them plan and coordinate and ensure that things are being done responsibly. So we were started in 2007 and we started just with the mission of figuring out that Minnesota law that I mentioned, the goal of was to bring manufactures together, to provide environmentally responsible recycling, and then it grew to provide opportunities for consumers across the country. So we have programs in all the states. We have regulatory programs in 20 States and then we have collection options across the country. So that is the real goal is to make sure that the manufacturers have someone thinking about their recycling while they work on producing the product.

John: You know, Tricia as you and I are so culturally aligned and DNA aligned in terms of environmentalism, and good practices, and mission-based work, is not it still incredible that in 2020, we do not have every state that has a landfill bin all[?] electronics? I always scratch my head about that, not only electronics by the way, bottle bills and things of that that never got real traction. I think there are only eleven bottle bills in America, but is not it still crazy that it is not banned in every state?

Tricia: It really is and if I could tell you how many phone calls we get, we run an eight hundred number that you can see on our website from out our options, and we get so many calls from places that do not have strong, that there is no mandate in their state and it is interesting. It is hard to believe particularly since increasingly, we have so many more electronics in our home and so consumers do not want to throw it out, right?

John: Right.

Tricia: And I think we have even been conditioned that on recycling but yes, it is pretty incredible, the difference but not everybody makes sure they are recycled. [crosstalk]

John: When I met you, Tricia, it was the fastest-growing solid waste stream in the world then, but just think about it, all these EV cars have become computers on wheels. The white goods now are having televisions or computers inside of them so they could tell us when there are no eggs in the refrigerator, and as you just pointed out, the incident of things are all electronic sets should be responsible to recycled, the Rings, the Alexas, the Nests, and all the other gadgets and the wearables that we have. So, there has been a huge proliferation of electronics and that just makes our job, I guess more sustainable and everything else, I do not know- the need for our work. But talk about the evolution though a little bit in terms of it is not just about the environment anymore part of what we do is also brand protection and also data protection. You want to share a little bit about the journey of the evolution of electronics recycling and how that has also changed as well?

Tricia: Sure. Thanks. That is absolutely true and if I would ask the listener to look around their home and think about the last 10 years, increasingly we have to think about data and electronics recycling because all sorts of things are smart [crosstalk] and they have all sorts of your data and so we started out really focused on big items, CRT, cathode-ray tubes, that powered those big TVs that had lead in them, and then over time then we had flat screens and they have a whole separate set of recycling issues and we want to capture the resources and boy the explosion of concern about data security has fundamentally changed the industry, I think, John and you guys have really led the way, but it is a real piece of what we look for and people are mindful of it. Frankly, consumers need to feel safe in their data security, businesses and even us right throwing out even our any peace. People do not just want to pitch it even. They want to have a home where they know the data will be safely destroyed. So that has been a real development that has fundamentally changed our industry and it has made I think we all have to get more sophisticated in recycling, right?

John: Right.

Tricia: I mean, I think it is a lot harder. You have to invest the resources to ensure that you have data safety [crosstalk].

John: Yeah, I agree. You know Tricia, we have a new administration coming in in January and they have already committed to resigning the Paris Accord. It seems as though from when you and I became friends that this whole issue of now it started as sustainability, and now it has become a circular economy. Now, the acronym ESG is being used a lot.

Tricia: Right.

John: It seems it is starting to reach a tipping point with the legacy activists like Jane Fonda out there doing her thing again on environmentalism, but then the youthful activists like Greta Thunberg [inaudible] also taking hold. Where are we now in this journey of sustainability in the United States? We know Europe was ahead of us. We know geographically challenged countries that are smaller landlocked areas like South Korea and Japan were also way ahead of us. Is America’s adoption of sustainability in ESG and circular economy here to stay and where do you see us going in the years ahead?

Tricia: Gosh, what a good question. I think you know we are in the United States, there will always be differences and people will always be on different sides of the coin, but there is no getting around the fact that climate is going to affect you, no matter what. Climate going to affect our business practices. It is going to affect us and I think because of that, because it is marching along, it is here to stay in the U.S. There is no way around it and even if it is not fully moving forward in government policy, maybe like we have seen the last few years, you still have corporate America moving forward on steps to ensure that circular economy is promoted, the climate change is on our minds, reducing the footprint of our products. So I think it is here to stay and I think there is just no way around the climates not affecting you and here, we have this little niche electronics recycling but there is not a manufacturer we work with. I am thinking about the impact of their product on climate and it is bubbling up like you said from the youth. They want to buy climate-friendly products. Every manufacturer we have talked to is thinking hard about reaching the consumer, responding to the consumer on a climate issue, and I am so thrilled to see this administration really stepping up their efforts on it and I know that our manufacturers have been quietly working away on making sure their products are as responsible as they can be. And I laugh, Gina McCarthy. I think I first encountered her as an electronics initiative years and years ago and now she is going to be the climate tsar. I mean things are just here to stay. The people have been thinking about it and working on it are just going to be moving forward regardless, and gosh, you cannot avoid it. Here in Minnesota, I think we are one of the more affected states. The moose up near Canada their whole habitats are changing already. It is here already and it is here to stay.

John: And in California, where I live here in Fresno, the fires were closer to us this summer than ever before, and literally, we had a month that every day you walked out of the house the sky was black and the [inaudible] was palpable not only on the street and on your cars, but literally in every breath that you took.

Tricia: Oh my goodness.

John: It was quite a feeling to live through that. For those listeners who just joined us, we have got Tricia Conroy. She is the Executive Director of MRM. To find MRM, Tricia, and her great colleagues, you could go to www.mrmrecycling.com. Tricia, you just mentioned the 50 great brands that you represent which are just, again, some of the most iconic brands in world history, Panasonic, Sharp, TCL, Hitachi, Sanyo, Polaroid, Funai, Toshiba, Hisense. That is just a couple of them. That is just a few of them. Talk a little bit about the importance now with the next generation coming behind us the millennials, the Zs, whatever they are being called now, the importance, they are voting with their pocketbooks, and they want to buy greener electronics that are made out of a certain percentage at least is made out of recycled material, whether it is the plastic, the metal, or other parts of their electronics. Share a little bit about how your constituents and how the brands that you represent, think about that.

Tricia: Absolutely. It is on their mind all the time and one of the things I was thinking about is a brand has to be nimble these days. I mean you have to be nimble and responsive and you were talking about how the industry has grown and changed I would say, when we started circular economy was not on anyone’s radar screen. [crosstalk] I mean we absolutely tried to recycle as much as possible, but without exception, the brands that we work for really want to think about how can we ensure that the material that we are recycling is available to put into new products, that we are ensuring that we are capturing as much as possible, and you at ERI, you guys have been leaders in some pilot projects and our colleagues over at HP and Dell have announced real initiatives to actually take the products from their product and get it back into their new material and even if that is not possible, our manufacturers want to reduce their energy use, use recycled content as much as they can in their products and we just have been laughing at the kids just drew are so much more. They are so informed. I think is one of the things I hear continually from the manufacturers we work with. They know what they want. They are talking to each other. They are researching and they have a really strong interest in the environment that we need to respond to. And so I think the efforts are just really serious to try to make sure we are ramping up all the ways we can in terms of our narrow band of recycling this little piece that we have.

John: Right.

Tricia: And it is feeding into the big corporate strategies on sustainability and reducing climate impact and just making sure we are getting as much use out of the product.

John: [crosstalk] It is a narrow band. That is a great way of terming it, but what I find with this narrow band, Tricia, and you tell me if this is something that you have realized as well. It is so intimate to all of our lives, our cell phones, our laptops, our desktops, our iPads, our wearables, that although it is a narrow band, it is still so close to our life that it is something that everyone has knowledge about and understanding about and is uses regularly just like eating and clothes. So to me, what I have seen in terms of trends in the last ten years, the three biggest ideas that recycling concepts that cities or municipalities or states even attack are around electronics, food composting, and clothes recycling apparel and as this happens, those are the three things that are closest to us as human beings.

Although it is narrow, it is still one of the most critical elements of our life who really walks around without their cell phone or their wearable, or their desktop, or iPad, or another type of tablet. It has really become part of us now, so I think it is here to stay in terms of the work that we do and continue to work that we are going to have to do because they may be the electronics have gotten smaller, but there is more of them.

Tricia: So many more and we turn them over faster.

John: Right.

Tricia: I mean there is something new every month that you want to get your hands on and play with them and see what is up there and it is just I am with you It is everywhere. It is part of everyone’s life. So it is a narrow band but it is a piece of the overall impact that we are all having because we are using so much more. We buy more all the time, but I think we are holding them all the time, but people want to do the right thing with them. And that I do not think they want to just pitch them out. When it is right on your body, it is more upfront. When it is in your house or when it is everywhere, the top of mind to make sure that you are not just pitching it out for a lot of people we hear, they just instinctively do not want to throw it in the trash, but we got to find solutions for them that make sense and that are easy to use and make sure their materials are being handled but make it easy for them to also get to the proper end of life.

John: So let us talk about that. So as a universal truth, you and I know people are good and we want to drink cleaner water, breathe cleaner air, and leave the world a better place than we found it. What are your thoughts for our listeners out there both here in the United States and around the world how they can become part of the electronic waste solution and not just think about anymore, not just fret, not just store their old electronics in their office drawers or their home closets or attics or garages, how can we all become part of this greater solution?

Tricia: What a good question. Globally, you pointed out at the top of this broadcast that other countries are way ahead of the U.S. and then there is a difference in States, I think we need to speak up and ask for the services that we need to be able to recycle these things and in the way that Greta Thunberg you mentioned are speaking up about the bigger issues. We got to start in our house and what is in our house, a lot of electronics. So we need to speak up and be vocal about wanting to see requirements that these be recycled and then allow flexibility in how it gets done to respond to the needs of the consumer so that it is realistic that they are going to recycle. I was just thinking we just launched, I think you had Jonathan King of TCL on, and they launched this big take back and we did it in COVID intentionally in a really different model that you guys were helpful on. So it would be safe. So people would be comfortable and so that we are bringing it to more locations and we have to be responsive to consumers’ wants. You got to make it easy and you got to make it possible for them to recycle.

John: You know, MRM is such an important part of that ecosystem in terms of manufacturers and connecting these great brands and the consumers with responsible recyclers around the United States. It is such an important role that you play, Tricia, and you have been an inspiration to me since I met you years ago, too many years that I do not even remember anymore, but many, many moons ago, and your work is so important. I want to leave you with the last words on anything else you want to share with our listeners before we sign off for today, and again, it is just so important that you got the MRM story out and we give your voice today because it is just the work that you are doing is so, so important and critical.

Tricia: Well thanks, John, and you and I have been an invaluable partner to making sure that electronics are recycled responsibly in the U.S. and now around the world, really. I think what I want to leave people with MRM, we pride ourselves on being leaders in the U.S. but we are behind-the-scenes group. We want to support the manufacturers that are doing these great things. And like we said, electronics recycling is one piece of their big thinking[?] on a sustainability strategy in circular economy. I just urged folks to speak up and ask their local governments, they want to recycling, they want to see it, they wanted it easier, and know that manufacturers are actively working in hearing you on making their products environmentally responsible and we are proud to be just one piece of their overall big picture sustainability goals.

John: Well, Tricia, I am so grateful for the time you took to spend with us today. For our listeners out there to find Tricia, her colleagues, and the great brand that she works with, MRM, please go to www.mrmrecycling.com. They do great work. They make the world a better place. So do you Tricia Conroy and I am grateful for you as my friend and as an inspiration, thank you for joining us on the Impact Podcast today.

Tricia: Thank you, John, It is a pleasure. Always great to talk to you. Thank you so much.

John: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by the Marketing Masters. The Marketing Masters is a boutique marketing agency offering website development and digital marketing services to small and medium businesses across America. For more information on how they can help you grow your business online, please visit themarketingmasters.com.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. This is a very special edition of the Impact podcast because we are so lucky and honored to have my good friend, longtime friend, Tom Szaky with us. He is the Founder and CEO of TerraCycle. Welcome to the Impact podcast, Tom.

Tom Szaky: John, thanks so much for having me.

John: Oh, it is just an honor. You are just truly one of the rock stars of the sustainability ESG and circular economy world. We have known each other now for almost fifteen years.

Tom: Wow.

John: And you have been doing it since the day I met you. You were just one of those big huge vision, unbelievably committed, hyper-focus individuals, who just seem to never lose their way and you have been an inspiration to me and thousands of people around the world since that time I met you. And it just truly an honor to have you on now because I think as you and I were chatting a little bit off offline, we are about to enter some really interesting and hopefully exciting times.

Tom: Yes, I think you are absolutely right. Well, first, thank you for that really kind introduction. I think it is amazing where sustainability is going and I have been doing this for twenty years now and it is always been an issue, but it is moving from sort of let us find some efficiencies and bank some cash and call that sustainability to really people waking up to the environmental crisis we are in whether it is climate change, the mass extinction we are living through, you name it. I think it has even been heightened with the pandemic we are living through. COVID is the first time we have really seen our impact on the planet as we sort of lowered our production and emission levels down, animals retreating tour I have not been before. And now, of course, as well with the new administration that I think will be taking these issues a bit more seriously here in the US. It is absolutely the time to be thinking about how to deploy business in a way that drives impact in addition to profit and I think the world is very much ready for it as I think our investors and stakeholders like team members and customers and so on and so forth.

John: You know, Tom, it is always fascinating to me and to our viewers and listeners to understand what made you. Who made you? I believe you were raised in Canada?

Tom: That is right. Yes. Originally, I am from Hungary. I was born in Budapest in ’82 and that is only really relevant because it was communist then. And what would the story goes sort of an ’86, Chernobyl happened when I was four and that was really nearby and the effect on us was really that the borders destabilize, my parents were able to leave, sort of as political refugees if you will and we sort of hopped around Europe seeking asylum, finally landed in Canada. I got there when I was seven. So, I effectively grew up in Canada and it came down to the college in New Jersey and then have been living in New Jersey ever since. And so, for me, it took went from communism to capitalism and there are virtues in both. Here in America, we like to sort of shit on communism. Of course, I am communist, up to shit on capitalist. But I think there are virtues in both. Both are there are positives and negatives. To me, I fell in love with entrepreneurship really because of the contrast. Because entrepreneurship is all about you have a great idea, you work really hard and you can create anything you want, and that is really maybe the embodiment if you will of the American dream. But, and I say here is the but, I remember this so clearly. The first class of Princeton was Economics101 and the professor gets up on stage and says, “What is the purpose of a business?” And the answer she was — it is a really appropriate opening question but the answer she was looking for was profit to shareholders as the purpose of business, and that is how it is taught and I get it. I am not anti-profit but to me, I would say, profit is more an indicator of health. If you are profitable, you are going to flourish, grow and live for a long time, be healthy. And if you are not profitable, it is like being sick, you are going to shrivel and die at some point. You cannot be unprofitable forever. So, it is more to me like an indicator of health, but that is not the reason of being. The reason of being is like what do we could do? What are we create? How do we leave society or the world better? And I think that is really what impact business is about like how does it impact the world and then can it be called a business? Can it do so in a financially sustainable and ideally financially flourishing capacity?

John: When you were growing up in Canada, was the environment top of mind in your household or in the society or community you were living in back then?

Tom: So, Canada is where I think my love of the environment really grew. My parents are both doctors. I would say very certain normal upbringing. There is a lot of camping in Canada. There is a huge connection to nature. Canada is mostly nature and a very few people relatively speaking. And so, there is a lot of time spent going out into the wilderness and really getting an appreciation for nature, which actually when I came down to the States, I felt that even more because how America was not as much like that. When we went camping in Canada, you take a tent in a canoe and you go out for a week. Then when we went camping in the US, you go to a parking lot and you plugged in. I am exaggerating but not really, you know what I mean?

John: Right.

Tom: And to me, that even heightened it more and I was like I missed it a bit. So, it is always been something that I have been very passionate about, but really coming out of Canada I think is where it really hit home.

John: You know, Tom, you are so unique in that twenty years you have been at it and you are only thirty-eight. The fascinating and fun part for guys like me is to see how you are going to continue to change the world in the future. We are going to talk a little bit about the future later, but going back to TerraCycle, the founding of TerraCycle at such a young age, where was your epiphany? Where is your aha moment? And how did you create TerraCycle out of that aha moment?

Tom: Yes, absolutely. At first, it was a series of things. So, in the beginning, I fell in love with entrepreneurship in high school. I started my first company when I was fourteen. It was a web design company. But really for the selfish reasons, fame and fortune, which comes with entrepreneurship but not benevolent reasons. Then as I sort of had this thinking around the role of profit in my first year of university, I started seeking an idea that would be profitable but also purposeful first actually and then could you do the purpose of a profit, and I was looking for this. The actual inspirational moment was my friends in Montreal who had gone to school. They started growing some pot plants in their basement. They could not make the plants work. They finally started taking organic waste from their kitchen like kitchen scraps and feeding it to worms and taking the worm poop and feeding it to the pot plants and miraculously the plants were doing incredibly well. And it lit this lightbulb off for me when I heard about this and then later saw it this exploration around garbage. Garbage really fascinated me academically because it is such a weird topic. Here is some sort of neat fact to it. Everything in your office sort of mine here, everything we possess in a world where we pride ourselves on possessions will one day with no exception belong legally to a garbage company. Is that wild? And I mean everything, not just like the paper on our desk but the carpet, the wall, everything. And if you really think about it, in a relatively short period of time. For how big that is as an idea. What industry can you point to that says legally will own everything one day. It is also the least innovative industry per dollar of revenue and enjoys.

John: Wow.

Tom: Isn’t that wild? And a big part of it is it is an industry that literally it is shit, it is poop, it is smelly, it is crap. It is all this stuff. It is almost the butt of many jokes. If you do not study hard you will be a garbage man. And so, it is amazing. It has a high purpose to solve. It touches absolutely everything and there is no innovation. It is like the blue ocean, everywhere you go, you can create new things and challenge models. I have been able to do this for so long because I get the experience of a serial entrepreneur but staying in the same gig because it is an infinite playground, and that to me is incredibly stimulating and then you get this huge overlay that it is incredibly purposeful at the same time.

John: So, you now got the whole worm in the pot plants growing, where did TerraCycle fit in and where was the aha moment that you can both change the world on this infinite playground but make a profit at the same time?

Tom: Also very pragmatically, TerraCycle started quite literally as a worm poop company like the idea that “Oh, I am going to do that. That is great.” That is how we first met, right?

John: Right. That is right.

Tom: TerraCycle was actually EarthCycle and the logo of TerraCycle when I originally drew it was supposed to be a worm. It is really was a worm poop company and that is how we began. We said, “Let us make consumer products out of waste, taking worm poop, liquefying it, packaging it in used soda bottles, that whole thing, and then started getting it into major retail. Home Depot, Target, Walmart, and all the big suspects. That is what we were for the first three or four years in our history and took it to about from literally college dorm room to about six million in revenue. We had this big sort of moment, a huge structural shift at that time where we asked ourselves, “Are we accomplishing our mission which we had set at eliminating the idea of waste by making products out of waste?” and we realized the answer is unfortunately no. No, because if you are going to be a product company, your business hero is the product and then you are going to try to make the very best product, which means even if it is technically waste, you are going to choose the very best waste and we even had like scientist choosing this organic waste but not those organic ways to feed the worms. Yes, we were packaging in used soda bottles but we were choosing bottles that still looked really good, not crushed. That was definitely never going to touch dirty diapers or cigarette butts or really difficult things. So, we said, “Look, we have to fundamentally shift our business materially to make the business hero not the finished product but the garbage.” And that took about a one-year transformation but we effectively shut down the whole worm poop business, which was at the time, not bad like a six million dollar business and nothing [inaudible].

John: [inaudible] the vision to shut down.

Tom: Yes, and do this transformation into what we are today which is a company that helps make things that are not recyclable recyclable, made from recycled materials, and in the end reusable. And that was actually a very challenging but important shift, but it allowed the company to grow significantly in scale. We are now national in twenty countries around the world with the teams all over the planet working with just about every major brand in the world and doing these sort of big transformations, helping recycle like take everything, dirty diapers with Pampers and Holland to cigarette butts in Canada to you name it, hundreds of waste streams and then even help them reinvent their products to be entirely reusable and so on. But that transformation was very important and linked centrally to “Are we going to be able to fulfill our purpose with the tactics?” and we realized that the tactic of worm poop would not do it.

John: And what today if you were, to sum up, I know you have iterated TerraCycle brilliantly over the years. As you stand today, what is your core mission if you and I run on an elevator together and I would say, “Hey, what are you doing?” You say, “I got TerraCycle.” and I said, “What is TerraCycle do?” for our listeners and viewers who have not been exposed to it yet?

Tom: Yes. Absolutely. So, TerraCycle is an innovative mission-driven waste management company with a purpose still, the same purpose to eliminate the idea of waste. And we have three divisions that allow this to happen effectively moving products from being linear, the take-make-waste to fundamentally circular. And so, the first division asked the question, “Is that object recyclable today?” and if it is not, then we set up national platforms to make it recyclable typically funded by the manufacturers, the retailers or a community or something along those lines, and we do that at scale for hundreds and hundreds of ways. Then the second division asked the question, “Can that object be made from waste?” and then we help companies from P&G to make their shampoo bottles from ocean plastic all the way to Unilever to make their deodorant from rock and roll festival waste and so on and so forth. Then our third division which operates under the Loop brand says, “Can we go one step further?” Instead of a recycling base circular economy where the best thing to do is make it from recycled materials product and make sure it is recyclable, we try to shift to reuse spaced circular economy and that is what Loop is, it is like a global reuse platform that we are working with clients from McDonald’s and Burger King, all the way to almost every major CPG company in the world who are making now their products or their packages in fully reusable packaging forms. Think your Haagen-Dazs ice cream now in reusable stainless steel to your McDonald’s coffee cup in reusable high-end plastic, and then when you are done with the product, we Loop, are the waste management function of reuse. So, we take your dirt, sort them out, return deposits, but then clean them instead of say shred them and melt them so that they can be used again. And that is effectively what TerraCycle is all about.

John: Three divisions. For our listeners and viewers who just joined us, we are so honored to have with us today Tom Szaky. He is the Founder and CEO of TerraCycle. To find Tom and his colleagues and the great work that they do, please go to www.terracycle.com or www.loopstore.com, which is what we are just talking about. And we are going to talk about more of that later. Also, if you want to learn more about Tom, he has three books out but here are two of them. These are great books. Outsmarting Waste which I have read, and the Future of Packaging. These are two great books. If you are interested in getting involved in the sustainability or circular economy revolution and being the next Tom Szaky, read these books because I will tell you what? So much of the information you need to know is here right now. You know, Tom, you talked about twenty countries and I know you travel a lot. I travel a lot for the business that we are both in. You know what is fascinating is both of you and I got in the industry before Al Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize for Inconvenient Truth, sustainability was not a big thing here in the United States. In Europe, it was big because those countries are geographically challenged in terms of size and they just could not be a throwaway society in terms of Germany and the UK and Italy and France, the same thing when we go to South Korea and Japan. Beautiful countries that really had this generationally built into their DNA. Now, I feel like you and I have hung in there long enough and that we have reached the tipping point in the United States. Am I looking through the world through rose-colored glasses or do you feel the same way? Are we at that tipping point and is circular economy behavior sustainability here to stay and grow in the United States generationally speaking?

Tom: I definitely feel exactly what you are describing. And so, yes, the answer I would believe is absolutely yes now. With that said, Europe is leading the way especially Western Europe with an epicenter of being probably France, Germany, UK, really leading the way. And then absolutely right, rich dense countries have intrinsically a bigger issue to contend with like Japan or other countries like that, but North America is really waking up. I would pinpoint it probably the late 2017 or early 2018, at least for garbage, for different topics like energy, it came a bit earlier, but in the world of waste, it was right around late 2017 or early 2018 when the world really moved from being garbage is a problem to garbage is a crisis. Maybe earmarked by or in a landmarks sort of being the turtle had straw up its nose trending on social media, all the way to David Attenborough’s blue planet too, there has different sort of straws that could have broke the proverbial camel’s back. And then from there, we had Beretta emerge, a lot of young activists who are really brilliantly speaking up, and it has not gone away. And I think COVID is actually even created an opportunity to accentuate it and we are seeing that now manifest in the more traditional areas. Companies in our world, consumer product good companies, or retailers that were sort of flirting with sustainability are getting much deeper into it. Investors are putting way more resource that looks like against impact investing and upping their commitment into impact categories. It is probably driven by investors asking them to or looking for funds that are more impact-focused than traditionally focused. And this is also a big part of it is look at what is happening out there in California, burned down multiple times. Australia, Brazil, if you look at global fires, all the way to the visibility we have on the amount of plastics that are in our drinking water and polluting our oceans. It is very a clear effect of climate change. So, I think this is also because the world is struggling and we are now seeing that more clearly than we ever did before.

John: You know, I know recently you deservedly raise another twenty-five million dollars. Talk a little bit about where that money is going to go and what you envision of growth for the months and years to come?

Tom: Yes, absolutely. So, in 2020, we actually raised two times twenty-five, we raised a total of fifty. So, twenty-five million was raised for TerraCycle US and then another twenty-five was raised for Loop. And, yes, so we did effectively, I think technically just under fifty million in the capital last year. And we are now actually in the middle of raising another big round of about a hundred and fifty million that were in the middle of for this year for the whole enterprise. So, we are in a pretty bullish growth mode. Now, the good news is we have been profitable for a while now. We are not a start-up. This might you call as a growth company and we are about just under five hundred team members and so on and so forth. But it is because we know that we can grow significantly faster than just what our profits would allow us to reinvest and there is a lot of appetites to do this. So, for example, the capital we raised under TerraCycle, we actually did it under what is called the Regulation A offering for TerraCycle US. So, with the file with the SCC but we are allowed to then raised in a crowdfunding type model. So, while we had some bigger checks, six thousand investors came in to make up that round which is great because we engage about a quarter-billion people in our programs. So, a lot of the folks who interact with us became investors in a little small. The minimum investment was like seven hundred bucks and that allows us to really grow our US operations. So, we are doing that in really three key ways. One is boosting our existing business units, getting more salespeople out there faster, strengthening them by bringing in more capabilities and optimization then thinking about brand new innovations around the topics that we already focus on. How do we think about collecting and recycling the waste in very different ways? Whether it is R&D innovations, we are doing a big project on chemical recycling or solvent-based recycling, all the way to going after sort of new verticals and new areas we have not gone after before. And then the other is also looking at acquiring companies. We acquired a company two years ago out of Chicago that does light bulb recycling formerly called AirCycle and now called TerraCycle Regulated Waste. We are now in diligence on a couple of other acquisitions we are looking at. So, we are in this mode where we have an appetite as well to bring companies into our ecosystem and show them how we think and help them accelerate their overall growth. And on Loop, Loop is a big investment. Loop is going to be one of these things that requires a good amount of capital before it becomes profitable because it sets up a whole new way of consumption, a lot of infrastructures we have to build. So, the investment that came in on Loop from Aptar, Nestle, or Procter & Gamble made investments and so on is really to help set up the reuse infrastructure that the Loop project requires to be successful around the world.

John: Got it. What new verticals are you most excited about? Where do you see the greatest need right now in terms of driving future growth opportunities?

Tom: So, for us, the very big one is how do we help? We have done a lot on how do we help companies recycle, but how do we help them make products out of waste. Because if you think about recycling, recycling usually moves the material into lower and lower and lower applications. So, you start from a high-end thing then when it gets recycled into slightly lower. I think a paper is a good example. Paper can be recycled technically seven times and why it can is the fiber length gets shorter as you recycle. So, a bright white paper turns into newspaper and newspaper turns into toilet paper and then that ends up in our gray water. How do we make sure that we can get the really undesirable waste into high-end applications? We have done quite a lot of work but we see a lot more opportunity in that and a lot of companies are also interested in helping make their products from unique waste streams whether it is an ocean and river plastic, all the way to the waste on the top of Mt. Everest. There is a lot of waste out there that is not being collected because it creates may be different materials that have different capabilities or different prices, and this is a big area that we are really excited about. So, there are lots of these sort of areas that we are now doing big investments in and so far, it is really paying out. The companies out there are really, as you said earlier, materially shifting and embracing sustainability in much more of a core way than more of historically sustained. It is always actually very interesting. Where is the sustainability department in the company? Sometimes it is held by legal which means the company does use it as a risk to be managed. Maybe it is held by marketing where they view it as an opportunity for publicity. Sometimes it is held at its own budget and function where they view it more I believe as a business principle where they can win but it is actually very telling where a company puts their sustainability function for example.

John: You are so right. Once I was with Jim Gowen close to where you are sitting today, and Jim was the head of the supply chain and then they made him Chief Sustainability Officer as well at Verizon. And I ask him why and he explained to me why and I am like, “Aha, that was when the light bulb went off.” as you said. Instead of seeing it as risk, they saw it as an opportunity and use that as an opportunity at Verizon. So, you are so right on that. Talk about plastic. It seems though, Tom, the media has done a wonderful but in one way in almost an overweight job and just focusing on plastic as the world’s biggest crisis. Is that warranted and are we going to figure this out along the way here or what are your thoughts on the plastic crisis that does exist? But I am just wondering your thoughts on it.

Tom: Yes, absolutely. I think that it is a bit misdirected, not wrong but misdirected in the sense that I think it is not that of material is benevolent or evil, whether it is an alloy or a glass or a fiber or a ceramic or a polymer like plastic. I think the issue is the idea of single-use that we extract these materials from the earth, creating great harm on the planet, and then what? We use them for like ten minutes and throw them out? That is the problem. It is the throwaway nature, the single-use nature which tends to dominate plastics more than it does with some other materials. I think that is what we need to really contemplate and think about because plastic itself is a magical material that allows us to do so many things we could not do and we do need to honor it. It helps us be healthier. It helps us access things that we could not afford before. It helps lower carbon impact. It does a lot of great things but it also is synonymous with single-use and it is the single-use thing that we got to really solve. Now, single-use is an idea as only seventy years old. If we think back before the 50s, we cobbled our shoes, we mended our clothes, we bought milk from a milkman or motor oil was in reusable containers. We also bought way less and we lived much more humble lives. And that I think is the key thing we got to think about because, in the past seventy years, we have created this gouging on consumption and throwaway culture which is also almost identically created the environmental crisis we are in right now. Those all came hand-in-hand. Now, luckily it is only seventy years old as philosophy, this idea of throwaway, hyper-consumption, and I wonder if we can correct that.

John: Interesting. So, you raised now the fifty and the fifty and now you are raising a whole another round of capital?

Tom: Yes.

John: You are in twenty countries now. I know you are going to be opening up three new countries in the near future?

Tom: Well, India is coming up. They were opening with our foundations. We have a non-profit. And then there are a couple of more countries were looking at in Europe like Portugal, Italy as well as countries like Indonesia and so on.

John: Talk about India. India taking a great brand like yours and a visionary like yours and converging that with India, one of the greatest populations in the world, talk about that opportunity. Is that get you out of bed in the morning? Is that really where you get to take all of your twenty years of experience and the vision for the future and really get to see change happen faster than ever before?

Tom: Yes, absolutely. So, to me, any new market is incredibly exciting personally because I get to discover in great depth what the culture in the country is all about. But the waste crisis is really pronounced in emerging regions especially Southeast Asia. Because now you have big populations that are moving into the consumerist culture and there is not the infrastructure to do proper waste management. Like for example in India, the first thing we are starting with is a project to clean up rivers because people just informally disposed of waste, not because they want to but because there is no other alternative into canals that go into rivers in the rainy season and then right out into the oceans. And it is something like eight rivers around the world are the source of about 80% of the ocean plastic in the ocean. So, that is where we are starting. It is really exciting every time we are deploying a new country to see how is what we do localized, how does it change and how does it stay the same, because garbage is very much a global truth. It is more similar country by country than it is different.

John: India is so big and vast. I have been there. I assume you have already been there as well.

Tom: Sure.

John: Where do you start? It is so daunting in terms of size. How did you decide where to start?

Tom: We really try to focus on what do our partners want. And so here, we are going to start on the Ganges River because that is where our partners want us to focus. And then once we have established a base, then that is when we start thinking about how do we deploy other programs. When we opened in China, which is just the sort of large, we set up our office in Shanghai but then we started doing programs focused on major cities, but really driven by the partners that are funding our program. So, we really let that be partner-driven and that makes it much easier than us having to do big evaluations and take a gamble on where we should be located.

John: It is because the partners have the highest touch and best feel for the political, geopolitical, and social economic and cultural issues?

Tom: It could be or it could just be that they have a priority for a certain thing to happen somewhere. It could be much less sophisticated but generally, they are the actors on the ground who understand and we are there to serve them and so, that really is the driver of where we look at deploying and why.

John: You know, Tom, twenty countries is just tremendous. India, China, amazing. You are so, so young for having done so much and I say that only in an endearing way. It is just incredible what you have done at this age. Where do you go? How much further can you take these so many countries out there and how far in advance do you map this out?

Tom: We take it day by day. We are so crazy busy that it is more directionally we know where we are going, but then we are also really there to react and learn and pivot as needed. One of the things I do not believe in as much, I do not know if I am right or wrong on this is to do sort of big three to five-year planning. We set our direction very firmly in where we want to go and then we work as hard as possible to get bigger every year. Now, luckily for seventeen years, we have only grown, but we look out really the calendar year and make sure things are protected, we do things in a very conservative, budget processes, those sort of things but we do not really believe in the big long-term visioning only because things change so fast as well and we are more focused on how do we be agile, shift, adapt, and learn than to fix a course and stick with it. Now, what we will not compromise is our core beliefs which were all about how do we solve waste, but around that, we are incredibly flexible.

John: For our listeners out there who just joined us. We got Tom Szaky, he is the CEO and Founder of TerraCycle. You can find them at www.terracycle.com or www.loopstore.com. He has three books out. They are on Amazon. These are the two of them. I have read these two. They are amazing. Tom, I am on the Loop store site right now. I love it, but I want you to explain it to our viewers or listeners now. How does it operate and why did you set that up as a separate entity from the great TerraCycle website?

Tom: Yes, absolutely. So, Loop is a global platform for reuse where brands can enter and create reusable versions of their products, and most major brands, all the CPG companies have done so. So, I think Tide laundry detergent and reusable stainless steel or your Ferrero, Nutella, now in a reusable glass all over the world, and then retailers can embed that and make that available to their consumers. So, you can go into a store in the US Kroger Walgreens where you will be able to buy all your favorite brands in reusable packaging, then when you are done, you throw it into a loop ecosystem at the store sort of like a waste management function of reuse if you will. And we set that up as a distinct entity only because there were investors interested in investing in Loop distinctly. As mentioned, we did two rounds in 2021 of just under twenty-five million and other for twenty-five million, and Loop was one of those, and their investors like Procter & Gamble, Nestle, Aptar, or Firmenich were once who want it to strategically deploy capital directly into Loop.

John: Is the next round of capital you raised is going to be institutional or is it going to give an opportunity to our listeners and viewers to invest also as you did in the last one where you picked up six thousand of your users who invested in you as well?

Tom: Yes, absolutely. We may do more crowdfunding in the future or potentially even go public, but the next major round we are working on which is for a hundred and fifty million is something where the minimum check size will be about twenty-five million, so more institutional investors and folks that are focused on impact investing, and that is going to be an enterprise-wide capital raise or is an enterprise-wide capital raise.

John: Got it. You know, Tom, we have so many viewers and listeners around the world now and those are seventeen, sixteen, fifteen that want to be the next Tom Szaky, and I always say that with love and care. So, what are some advice now looking back, instead of looking forward, look back, for the next generation of entrepreneurs that want to change the world that just does not want to make a dollar but wants to make an impact and want to make a change? What words of wisdom and pearls of wisdom can you share backward with them?

Tom: A couple of things. I would say the idea of purpose is tremendously valuable. If you are a purposeful business, you can actually grow faster, open doors you cannot open before. The purpose is tremendously valuable. So, definitely be purposeful. As an entrepreneur, just start, stop thinking and just start. People overthink and you are going to learn everything on the way. But apart from that is to really honor failure in critique and honor it by learning from it and not being upset by it. Those are some of the sorts of golden principles that have been very important especially in a world that is getting faster and more dynamic by the minute.

John: Got it. If you were to pick one or two words or a sentence that best embodies Tom Szaky, tell me what that would be?

Tom: Oh, geez. Well, I think the things I pride and the cultures we create on is fierce innovation, really hard work and doing also with only in the spirit of how do we make the world or society better like how can capitalism be just oozing purpose in everything it does.

John: What I also love about you Tom is your obsession with clients. You have figured out a way to integrate your brands with more brands than anybody I have ever met and that is fascinating because they are not a cookiecutter. As you and I know, all these brands have their own culture and DNA. They figured out how to work with all of them. So, you have an obsession with pleasing and meeting your clients where they are that I have not seen with anybody else, and that is a talent. That is [inaudible].

Tom: Thank you. I appreciate that. I think a big part for us is it is not about us getting people to love our purpose, it is about understanding theirs and how they can win in whatever their goals are by leveraging the way we think about the world. I think that is very important. If you run a purpose-based or impact business, it is empathizing with the person you are working with whether it is a customer or a client or whoever, and helping them see how they can further their own goals with your purpose versus getting them just to believe in your purpose.

John: I love it. For our listeners and viewers out there. This has been Tom Szaky on the impact podcast. He is the Founder and CEO of TerraCycle. Something tells me he is only at the top of the first inning[?] of what he started to do because I will tell you why. He is so young and he has got such a big vision. You can find him and his colleagues at www.terracycle.com or www.loopstore.com or read his books. These three of them on amazon.com and in other great book stores. I have read the two of them. It is really worth a read. Tom, you are truly the embodiment of why I created this mission of this podcast called Impact. No one person has made an impact like you that I have met along the way, and I just wish you good health and more success so you continue to change the world for the better. Thank you for your time, the generosity of your time of joining us today, and I cannot wait to have you back on again and again, my friend.

Tom: My pleasure. Have a wonderful afternoon. Great to connect today.

John: Thanks so much, Tom. You are the best. Thank you so much.

Tom: Thanks, John. Great to chat. Look forward to doing it again soon.

John: All right.

Tom: Bye.

John: Bye-bye.

John: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking platform revolutionizing the talent booking industry with thousands of athletes, celebrities, entrepreneurs, and business leaders. Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent, for speeches, customer experiences, live streams, and much more. For more information on Engage or to book talent today, visit letsengage.com.

John Shegerian: This edition of The Impact podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com

John: Welcome to another edition of The Impact podcast. I am John Shegerian. This is a very special edition of The Impact podcast because I have got my friend Daniel Zahir with us. And this is the Valentine’s edition of The Impact podcast. Welcome to Impact Daniel and welcome to the Valentine’s edition of this podcast.

Daniel Zahir: Thank you for having me, John. I am so excited to be here with you.

John: We are excited to have you. I am excited. It is a true honor. I am the CEO of your fan club and your family’s fan club and your wonderful store’s fan club. So I just want to say thank you for being able to share your journey today and your family’s journey and the Edelweiss chocolate family. Your family chocolate journey with us today. So before we get talking about Edelweiss chocolates and your family and you, I want you to share a little bit about your journey itself Daniel, and how you got involved? How your family got involved? and how you even got to where you are today?

Daniel: So, it has been an interesting and long road that led my family to being a part of this business. If I can take a step back and take you all the way back to my life in Texas, that was where I was born and I grew up in Texas. When my family moved from Iran, they moved just before the revolution happened in Iran in 1978. My father had caught wind of a potential political uprising. He was dating my mom at the time and he told her, he said, “I want to marry you. I want to marry you in 20 days and under the condition that when we get married within two weeks, we moved to the states.” And he told her why and my mom agreed and she said, “You know what? I am your ride or die. Let us do it. It will be an adventure. Let us make it happen.”

So they got married. A couple of weeks later, they were here in the states and then the revolution happened in Iran and at the time the reason my parents moved to Texas… I had an uncle who was studying in Arlington, Texas at the time. So my parents moved to Arlington so they could be around some family and have a little anchor and then slowly after the revolution happened almost all of my family moved to the states. Also, it took about 10 to 12 years before everybody was actually arrived in the States, but they all move to LA. Everybody who came after my parents moved here. Until I was about 15, grew up in Texas and without the majority of our family and my parents had been missing them for a long, long, long time.

By the time I was in high school, they decided you know what it is time to bite the bullet, make another move and we packed up and we moved the whole family out to Los Angeles, wherewith everybody was reunited again after about. At that point, it was about 20 years that they were all separated and kind of scattered, and everyone came together. My parents owned some gas stations and some real estate out in Texas and they thought that with the new change, they would retire. They thought they would retire early. They were in their early 50s, I want to say at the time. They thought wrong. They lasted a couple years and I think that the boredom kind of started to get to them and they were starting to drive each other a little crazy.

So they said after a couple of years that they wanted to look for another business. Something that they could throw themselves into. It did not have to be anything that they necessarily had experience with. And so they set fillers out and they heard about Edelweiss going up for sale. Now, because we lived in Beverly Hills. We were familiar with it and the friend who had tipped them off said, “You know what? Just go in. Do not let them know who you are, why you are here. Just try it more of their chocolates. Get a feel for the business.” And my parents had not tried the chocolates yet up until that point. They had only heard about it.

John: Right. Right, right.

Daniel: So they came in. They brought me and they brought my sister. We all came in. We tried the chocolates. They absolutely fell in love. We fell in love with the business and they pursued it from there. It was literally just tasting the chocolates and being given a tour of the business and learning about the history of that really made them fall in love with it and sold them on the business. That is how we got involved. They did not know anything about the confectionary process of the chocolate business prior to purchasing this business. So they literally threw themselves in headfirst and made it happen.

John: That is amazing. Now your family’s name and I love your family because they make everyone who walks through the front doors, just like you do, feel like family is. Steven Madeline or your mom’s, mom and dad, and then you have also your sister Renee who runs your Brentwood location, and your husband, Adrian who also works with you in the Beverly Hills store. Now your family name is here to pour to you though shorten the names as I hear. That is why our listeners and our viewers will see you as Danny’s a year, but I just wanted to tell our listeners or viewers the whole family name is that he reports which is a very Iranian name and therefore your immigrant shows your immigrant roots back to Iran.

Daniel: Absolutely. It was a few years ago that I ended up changing it and my uncle the one that lives in Texas, he did the same thing about maybe 30 or 40 years back. He [inaudible] to Zahir and so I was telling him one day, “I am in the business now. I am working with the general public. A lot of people are very intimidated by my name.” And he said, “You know what? That is the same experience I was having.” That is why he decided to shorten it and he suggested that I might do the same and so I took him up on his advice and I said, “Why not? let us try it and see.” And it was made people feel more comfortable. I can tell you that.

John: I get it and I totally understand it. For our listeners and our viewers, to go find that Daniel’s great chocolates and why struggles? You go to www.edelweisschocolates.com, chocolates for all. I have the website up. It is an amazing website. The store is beautiful. Daniel also was kind enough to film a 17-minute tour as though you are in the store getting a whole tour of the behind-the-scenes and the front of the house of what is going on. So you feel like you have gone and come and met Daniel and seeing everything going on there. Thank you for doing that Daniel because that tour is just wonderful. I have had the luck and the blessing to also done the tour and person. I feel like they are watching your video, people will not miss a thing. The video is going to be up on our website, The Impact podcast next to your show. So people can click on the video and feel like they have a personal tour from you of your wonderful chocolate store.

Daniel: When I was talking with you guys about doing the interview, initially, one of the things I spoke with Paul about was that we used to do tours fairly regularly, nearly on a daily basis and it was something that we very much enjoyed doing it. It breathed life into this business and it allowed us to see our product and our business through fresh eyes on a daily basis because something as simple as when our customers walk in almost every one of them they say, “Oh my God, that smell. Wow.” It is like the intensity of the chocolate aroma which I do not smell anymore.

John: Wow.

Daniel: It is so interesting. So every time someone walks in and they say that it brings me back down to the experience that our customers have the first time they walk in the door. And it was one of the reasons I absolutely loved giving tours to people regularly, but in a sense, Covid happened, we had to stop doing that. And so when we started speaking with you guys about doing the interview, I thought how cool would it be if we could give your viewers and your listeners. Hopefully, your listeners will go on and see the video, put insight into the business and just a little sneak peek into the facility and the equipment. It is the equipment that is the most interesting thing I think about the facility because many, many, many of the machines that we have are original, they are antiques and I think about four of them are over a hundred years old. You just do not see them anywhere anymore. So it is really cool.

John: No, and you gave a wonderful history. You even said the original founders now. The store was founded in 1942, right? So you have about 79 years of amazing Beverly Hills history there. But one of the things that was fascinated by your tours, they bought a duplicate of what you already have there, but the machine was so sturdy, they have never even have to go get the duplicate. The original still works. You said just perfectly. Great.

Daniel: Absolutely. Is it not fascinating?

John: Yeah. I mean… It is great.

Daniel: We have bought several newer pieces of equipment. They are fully automated, electronic machines. Those need repairs far more regularly than the old machines do. The old machines knock on wood. They nearly never ever break down or nearly never ever need parts replacing or other than regular maintenance. There is not much to them. The newer machines, on the other hand, they do not make them like they used to. I mean, I can say that.

John: It is true. There is so many things that make your story unique. There are so many stories and I want to start with your family now is on this 21 years. Can you want to talk a little bit about the history? How many families owned it before your family bought the store?

Daniel: Absolutely. So, my family is the fifth family that owned this business. So, it truly has been a family business each and every step of the way. The first and original owner who owned the business was Mrs. Grace Young and she was from Montana and she moved from Montana just before she established this business down to Beverly Hills. I do not actually know the reason she chose Beverly Hills that has been lost to history, unfortunately, but in conversations with her granddaughter, earlier when we bought the business. She told us that the owner struggled and what was interesting about her was that she took on a massive amount of risk trying to start a confectionery business in the midst of World War Two where rationing had already begun in the states.

So to acquire the sugar and butter and cream and milk that goes into the recipes, she said it was a daily struggle but she persevered. She put her blood, sweat, tears, and her whole entire soul and being into this business. I kind of joke about it but I think that perseverance and that struggle and her putting her soul into this business, I honestly think that soul is still part of this business. It survived and this business has its own beating heart that it is outside of my family. It is bigger than my family and I really think that it was the efforts of the original owner that just enter thumbprint on this business that is made it as successful as it is. She owned the business for about 30 years. And then the second owner was Mr. Herman Schmidt, who was a Swiss gentleman and he brought a lot of the Swiss recipes with him and so the business. So each one of the owners have put their own unique stamp on it over the years which is kind of interesting. It is like a quilt that was built over several years.

John: Such a nice way of putting it in. I have to tell you, not only does all your great family members who have all come to just love and adore make you feel like family when you walk through the front door, but even all the employees of the first employee I met when I walked in two and a half three years ago is Lisa. She also makes me feel like family. She… all of your people, you have surrounded yourself in curating the group of employees, and your family itself makes everyone feel like family. I will tell you it is even though it is one of the smallest retail shops I have ever been in, when you think about retail it is also one of the most warming and cozy places you could ever go and feel just like you are at home the moment you walk through that front door. So you guys have put a stamp of the family on it that I have never felt before in any other retail shop I have been in.

Daniel: Thank you. That really means a lot to me. I can tell you that from our perspective. I think that our Persian heritage has brought a lot of that to this business because you know for your viewers and listeners who may not be aware of Persian culture. It is very much grounded and rooted in hospitality. When you get invited into a Persian home, the guest is King, everything for the guests. It is the biggest honor as far as my family and all the other Persian family is I know. It is the biggest honor you can give a family is to come into their home and we will do everything for you and so that translates into our business as well. Every single person who walks through that door, whether they are here to purchase something or just to browse or you know these days sometimes it is that they are lonely and they have been a little isolated and they want to chat with somebody. Every single person is welcome. We have trained the staff that each person needs to be greeted with a heartfelt “Hello” and take the time to get to know your customers and to serve them well. I mean if we are a part of the hospitality industry in the end and so we must be hospitable.

John: Talk a little bit about it. For our listeners who just joined us, we got Daniel Zahir. He is a family member and of course the creative director and chocolatier at Edelweiss chocolates. You can find them at www.edelweiss, E-D-E-L, weiss, W-E-I-S-S chocolates plural.com. It is a wonderful website. You can order some now for Valentine’s or any other time in the year. And guess what? When that box comes to the people that you are sending it to, it is a piece of happiness coming to their front door. I will tell you. Everybody I have ever given Edelweiss chocolates says the best chocolates they have ever put in their mouth and their tummy. So talk a little bit about, Danny, about what makes Edelweiss so special? I grew up eating choco… That is my one little vice that I just love. It is my… The little room I give in my diet for something really sweet as chocolate was in your chocolate. Thumbs up. How did that happen?

Daniel: Absolutely. I would honestly say that this year with all of the different difficulties have really enlightened me as to what it is that has made our business special. I have heard a lot of feedback from the customers. Many of whom are multi-generational, you know their great grandparents bought the grandparents brought the next generation and so it has been ongoing since the start of the business and many of them have been reaching out to us and I have realized honestly that it is twofold surrounding tradition. Tradition is really the thing that sets aside our business. Number one, the tradition of honoring the old European style, techniques, and recipes of chocolate work. We dip… I would say more than half of our chocolates, they are dipped by hand and it takes a long time to train somebody to be able to gain those skills.

Many of them have an initial or a marking on the tops of the chocolates. That is also done by hand and again it takes about a year to a year and a half to fully trained somebody to do that. Now, we have made a commitment that we would carry on this tradition because we feel that it is an art form. If businesses are abandoning these art forms, they will not survive for the future generations. So the tradition of the manufacturing processes, one aspect of what has made our business successful – the traditions that our customers and our clients have built around our business is the other aspect that has made our business so special and so unique. A community has been built around this business. We see people running into each other all the time here in the business. They have not seen each other for years sometimes. The messages on the note cards that come through are just the sweetest things, especially over this last year.

I could publish a book with the heartwarming messages that we have gotten this year and that we have seen passed through our hands. And so those traditions that our customers have are also very special. Especially because we have been around for so long and the customers have maintained these traditions for as long as they have. It is something very unique in this world. Especially in a state like California, we do not have too many old institutions.

John: Right.

Daniel: It is something very interesting.

John: It is true. 79 years is a long time for any business in United States, but especially in LA which in many ways is like a transient City, a set of movies film is you break the set down and a new set is built for new movies, but your store has lasted the test of time. Since you are in the middle of Beverly Hills and Hollywood in many ways. It is also fun to note that many people from Hollywood or the entertainment industry, are your customers historically have been and still are your customers.

Daniel: Yeah. We have a very long and interesting list and I can tell you dating back to the Golden Age of Hollywood. We had notable celebrities such as Elizabeth Taylor who is… We only recently discovered and we have these archives and every so often a new piece falls out of the archive or our gaze lands on a detail we had not noticed before and we recently discovered Elizabeth Taylor’s favorite chocolates were the Swiss truffle. We had heard about it from my customers like an oral history, but now we actually found her card where it included all of her favorites and our information. And so it was a really unique find and once in a while, we do come across these things. So she was a very famous notable, Katharine Hepburn wrote about us in her autobiography. Her favorites were the dark chocolate turtles. Frank Sinatra’s favorites were our Maple creams that they are good.

John: Those are really good.

Daniel: His family still buys them.

John: Really?

Daniel: They still like them.

John: [inaudible].

Daniel: Yeah, and then more into the modern-day, we have a lot, Reese Witherspoon is a regular. It is funny. She just comes to know my father and they are on a first-name basis. She just pops in and says hi to him all the time and from what my dad tells her. I have not had the opportunity to meet her yet, but she is a really lovely and a very sweet and personable person. You know Jennifer Garner and [inaudible].

John: Madonna?

Daniel: Madonna. Her favorites are the dark chocolate plain vanilla. marshmallows.

John: Oh, those are so good.

Daniel: Former Governor Schwarzenegger, actually, I keep that little white framed. No that was a letter he wrote to us to thank us for our service to the state and for keeping the tradition alive and so he is a customer still and we have had our chocolates serves to Jimmy Carter, President Obama, the Saudi Royalty, British Royalty. So I mean it is kind of the sky is the limit. But having said all of that, we do not gear our business towards the elite and the who’s who of wherever. Ultimately, everyone… we are an equitable business. Everybody who walks on the store, everyone who calls us, everyone who places an order gets the same treatment.

John: Danny and how I know that is true. I was in the store once. Before I met you knowing… I knew your mom and I knew, of course, your dad and Lisa and now I am in the store and is packed and it is a holiday time and there was a celebrity in the store. But there was other people to store, this is pre-Covid obviously. So the store was packed. And everyone in your family, you and Adrian, everyone was all hands on deck and everybody got treated the same. With the same big smile with the same big heart. And even with the celebrity there, everyone was on even footing which really goes to say so much about you and your family and everybody who is part of the Edelweiss family. It is just really really special stuff. But I do know, I do not want to leave Hollywood behind and because we are going to go on and talk about Valentine’s of all the great things you have here at up of Valentine’s week.

And before we get into the Lucy story, please share. I know you did it in the video, but I want you to do it again and it bears repeating because it is really my favorite Hollywood part of your story.

Daniel: Absolutely and I can tell you that you know one might expect that the newer generations of kids for instance may not know who Lucille Ball is but you would be surprised there are so, so, so many people who still walk in through this door and they asked to see the machine that inspired that famous, I Love Lucy Chocolate Factory episode. And so, it is just a testament to Lucy’s art itself and that it lasted as long as it has. You can still watch it on TV. It is all over the place. Most people are familiar with her and the TV show. And so what happened in our little bit of that legacy is that Lucy used to be a customer of ours and she parks in the back parking lot that we have here on-site and she would walk through the factory to get into the front store and one faithful day as she was passing through we have this, not to get to into the terminology, but we have this thing called an enrobing machine.

And the way that operates is any of the centers that are too delicate for instance to dip by hand. We passed them through this machine that creates like a little curtain of chocolate and then the center is passed through the chocolate, they get fully coated and then they come out of the belt. There is this open space in the belt before they enter the long cooling tunnel. Now, the reason I mention this is that open spaces where the magic happened that day. We were training like I was telling you a little bit ago, one of the staff members to learn how to do the initial on the tops of the chocolates. So when they come out of the enrobing portion, they are still wet and you still have an opportunity to do the initial work. Now, it was a messy, messy day as I was told. Chocolate was flying through the air, the poor woman was struggling to keep up with how fast the confections were coming off the belt and so she was really struggling.

And the chocolate was covering. She was covered in it. It was flying through the air. The machine was covered. The walls were covered and Lucy happened to be walking by just by chance at that moment and a light bulb went off in her head. And she thought that this was one of the most hilarious things she had ever seen and so what a lot of people do not know is she actually physically spend three weeks here in our facility, researching.

John: You said that in the video, I had never heard that before but that just goes to the level of greatness people think. The great ones just show up and they are great. I just read yesterday that Tom Brady’s family left his home so they could give him 12 days prior to Super Bowl to sit at his desk and watch film. Brady is not GOAT [inaudible] at 43 years old because of lack of preparation. He is the GOAT for a reason. She is arguably the what female comedian GOAT of all time or one of them for great reason. So when you gave that part of the story on our prep work, the lightbulb went off to me and said, “There it is.” There is the key part of the whole story. She just did not see that as a funny moment. She wanted to study it sure. She got it right when she did it with Vivian Vance on camera.

Daniel: Exactly. We did not know the full history of that episode for many years. Again, It was passed down almost like folklore by our customers until we had William Asher who was the director of the series reached out to us. This was several years back. He was celebrating his 87th birthday, and he wanted to come to our facility and celebrated he lived in… I want to say he lives in Pennsylvania at the time, but he wanted to come here and celebrate his birthday at this site that inspired his most successful episode he ever filmed in his entire career.

John: Wow.

Daniel: Yeah. So he came here with his lovely wife and he told us the whole history about exactly how everything transpired and what he told us that really blew my mind and like you said was the key to Lucy’s comedic genius was that she did not leave anything a chance. A lot of people think, “Oh if you know she was a good ad-libber or improvisational artist.” But she was not. She was a workhorse and she rehearse and rehearse and rehearse and she was more of a perfectionist. She again did not like to leave anything to chance. She spent three weeks here in the facility. She wanted to see everything that we do that way with an eye towards what would be funny on camera. Now, what I can tell you is what she ended up doing she tweaked our process. When if you think back to that episode, they would pick up the chocolates and wrap them and then put them back on the belt.

John: Right.

Daniel: Now, we do not do that here because as I was explaining. When they come out of the enrobing machine, they are still wet. The chocolate had not hardened yet and that is when they do the marking. Now, as Mr. Asher explains to us, Lucy tried to make it funny doing the markings but he said that there is a fine line between funny and messy and Lucy just did not have the skills that is that difficult to get it done right. She said it was just too messy. So they spent some time trying to figure out what can we do to tweak their processes to make it funny for the camera. And so that is the reason she spent that much time here.

John: By the way, what was her favorite chocolate? Do you guys… Was that part of the history too? You know, what…

Daniel: You know what? I get asked that question a lot and it pains me to say we do not have that.

John: Okay. That is how it goes. And I never saw one. So I just wondered if I missed it when I have been in your store so many times where I missed that part of it. Let us move from Hollywood now to Valentine’s because this is the Valentine’s special and for our listeners and our viewers. We have got Danny. See here. He is part of the family that owns Edelweiss chocolate. He is the chocolatier and the creative director. You can find and order your chocolates for Valentine’s Day or any other day of the year at www.edelweiss, E-D-E-L, weiss, W-E-I-S-S chocolates with an s.com. It is a great website. Go on 24/7.

Danny, it is Valentine’s Day. Is that the busiest holiday of the year for you guys?

Daniel: It s funny. Most people think that it is. It is not necessarily the busiest. I would say that Christmas is definitely number one and what a lot of people do not realize is that Easter is actually the second-largest holiday, and there is a long tradition that dates all the way back to Europe tying chocolate to Easter because many people would give chocolate up for Lent. Once Easter rolled around, chocolate is really just evolved into a major, major part of the Easter culture. And so it is a big, big holiday for us as well. Valentine’s not to say, the Valentine’s is not. Everyone knows Valentine’s goes hand-in-hand with chocolate. But Valentine’s is more of a… I am not going to get into speculating here, but it is more of a last-minute holiday [inaudible]. Your audience to decide why that might be but it is more of a last-minute holiday.

John: So talk about what wonderful gifts that you have for Valentine’s teed up. So people can email you or call you and make some orders and send someone they really care about or a loved one or the romantic interest one of your beautiful boxes of chocolate, which I always say is just happiness in a box.

Daniel: Absolutely. So we have several fun items that we are doing for the holiday. We make our a very delicious organic berry bar. It is the base of the bar is white chocolate and ruby chocolate and then we flavor the chocolate with organic raspberry and freeze-dried strawberry powder. So that makes this really beautiful pink color and then we decorate the top of it with the fruit as well varies. So, that is really lovely. We do a raspberry and also a rose marshmallow. So we sell those in raspberry and rose assorted box that is really fun for the holidays. We do a separate raspberry heart. It is like a marshmallow heart. Those are really fun. We have chocolate roses and… We do that is really fun also for the holiday aside from what we make here in sho and we work with the company that does custom heart boxes. They come in…

John: [inaudible] boxes?

Daniel: I think beautiful.

John: Oh my gosh. Your heart boxes are just over the top end. For our listeners, go on the website everything Danny’s talking about, you can see on the website, the berry bar, the heart boxes are all there. It is gorgeous. Go ahead Danny, I interrupted you.

Daniel: Yeah. No. Not at all. I know that you are a big fan of the heart boxes. I know that is something that you purchase all year round and those boxes what is unique about them, they are all handmade. Again, we decided that if we are going to bring something into this business. We want to highlight businesses that do things by hand like we do. We think that it is a very special thing to still be able to manufacture that way and so we want to support those businesses as well. Now, the boxes are made out of real materials, real leather stacked and velvet [inaudible] and sashes and flowers. We have one for the gentlemen, the ladies really love. It is newer this year. So it is in the shape of a heart but it is decorated as if it is a gentleman’s suit with a vest and a tie and it is a real fabric vest with the real fabric and tie on it. I think we have about maybe 25 to 30 different varieties of heart boxes. And they are very interesting and they are very unique, I think.

John: That is some great and the nice thing also is when someone calls in and speaks with you or one of your great family members at your chocolate store, you guys can curate almost any gift to the needs of the customers. You guys always figure out a way that to make the experience super special for the gift giver and the gift receiver. So, if you do not see it on the website, I just would say call on in and speak with Danny or one of his family members or colleagues because they always figure out a way to get it done and they have for our family for years now, and it is just always goes so well. Danny, talk a little bit about your stores. You have one in Beverly Hills. You have one in Brentwood at the Brentwood Country Mart and you have the online, the website, and people could email you or also calling. Is that the best way for our listeners and viewers to access your great chocolates?

Daniel: Absolutely. So, anybody is welcome to walk in we are open now. We have a limited capacity and as all businesses in LA do retail shops, but absolutely more than welcome to come in. You can call us, the numbers on the website or like you said visiting our website to make a purchase. What I will say though is for the Valentine holiday because it tends to be a bit of a last-minute holiday and Covid being what it is in the situation being what it is. Because we have limited capacity and store. We are anticipating very, very, very long lines the week of Valentine’s Day. So what I would suggest to your listeners, if possible, order early, do not wait until the last minute and if you are local, we have really really great rates. We are doing specials on messengering, we can cover most of Los Angeles. I would highly recommend messengering it. Because if you wait close to the holiday, even if you are just picking up the order, you may wait in line to get it. So please do not wait. Place your orders early and we will make sure to get it done.

John: That is awesome. You know, Danny, beyond chocolate, in your… personally speaking, you also are the chairman of the board of directors for Raha International. Can you explain to our listeners and viewers a little bit about what your work is at Raha?

Daniel: Absolutely. Raha International is a nonprofit organization that was established by my co-founder Shervin [inaudible] and it is our passion project. It has been for several years now. It is for LGBTQ Iranians whether you are here in the US or you are in Iran or anywhere else in the world, to build a community and through that community to be able to support one another. There really had not been an LGBTQ Iranian or Persian community at all. And you know what I can tell you just being in the Persian community and I am also Jewish, you know being in a Jewish Community separately. I know that there is a lot of strength that you can derive from being a part of a community. You can make connections, social connections, business connections, a lot of opportunities come through these personal connections, and we notice that a lot of the LGBTQ Iranians especially the ones who are coming from Iran who do not have family here, where did not have any friends here. They were without a network and they were kind of left to just fend for themselves. We know how difficult that can be. So we wanted to create a space and an environment for all of us to come together and really start building that connection and that community [inaudible].

John: How many years ago did you guys founded that?

Daniel: We established it in 2017.

John: How can people donate or join or be become a member of Raha International?

Daniel: Absolutely. So we are currently working on our website. We are tweaking it. So where it is a little rough around the edges at the moment, but you can totally visit our website at Raha, R-A-H-A, intl.org. You can also find us on Instagram by the same handle. We are also on Facebook. We find out about all the fun and unique different things that we are doing. We also host a support group that meets once monthly. Now because of Covid, we are doing it online and virtually at the moment. But once all at once, we go back to normal. It will be met in person. And that is another important aspect of the work we do. We do not only want to focus on social interactions. We really want to help people with fostering better mental health. We do a lot of educational programming where we teach people about sexual health, mental well-being, what the refugee experience is moving from Iran to La. How to find jobs, begin that job search, and how to build a new life in a new country and a new town in a new city where you do not know anybody.

So we want to be that resource for people who are really looking for that type of help and because Covid has stalled or put an end to a lot of the programming for this year that we had. A lot of our donations have also stalled. We would gladly accept any donations any of your viewers or listeners might want to pass our way and they can absolutely do that by visiting our website. Again, it is rahaintl.org and there is a big donate button right at the top banner.

John: Danny, first of all, that is so important that work you are doing. There is a passion project and I really congratulate you and support your mission and your passion. Talk a little bit about being an immigrant. Talk about how hard is it still to be part of the LGBTQ community in Iran versus hopefully a more open society like the United States. Is it still part and parcel persecution and shame that comes with that in Iran or other countries that are similarly situated and coming to America offers some more opportunity for relief on these issues or is it even still difficult here in America?

Daniel: It is interesting and that is where the organization was born. Actually, let us a flashback to maybe five to ten years ago. Our executive director serving for [inaudible] who co-founded the organization with me. We built Raha at the back of his work actually. He has been a long time advocate for Iranian LGBTQs to come out of the closet to normalize it. He has been fighting for this for 30 plus years along with a couple of good friends. We have Joseph Jarunyan, is another trailblazer. And so this was built on the back of their work and it started actually. Shervin started doing an enormous party which was instrumental because that party brought people together. It was the seed that started building the community and after a couple years were that took off he started a panel serious. This was very innovative in that… He brought Persian parents and Persian LGBTQs together on a panel to share their experiences either coming out in the persecution they face for as the parents of an LGBTQ, parent-child. What the experience was like having their child to come out to them and this was instrumental because nobody had spoken publicly about it because of the shame that permeated our society in our community.

So that was the reason he started this work was to build, sorry, to break down those walls and to break down those barriers. Eventually, it went from just programming to the need to actually build an organization around this program. So that is when he came to me. We are good friends, and he knew that I was looking for something to really dive into and really give my all to. I was looking for something outside of my personal life and something outside of my business life that I could give back. And so when he came to this I said, “You know what? Let us do it. Let us go for it. Let us make this happen.” It has been a blessing ever since.

John: It always a blessing when you can find projects outside of our day-to-day paying the bills, making a living, and their passion projects because they are actually personal. They are filling voids that exist. So that is so wonderful. I am a native New Yorker, Daniel and yesterday and Howard Stern’s always been larger than life and someone I listen to especially in later years where he is gotten really amazing at interviewing people that mean something to him and doing a real great job. And yesterday I listened to an episode. One of my favorite episodes of the last year. We listen to the Anderson Cooper episode and I wanted to just bring up an interesting point that I did not focus on the first time. I listened to it. He talked about Howard brought up to him that Tim Cook, the legendary operator business guy who runs Apple. Who has been with Apple while Steve was alive and then was handed the keys to Apple when Steve passed on.

Tim Cook reached out to Anderson Cooper and they ask for advice and support when he was coming out. When a legend like him with his experience in the media, in the public forum, in operating huge corporations with total deafness and aplomb needs support and needs guidance. Who does not need guidance and this kind of sensitive and important issues I really applaud you more than ever because it is obvious that it is still a very difficult and hard subject for most to navigate.

Daniel: Absolutely and you note to go back. I realize it I quite answer your last question about the stigma that [inaudible] Shervin began the programming and we continued it under under Raha, but I can tell you that here just in our own little microcosm of Los Angeles, it is made so much of a difference. The community has become more open and more accepting, more of our members are coming out to their families. Their families are embracing them. They are celebrating them which is what we are starting to see and we want to expand this because we are lucky here in Los Angeles. We have a big version, you know Iranian community and so it was a little easier to tackle that here but we have a significant number of LGBTQs in Iran. We have all over the world and they are still going through what we were going through 10 years ago here in Los Angeles.

Living under that type of stigma with that level of shame because you have to hide who you are is very difficult and it leads to a lot of mental health problems. And that is the work that we are also looking to focus on is trying to reverse all those years where you know who you are has been buried, buried, and buried, and buried. You have not been able to live your truth. And so that is really the next phase that we are working on is to bridge that gap and take our work and catapulted as servant[?] always has catapulted into Iran. To try to make those changes. So some of the things that we have uniquely this year been able to do, it is finding a silver lining and pivoting. Given this crisis that we have had but the gem of a tool that zoom is we have been able to design some programming. For instance, we do poetry readings. Poetry is there is a long tradition of poetry in Iranian culture that dates back thousand something years.

So, we do poetry readings. We do discussions about them. Many of the conversations center around being LGBTQ. Many of the famous poets. We were suspected that they were LGBTQ, but we are hiding it, you know centuries ago. And so we talk about these things and we have had members from Iran joining. And so now they have been given an opportunity to join the conversation and to reach out and talk to us and see if there is any way that we can communicate with them and help them and how we can support them. And so we are starting to incrementally be able to permeate that barrier. That is kept us from doing our work in our own.

John: That is awesome. Well, continued success with your passion project.

Daniel: Thank you.

John: It is a really important work Danny. Back to Edelweiss chocolates. Now, of course we talked about Valentine’s Day. Let us just look a little bit at a crystal bowl though. When I knew we were going to do this interview this Valentine’s Day special edition of The Impact podcast, as I was one of my news feeds came through and I was sad to see one of my favorite brands that I used to grow up going into their stores in Manhattan all the time, the [inaudible] chocolates closed all of their stores about 10 days ago. So I started thinking a little bit I said, “I want to ask Danny about the future. Does the future hold any possibilities for Edelweiss.” Because you are a young man, your sister Renee is young, Adrian is young. Are you thinking of potentially filling the gap in retail down the road and expanding Edelweiss beyond online and on the phone and the two great stories you have in LA. With retail now vacating the chocolate space and Godiva closing approximately 128 of all of their stores. Does that open up a market opportunity for you? Especially in tourist areas or big cities around the United States?

You know, it is something that outside of Covid. We had been thinking about for a long time. We have… One of the benefits of being in business as long as we have, our clients have either sent gifts all over the world or they have moved all over the world. And so we have hubs all around the US. And around the world where people are buying our chocolates and we are shipping it to them. And so we get people reaching out to us all the time asking us, “Please open any otherwise here in Manhattan and Miami.” You name it and we get the request. Part of our consideration and we are open to expanding but we want to tread lightly because one of the things we do not want to do is diminish how special the brand is and part of that has to do with its exclusivity. In a world that is completely globalized where you know with this phone, I can get almost anything I want to be shipped to me within a couple of days from the farthest corners of the world. Many manufacturers in the farthest corners of the world.

Daniel: There is something special about only being able to get certain items locally. Like for instance, are our chocolate covered cherries. We do not ship them. We do not ship them because they are so delicate. We have tried it, they break and shipment and they leak all over the place, they have a liquid center. So that is something very unique that you can only find here when you walk into our store and you carry it out. We do not want to ruin that. It is something very special and it is not lost on us that it is so special and so unique. One of the things that we decided this year because retail, brick and mortar had taken such a big hit. Our own business is not excluded from that. For the first six months of this pandemic understandably, our normal regular customer base was not ordering as much from us as they had been because there are no events. People are not going to each other’s homes. And so naturally that you will see a decline in sales. But what we did was we pivoted very, very quickly. We focused all of our attention and effort and energy and our budget into building our online platform and advertising it and really throwing everything at that sales channel and we have seen tremendous growth through that business.

So, I think that one of the things that we can do best to allow our chocolates to reach more consumers hands is to really focus on that e-commerce business, for now, [inaudible] and then you know when the dust settles and we know exactly what the landscape looks like after this, these this last year. We can make some decisions.

John: I love it. And you know Danny this has been special. This is our Valentine’s edition. I am so glad you came on today. You are always welcome back on The Impact podcast. You are making an impact with Raha International, of course, you making an impact all around the world with your Edelweiss chocolates for our friends, family, and all of our listeners and viewers around the world, order the handcrafted, we glanced over that a little bit, they are handmade chocolates and you are never going to be disappointed. Please go to www.edelweiss, E-D-E-L, weiss, W-E-I-S-S chocolates with an s.com and order, call up, email Danny, his family and order these for Valentine’s Day or sometime in the near future either for yourself or a family member, for a friend, a romantic interest. You are going to make their heart just so big when they get this box of happiness that tastes delicious. They are handcrafted chocolates. Thank you, Daniel Zahi. You are making an impact. You are making us all happier. You are making the world a better place and I am grateful for your time today on The Impact podcast.

Daniel: Thank you for having me. It has been an honor and a pleasure.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact Podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States, and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact Podcast. I am so honored and excited to have my friend Pete Keller with us today. He is the VP of Recycling and Sustainability at the great company of Republic Services. Welcome to the Impact Podcast, Pete Keller.

Pete Keller: John, thanks for having me. I am excited to be here. I would like to talk a little bit about myself. I am Pete Keller, as John just said, the VP of Recycling and Sustainability at Republic Services. I actually grew up in the state of Maine, which you do not hear of very often, but as a kid from Maine, I was always interested in the environment. I got a Civil Engineering degree from Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts with an emphasis in Environmental Studies. I actually worked my way through college in wastewater treatment. My first job was as an environmental consultant in Southern California and that was in the early 90’s before a lot of the modern landfill regulation was passed or promulgated in the US. I did a lot of cleanup work and a lot of environmental remediation work. Then, I moved to Phoenix in the early 90’s. In the mid-90’s, a little company called Allied Waste moved to Phoenix and became a client of mine. I was fortunate enough to join Allied Waste in 1998 as an engineer and back in those days, John, we were growing rapidly through acquisition and soon moved in operation. I was fortunate enough to work for the company as a general and district manager. After we were acquired or merged with Republic Services in 2008, I was an area president up in the Pacific Northwest. This was back in the day when sustainability was still an emerging science and certainly, these were in the days before anybody was really even talking about ESG. For your audience, ESG stands for Environmental Social Governance, which has all the rage today in the investment community. In the Pacific Northwest, we were ahead of the curve, if you will, as it relates to recycling and sustainability and some of the diversion programs. The company looked to create a role that was heavily focused on recycling and sustainability and I was the guy that happened to be in the right place and at the right time. I had a great team in the Pacific Northwest and I also had a lot of great customers that were willing to support those types of programs. I have been very fortunate over the course of almost the last decade to have the opportunity in shaping and influencing the strategy of the company as a [inaudible] such as how we go to market in the recycling business and more recently, in helping to inform and influence our sustainability strategy. I have been very fortunate over that time.

John: Over the last thirteen or fourteen years or so, I have had lots of folks like you that lead sustainability programs at great brands and are also chief sustainability officers but I cannot remember– although that does not mean it did not happen– any of them being engineers. How did your engineering education inform your sustainability leadership skill set?

Pete: I do not know anybody who has ever asked me that question before, but obviously with most engineers, we are a little bit more methodical and maybe a little bit more risk-averse. I think it gives me an affinity for some of the technical and scientific aspects of sustainability and certainly has the role [inaudible]. We are doing a lot of work with [inaudible] and their alternative fuels, electrification, and things like that. I think it has really helped me, John, with understanding the math and sciences behind those types of things. From a recycling standpoint, I call it the manufacturing, but it is largely manufacturing process and there are a lot of equipment that has become sophisticated and more technical in nature lately. We are using a lot of optical scanners and starting to use robots as well. Those are the things that have helped kick-start us as well. We, as a company, are one of the largest recyclers in the world; we touch about six and a half million tons of recyclables per year so we have an obligation to help manufacturers with their technology and innovation. We have some equipment manufacturers that are really close partners of ours so we work with them closely over the years to make sure that the equipment is getting better over time. That has been a lot of fun as well.

John: That makes so much sense and for our listeners out there, to find Pete Keller’s great company called Republic Services and the great work him and his colleagues are doing, you could go to www.republicservices.com and we are also going to talk about your other website in a little bit recyclingsimplified.com. That is also a great and very informational website as well. Pete, go back to what you just said; what most people do not understand is that you are one of the biggest waste companies in the world, classically speaking waste company, but you are also one of the largest recyclers in the world, which also then gives you a tremendous amount of green sustainability, ESG circular economy, whatever you want to call it, whatever it is being called now in the media and whatever the hot topic that the bankers are using like acronyms et cetera. You are truly one of the largest recyclers in the world. Can you share a little bit about how that really is and how you and your colleagues manage that part of your business?

Pete: Yes, absolutely. So, today John, we have got seventy-nine recycling facilities in the US. We operate in forty-three States and we have fourteen million customers. We have contracts with about 2500 municipalities in the US. So obviously, we touch a lot of communities. You just mentioned recycling simplified; that is our educational and outreach material, but we have done a lot of customer insights work. I might imagine that most your audience have access to curbside recycling programs and that is just part of the service that folks receive. Most of our customers want to recycle and most of them demand recycling services. Again, when you when you think about our size and scope, there are a very few companies worldwide that touch more materials than we do. We play an important part in value chain, you just mentioned a whole bunch of different terms of the day, so whether you want to call it circularity or ESG or anything else. So yes, we play an important role there.

John: Well, you people are humble and what I have learned over the years is that folks like you that lead these kinds of efforts at iconic and great brands that are this large like Republic Services, when you guys make a move, it truly moves the needle. It is not to say the small companies and entrepreneur and innovation that goes on in this country and around the world is not important, but when you guys make a move, it truly does move the needle in sustainability and circular economy behavior and that is so important. You mentioned a little bit about the use of robots, optical scanners and potentially even AI, can you share a little bit how you are starting to use some of those new technologies to help even better your recycling facilities and sustainability efforts.

Pete: Yes, so I mentioned, kind of the manufacturing. Years ago, when recycling programs are just getting started, it was pretty common to have multi-stream or dual stream collection system; so folks would separate their materials at home into multiple bins. It is industry terminology, but in today’s marketplace, quality really matters so we have to spend a lot of time and energy making sure that we are producing high quality materials. One of the ways we do that is through technology; optical scanners, high speed and high precision can separate materials pneumatically. It is basically using little puffs of air in milliseconds. Most optical scanners — I do not want to get too technical, but work in the near-infrared spectrum, and we actually shine light on materials, predominantly plastics and we can measure the way that that light reflects off different types of materials and then we can identify different types of plastic by resin and then separate them pneumatically with equipment that really does not require a lot of maintenance. The robots are probably pretty simple to visualize; it is just an arm with a little suction cup on the end and again, it is a high-speed computer that can recognize different types of material and we can program those robots to grab an aluminum can or a plastic water bottle or maybe grab something that should not be there for [inaudible] contamination. So that is emerging technology and is relatively new to the marketplace but exciting nonetheless and really cool to sit there and watch it work.

John: Go back to the plastic waste thing, that seems, Pete, to have gotten so much media over the last fifteen or twenty years and it is still ongoing; is this attention really needed or warranted or are we misplacing our attention and should be focusing on other items as well as the plastics?

Pete: Yes, plastics are getting more attention in the media today, John, than ever before and I think there are a few things going on. So, there is growing concern over plastics in the environment, whether it is litter, ocean debris plastics on beaches or plastic in developing countries. So that is a concern and plastics in the environments are very real issue. I think the only reason there is so much attention is because there are more and more products being sold in plastic packaging than ever before, whether it is a can of tuna fish that is now in a stand-up pouch… you and I can remember when mayonnaise and ketchup was in glass and now that is all in plastic.

John: A hundred percent. You are right.

Pete: Yes, so there is more focus on that type of packaging simply because there is more of it in the marketplace. So solving that circularity on plastic can be done by doing educational campaigns. We recently announced that we are no longer exporting plastic. I do not know if that is public policy. I do not know if that is just corporate leadership, but just kind of thinking about what happens to materials throughout their entire life is important as well. We do not see a world without plastic. We do not see those materials going away. Again, from the [inaudible] perspective, when you think about the energy inputs and the feedstocks for some of these types of packaging, a plastic actually has a pretty low impact relative to other forms of packaging, so it is a complex issue. It is a difficult issue and it is a problem that a lot of folks are trying to solve.

John: Pete, the [inaudible] of where you sit and also because of your engineering background, you get to see every sort of new innovation that comes up and gets sent over to you and people are pitching you all the time. Do you feel hopeful that in the years to come there will be good domestic opportunities to recycle post-consumer plastic, which like you said, you are just handling it, you are not the manufacturers making it but as you very well shared about mayonnaise, ketchup and so many other products that used to be in glass, they are now gone to plastic and you are sort of forced to handle more and more this stuff, is there going to be good beneficial reuses that are innovated now and in the years to come that you are starting to see because of where you sit, which is a very unique position in this country?

Pete: Yes, we do and a couple of things make us believe that. The most major brands whether it is in the US or in the world, have some sustainability goals relative to their packaging and a common goal is percent of post-consumer content or recycled content. So, when we look at when we look at really big brands, and I do not want to name names, most of their goals are coming online 2025 or 2030 with significant percentages of post-consumer content; so we are encouraged by that. The other thing that we have seen recently and this is very recent, State of California just passed legislation a few months ago that will require 15% recycled content in single-use beverage containers by 2022 and then 25% by 2025 and 50% by 2030. So if we start to see more public policy like that, in other states then obviously that that will bode well for demand in the marketplace and ultimately that circularity that we talked about.

John: Got it. For our listeners who just joined us, we have got Pete Keller today. He is the VP of recycling and sustainability. He is also my friend and he is at Republic Services. To find Republic Services and all the great work Pete and his colleagues are doing, please go to www.republicservices.com. Pete, a lot of people now are tired of hearing about what is going on in the world. We know that our new administration is going to go back and re-sign the Paris Accord and a lot of things are coming online. There is a green deal that is out there that people are talking about but just the man, the woman and the young millennial on the street wants to know about actions, how they could actually now become part of the solution instead of either just complaining about it or saying that they want to do something but not doing anything about it. You are, again, in such a fascinating and unique position, what are some of your better recommendations for people who really want to be part of the solution and take action now in terms of recycling and being part of the new green economy?

Pete: Yes and relative to that interface with our customers, we try to give them simple things to remember; just ways to be better recyclers and the ways to contribute to a cleaner environment. Unfortunately, in America, all recycling programs are not designed the same, right? So you go from community or [inaudible], things that are acceptable maybe a little bit different. So one of the things we tell our customers is know what to throw and all we mean by that is become familiar with what is acceptable on recycling programs in your municipality or your city. The other thing we like to say, John, and this is our version of stop, drop and roll but we like to say, “empty, clean and dry”. So make sure that your recycling materials are empty, clean and dry. All our customers will say that is kind of difficult or you are not making it easy on us. We are not asking folks to run their recyclables through the dishwasher or anything like that. [inaudible] and shake them out but it is important. So if we get a half a jar of mayonnaise or a quarter jar of ketchup, then that can actually contaminate perfectly good cardboard or paper and render those other materials as unmarketable. So it is really important that folks remember that “empty, clean and dry”. Then, this last thing, John, surprises a lot of people but we tell our customers: Do not bag it. We actually receive a lot of recyclable materials in bags. So I think people probably do that under their kitchen sinks or for convenience purposes but when we receive a bag in our recycling centers, we do not recycle that material. We do not have the time to stop the machines and tear those bags open. We have also found that can be a safety concern because we do not always know what is in those bags. So that is something that we also tell our customers just to ensure that they are being better recycler. So hopefully that is all helpful to the audience.

John: Pete, I am on your website now, recyclingsimplified.com and I have spent a couple hours on it, leading up to today’s interview. It is such a great website, but I do not want to give it away. I want you to share: why did you guys develop it and what is its main purpose?

Pete: Well, we developed it because education and outreach foundations, the cornerstones of successful recycling programs in the US so that the communities that have invested in educational longest have the most participation and the cleanest materials. Again, we are focused on simple messaging so, I do not do not want to be over-technical and the website contains a variety of different types of materials. We have collateral there that can be downloaded. You do not have to be a customer of Republic Services to pull this information down. So, things like brochures, three folds, things you could tack up on your refrigerator – there is a number of different, we call them kind of expert tip videos. There is actually K through 12 curriculum on there that educators can download and that is segmented for different age groups. So there is some really useful materials and simple messaging available to the public at large. You can download and edit the collateral as you see fit. The more people that we can help become better educated then ultimately, we can help improve recycling programs across the country.

John: When did you launch that site, Pete?

Pete: 2018.

John: How is it going? How has been the journey since?

Pete: It is great. We have had a lot of things happen in the marketplace since we launched; obviously the pandemic this year and China continues to ratchet down acceptable recyclables in their country. For the audience, in 2017, China represented the largest market for recovered materials in the world and starting January 1st, just few days from now, they are going to exit that market altogether. So there have been pretty big shifts in the flow of recyclable materials over the last three years, but to answer your question on recycling simplified. We have had a lot of great feedback on that campaign and the materials that are available there.

John: Pete, you just mentioned that we are having this conversation in 2020 and the Covid tragedy or pandemic is still ongoing, hopefully we are closer to the end than we are to the beginning as science seems to be winning this real tragic period in world history. I have the unique opportunity over the last sixteen or seventeen years to get to know your leadership team at Republic Services and I have learned more from them including you and your colleagues about Waste and Recycling and Leadership than any company that I have ever interacted with; share a little bit about how your team has reacted to the Covid pandemic and how you have navigated maintaining your great services across the nation and servicing your municipalities, as you said is that over 2,500, keeping your recycling centers open and also serving the great people of the United States of America.

Pete: Well, it has been absolutely remarkable what our team has been able to do. It is inspiring and humbling to be part of the entire experience. As most of the country, John, we kind of shut down for forty-eight hours. When I say shut down, shutdown the home office, but to your point, we never shut down. Obviously, the work that we do is considered essential. It has been considered essential during the entire pandemic. In the early days, our focus was on our employees and if you cannot keep your employees safe and healthy, you cannot continue to work. Fortunately, or unfortunately, business continuity is actually a function for our company and it has been a [inaudible] for a long time. We are really good at responding to things like tornadoes, hurricanes and wildfires. So when the pandemic hit, we had that team and we had those protocols in place, so we were able to respond pretty quickly in those early days of pandemic. When you think about some of the personal protective equipment like masks and shields, we were fortunate in the sense that the company always purchase those supplies. So those supply changes were already set up and we already had that type of material in inventory so we did not skip a beat there. But when you think about our business, most of our people start at the same time. They all come in and hit the time clocks, usually we have safety [inaudible] every day and so we had to modify the way that we go to work. We had to modify how we work and then in recycling facilities, it is pretty common to have a lot of people working in close proximity; so where we could not create social distancing, we had to create physical barriers like a lot of what everybody has now seen, that is the plexiglass separation.

Pete: In the very early days when we could not get plexiglass, we were hanging things like shower curtains or whatever we can get our hands on. So those are some of the things we did and continue to do. We also created a program that we call ‘committed to serve’ and these was gift cards we gave to our frontline workers for several months and we encourage them to spend those gift cards at local businesses. So it is helping our employees but also helping our communities at the same time and that was a pretty significant investment. So those are some of the things that we have done and I am proud to say that we have been able to operate at all locations during this entire terrible time.

John: That is incredible. Pete, we mentioned earlier about ESG, circular economy, sustainability and things of that such; when you joined Republic, it was an interesting time in terms of what I have seen, you come on and you are making the company greener and more sustainable and that is great for constituents and your user base out there, but has the world even ratcheted up to the point where now all of the ESG and recycling and sustainability behavior your company is engaging in and leaving in, frankly speaking, is now also something that is very attractive and important to the analysts and to Wall Street and the investor base [inaudible] and even the young kids out there on the street, on their Robin Hood apps investing in companies that are making the world a better place, has your role become a more of duality than singular over the years? Is that something that you have seen or am I off base a little bit on that?

Pete: Well, the role has certainly evolved, John and a lot more attention for [inaudible]. Anybody can look at ESG investing over the course of the last few years and just [inaudible] exponential growth in that space. I guess I spend more time with our investor relations group these days than certainly I did ten years ago. Again, I cannot speak intelligently about what the Robin Hood investors are doing, but we believe that it has created a lot of value. In our sustainability work, we also think it helps us attract and retain the best employees, right? You mentioned millennials and they are very interested in what companies are doing in terms of sustainability. So it is a big part for us and we believe of our employee engagement. It is important for things other than just that investment community, if you will.

John: Right and I need to share this with our listeners in terms of you are a publicly traded company and you have been on Forbes best employers for women’s list, the Dow Jones sustainability industries and [inaudible] institute’s world’s most ethical companies. I mean, you guys have earned your stripes and you continue to lead the way and I am just really grateful for you spending some time with us today, Pet. Any last thoughts before we have to say goodbye today, of course, you are always welcome back here because I love you guys and I love what your mission is and how great you do it and you are one of the leaders in the world, but I want to give you the last word before we sign off for today.

Pete: You are very kind. I am just very appreciative of the opportunity to talk to you today. It was good to hear your voice. Again, if any of your listeners have any follow-up or questions about Republic Services, it is at republicservices.com. So happy to talk to you, John.

John: Hey Pete, also for our listeners out there, there are also these great K through 12 series that Pete spoke about earlier recyclingsimplified.com. It is a wonderful website. I have spent hours on it and you can get a lot out of that website as well. Pete Keller, you are one of the great leaders in sustainability. You are making great impacts every day with Republic Services and all your colleagues and friends there that I know and I just really appreciate your time today and also the fact that you make the world a better place. Thank you for being on the Impact Podcast.

Pete: Thanks, John.

John Shegerian: This edition of The Impact podcast is brought to you by Engage. Engage is a digital booking engine revolutionizing the talent booking industry. With hundreds of athletes, entrepreneurs, speakers, and business leaders Engage is the go-to spot for booking talent for your next event. For more information, please visit letsengage.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of The Impact podcast. I am so honored to have you with us today, Hector Guadalupe. He is the executive director of A Second U Foundation. Welcome to The Impact podcast, Hector.

Hector Guadalupe: Thank you so much for having me, brother. How is everything?

John: Everything is great and we are still living in this crazy pandemic. I know that. It is such an honor to have you on. I read and learned about you, Hector. I know we are doing this coast to coast. I am in California and you are in New York today, but to do this together is really an honor for me because this is part of my DNA and my soul. Before we get talking about all the great things you are doing in A Second U Foundation, can you share a little bit about the Hector Guadalupe story? Your backstory?

Hector: Sure. Well, to put things and to create an experience for yourself, the listeners, and everybody else out there. My reality of New York was not Disney. You go to New York now, it is beautiful. It looks great, but I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I feel like I have survived a lot of pandemics.

John: Where were you born and when did you grow a lot?

Hector: Born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. Flushing and Williamsburg, Brooklyn. I have had my family throughout the entire Brooklyn, but it was just a different time. It was a dangerous time. It was a corrupt time with law enforcement and the government. People did what they had to do to survive and raise their families. Both my parents are deceased and growing up young without too much guidance like many kids throughout the boroughs, your foster kind of have to find your way. My role models were older peers in the community that were also raised the same way without guidance, family, and parents. These role models were the men and women who traffic narcotics. That became my profession and from thirteen years old to twenty-three, trafficking up and down the Eastern Seaboard from Cape Cod, Massachusetts down to Miami to the Midwest and back. That was my life. It was my means of survival. There was no way out. It is hard for a lot of people to understand that when I am talking at different companies, with clients, or with other communities where I am sharing my story. I pretty much give the example of a picture of you as a young kid growing up in poverty. It is like coming out every day with like a blindfold on, right? You cannot really figure out how to get out of those x amounts of blocks that you grew up in. It is like just trying to navigate without really having a…

John: A map. You did not have a map.

Hector: Yes. It is tough.

John: How many siblings did you have?

Hector: I have one sister.

John: Older or younger?

Hector: Younger. We figured it out. I am very blessed to even be talking to you right now and be alive.

John: I am blessed to have you on our show today because this is a story today for our listeners and viewers, we are not going to give away anything yet, but this is not a story of just survival. You are not a survivor, Hector. In many ways, I see you as a thriver. You have got a great story to share here and I want you to get into it a little bit. Were your parents alive from the time you were thirteen to twenty-three or were they already deceased?

Hector: No, they were deceased due to cancer. I feel like the biggest threat in any community is poverty. It forces you to have to survive. It forces your instincts to kick in and you do what you have to do and hopefully, you make it out. But by the age of twenty-three, the FBI released the indictment and started their manhunt for me.

John: Were you the leader or were you just a part of a larger network of young dealers?

Hector: I kept my network small. We were part of a larger network. I never implemented and that kept me in the range of ten to life. The more people involved, the bigger the indictment. I grew up in the days of gaudy and the mob in New York. My whole thought process was always keeping things small, tight, and simple. Because in the big scheme of things, I do not want a bunch of people affected by my actions. So, I was sentenced to ten years to life, and in the federal system, I have probably visited about five to six different prisons throughout the country.

John: Before we get to that, I just want to understand a little bit more here because it is fascinating for our listeners and our viewers to learn. You were not only taking care of yourself without any guidance and parents but you were also, I assume, taking care of your sister. You were not surviving for yourself, you were also surviving for your sister to make good for her.

Hector: Entire family. And not only that, the guys that I was raised under made seventy to eighty grand a day. These skills that I was taught when I came up under are transferable skills today in business and why we were able to, as you say, thrive. And the reason why I am in philanthropy, we will get to that later, but these men and women that I was raised by and is in the work that I was doing, it was always part of the game to give back. Not only taking care of your family but paying people in the community’s bills that could not make rent. People that could not keep the heat on. People that did not have food in their fridge.

John: You became like the godfather to your community.

Hector: Every real one that had to do whatever they had to do, did that for their community. For me and my team, that was something that was very important. It is the reason why we are still welcomed by the city today.

John: That is so wonderful. I cannot even imagine people out there that have grown up with at least one parent, and they thought that was tough to have no parents. So many people complain about little things every day and they got an intact household. So, to do what you did for those ten years, I just cannot even imagine but I am glad you are sharing it because we can all learn from each other.

Hector: Totally. Experiences and stories, man. Stories are everything. The more we are open to listening to the next person’s story, it will totally give perspective and change our lives as well.

John: Amen. So, you get sentenced to ten years to life. You know, Hector, even though I grew up not with a lot in Queens. A little bit even on welfare because we had a little bit of a tough time. It was nothing like your thing. Is prison like it is on television or is it exponentially worse? I do not know anything about it.

Hector: To be honest with you, the stuff you see on TV is like a joke. It is like fabricated stuff. But the film that Second Chances Matter, which is our media company, is going to be putting out is probably going to be some of the strongest and most authentic film and theater created, and podcast. Obviously, you will be in touch so you will be first on deck to receive a lot of this material. We are definitely going to shed light on the real issues that go on in there. I got guys in there right now with COVID and everybody in the prison who has COVID, they threw them all in one dorm together. All the sick people together in a dorm instead of separating them, and then shut down all the phones in their lives of communication with the family members. They are not going to talk about that shit on Netflix. You are not going to see a TV show expressing or showcasing the harsh realities of that shit. It is tougher than what you see.

John: That is tough. And you were transferred over those ten years? You must have been the exemplary person there to get out in the most minimum of your sentence, ten to life. I cannot even imagine thinking about one night.

Hector: I was about empowering people in there. Not only just dudes that were working out because wellness was like my tool. I already knew how to manage teams. I already knew how to get people excited. I already knew how to prospect. I already knew how to close sales before landing there. So, once I learned something that was positive and legal, I just bridged communities while I was in there. It became a thing. My first experience of training people and thinking about entering the fitness industry was with my experience in prison.

John: Wait for a second, here is where I get confused. When I see prison on television or read about it, it sounds like the food is high carb and not good. How do you find two things? How did you start figuring out that wellness was your thing given that you were just coming off of a very chaotic and hard way of living from thirteen to twenty-three? How were you able to implement it in a prison structure where typically good food, vegan food, plant-based food, low-fat food, or the better high protein food is not the way it typically is? Explain how that all came together for you.

Hector: One of the prisons I was in is in Fort Dix, New Jersey. It is our nation’s biggest military base in the country. They have a federal prison on the base and that is where I spent four years out of my ten. I ran the gym near me and two other brothers. That was my job. So, having access to the equipment is the first place that I started selling personal training. Once I started making a profit off of our personal training services in the prison with a lot of high-end clients in there that were doing time. From Enron guys to you name it. They were all in there with us. These were like our clients.

John: Were you given the gym because you were such on the best behavior? Was that a reward to give you the gym? Was that a sort of a penny because you were already showing signs that this was not who you really were?

Hector: John. I wish it was that easy. You do not get rewarded in prison no matter how good you are.

John: Okay. I am living in a fairytale.

Hector: You gave them a lot of credit. The better you do, the more you get beat down in there. But what I did was the person that I knew could get me the job, I gave him a thousand dollars under the table to get me the job. That was how I got the job.

John: Transferable skills. I like it. You are a closer.

Hector: I had to survive. So, once I got the job it was a great way for me to gain all this experience and all this material I have been reading. I got all these certifications. While I was serving time, this presents five thousand people. That is the clientele of a corporate health club in Manhattan. I had way more clients than we could handle. What I started doing is we have access to what is called The Store, which is a commissary. All of the systems in the country are the same as schools and the military. Everybody has a commissary. You have this, you have that, right? So do people that are serving time. You are allowed to spend three or four hundred dollars a month on food. So, instead of going to the chow hall where the food, you were mentioning d-class food, instead of going there I would spend all my money at the canteen commissary and get all the vegetables and meats I need. We cook. A lot of us cook our own food in there.

John: Really? Can you explain that though?

Hector: That is a whole another podcast.

John: Okay, that is another podcast. That means you are going to come back on and we are going to do that as another podcast.

Hector: Totally.

John: So, because of what you were doing and how you were creating this ecosystem, you got access to good clean food. You were able to start eating right and getting your clientele to eat right.

Hector: Totally. And what is sad is law enforcement people that are hired to watch inmates or people that are serving time, correction officers, these people are not really paid much. These people are not treated well, so, they can be bought as well and end up bringing you Starbucks. We were walking around with Prada shoes on and so forth, right? You can laugh about it but that is how sad the whole system is, right?

John: It is broken. You are saying it is broken on every level?

Hector: On every level, you can imagine. With our projects, we are going to be touching this on as well as what I am talking to you about. Not everybody in the prison obviously, but we made sure we had access to good nutrition and we just made the best with time.

John: Explain this to me. Now you are in charge of the gym, you are doing the food the right way, and making the best of what you have. Were you starting to train? Some of these are, like you said, Enron, other visitors, and you were building up a clientele list already?

Hector: We had a huge clientele list. When I was about to leave that prison and go to another one, which was in Maryland, I pretty much sold the business to somebody else in that.

John: Really? So, you really had your own private gym, and now, you are selling it to the next person?

Hector: It sounds funny because you are in prison, right?

John: It is funny, but this is great. Listen. Besides doing another podcast, Hector. I am not telling you what to do and I know you already thought of this because you have got already an entrepreneur spirit and brain, obviously. This is who you really are as a human being. I do not know how many books in you, but you got books that you have got to start getting down, man.

Hector: Well, John, before the Second Chances Matter podcast launches this fall, I will talk to you again.

John: We are going to do it. We are going to talk about that. That is going to be awesome. So, you go to Maryland and you start all over again there? Do you have to start from the bottom?

Hector: Yes, I know, but it is fine. The main thing is finding productive ways to kill time and it is the same thing during the pandemic right now. All of us and your listeners right now, right? Some people are going through a lot. You cannot pick and choose how life goes. So right now, everybody has something in common with me because of the pandemic.

John: Wait a second. We are all going through this tragic and horrific period together. It sucks for everybody, Hector. Not only Americans, but everyone around the world is going through it. Is your message really how you choose to deal with it, was what will define you?

Hector: A hundred percent. People have to understand that no matter what is going on in the world, the time is still yours. You still have control of your time and how you use it. A lot of our clients that we have been coaching it is like, “You got to get back to your basics, regiment, rituals. All of that works within you. How do you serve yourself at this time?”

John: Hector, we are very blessed to have this company now. We built it from scratch. And my message to the employees here, we have about twelve hundred employees, is when I started hearing in the media that all one day, we are all going to go back to a new normal, new normal sounds like the white flag is up. It is like we are defeated. I tell people, “Use this time to make the company and to make yourselves first a new better, so when we get to the other side, let us all be a new better.” Is it not that the way you live as well with what you have created?

Hector: Before the pandemic, everything I do is eighteen months ahead of time. If you are not innovating, you are going to die. You have to be innovating during a pandemic or not.

John: So, you spent ten years and now you are twenty-three to thirty-three years old. You went to five different prisons. Now, you get out at the bare minimum. Something went right and God was on your side. Whatever it was, all the stars aligned for you and you get out at thirty-three years old. Your life is starting new. What happened? How did you even imagine what the next step is? I cannot even believe coming out and seeing a whole new world. What did it look like and what were the first steps that you took?

Hector: Put it like this. When I had like six months left on my sentence, I had these ideas of putting together a transportation company where family members can be driven to prison to visit their loved ones and back home. I had that put together and there was a couple of other ideas. A friend of mine, a gentleman named Corey Leftwich, laughed at me so hard. He shot holes through my businesses. He was just a very intelligent person and an entrepreneur himself. He made a lot of money from the market even before he came home. It was just very sharp. He said, “All these years you have been training people in shape. What makes you think fitness was not a good idea for you.” I was stuck. I was looking at him like the biggest fool and he was like, “Stop playing. Go home to Manhattan and kill it.” That was it. And I am like, “After all these years of living my life dedicated to wellness while in prison, how did I not think about being a personal trainer when I got home?”

John: Interesting. You just shocked me. Sounds like that was your calling and then like you said you were literally making a left-hand turn going in a different direction.

Hector: Yes, it was so funny. But anyway, after that conversation and I had all of these national certifications already because I did a lot of correspondence courses. I worked for myself a ton. When I got home to New York, man, it was obviously a new world. But nobody wanted to hire me. That was frustrating. In my first eight or nine months home, I am without a job. It was hard.

John: And just for all of our sake and for our listeners who just joined us, we are so honored to have with us today in The Impact podcast, Hector Guadalupe. He is the executive director of A Second U Foundation. You can find them at www.asecondufoundation.org. Hector, wait a second. When you were thirty-three, what year was that? Just so we have a little perspective on the timing of where we are.

Hector: I am an old man now. I think that was like the end of 2012?

John: Well, you look like you are thirty-three right now so you are not an old man. I am an old man. I am fifty-eight. You do not look like an old man. Let me just tell you that right now. So, that was about the end of 2012. You learn the harsh reality of employers, even though they all talk great games and everything like that.

Hector: It is discrimination.

John: Yes, it is discrimination. They do not want to hire ex-felons and the whole deal. It is just a mess.

Hector: To this day. We obviously have a pretty decent following now, so it is not as bad as it used to be. Boutique gyms and corporate health clubs still discriminate against people that have a past, but twenty percent of the fitness industry, the best lead trainers are all formerly incarcerated. This is something that is a fact but that just shows you the systemic system in place to keep people down. With it being a wellness industry, you would think it would be a loving industry, but it is not.

John: It should be democratized, but it is not.

Hector: It is not at all. It is very fake. It is very phony. It is something that we are here to change. We had to put compassion in the wellness industry.

John: I love it. So now, you are eight or nine months in and you are hitting a wall. How did you breakthrough? What was your breakthrough? What was your ‘aha’ moment? Laying in bed or just figuring this whole thing out how you were going to get to the other side.

Hector: I got tired of sitting around waiting for somebody to call me for an interview. I got tired. It was like eight or nine months. I am tired. I knew a friend that was a trainer at a corporate health club on Fifth Avenue down in the Union Square area. I called him up and I said, “Dude, I want to come by for a workout. Can you get me in your gym?” And he said, “Sure. I will be training clients but come by.” Anyway, he gets me in. I am working out. I am like checking out the gym. It was beautiful. It was all this high-end stuff and I am really excited. I am like, “Man, I really wish I had an opportunity like this.” Towards the end of my workout, I watched the manager going to her office. I walked into the office. I introduced myself, and I told her, “I really need a job. I really need an opportunity. Can you please? Everybody has turned me down. Can you please give me a job?” She laughed because I was so hungry. I was so hungry. I was tired of sitting in the house all day just working out and reading and I wanted to be productive. I wanted to give back to people. I wanted to empower people the way I did for men and the staff when I was in prison. She ended up giving me a shot and fast forward to x amount of years, we took over that entire area. Now it is a couple hundred of us, who were all formerly incarcerated, probably training a little over a thousand clients.

John: Wait a second. So, this was in a name-brand gym that you got to start in? She gave you the start?

Hector: Yes. I would not even give them the credit of naming them.

John: That is not the point, but it was an already named branch. That is when you started then.

Hector: I spent my first four years with no day off. I worked for four years straight to try to build up the strongest clientele I can. And, man, those who did time with me who was coming home, I was paying for their certification manuals and book materials. I was helping them get the experience and teaching them how to pass the test. That is how it all started back then. I did not think of it becoming a company or a foundation. I did not know anything at the time. I just knew how I felt when I came home. I knew what that pain felt like. I knew what that frustration and stress felt like when nobody wants to give you a hand.

John: Going back to what you shared earlier about your run from thirteen to twenty-three. It was not only about you and your sister, you were taking care of others then. So again, your transferable skills from there, when you were on the other side of this you gained, you were basically implementing those same skills of creating a tribe, let us just call it a tribe, that you were lifting up, empowering, and giving a voice to.

Hector: Totally. Which is still the mission to this day.

John: Right. I love it. I just love it. Now, let us talk about that. Now, how many young people are working for you that used to be incarcerated? And how many clients do you guys have?

Hector: You cannot keep track. For example, during COVID we were featured in The New York Times and on CNN. The clients that we had in New York used to be our biggest following. Now, our biggest following is throughout the rest of the country and globally.

John: Now, you treat people online.

Hector: Yes, our entire service is online.

John: Which everyone is getting used to because no one wants to go to a gym anymore and get exposed to potentially get COVID. You literally were way ahead of the game and they had an opportunity now to take your company. You could be the physical trainer for anyone. You become the real-life Peloton.

Hector: We are the real-life Peloton, but with real stories though.

John: Right, which is even more fascinating because that motivates people more. If you are training me and I get to know you, of course, which always happens when you work with the trainer. We become close, I say to myself, “If Hector did this, he climbed this kind of mountain. He climbed Everest. All he is asking me is climb this, shame on me if I cannot even do this. This man in front of me has done this.”

Hector: Oh, the exchange in sessions with our clients and the corporations that train with us, it is unreal.

John: Now, I take it that it is not the only male incarcerated, but also female incarcerated.

Hector: Totally. We welcome more women in anything. It is men and women. We are just really excited and grateful.

John: Oh my God. Hector, help me out here. You said you have a couple of hundred young people working for you and let us just say a little over a thousand clients. This business that you have created can become twenty times bigger than it is five years from now when you are back on this podcast. But way before then, you are going to come back later this year. You are starting something that is unbelievably unique. I am a lifelong entrepreneur. This is fascinating. Because post-pandemic, they say a huge percentage of people are never going back to a gym anyway.

Hector: We are totally just scratching the surface and going to really take off in the next coming years.

John: This is fascinating. You have clients not only in the United States but you have around the world.

Hector: Most of our clients now, at least half, are all throughout the rest of our country and abroad.

John: This is beyond fascinating to me. For our listeners out there that want to hire Hector’s people go to asecondufoundation.org. I am on your site now and it is fascinating. You take on people by themselves, but you also take on corporate clients as well, right?

Hector: Totally. We got some corporate clients that are diehards. They are part of the community and they back us. We are building something that will unify communities globally.

John: This is great and you do not only do workouts but also talk about your experience back in prison. Also, diet and nutrition and you take them on the whole ecosystem, the whole-body approach to get to this.

Hector: Totally. We also work on a lot of yoga. We have mindfulness practices and we work on a lot of corrective exercises, which is like a smaller form of physical therapy.

John: How do people learn about you that are in prison that want to work with A Second U Foundation? How do you recruit new people and give them hope for when they get out, they are going to have a place in society?

Hector: We hold workshops through Zoom and WebEx at prisons. The old employment workshops where we educate people that are on their way home about us and our services. We also partner with federal halfway houses throughout New York City, as well as all other larger dot org that focus on re-entry. We have tons of ways that we recruit and just excited to grow.

John: We were talking off the air earlier, I was telling you about my experience living in LA as a real estate developer during the tragic Rodney King or what they call now the Los Angeles Riots of the early 90s, and how I befriended Father Greg Boyle and how we started something called Homeboy Tortillas. Which was basically a branch that came out of his Dolores Mission proc do pasta real deal. And I said Father Greg Boyle had a great line back then still holds today, nineteen or eighteen years later, “Nothing stops a bullet faster than a job.” Powerful, right Hector?

Hector: I am stealing that.

John: Steal it, man, and use it. I want that. I want you to steal it. It is truer today than ever before, and what the kids that we were helping back then from East LA have used to tell me is that they just wanted a place to belong because they knew that the gang life that they were living on the streets of East LA had two ways they were going to end up. Either dead or in prison. And so, they just wanted a job. They were so happy to be doing anything. I can imagine the massive hope that if I was in prison and I had lived a life of hopelessness before and of all sorts of prejudice before. To hear about what you are doing and to see that glimmer of hope as an olive branch, it must be so wonderful to bring on new and more people on a regular basis because you get to relive what you have done already and give those people hope.

Hector: We love it and we are dedicated. There is so much more to go though. It is so much more with creating. We have documentaries. We have a docu-series soon being put together.

John: Who is working with you on this? Tell me who is working with some of this stuff. How is that going and what are we going to see in the months and years ahead? I know when they start coming out, I will have you back on and we will promote them when they happen. How are they happening? Who has seen you and who wants to do these documentaries and stuff? How is that happening?

Hector: We are working with Honcho Entertainment, which we are putting together partnered with the Second Chances Matter media company. We have partnered to put together a docu-series that is being pitched to Netflix and all the other VOD platforms at the end of this quarter actually. That is exciting. Full 2021. We are super pumped. Wait till you hear the trailer of the Second Chances Matter podcast.

John: You are going to be hosting that?

Hector: Yes. I am the host and my partner Maksim Polsky, who is an amazing producer. An award-winning producer who also did time with me and was my first client in prison.

John: What did he do time for?

Hector: For a white-collar crime.

John: Got it.

Hector: This is going to be one of the strongest things to hit the airwaves.

John: I am sure of it. This is going to be incredible. You are changing the world. You are giving people hope. There is so much hopelessness out there, Hector, you and I know that. You are giving people hope that does not exist now. We talked about the problems that exist for kids that are without parents and for prisons that are broken in every which way as you pointed out, but let us talk about re-entry. One of the things I learned long ago through Homeboy was the recidivism rates in America are off the charts. What are they today? And talk about the people that you trained at A Second U Foundation and compare the general population recidivism rates with A Second U Foundation recidivism rates.

Hector: Well, John, the recidivism rate is still the same as when you last checked.

John: Sixty plus percent, right? Sixty plus percent.

Hector: It is close to that still to this day. And the reason for that is because there is a difference between career placement and giving someone a job. The reason why A Second U Foundation has a zero-recidivism rate is because through our program if you look at the fitness industry, think of what you pay for a session with a trainer. That is the money. So, guess what? Creating programs, education, and employment that have livable wages, that is the cure. We cannot say, “Thanks for doing twenty years. Take this broom and I am going to give you fifteen dollars an hour to go mop a hallway.” That person is not going to spend the next ten years mopping that floor. There is a high chance of that person taking a risk at something one day because they cannot even pay to eat with fifteen dollars an hour. In the fitness industry, once they are employed, they start at thirty to thirty-five dollars an hour. They top out at seventy-five dollars an hour. They receive full corporate benefits. They learn about their 401(k) plan, health care, dental. They get everything.

John: You are really giving the folks that do your program in that work for A Second U. You are giving the holistic way to live in terms of understanding, not only how to make a living wage, but how to also plan for the future. As you say, at least eighteen months in advance of their future.

Hector: When people are provided livable wages, you will never see them go back to prison.

John: Awesome, but that does not get talked about in the media like you said. They get some sort of social re-entry program that could be not a livable wage anymore, and that is where the recidivism rate starts kicking them back to the old life they knew.

Hector: One hundred percent. The hundred and ninety-six graduates we have, can you imagine how many family members and people eat off of that? Are being provided for?

John: The domino effect is massive.

Hector: Totally.

John: Each one of them is a beacon of hope to other people that they went to prison with or other people that they knew on the streets growing up and saying, “Oh my gosh. If Bobby could do it, if Hector could do it, if Johnny could do it, if Shirley could do it, I can do it too.”

Hector: We get a lot of referrals through word of mouth.

John: Is anyone in the system starting to see that and starting to say, “Wait a second. Instead of me referring them over to the Starbucks, I am going to refer them over to Hector instead.” or is the system starting to catch on and getting with it or not yet?

Hector: The system needs you to keep coming back.

John: Maintain the status quo. The system does not become the system anymore if the status quo gets broken.

Hector: Exactly. We network with tons of people in the re-entry space institutions, detention centers, and prisons, but none of them are really that helpful without us pushing and being aggressive with our approach to help others.

John: That is incredible. You are a young man still, thank God, and you have a big vision. For our listeners, again, to find Hector or to hire Hector and a hundred ninety-six of his great graduates for either your company or for yourself. Be a better you and be the best you can be when we get through this pandemic. We are not close to the end. It is going to take another six months to a year for all of us to get back saying a herd immunity to happen. So, be a better you. You have got to go to asecondufoundation.org. Where are we going to be five years from now, Hector? Tell me your vision for five years because I want to hear not eighteen months from now, I want to hear five years from now. Where can this be?

Hector: Five years from now, we will be the future of re-entry and rehabilitation. So, what that means is if you could think and imagine right now, Canyon Ranch. You look at Canyon Ranch and that is going to be A Second U Foundation sixty months from now. Instead of being sent home to these fast-paced cities with all this stress and anxiety, they will be sent to a place within nature where they could have a beautiful dorm and not be in a halfway house with metal detectors. They can be released to our property treated as a human with bed space like a normal person. Take their programming and have access to mental therapy. Have access to nature, peace, mindfulness practices. We want to have our own land so they can be taught vegetation and all these great things about being welcomed and treated as a human. Once you graduate, you will enter the city and you will be one of the best trainers they have ever seen in their lives.

John: That is awesome. How long is your training program? I forgot to ask that earlier.

Hector: A Second U program is eight weeks straight, six days a week, and one class per quarter. Aside from our curriculum, we work on tons of soft skills as well. We offer nutrition certs as well and mindfulness practices. There is a lot of yoga meditation, sharing, and mentorship. All the necessary things to make someone coming home feel loved and part of a family. Community is important.

John: For people that are watching, hearing, or reading this podcast, because we give it in three different versions. We transcribe it so people can read it. We of course do this video version and audio version. So, we give everybody access to this anyways. If they are not in prison, but they want to support your great work and they believe in your vision, which I do not know how anyone could not believe in the vision after listening to you, Hector. Honest to good God, thank God for you. How can they get involved and support what you are doing? Give some other methodologies of supporting your great and important work…

Hector: Right now, we are looking for people that can offer resources. On our website, there is a donation button, of course, and sponsorship kits if you want to get your company involved. We also are excited for people to actually want to support train with one of our coaches and help someone keep a strong flow of employment and see what that exchange in that session feels like, and refer a friend. When it comes to community-wise, we urge people to do something for someone. Do something good for someone. Go out your way in your community, no matter what it is, find a way to help somebody.

John: I love it. Do something for someone. Do not only just think about yourself, think outward. So, when you say sponsor someone does that mean corporations and people like me can sponsor someone coming out?

Hector: Totally.

John: How much does a sponsorship per person costs?

Hector: The education and program for each person are about twelve hundred dollars. There is a button on the website.

John: Perfect. The website, again, for all of our listeners and viewers is asecondufoundation.org. Is there a waiting list of people who want to become students that are waiting for sponsors or how does that work?

Hector: Always. We are always recruiting. Recruiting is all year round. Right now, we have a cohort that started December 7th. They have two weeks left and then we will be starting up another class in the next four weeks.

John: So, there is always a waiting list of people that are looking for sponsors to get trained.

Hector: Totally.

John: Wow. That is beautiful. Well, Hector, here is the deal. I love what you are doing. I want to support what you are doing. First of all, I am going to sponsor some of your students. Number two, I also want you to know that you are always welcome back here. I want you to keep coming back here. And even though you are going to have your own podcast, I want you to come back on The Impact because I want you to keep sharing your journey as you keep progressing and creating a bigger and greater vision. It is important in every way we can to get your message out, so more people hear it and more people start becoming part of the solution than the problem. As you say, there are so many broken chains along the way in society. And for our listeners out there that want to find Hector, his great organization, his trainers, and support by sponsoring students by hiring them and for bringing them into your corporation to get people healthy so when we get through this pandemic, we can all be our best selves, go to www.asecondufoundation.org. Hector Guadalupe, God bless you and the work that you are doing. You are a blessing today to be on The Impact. You are a blessing to all of us in America. You are going to change the re-entry world. I have great faith in what you are going to do and thank you for being a guest here today. I cannot wait to have you back on.

Hector: Thank you so much, John. Thanks for having me.

John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by ERI. ERI has a mission to protect people, the planet, and your privacy and is the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States and maybe even the world. For more information on how ERI can help your business properly dispose of outdated electronic hardware devices, please visit eridirect.com.

John: Welcome to another edition of the Impact podcast. I am John Shegerian. I am so excited and honored today to have my longtime friend and also the President of the Waste Management Recycle America Program, Brent Bell on with us today. Welcome to impact, Brent.

Brent Bell: Thank you, John. I am so excited to be here and have this conversation with you today.

John: Yes. I wish we were together but it is still were living through this tragic COVID period and you are in Houston and I am in Fresno, but this is just good enough for now and it is just an honor to have you on because you are really one of the most important players in the recycling industry. But before our conversation begins, I really want you to share a little bit about your background leading up to Waste Management and how you even got here for our listeners who have not met you yet.

Brent: Yes, sure, John. So I am going to share a story of when I was a kid growing up. I had a fascination for Hot Wheels and for cars which I still do. I still have a passion for cars. At the time, I recognize that aluminum can, you could go and collect aluminum cans whether they are in ditches or either through schools and bag them up and bring them to a local metal scrap yard. They would pay you for those cans. And at the time, I had no idea about the environmental impact. I was doing it purely for the money to get my Hot Wheels, right?

John: Right.

Brent: So I looked at that and I thought, “Wow, that is so crazy. That people are literally throwing away stuff that is valuable that can be turned into cash essentially.” And so a year later, I went to school in East Texas and with the Stephen F. Austin State University. I graduated from there. One of the best companies at the time, I fell the great company is Southwest Airlines. I had a great experience at Southwest Airlines. That was perfect timing for them. Herb Kelleher was the CEO at the time that I worked there. It has been a few years there and then I went on to get a job at USA Waste which became quickly Waste Management. I started into the recycling group and work my way up over the last twenty-three years to become the President. And so now, I am looking at as when I was a kid, now I can do things that are making money for the company as well as in great for the environment. So it is a job that has both benefits.

John: So you were really a little recycler from the time you are a little guy up to all the way now. So you started very young in this whole thing.

Brent: I did not even know. It was just for a paper Hot Wheels.

John: Way before sustainability became a hot topic or ESG or Inconvenient Truth, you were the original recycler that I did not even know. I know you for years. I did not know that story. I know you love cars, but I did not know you were already recycling back then. That is a great story. Thank you for sharing that. You know, Brent, I have so much respect for you. I have learned so much from you over the years and you are in such an important position at one of the greatest brands in the United States and actually in the world, Waste Management. I want to get into some of the things that are going on right now. In terms of recycling, you are and I know we have had this discussion in person. If you were a standalone company split out from Waste Management, you are the largest, you run the largest recycling company on the planet right now.

Brent: Yes, so we are really big on the residential side and I think what is interesting, John, is it is a big burden of responsibility that comes with that. We manage fifteen million tons of recyclable material a year in North America. One of the things that a few people probably are not aware of because they think of Waste Management is being a North American company is we have a very large export group. And in the last five years, we have been in the top of the largest US exporters in the United States of any kind of material, any kind of product because we have a large group that shipped a lot of the paper over once was China. No longer China, but now to India and other parts of the world. And we have to make sure that all those customers are using the material, recycling material in a sustainable manner even to the point where if we question that, we pull it back. We actually had a policy on plastics where we no longer export residential plastics anymore just because we had concerns about where we going. And so we have to make sure that all of those folks or customers are managing materials in a responsible, sustainable manner that we can depend on.

John: That is so interesting. And for our listeners out there that want to find Brent and his colleagues and all the great work they are doing, you can go to www.wm.com. It is a little bit of a head fake and that your company’s name is Waste Management as a whole and that is your URL, of course, your online, but you run Waste Management Recycle America so most people do not understand that you really are making the world a better and greener place and you are running that division. So with regards to that when you say it is very important on where you are sending the material, does that mean that material that you send, the paper, for instance, you just mentioned or even plastic that gets recycled, that goes for some sort of beneficial reuse when it is getting recycled?

Brent: Yes, that is right. So it is important to our generating customers, and we kind of call that the inbound customers, it is important for them that they understand what their materials are turning into. And so for example, on the plastic side, we have some really great plastic stories on what we have done with our customer’s material. We work with various companies. They can manufacture plastic. I give a shout-out to KW plastic out of Alabama. They take material now. If you go into a Home Depot or Lowe’s and you pick up a paint can now, look at the bottom of the paint can. You will not believe it, they are usually nowadays made out of polypropylene. No longer they metal paint cans. They are made out of polypropylene. Our customer that takes materials, they will turn it back into a pellet and then turn that into a paint can for example. And what we hear from the retailers that they loved the polypropylene paint cans because they never could sell the cans. They were metal. They had dents in them. No one wanted a dented paint can for some reason and these polypropylene cans are resistant to dents. So it is happy all the way around on that matter in using recycled materials into another product. In this manner, it is the paint can. It is a great example of how these materials turn into things that can get reused.

John: The recycling industry is based on supply and demand. Are you seeing more and more pull from that side like you just used on the paint can example for more materials to be made out of recycled material therefore because the next generation of young constituents who vote with their pocketbook is going to want to buy products that are made out of recycled materials, that is sort of what is going on right now?

Brent: Yes, there are two things, John. I always say there are essentially now two steps to recycling. The first step is to make sure that all of our customers are putting the right items in the bin. We want to make sure that the bin is clean of good items, that they are quality recyclable material. The second step is for that same consumer that just stuck at recycled items in the bin, for them to go out and buy and support brands or manufacturers, they use recycled content in the product. That is so critical because for so long, John, as you can imagine, we had the supply and demand is almost constantly not in balance with each other. I kind of give the example of, going back to cars, if you are a General Motors and you heard next year, no one is going to buy any Corvette anymore, right? No one is gonna buy any Corvette. You stopped buying fiberglass and wheels for Corvettes and Corvette engine. You would not buy those anymore. We are in a unique situation where our inbound ton and in this case 60 or 70 thousand tons a day, comes in no matter how high or low the demand is for that material. We got tricked if you going to come in and drop off recycle material and those consumers do not care if you can sell that to inbound markets. We really have to make sure that supply and demand are in balance and so we have been focusing a lot of attention and effort on increasing the demand side. And it goes all the way back at the federal government during one of the EPA meetings we had in America Recycles Day. I was able to speak to the folks in the room and say, “Listen. It is whether you are the federal government, whether you are a small company or whether you are a consumer, that you are purchasing and your procurement practices include recycled content. That could be your carpet for a new building. It could be uniforms or clothes or uniforms.” And so one of the things we have done to walk on that one, to walk the talk anyway is to make sure that all the carts you see or trash and recyclable material are now made out of recycled plastics. And so we work with some carpenters[?] so that can happen now. We continue to push whether that is brand to use more recycled content. It helps that demand side.

John: That makes so much sense. Brent, just so our listeners get an order of magnitude, I know your footprint is massive in the United States, talk a little bit about how many recycling facilities you have in the United States and what kind of technologies you have deployed in these facilities to help you stay the leading brand in recycling in the world?

Brent: Yes, so we have roughly over a hundred traditional kinds of recycling plants. If you count the organics, it goes closer to a hundred fifty plants that we have that process organic as well. Of those hundred what I call Traditional Recycling Plants, John, they are broken up into what we call Single Stream which is primarily residential. We have commercial facilities which are primarily paper cardboard. And then we have also CND facilities as well. They handle CND recycling which has been growing in certain markets. Those facilities are important. They have different kinds of equipment. But one thing that we started doing and luckily for my bosses at Waste Management had been approving is additional capital on new technology in some of these facilities. As you can imagine, they are fairly labor-intensive which makes them somewhat inefficient in that manner. So what we did a few years back and we sit down with our engineering team in house and said, “We want to build a plant that is automated. It is as fully automated as it can be.” We want to make sure that the materials are very high quality and it can generate a lot of tons per hour. And so the engineering team came back and we went to the board, ultimately get approval for this facility, and that facility opened up earlier this year in Chicago. It is a town called Hoskins, Illinois which is within the Chicago area and that facility is going to be one of the largest in the nation. It can process 66 tons per hour which are doing just over twenty-two to twenty-three thousand tons per month. And that facility is very automated. It gets machines that essentially talk to each other. As you know, the optical sorters which identified different types of material. They can tell other parts of the plant, “Hey, I am seeing too much aluminum cans here and aluminum cans should be caught at another piece of the plant. So why do I see it over here?” And it could flag and indicate that there is an issue with different pieces of equipment. We even have a control center to manage all these different functions and the readout of this plant gives us. So it is really fascinating, the amount of technology that they were starting to see developing some of these facilities.

John: And as you dial that in, Brent, will that then become the norm, and then you will socialize that technology to your other recycling facilities?

Brent: That is right. We have kind of done that. When Chicago opens up, we built one similar in Salt Lake City. A little bit smaller scale just because the market was smaller. And then we have a new facility, we just opened up in Raleigh. So within about a twelve-month period, we have actually opened up four new recycling facilities. And for those that may not know, the recycling prices have been relatively low, pretty low the last few years. And so for Waste Management, it continues to invest in recycling facilities and the recycling investments we have done which has been about a hundred million per year of the last few years is really remarkable. It shows that “Hey, we are committed to recycling, and our bets on that are going to continue to grow in the future.”

John: Speaking of low prices, Brent, on recycled materials, China has also changed their policy dramatically in the last few years with regards to receiving recycle materials. How do you make adjustments and how do you keep your brand resilient and flexible to see these changes in the marketplace and make adjustments so you can still be the leading brand?

Brent: Yes, so China throws us for a loop. In 2017, they announced they were going to ban taking in a mixed paper which essentially mixed paper is non-cardboard stuff. That is kind of your junk mail, could be your high-grade paper. It kind of catch-all for the paper category. And so China announced that they were going to ban mixed paper. And so that put it back on our heels because, at that time, we were exporting about 30% of our material to China and they were a very large customer for us. When they stop that, then, of course, that took a hit on prices. And then heading into 2021, China announced that they were no longer going to take cardboard either, which cardboard has always been great money for China. And honestly, our relationship with China has been great. If you thought about it for the last ten or twenty years, it is a perfect backhaul. We send them empty boxes and they send the boxes back full with products, right? And so it has been a great backhaul relationship we have had back and forth. The Chinese government came out with these policies. I would say that our Chinese paper mill customers are very good customers. They expanded operations in other parts of the world like Southeast Asia. Even here in the US, John, we have had the Chinese paper mills had bought US assets. They essentially fill our customers just not going directly to China anymore. And so we have found the alternative market, but I would say the most interesting thing about all this and the action China has taken is that really made the US invest more within their own paper mill system. And so over the last, let us call it two to three years, we have seen more investments in the US in paper mills, more recycled paper mills open in the US we ever have in the last ten or twenty years, and more jobs here in the US. A lot more of our material, the material that your folks put on the curbside is going to end up staying in the US and getting turned back into boxes here in North America.

John: For our listeners who just joined us, we have got Brent Bell with us today. He is the President of the Waste Management Recycle America Program. Brent, with regards to COVID-19, we are all living through this very tragic and also strange period. As a leader of the leading brand in recycling and waste management in the world, how did you manage your team as a leader through this very uncharted, unprecedented period of business and commerce, and service?

Brent: The first thing we did, John, and I know you have the same criteria for your employees that safety is first. The safety of our employees takes precedent above anything else. And so we wanted to make sure that our employees were safe in coming to work. And as you know, most of them wear the proper protection to begin with. They have got a glove, they have got a mask, they have got glasses, they get a hard hat. This was somewhat an interesting dynamic because, in the past, we teach people to make sure that they do not strain themselves in a stretch and on-the-job make sure they do not have injuries. This was a kind of an invisible danger to us, right? They could bring something into the workforce if they went home and went to a party or event, they could bring that COVID back to the workforce and affect their fellow co-workers. We really had to make sure that what they are practicing, the safe distancing they were practicing at work applied to what they were doing at home as well so they would not bring it back in. And so one of the things we quickly did is realized we have got to redesign all the [inaudible] and make sure that folks can stay six feet apart while they are working. So we had install plexiglass like you see a lot of restaurants and facilities now. The safety meeting that we had which we normally all huddled up together and they had to be separated, breaks the part. We had to separate and stagger lunch breaks, the meal breaks to make sure that we did not have more people in a room that room could handle capacity wise. But ultimately for our employees, we want to make sure that, one is they felt safe coming to work, that we provide a safe environment for them and that they would also take this same practice at home to their families to make sure they were protected as well.

John: That is great. For our listeners out there, to find Brent and his colleagues at Waste Management, go to www.wm.com. Right here, I am on your website now and it is like you said, you just do not talk the talk, you walk the talk your organization and a great company does, Brent. Right on the landing page of your website, it is Recycle Right, the Greenest Show. You have so many links all about how to be a more sustainable and greener company, city, person, municipality. Can you share with our listeners if they want to now start becoming part of the solution and not the problem which I find more and more people do more than ever before, what are some action steps they can take to help foster good recycling practices at their home, at their business and then in the communities they live in?

Brent: Yes, so the one thing and I know you mentioned The Greenest Show is our Waste Management Phoenix Open Golf Tournament. That is remarkable. I think it averages like a hundred thousand people a day. It is one of the largest sporting events in the entire world and the fact that that could be zero waste always mind-boggles folks, right? And I will tell you, John, we have four thousand recycle and organic bins located throughout the tournament, and those were all proudly made from mixed paper through our paper mill partner Pratt Paper Mill. And so even the bins that you put the material into was once are yesterday was a mixed paper that was in your [inaudible] side cart. And so it starts with working with what materials you are bringing in, we got to make sure that all those vendors know that any material they bring in there has to be recycled and in the traditional recycling pile or in the organic pile. I would say the same thing for any business you are operating, right? It is what materials are you bringing in that you may have to dispose of and can you work with your vendors to make sure that those are made out of recycled material or easily recyclable materials. So you do not have big disposal, you have more on the recycling side. It starts there, but there are so many good stories around the Waste Management Phoenix Open. So even the clothes you can buy at the PGA golf shop, they are made from a plastic bottle. A lot of them are made from plastic bottles. We have a so-called Unified. They have a reprieve brand that sells into a lot of the brands you are probably wearing today. They made great first jackets, hats out of recycled water bottles, right? Who would have thought that?

John: I would not.

Brent: There are so many stories. It is just such a great thing to do with these recycled materials and we are really proud of the Waste Management Phoenix Open, but as well as being a sustainable service provider to those customers, to those businesses, they are looking for those solutions. And there is a conversation we have with them is really get into knowing their business and how they can be a greener business.

John: Also, I love the alliteration that you have here, the Recycle Right Program. What do you mean by Recycle Right and what does that mean to your citizens at large that use your services and also the businesses that use your services as well?

Brent: Recycle Right is our education campaign. When we were looking probably in 2018, John, we had about a 25% contamination rate. If you think about that, I will just put that in perspective, and what most of our bail of material are way about 2,000 pounds. So what that means for every bale material, we have about 500 pounds of trash that did not belong in there and that trash is garden hoses, it is Christmas lights, it is bowling balls, it is basketball that should not be in your recycling bin. The Recycle Right mean put the right items in the bin. That is what is really important to us. When you look at all of the differences, and I know there is a lot of confusion on education in recycling programs, so that is why we try to stick with the basics. Paper, plastic, bottles, and cans. Those are accepted in every recycling bin, every curbside program and if we can just get those materials in there correctly and raise their recycling rates on those materials, it is a huge win. My concept with this Recycle Right is to let us stick to the basics. Let us just get the basics right first.

John: Let us go back to what you and I know to be a term of art in the industry, I want you to walk our listeners through that contaminated recycling material basically renders it non-recyclable, explain why?

Brent: That is right. So, John, I will give this example. Imagine if you have your perfectly clean recyclables, you put in your cardboard, you put in your mail, you put in your bottles and your can and that is in there and then and right next to you is let us say a person who is horrible recycling they can care less. They are going to put it in their garden hose. They are going to put in their motor oil. Their car batteries. And now, it gets dumped in the same truck, right?

John: Right.

Brent: But now all of that motor oil is all over your paper that the car battery could cause a fire or explosion at the recycling facility. And the tanglers would cause downtime which would mean that facility cannot run as efficiently as it should be running with all the clean materials. If you get these materials that do not belong in there, not only the dangerous for our employees, not only could it start fires, but it is also going to run the recyclables that are good in that same load.

John: That makes so much sense. You know, Brent, I know you are very humble when it comes to all of your achievements personally, but I know you helped also form the Recycle America Alliance. Can you share with our listeners what is the mission behind Recycle America Alliance?

Brent: Recycle America Alliance was one that was formed back in probably the early 2000s and it was a way for Waste Management to grow the recycling business through various acquisitions. And while we picked up a lot of great facilities during that time period, one of the things we picked up there is probably the biggest was what we call the Brokerage Business. So there is a lot of customers that you know that have materials that they can build their own material behind their stores, large retailers. And so to offer that service to these large retailers was really important to us. So as part of Recycle America Alliance, we get this Brokerage Business, and now we have grown the Brokerage Business into a really large business that they can cater sustainability goals to some of the largest retailers on the planet and we are happy to provide those services to those retail customers as well and I think they like to do business with us because of who we are and the responsibility we take and managing their materials every day.

John: That makes sense. You know, Brent, we are going through an interesting period. You and I have been friends for quite some time and we have seen the whole sustainability revolution grow and then a little bit weight and then now it seems it is like it is really back on. Now they are calling it not only sustainability but circular economy and then also ESG has become a very big thing. Share a little bit about your thoughts as we are going into a new administration that says they are going to now re-sign the Paris Accord and a congress that is very excited about a potentially a green deal. Is green and sustainability here to stay in America and is it going to continue to grow in the years ahead? What are your thoughts on what is going on right now both politically and from a social movement standpoint?

Brent: I follow up with a lot of the ESG conversations and companies and funds that are investing in ESG. And while there is clearly favoritism towards it, my only skepticism and this is where I feel like it is part of my duty is to make sure that as they invest in ESG type companies and let us say a [inaudible] management that falls in that category, that we can still make that profit for the shareholders. And so how do we do that? It is by increasing the demand, making sure that, John, that your business if I prevent you, it is the right thing to convert your business to a hundred percent recycling. I also want to make sure that you are saving money versus any alternative mechanism you have, right? And so that way if prices go down, then John, we have given you a service that will sustain and low prices into your [inaudible] and continue to do that. I guess going back to the retail example, while a lot of these retailers have recycled cardboard for a decade, in 2019, prices of cardboard, believe it or not, in the Pacific Northwest for fifteen dollars a ton which means the cost to collect that from a retailer exceeded the value of that material, right? But we did not see any retailers pull back on it, that was part of their standard practice was the baled cardboard no matter what and so they stuck with it because they knew there is going to be highs and lows. And so I say the same thing is as long as we can make sure that it is an economical benefit as well as environmental then I think that the green is here to stay. I question what some companies may do when the pressure gets put on them and the economic change. So that is where my viewpoint is more on let us continue to focus on driving for demand and making sure these materials have value moving forward.

John: Well, and you are so right, Brent. You and I have seen both a lot of the companies come and go who do not get that right, that responsible recycling costs money and you cannot save the planet if you are not a sustainable company. I get it, and you are so right. You are so spot-on. You know, Brent, my last question for you today because I know we have sort of a time limit here. What is next? You have done such an unbelievable job running as the President of the Waste Management Recycle America division. What is next in store? Hopefully, we are seeing the beginnings of science winning this tragic period of COVID-19. We are going to get beyond that sometime middle of next year hopefully. Where are you going to go next with Waste Management and this journey?

Brent: I think the one thing I would really like to see because I know that in the US we get a lot of pressure on let us call it the Recycling Rate, right? How do we make sure and drive the recycling rate for the right materials? And I will give you one example of where I see as we talk about the demand, John. This is just a great example. We talked about how pushing the demand for materials help and if you do not believe that, look at what we call natural high density, which natural high density for your viewers is you are like kind of your clear milk jug, your tea jug, it is a plastic material, the container that is usually in a clear or natural model. For the first time in the history of recycling, natural high density is more valuable than aluminum cans are, and aluminum can traditionally where the most valuable commodity. Why is natural high density is so valuable? Because some of these brands have said, “I am committing to using more recycled content in my product and I need to get as much as possible. ” Now, because natural HD can be dyed in many colors, it is essentially a universal donor so the demand is very high for that. But that is just an example of how do we get more polypropylene is. Another good example is an increasing commodity that we are starting to see that recycling great creep up and climb to where it needs to be. For some of these commodities, we would just like to see how can we work with the brand to make sure that their materials get recycled and to that rate continues to go up so that the US, essentially the leader in nowhere or along way away from it but being a leader in the world on recycling rates and materials that we can recycle. That is kind of I would say, the mission that we have going forward is how to increase those rates for those types of materials so that more and more consumers can see the benefit of using recycled materials and the product.

John: I love it and that is where we are going to end today. And I think that is a great call to action for all our listeners out there in the United States and even way beyond, around the world. You know, Brent, thank you for being here today. For our listeners who want to find Brent and his colleagues and all the great work they are doing in recycling, you can go to www.wm.com. Brent Belle, you are not only a great friend of mine, but also have been an inspiration and a teacher for all these years and I really value you and I am grateful to you for not only our friendship but for making the world a better place. Thank you for being on the Impact podcast today.

Brent: Thank you, John, and to all the listeners: Happy Holidays.