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John Shegerian: Welcome to another edition of Green Is Good. This is the Green Sports Alliance edition of Green Is Good, and we’re here in beautiful downtown Chicago, and we’ve got my friend with me, Nick Aster. He is the founder and CEO of TriplePundit, and you can find TriplePundit at www.TriplePundit.com. It’s a great blog that shares everything about sustainability with the world at large, and if you don’t subscribe to it now, subscribe to it. www.TriplePundit.com. Go on and fill out the newsletter section. You’ll get the – daily blog, is it? Nick Aster: Daily and weekly. John Shegerian: Daily and weekly. Nick Aster: Two different ones. John Shegerian: I mean, I get it. I have subscribed for years. It’s amazing. Nick, welcome to Green Is Good. Nick Aster: Thanks for having me. John Shegerian: Now, you’ve been on the show before, but now we have you, as my producer, Jessica, said, “in the flesh.” Nick Aster: Yeah. Looks good. John Shegerian: So we’re here at the GSA together. Tell me and tell our listeners and audience what you’re doing here at GSA. Nick Aster: Yeah. So in a nutshell, we cover all aspects of sustainability as they pertain to business. John Shegerian: Right. Nick Aster: Sports is a big business, so we came here because we think that sports has a particularly important role to play in terms of greening their own operations but also in terms of the social impact that sports has. John Shegerian: Right. Nick Aster: And, I mean, the big picture here is not just about – there are important things that we’ve got to deal with, energy and food and all of the nuts and bolts of how a great big stadium works and so on. John Shegerian: Right. Nick Aster: But the big deal here in sports is second to only perhaps religion as a vector for communicating anything to humanity. John Shegerian: Good point. Nick Aster: So we look at it in that big picture way, and we think that there’s just a tremendous opportunity here to use sports to really bring humanity at large together. John Shegerian: With regards to TriplePundit have you been to the GSA events before, Nick? Nick Aster: Yeah. We came last year and then one of my colleagues was here the year before that. John Shegerian: Got you. So you’ve covered it for three years. What is your big takeaway from this summit? Nick Aster: The big takeaway is that this is bigger than ever. It’s obviously being taken very seriously. There has been a huge amount of progress. We have teams and stadiums and leagues worldwide that are finally starting to wake up to talking about the issue of sustainability – be it environmental, social or both. John Shegerian: Right. Nick Aster: And so in other words, much like the business world at large, this is becoming more and more mainstream. It used to be met with indifference or even hostility and now a lot of teams have somebody who is responsible for it as an official job. John Shegerian: You know, Nick, you’re not only a journalist, but you’re also an entrepreneur and ecopreneur with TriplePundit. How many years ago did you found Triple Pundit, again? Nick Aster: Just over 10 years now. John Shegerian: So 10 years. And if a business lifecycle is a baseball game, where are we with TriplePundit? Where are you? Are you the top of the second inning? The bottom of the third? Where are you in the lifecycle? Nick Aster: That’s an interesting point. I think we’re actually still kind of at the beginning to tell you the truth. There is a long way to go. John Shegerian: Yeah. Nick Aster: We’re making some solid effort. We’ve grown tremendously over the years, but as this whole movement becomes more and more mainstream suddenly, it’s obvious that there’s a long way to go. John Shegerian: And what is your vision for the next five years for TriplePundit? Nick Aster: Yeah, good question. Well, we’re going to continue to grow. Another thing that we’re going to be doing is focusing more specifically on different verticals – sports being one of them, apparel being another. There are various different industries and subjects so we’re going to be building out our coverage on those specific topics. John Shegerian: Got you. Nick Aster: So you’ll see the site get kind of categorized a little more formally. And we’ll be doing more things like this – more interviews, more video stuff. John Shegerian: Got you. Nick Aster: A lot more conference presence and perhaps some other kinds of events. John Shegerian: That’s cool. And I know we’re going to see each other again – thankfully – up in Portland. Nick Aster: Yeah. That’s right. John Shegerian: So talk a little bit about what you’re doing up there. Nick Aster: Yeah. Another important vertical – electronics and technology in general – so we’re doing a whole push on green electronics. John Shegerian: And you’re a media partner of that event, right? Nick Aster: That’s correct. Of the green electronics event in October in Portland. John Shegerian: Right. Nick Aster: So we’re going to be doing some things like this – sitting down and talking to people, doing some coverage and interviews. We’re also promoting that event – hoping to get some interesting people to turn up in Portland and keep the conversation going in that industry. John Shegerian: So TriplePundit is also going to become more social in terms of video and even more social opportunities. Nick Aster: Yeah. And a lot more opportunities to really engage with people. John Shegerian: Right. Nick Aster: So sometimes that’s online – Twitter and so on – in particular. John Shegerian: Right. Nick Aster: Lots of Twitter chats we’ve been doing. John Shegerian: But- Nick Aster: But also some in-person events as well. John Shegerian: Talk a little bit about a couple of the brands that you’ve done those Twitter events with recently. Nick Aster: Yeah. We’ve been doing quite a few with SAP. That is primarily about things like- John Shegerian: I’ve seen that on your- Nick Aster: Yeah. Like STEM education technology, as it sort of meets the sort of being more inclusive for folks. Then a few with Levi’s recently on the apparel industry. John Shegerian: Got you. Nick Aster: And we have a bunch more coming up. John Shegerian: That’s a great way for brands to get their word out, using your Twitter chats. Nick Aster: Yeah, it is. A lot of fun. One we just did with UL Environment and a couple smaller brands – MeterHero, a great startup looking to help people save water and energy, so we’ve got a chat coming up with them later this year. John Shegerian: We’re down to the last minute or so, Nick. There are a lot of young people that watch and listen to our show around the world. A lot of them see you and want to be the next Nick Astor. Talk a little bit about how is that? Is it a straight-line journey? Does it have a lot of zigs and zags? And how do they go about their education to do this? Nick Aster: Sure. I mean, at the end of the day it’s a straight-line journey in the sense that you have to simply commit and be patient. John Shegerian: Yeah. Nick Aster: I mean, that’s what most of this has been. We’ve taken a lot of different paths in terms of thinking at the business model and the details and so on, but fundamentally, our goal is to put good conversations out there about sustainability and to keep doing it consistently. So that’s what we’ve been doing. We committed to that and kind of just stuck with it. John Shegerian: Well, we want you to keep coming back on the show and sharing your story. And – like I said – I’ve been a subscriber for at least six years to TriplePundit, so I love the stories that you share and the journeys that you share. You’ve done so much to make the world a better place, Nick, so thank you so much. For our listeners out there, you’ve had Nick Aster and John Shegerian broadcasting from the Green Sports Alliance summit here in downtown Chicago. You can find Green Sports Alliance at www.GreenSportsAlliance.org and you can find Nick Aster at www.TriplePundit.com. Sign up for Triple Pundit – the daily newsletter, the weekly newsletter – at www.TriplePundit.com. Thank you, Nick Aster, for making the world a better place. You are truly living proof that Green Is Good.

John Shegerian: Welcome to another edition of Green Is Good. This is the Green Sports Alliance edition of Green Is Good here in beautiful downtown Chicago, and I am honored to have with me this morning Syd Mandelbaum and David Alcaro. Welcome to Green Is Good. Syd Mandelbaum: Thanks for having us. John Shegerian: Well, we’re going to be talking about Rock and Wrap It Up – your great organization – but before we get doing that, talk a little bit about the Syd Mandelbaum and David Alcaro story, the journey leading up to the founding of this, and then how you met, and then the founding of Rock and Wrap It Up. Syd Mandelbaum: Well, let me start. God bless America. John Shegerian: Yay. Syd Mandelbaum: They took my parents in who were Holocaust survivors in 1950, and I was born here in this country, and I felt if I could make a difference in my life, I wanted to do it in honoring and helping those of need here in the country that took them in. And it’s been a blessing because we have been able to change our small world that we are involved with. But the key for Rock and Wrap It Up is to inspire others that they can do and take the similar journey that we have done to change. John Shegerian: Got it. And when did you guys meet. David Alcaro: I think it was around 10, 12 years ago. Somewhere around there. Syd Mandelbaum: About 2002 I think. John Shegerian: And, David, what were you doing before Rock and Wrap It Up? David Alcaro: I was a floor trader on the New York Mercantile Exchange. John Shegerian: Really? David Alcaro: Yeah. Back when floor trading existed. John Shegerian: Right. David Alcaro: Back when hip trading happened. It was actually a New York Mercantile Exchange charitable foundation. John Shegerian: Oh. David Alcaro: Syd had an item – a Radiohead signed guitar, which is very, very special – and did a joint auction with the New York Mercantile Exchange Foundation and Rock and Wrap It Up. I ended up bidding and winning the item. John Shegerian: Nice. David Alcaro: So I got to meet Syd after the auction and he invited me to an event. But really what was key is he invited me to a food pickup and I got to experience picking up food from the party and saw from food being served and going out to the shelter. From soup to nuts, I saw everything. John Shegerian: And this was in New York. David Alcaro: Yes. John Shegerian: And you guys met. You’re both from New York originally? David Alcaro: Yes. John Shegerian: Brooklyn, New York? Syd Mandelbaum: Yes. John Shegerian: And where are you from, David? David Alcaro: Orange County, New York. John Shegerian: Orange County. Got you. Good. So talk then a little bit, Syd, about the founding of Rock and Wrap it up. What year did you found it, and what was its basic premise and mission? Syd Mandelbaum: Well, I’ve always been a deadhead, and we pretty much – I’ve always had an affinity for music. The Grateful Dead community has always been a giving one, and in 1987, I was active in the Kiwanis Club – the Five Towns, which is a service organization. A woman came and spoke and pretty much said, “I want to find a soup kitchen in Rockaway” – which was a very poor area at that time – “and I need help.” And some of us got together and one of the guys in the club had a bakery and he said, “I have day-old stuff every day. You could have it.” And then I said, “Well, in the mornings I could pick it up and bring it to another friend of mine who has a business in Rockaway and he’ll just bring it to you.” So we started that in 1987. John Shegerian: Wow. Syd Mandelbaum: And eventually, I became president of that soup kitchen, called the Claddagh Inn Soup Kitchen, which I headed for five years. Along the way, I had been made Human Right Commissioner for Nassau County in 1985, and our first keynote speaker when we did an anti-bias workshop was Sandy Chapin, the widow of Harry Chapin. John Shegerian: Right. Syd Mandelbaum: And Harry had founded Long Island Cares, which was a regional food bank on Long Island. Sandy asked me to serve on her board of directors and at that time I wanted to see both vertical and horizontal imagining of how hunger and poverty could be alleviated, so I took that and I wound up serving 10 years on her board of this food bank. John Shegerian: Wow. Syd Mandelbaum: And in 1990, she wanted to raise money, and one of the former managers of Harry Chapin was Ron Delsner, who was a rock impresario, and we met with Ron in his office and we begged him for money and he said, “I don’t have money, but there is always food leftover at Jones Beach Theatre and you’re welcome to it.” John Shegerian: Wow. Syd Mandelbaum: And I said, “I’m active with a church that has a pantry and we would love to do that,” and in the summer of 1991, my wife and I picked up – with four other couples – 4,000 pounds of food from backstage catering Jones Beach Theatre. And we did that again in 1992 and 1993, and all the food would go to the Claddagh Inn. By 1993, an interesting thing happened. Backstage – one of the managers who got to know us and like us showed me a contract by the band The Black Crowes and in the contract it said – on a rider – “The Black Crowes need a quarter ounce of pot in each dressing room.” And I looked at it and I go, “How could they do that?” and he says, “Well, the point is that they are proponents of marijuana liberalization on the laws.” John Shegerian: Huh. Syd Mandelbaum: And it hit me like a thunderclap. I said, “Well, what if we want to save food? Could I put that in the rider?” and he said, “Syd, that’s a great idea,” and that’s how Rock and Wrap It Up was born. John Shegerian: Wow. Syd Mandelbaum: We developed language – contractual obligation language for riders – so that bands that were already donating food could then do it nationally and then North American, and that’s how we founded Rock and Wrap It Up. And we went national in 1994. John Shegerian: Wow. Oh, that is just wonderful. So you went national in 1994. Now, we’re almost 21 years after the fact. Talk about the journey. How has the journey been, David? Then you joined on as the VP. How has that journey been? How many people have you fed? How much have you collected? And by the way for our listeners out there who want to learn more about Rock and Wrap It Up go to www.RockAndWrapItUp.org. So explain the 21 years. Give us a little taste of the journey. Syd Mandelbaum: I’ll start, then I’ll let David finish. John Shegerian: Yeah. Syd Mandelbaum: By 1995, we were the darling of the music industry and having done interviews with MTV – at the time MTV Radio – we had a huge article in Rolling Stone Magazine and became friends with Jann Wenner at the time, and that article really put us in a place that we had never been. We got called from the Chronicle Philanthropy – a huge journal – and Good Housekeeping Magazine did a full story on Rock and Wrap It Up. It was picked up by the U.S. Department of Agriculture through Dan Glickman – at that time Secretary – who reads Rolling Stone. He called me up and basically said, “Syd, what can we do to help you?” and by 1997, we launched the Rock and Wrap It Up school program, which would use the iconicness of rockstars to encourage students and kids to make sure that food from their schools would feed the hungry in their local communities. And that program was launched at the floor of the President’s Summit on Volunteerism in August 1997 with all living presidents at that time committing to have America become a nation of volunteers. And Glickman and I launched this, and that program is still going on. We reintroduced a brand new curriculum at this meeting, which we are at here at GSA and we have a brand new piece called the “Whole Earth Calculator,” named after a magazine I read as a kid called the “Whole Earth Catalogue.” John Shegerian: Sure. Syd Mandelbaum: And the Whole Earth Calculator enables our partners to transfer pounds of food that are donated into total meals that are the equivalency through the USDA and greenhouse gas emission reduction numbers that they could then send out as a tweet. John Shegerian: And where can our listeners and viewers…? Syd Mandelbaum: They can download it from the www.RockAndWrapItUp.org website. John Shegerian: Perfect. Syd Mandelbaum: And it is a free app. It’s a non-native mobile app, which can be used by anyone but the key is to put your hashtag #world in it and send it out to everyone. John Shegerian: Amazing. Syd Mandelbaum: So our sport teams – I’ll let David talk about our sports footprint. David Alcaro: Yeah, well since I’ve been involved in the past decade-plus, the growth in the sports industry has been massive for us. Starting working with the teams in New York City – the nine teams in New York – but now moving on to the entire National Hockey League, which was an amazing partnership. John Shegerian: Whoa. David Alcaro: Yeah. That was huge. Gary Bettman and his team, fantastic job getting us into every team picking up all their concession food. And now being in those arenas, you can also pick up from if they share it with the basketball team or when they have Disney on Ice, so there are so many food opportunities through sports, through the NHL, through other team sports and some of the other larger venues. We’ve done some stuff in NASCAR, PGA. Looking to grow more in those. John Shegerian: And that is why you are here at GSA continuing to foster the relationships you already have in sports but now expanding it into new leagues with new teams and new industries. David Alcaro: Yeah, well, sports is continuing to grow. Major League Soccer now is adding new franchises so you just have so much more out there and so much more available for us and that gives us more opportunity to find food and get it to people in need. John Shegerian: Did you guys also speak here at the GSA this week? Syd Mandelbaum: Yeah. I was asked to head a workshop on food recovery here in the Midwest region, and it was chaired by Julie Schilf who was the director. John Shegerian: Julie was on our show. She’s a wonderful lady. Syd Mandelbaum: Wonderful, wonderful partner of ours. John Shegerian: Yeah. Syd Mandelbaum: And what Rock and Wrap It Up has one, we’ve partnered nationally with both the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the EPA, and we help them with a program called the Food Recovery Challenge, which is a national effort to sensitize business that they should be doing more, but more importantly, they should be telling people when they share their abundance. John Shegerian: Now, you said a little while ago, not only are you in rock and roll, not only are you now in sports and that’s why you’re here at the GSA, but also what you started with Glickman in the schools. Is the school still going and is that spreading? Syd Mandelbaum: The school is huge. In fact, the Whole Earth Calculator lesson plans, which I introduced yesterday to this audience – I was very humbled. I was asked to present at the National School Board Association Meeting in Nashville to 75,000 educators. John Shegerian: Wow. Syd Mandelbaum: And people are just looking for ways to empower teachers to be motivated to teach kids about the environment. John Shegerian: Wow. Syd Mandelbaum: And the Rock and Wrap It Up school programs are very much predicated on teachers being able – and hopefully, there are a lot of teachers listening to your program. John Shegerian: Right. Syd Mandelbaum: Contacting us, downloading the lesson plans – and it’s a two-day lesson plan, which is very, very visual. It starts with a discussion by Dr. Elise Golan – who is the Head of Sustainability at the U.S. Department of Agriculture – being interviewed by Bloomberg Television and talking about the work we did at the NFL Super Bowl last year where we introduced the Whole Earth Calculator to sports. John Shegerian: Wow. So for our listeners and viewers out there, Syd, that want to get involved that either love music, just love your mission, love sports, how can they get involved? By going to your website and doing what? What do you want from – how do you continue to grow this amazing mission and journey that your started 21 years ago? Syd Mandelbaum: Well, we have programs that are of all ages of students. So we have a program called “Snack Wrap,” which empowers five- and six-year-olds to take unopened healthy bag snacks that they don’t eat and share it with children that might be hungry in their schools – very, very decentralized. John Shegerian: Wow. Syd Mandelbaum: We have school programs, which teach to show that students can do exactly what their sports heroes do – take food from their schools and feed the hungry in their local communities. And they can sign up on the website. We also are doing a lot of work now with empowerment of anti-poverty projects. So if they are involved with hotels – we pick up right now toilet paper, shampoo, conditioners, because if you eat, you need toilet paper and the reality is that you can’t get it anywhere. John Shegerian: Right. Syd Mandelbaum: We get it for them from hotels. And we’ve just launched a brand new initiative in California called “Mardi Bra.” Last year, we did research and found that one of the truly difficult items for women are feminine products, and we had an event at the Sofitel Beverly Hills Hotel, and it was supported by one of our advisors – Sharon Osbourne. Sharon sent a tweet out to her hashtag database and we got hundreds of women, came in their fancy bras, bathing suit tops, halter tops and brought with them feminine products and shared them with the Homeboy Industries of L.A. and the Union Station Foundation of Pasadena. We are looking to expand that, and if you have women in your audience – as I’m sure you do…. John Shegerian: Yeah. Syd Mandelbaum: I would love them to contact us, because we want to do Mardi Bra in 20 cities next year, and we have now a commitment of eight cities that want to run an identical program that we did to collect these products for at-risk women and children. John Shegerian: So, Syd and David, the truth is if people go to www.RockAndWrapItUp.org there are so many ways they can be involved. Wherever they are there is something that they can do – whether it’s donating money, food, getting a hotel involved, getting their school involved, getting their kids involved – there are ways to step in and help your greater mission. That’s amazing. What a story. What a story. Well, we thank you both today for your time. This is just – I’m so glad we got to meet you, and you are always welcome back on Green Is Good. For our listeners and our viewers out there, it has been Syd Mandelbaum and David Alcaro, the founder and CEO of Rock and Wrap It Up and the VP of Rock and Wrap It Up. To find out more about Rock and Wrap It Up, please go to www.RockAndWrapItup.org. Get involved. Help make the world a better place. This is John Shegerian at the Green Sports Alliance edition of Green Is Good, and to learn more about the Green Sports Alliance, go to www.GreenSportsAlliance.org. Syd and David, you are making the world a better place. You are both blessings on this earth and you are truly living proof that Green Is Good. Thank you so much for being with us. Syd Mandelbaum: Thank you. David Alcaro: Thanks for having us. John Shegerian: Thank you.

John Shegerian: Welcome to another edition of Green Is Good. This is the Green Sports Alliance edition of Green Is Good, and we are here in beautiful downtown Chicago, and we’ve got Carlie Bullock-Jones with us. She is the founder of Ecoworks Studio. Welcome to Green Is Good. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Thank you. John Shegerian: So, Carlie, before we get talking about Ecoworks Studio, share a little bit about your journey in sustainability. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Sure. My journey started back at Auburn University – an undergraduate – and I was very concerned in the College of Architecture, Design and Construction about the spaces I was designing for people and the products, and where I was getting these products from, and where they were manufactured, so my thesis at Auburn was about the built environment and its impact on the natural environment. So when I took my first job out of college at a large architectural firm in Atlanta, Georgia, I started an in-house committee to teach the architects and interior designers about sustainably sourced materials and why we should create healthy premium workspaces for people. Around the same time, the LEED rating system was born. John Shegerian: Right. Carlie Bullock-Jones: I don’t know if you are familiar with that. John Shegerian: Yeah. Carlie Bullock-Jones: And so we had several sort of higher education and government clients that wanted to pursue that so several of the principals at the firm said, “You seem to talk about this environmental LEED stuff at lunch – are you interested in working on these projects?” and that became a fulltime job. So about eight years ago, I started Ecoworks Studio, which focused full-time on green building consulting, so we get to work with all kinds of other architects, project donors, contractors – you name it – to build environmentally friendly buildings. John Shegerian: And for our listeners and viewers, if they want to find you, Carlie, or they want to learn more about Ecoworks, they can go to www.Ecoworks-Studio.com. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Yes. John Shegerian: So talk about that journey. You started Ecoworks. How is it going, and what do your clients look like? Carlie Bullock-Jones: It’s great. I would say, early on in those years – I guess about 15, 16 years ago – we were working on primarily office type facilities and greening those. Over the course of the 15 or 16 years since LEED has been born, I think a lot of the architects have gotten down the LEED rating system and applying that to an office. John Shegerian: Right. Carlie Bullock-Jones: And how I am here at the Green Sports Alliance is over this journey I have been working on applying LEED and green building to atypical building types. So building types like the Atlanta Falcons stadium, that we’re working on, where you have thousands of people coming in and out and it’s not regularly used like an office, right? John Shegerian: Right. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Like an office is regula0,r all the time. John Shegerian: Consistent. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Consistent. John Shegerian: That is a surge deal. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Exactly. John Shegerian: Surge and then empty. Carlie Bullock-Jones: We call them “surge facilities.” Right. John Shegerian: Surge facilities. Carlie Bullock-Jones: So we went to the USGBC, and started asking, why are these arenas and stadiums not pursuing – all of them – platinum and higher levels of sustainability? Is there a reason? So they’re all pursuing perhaps some level, but I believe they’re all sort of hitting some of the similar barriers – perhaps – that it’s hard to maybe fit the LEED rating system around that because it has been based so much on an office building, so we were here to talk a little bit about that, and we are hopefully going to have sort of a case study that will come out of that. John Shegerian: Is this your first year here? Carlie Bullock-Jones: This is my third year. John Shegerian: Third year. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Yes. John Shegerian: So you have been involved with GSA for quite some time. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Yes. John Shegerian: That is exciting. And the Atlanta Falcons stadium – is that your first big public stadium or you have done others? Carlie Bullock-Jones: I have done convention centers and arenas – or I should say other types of surge facilities – but this is the first time we’ve ventured into the sports area. John Shegerian: And do people still hire you to just do their homes still, too? Carlie Bullock-Jones: I have only focused on commercial. John Shegerian: It’s only commercial. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Our company is whole – that’s a fair question. So – yeah. John Shegerian: OK. That’s interesting. And today when you were speaking about it what is the audience most interested in when you are speaking on this topic? Carlie Bullock-Jones: So, what we were actually talking about is benchmarking. John Shegerian: Ah. Carlie Bullock-Jones: So it’s hard to really benchmark energy waste and water for these types of facilities. Again, because they are not regularly used, there has not been sort of a clearinghouse of data so far like Energy Star. John Shegerian: Right. Carlie Bullock-Jones: That has like how do we compare this facility to others. John Shegerian: Right. Carlie Bullock-Jones: So the discussion has been to move towards transparency, and a lot more of these types of venues sharing their information about energy waste and water so that others here, like at the conference, can begin to benchmark where should my hockey arena be? Where should my football pro-sports facility be in terms of energy? Where is the baseline? Where is the point of departure? John Shegerian: So interesting. Carlie Bullock-Jones: So it has been a little bit challenging to find some of that information. So we are starting to really make some movement – I think – at this year’s conference on what we can do to get everybody on the same page, because I think everybody is starting at a different starting point or starting line. John Shegerian: Is this and do you do redevelopments also? Would you take a stadium and do a retrofit also? Carlie Bullock-Jones: We would but primarily we’ve only been focusing on new constructions. Yeah. John Shegerian: Because of the such a high-profile nature of the Atlanta Falcons stadium. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Right. John Shegerian: Is coming to GSA and speaking not only great in terms of raising the visibility of Ecoworks Studio but also a chance for you to network with other? Carlie Bullock-Jones: Absolutely. It’s been a lot of fun. And I think the size of the conference is nice. Sometimes I go to these green building conferences that are 20,000 people and it’s a little overwhelming and exhausting, and this is a nice – this is a good group. But it’s great to see them grow every year. I think we were about 400 the first year I went and now they’re about 700. John Shegerian: Right. Carlie Bullock-Jones: So it’s good growth. John Shegerian: It’s growth every year. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Good growth. Yeah. John Shegerian: Talk about the growth of your company. Has it been a straight line or is it straight plateau and then grow? How does it look? Carlie Bullock-Jones: That is a good question too. So, actually, I left the architecture firm I was working for in 2007, which as everyone may remember was about the time everything – yeah – and so people thought I was a bit nuts for doing that. There was not much growth those first few years, but I was able to keep my head above water. John Shegerian: Right. Carlie Bullock-Jones: And so I guess we have been growing more so in the last three or four years. John Shegerian: Got you. Carlie Bullock-Jones: And it has been steady, so that’s good. John Shegerian: And how big is the firm now in terms of people? Carlie Bullock-Jones: For us, it’s only six people, but that’s big for us. John Shegerian: That’s big. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Yeah. John Shegerian: That’s big. Good for you. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Especially when I started by just myself in 2007, right? John Shegerian: Exactly. That’s huge. Carlie Bullock-Jones: I would say, “We are 80 percent women,” and I don’t know if that is a coincidence or not, but of course, some of the dialogue here at the conference has been women in sports and so. John Shegerian: I think that’s a big – well, I think three or four great trends are coming together here. There are headlines and there are trend lines. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Right. John Shegerian: Headline – women are here to stay. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Right. John Shegerian: And trend line – women are here to stay. And that lean-in generation. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Yes. We were talking about that. John Shegerian: It’s really here. And it’s here, and in force. And I’ll tell you what, so is sustainability and so is sports. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Right. John Shegerian: So it makes a lot of sense, because so many of the leaders that I have been interviewing the last two days here are women. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Right. John Shegerian: Chief sustainability officers, CEOs, like you, founders of companies, entrepreneurs. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Right. And what excites me – I guess – about this platform is that it is such a mix of people. Sports fans. It’s a great platform to get this message out about green building and sustainability. John Shegerian: Oh my gosh. Carlie Bullock-Jones: For people that work in the building. But those that just visit the building then can take that back to their homes and start with just basic things like recycling. And if they did it at the game, why not take it home? John Shegerian: Talk a little bit about the Atlanta Falcons stadium. How many years in planning and building is a project like that for you from the beginning to the end? Carlie Bullock-Jones: For us – I know for some folks on the project it’s like a decade. Or eight by then. John Shegerian: Yeah. Carlie Bullock-Jones: But for us it’s about four years. John Shegerian: Four years. Carlie Bullock-Jones: From early. The nice part is that we were involved from the very beginning. John Shegerian: That’s great. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Prior to the site sort of even being selected which is what you want, right? John Shegerian: Right. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Not “here you go.” So we work all through the design process and the construction process, and it will open in March of 2017. John Shegerian: Wow. Carlie Bullock-Jones: But the irony is because it’s so far out people think, “Oh. Have you broken ground on it?” and so we joke that we have a stage right now in every phase of the project. People say, “I thought it was under construction. You’re still under design?” and we’re like, “Yes.” So to get these things built and open on time you have to plan ahead but also continue to be designing. So it’s been a fantastic project. John Shegerian: Any final thoughts that you want to share with our listeners and our viewers about what you do and about your thoughts about sports and Ecoworks Studio and the GSA? Carlie Bullock-Jones: I would say there are a lot of great topics going on here at the conference and at the summit. Sometimes that can be overwhelming to go home and – I would say, pick one or two things that really resonate really in your heart with you and take that and do it really well. John Shegerian: You recommend this conference to others? Carlie Bullock-Jones: Absolutely. John Shegerian: That’s great. Well, Carlie Bullock-Jones, we thank you for joining us today. Carlie Bullock-Jones: Thank you for your time. John Shegerian: And for our listeners and viewers that want to find Carlie and her great studio, go to www.Ecoworks-Studio.com. To find the Green Sports Alliance, please go to www.GreenSportsAlliance.org. Carlie Bullock-Jones, thank you for making the world a better place and a greener place. You are truly living proof that Green Is Good. Thank you so much.

John Shegerian: Welcome to another edition of Green Is Good. This is the Green Sports Alliance edition of Green Is Good, and we’re here in beautiful downtown Chicago, and we’re so honored to have with us today Jackie Ventura. She is the Head of Operations and Sustainability with the Heat – the Miami Heat that is. Welcome to Green Is Good, Jackie. Jackie Ventura: Thank you so much for having me. John Shegerian: Jackie, before we get talking about all the great things green that you’re doing at the Miami Heat, can you share a little bit about the Jackie Ventura story? Jackie Ventura: That’s a great way to put it. Well, I always found as a child I loved being outdoors. I really enjoyed being – and being from Miami, obviously, we have a lot of beaches and a lot of beautiful places to visit. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: And I always loved being surrounded by green. As corny as that sounds, it kind of made my heart sing when I would be outside and partaking of nature. So it started when I was younger, and then as I grew up I wasn’t very involved in a lot of the sustainability movements. Life goes on. You kind of grow up out of certain things. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: And then, eventually, when I started working for the Miami Heat, I worked on the operations side, so it was all about maintaining the building, running the building, making sure things were efficient, that we were being responsible consumers, because before the green movement it was all about the bottom line, right? John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: Not consuming too much is good for your bottom line and that was what originally spiked it. And as this movement became a little bit more prevalent, things trickled down to me, and I already had this love for nature and the environment, so it kind of made sense that I took it over a little bit and kind of started leading us down the path of sustainability. John Shegerian: How many years ago did you start with the Heat? Jackie Ventura: I started a very long time ago – 2001. John Shegerian: Wow. Fourteen years ago. Jackie Ventura: Yes. Fourteen years ago. John Shegerian: So you were working on the operations side. Jackie Ventura: Yes. John Shegerian: And then that evolved into being both operations and sustainability. Jackie Ventura: Yes, because if you think about it in the terms of a venue, all the things that contribute to sustainability – your energy consumption, water consumption, landscaping, all these contracts that take care of the facility – they all tie back to operations, to the back-of-house part of the facility. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: So we’ve all taken charge over those issues and kind of led the way. John Shegerian: Isn’t that interesting. And that is why so many people from operations or supply chain management end up in sustainability. Jackie Ventura: Yes. Exactly. Housekeeping reports to us, Levy Restaurants – our concessionaires – report back to the arena division and the ops division so we really do the waste stream. The contract goes through us for all of our waste removal and our recycling efforts, so operations really has their hands in all of the different aspects that contribute to sustainable initiatives. John Shegerian: So talking about sustainability initiatives, you then basically manage the American Airlines arena where the Miami Heat play. Jackie Ventura: Their sustainability efforts. Yes. John Shegerian: All their sustainability. Jackie Ventura: I am not the GM. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: I am glad to not have that job. John Shegerian: Right. But their sustainability efforts. Jackie Ventura: Yeah. John Shegerian: And their sustainability efforts can be seen on their website www.AAArena.com. Jackie Ventura: Yes. We have some of our efforts listed up there for our fans to see and try to replicate at home hopefully. John Shegerian: So talk a little bit about your decision with the Miami Heat to pursue LEED certification at the AmericanAirlines arena. Jackie Ventura: Sure. So back in about 2008 the NRDC – National Resources Defense Council. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: With our favorite, Allen Hershkowitz. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: Dr. Allen Hershkowitz. John Shegerian: Doctor. Jackie Ventura: He had done a great program with Major League Baseball, and they had created this whole sustainable platform for baseball and the NBA wanted to do something similar and launch it league-wide, so they teamed up with the NRDC and made a greening advisor for all the teams. They sent it out to us the summer before. They wanted to launch Green Week in 2009, so we got it the summer of 2008 for all the teams to review and see what we could do each in our own venues. How could we contribute to this movement? John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: And that trickled down to operations – as it usually does – from the owner to the president to our GM down to ops, because we are the ones that take care of all of those different areas. And as we were going through all of these recommendations from the NRDC and the greening advisor, a lot of light bulbs started going off and we were like, “Wow, we are doing so much of this already.” John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: Because it’s just efficient to run the building this way. And at that point, there wasn’t an NBA team that was LEED certified that played in a LEED-certified building, so we – none at all. John Shegerian: You were on fresh ground here. Jackie Ventura: Yes. John Shegerian: Wow. Jackie Ventura: Groundbreakers. John Shegerian: Wow. Jackie Ventura: And once I took the LEED checklist, and I started going through it, and I was like, “Wow, we can really do this. Let’s get this third party certification. Let’s get this validated. Let’s show that a building of this size, this age” – because in 2009 we were already hitting almost the 10-year mark – “that we can do this.” John Shegerian: No kidding. Jackie Ventura: We can be efficient. We can meet these standards. And it didn’t hurt that we would be the first, because, you know, everything in sports is about competition. John Shegerian: Right. Great point. Jackie Ventura: It never hurts to be first. John Shegerian: That’s right. Jackie Ventura: So we pursued the certification and it was successful, and in April of 2009 – just before the NBA’s first initial Green Week – we announced that we were the first NBA facility to gain LEED certification, closely followed by Atlanta. John Shegerian: Wow. And so when you say “LEED certification,” what kind? Jackie Ventura: Existing buildings operation and maintenance. John Shegerian: Got it. Jackie Ventura: Or “EBOM,” as I like to call it. John Shegerian: That’s amazing. So you’re the first. So AmericanAirlines arena – which our listeners and viewers can go look at their website, www.AAArena.com – was the first to become LEED certified with regards to an NBA team? Jackie Ventura: Yes. John Shegerian: Wow. And this is back in 2010? Jackie Ventura: This was 2009. John Shegerian: 2009. So what are some of the key sustainability features that you are the most proud of that you got accomplished there that exist today that you put in place then? Jackie Ventura: Well, they existed back then and they exist today still because we got a recertification November of 2014, and that one is a little bit more exciting because we were the first sports facility to get recertified in the world. John Shegerian: Wow. Jackie Ventura: So the USGBC had never had a sports facility recertified under a new level of certification and achieve a higher standard because we received Gold Certification for our recertification – it’s a mouthful I know. John Shegerian: Wow. Jackie Ventura: And a lot of the things that helped us in 2009 continue to contribute in 2014, which was – our energy consumption is a big one, and the hard part is that it’s so hard to illustrate this to our viewers and to our fans and make them understand what these concepts means, but we powered the building so efficiently compared to other venues of our size. John Shegerian: OK. Jackie Ventura: When you compare us to existing data of venues of like-size, like-occupancy in 2009, we were 57 percent more efficient than those venues. John Shegerian: OK. Jackie Ventura: Now, fast-forward to 2014, where we can only cut so much and other venues have kind of jumped on board and they’re trying to curb their consumption. John Shegerian: Sure. Jackie Ventura: So now we’re about 24, 25 percent more efficient. Still great numbers. John Shegerian: Amazing numbers. Jackie Ventura: And if you take into consideration how much energy a building of that size consumes, just that reduction could power hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of homes in our state, in the country. John Shegerian: That’s incredible. And how did you achieve that? How did you even get over that big energy hurdle? Jackie Ventura: Our VP of Ops who is my boss – Jim Spencer – he has been with the building since construction. John Shegerian: OK. Jackie Ventura: And he has always been very big on historical data and tracking data and that is also a passion of mine, because I was – originally, in a former life my degree is in Forensic Anthropology, so it’s a lot of statistical analysis, a lot of regression analysis and that kind of blends well with data monitoring and energy monitoring and trends and all these things that go into tracking our consumption. John Shegerian: The bottom line is you’re comfortable with numbers. Jackie Ventura: Yes. Exactly. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: I love numbers. So when we paired up – I started with the Heat in 2001, but he and I paired up in 2003 under the umbrella of operations – it was something that we were both passionate about, tracking our consumption and understanding how the building functioned. Because the building to a certain extent is a living organism, right? John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: So we created all these different spreadsheets and data trend lines monitoring our consumption, our demand, our kilowatt hours, water and natural gas, chilled water, everything that makes the building run and started comparing it and trying got understand it. What time of the day do we consumer more? Less? Where can we scale back? What has an impact on our consumption? Is it attendance? Is it when a concert ramps up and kick off? John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: Or is it static? Because sometimes there is not too much fluctuation from one day to the next. So really understating all of this helped us understand where we can scale back and where we can control our consumption. And our CFO loves it because less consumption is not only good for the planet, but it’s good for his bottom line. John Shegerian: So let’s stop there for a second. Back in the day when sustainability was just starting to rise as a big issue in the United States back in – let’s just say – 2003, 2004, 2005…. Jackie Ventura: Yes. John Shegerian: A lot of people used to throw eggs at it and say, “Wait a second – it costs more to be green?” And here you’re saying, “When you do it the right way, the truth is it actually saves money.” Jackie Ventura: Yes. Green equals green. John Shegerian: Green equals green. Love that. So you were able to save money. Jackie Ventura: Yes. John Shegerian: Both for not only getting Gold LEED Certification in 2014, but you were able to save money for the organization. Jackie Ventura: Yes. John Shegerian: That’s amazing. Jackie Ventura: And money that can be used towards other projects or other initiatives. Helping out the community. We have a lot of projects with schools and working within our own community, so it helps loosen up those dollars that would go into unnecessary consumption and have them reallocated to something that is of more value. John Shegerian: Now that you were the first, you were really the torchbearer on this issue. Jackie Ventura: Yes. John Shegerian: Do other arenas come to you now? Do other operations and sustainability managers come to you and say, “Jackie, how did you do this?” And have you become sort of the person that disseminates this information to help people learn how to get their arena LEED certified as well? Jackie Ventura: Yes. I am very open to helping the other teams. A lot of it has been in conjunction with the Green Sports Alliance. I’m also on the Board of Directors for the Green Sports Alliance. John Shegerian: Well, let’s talk about that. We’re here today at the Green Sports Alliance Green Is Good edition, and for our listeners and our viewers out there that want to learn more about the Green Sports Alliance, you can go to www.GreenSportsAlliance.org. Explain how you got involved with GSA, because that is also very important to the whole story. Jackie Ventura: When we got our first certification in 2009, there was a lot of excitement around that and there was a lot of excitement around the fact that it was all due in part to the greening advisor and the work that Allen had done with NRDC. John Shegerian: And for our listeners and our viewers out there, you and I refer to him as “Allen,” but say who was Allen back then to you. Jackie Ventura: Dr. Allen Hershkowitz, PhD. John Shegerian: With the NRDC back then. Jackie Ventura: The senior scientist for the NRDC – the National Resource Defense Council. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: Put in place a lot of great programs. So passionate about using the sports and the platform and the access that sports give you to kind of forward this movement and bring sustainability home. He’s got a great line about how many people follow science versus follow sports, and I can’t remember the percentages…. John Shegerian: But it’s big numbers. Jackie Ventura: I’m sure you’ll hear it, but it’s big numbers. John Shegerian: Big numbers, right. Jackie Ventura: A lot more people follow sports than follow science, so it’s a great avenue to get this information out there. And with the NRDC, they were doing some case studies on sports venues to launch one of their publications. The name escapes me right now but it was a big publication. John Shegerian: I remember that. Jackie Ventura: And they did a few case studies on key venues that were kind of leading this movement in the sports realm. And we talked for a little bit, had a conversation, an interview. We put the report together, and then they invited me out to the White House for their Sustainability and Sports panel. John Shegerian: And which year was this? Jackie Ventura: Back in 2012. John Shegerian: Got it. Jackie Ventura: Back in 2012. John Shegerian: After you were already LEED certified? Jackie Ventura: Yes, after the LEED certification. A lot of it – this movement snowballs kind of. That’s what it feels like. John Shegerian: Sure. Jackie Ventura: So it was a couple years before it really started taking ground and people started recognizing our efforts. So at the White House panel, we became a little bit more familiar. They invited me out to Seattle later that year to speak at the second Green Sports Alliance summit, and that’s where a lot of these relationships started happening with Scott Jenkins, Justin Zeulner, Allen Hershkowitz – all great people with the GSA. And last year, they invited me to join the board so I can have a little bit more of a hands-on effort and offer my knowledge. John Shegerian: How exciting. Jackie Ventura: Because I am really speaking from the operator’s point of view. I’m not a marketing person. I’m not a communications person. I understand how the building functions, and that’s where the real meat is for sustainability. John Shegerian: Sure. So now you sit on the board at the GSA. Jackie Ventura: Yes. John Shegerian: And you’re seen as really the “green guru” when it comes to LEED certification of sports venues. Jackie Ventura: Yes. “The Green Monster,” that’s what I’m called back home. John Shegerian: Wow. That’s exciting. So now you’re on the board. You’re here today. Are you speaking today? Jackie Ventura: I am. Workshop panel “How to Benchmark and Baseline Your Data,” so I’ll be speaking on energy. We have someone speaking on waste, someone speaking on water. and it’s led by Stephanie Young with the USGBC. John Shegerian: So it’s great. It’s all about what is measurable. Jackie Ventura: Yes, what’s measurable. John Shegerian: It becomes manageable. Jackie Ventura: Exactly. That’s a great line. John Shegerian: Wow. So talk a little bit about some of the benefits. You were mentioning community. Now that you’re LEED certified twice and now that you’re Gold LEED certified, when you sit with leadership from the Miami Heat, what are they so excited about in all the efforts that you’ve made in terms of sustainability? What is ownership and leadership really excited about? What have you been able to accomplish? Sustainability has then equaled what kind of other accomplishments? You mentioned community a couple of minutes ago. Jackie Ventura: Yeah. The community effort is one of our big ones. Going back to our environment, we do a lot of beach sweeps. We bring out the players and bring out some of the schools that we work with and do beach sweeps a few times a year, clean them up, replant dunes, leave picnic tables, build picnic tables for them, environmentally friendly picnic tables. We started the Reheat Program about five years ago, which takes all of our hot food at the end of a game that has not been sold or put out to the public and it donates it to shelters in Miami, so they alternate coming to pick up the food afterwards. John Shegerian: Wow. Jackie Ventura: We’ve donated about 5,000 pounds a season of food. And the one that’s most exciting to me is we implemented a challenge with Broward County schools. So we’re based in Miami-Dade County. John Shegerian: Sure. Jackie Ventura: But this challenge in particular is with Broward County schools. Linda Gancitano, who is a teacher there at Driftwood Middle School, approached us learning about our sustainability efforts. She approached us to try to help their students and help their schools learn about how they can become more efficient and try to curb their consumption and save dollars, because our schools are suffering. John Shegerian: Wow. Jackie Ventura: A lot of our schools are suffering. John Shegerian: Sure. Jackie Ventura: Budget cuts. There is not enough money to go around. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: So the same kind of concept. If you can save this money and not spend it on wasteful consumption, we can take it and put it into these programs. So 2013-2014 season, we did a pilot, launched it, did it only for a month; about 60 schools participated and the county ended up saving roughly $140,000 more or less in energy consumption just in one month over 60 schools. John Shegerian: Wow. Jackie Ventura: If you put it across the entire county, over 200 schools, those are some real big savings you’re talking about. And just one month. John Shegerian: That’s incredible. Jackie Ventura: Yes, it is. 2014-2015, we did it again – challenged them for three months now, almost a quarter of a million dollars in savings over three months for the 80 schools that participated. John Shegerian: Wow. Jackie Ventura: So next year we’re hoping to maybe stir up some healthy competition and get Miami-Dade County involved and maybe have the schools challenge each other. We tell them, “It’s easy, turn off the lights. Have a group of students make a green team and make sure the lights are off at the end of the day. Check the thermostats, make sure they’re at a reasonable temperature. It doesn’t have to be sitting at 65 degrees all day. Check your irrigation. Plant a garden.” It’s very easy manageable steps. It’s overwhelming when you think of it. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: In the grand scheme of things. But when you take it down and you break it apart and you see what you can do, it makes it that much more manageable. John Shegerian: Not only that, your influence on those kids. Jackie Ventura: Yes. And they get recognized. They get brought to a game during Green Week – the first, second and third place winner – we do a little recognition ceremony for them on the court. They get plaques, they get banners, they get a pep rally at their school with Bernie and the Heat dancers – everyone loves our Heat dancers. Sometimes a player will make it out depending. That’s kind of a rough time of the year because it’s the end of the season going into playoffs. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: And all that stuff. So if we can get a player, we’ll get them a player too. John Shegerian: Wow. Jackie Ventura: But it’s a lot of fun, and it’s a great incentive to get them to really rally around this movement and see how they can implement it in their daily lives. John Shegerian: And that’s going to make them think about sustainability for the rest of their lives. Jackie Ventura: Yes. And take it home and barrage their parents into complying. John Shegerian: That’s amazing. Well, sustainability – as you and I both know, Jackie – is a journey. Jackie Ventura: Yes. John Shegerian: What’s next with regards to your journey with the Miami Heat and the AmericanAirlines Arena? What are your goals in the future, now? Jackie Ventura: Well, we are looking to partner with sponsors that have a similar viewpoint that we do. John Shegerian: OK. Jackie Ventura: So we will be installing – hopefully, by the end of the year it will be visible – a canopy with some solar panels, solar rays that will convert one of our plazas into a more functional space and also educate people as to the value of solar panels. Being so far down south in Florida, we don’t have access to a lot of the other renewable energy sources. We can’t harvest wind really. The sun is our renewable energy. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: So solar panels are something that is feasible for people in Miami to do, and there are certain grants and rebates from the government to help you implement, if you choose to do that. So hopefully, if they see it at our place and are like, “Wow. These are cool” – and they’re very beautiful circular panels. John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: They’re not like the grid that most people see and are like, “I don’t want that on my house.” John Shegerian: Right. Jackie Ventura: There are different options. The technology has advanced so much in such a short amount of time and it has made it cost-neutral, so you’re not really going to be spending that much more money on something that is more efficient than on its counterpart. We’re really trying to bring that message home to our fans and are hoping that they can see that, if we can do it and implement it on such a large scale – I’m talking 1,200,000 square feet – you can do it in your 2,000-square-foot home. It’s not that hard for you to implement it. John Shegerian: And speaking of “you can do it at home,” how many other arenas have you convinced, or have come to you for advice that have now become LEED certified in the last five or six years? Jackie Ventura: There are not too many LEED NBA facilities. I think we’re only at about nine. I might be mistaken. John Shegerian: Still. You were the first, and you got nine to follow. That’s amazing. Jackie Ventura: We were the first, so we always try to act as an educator, as a facilitator and try to break it down and make it manageable steps. If you just monitor your data, if you just do a handful of things that we can lead you down, then you can potentially pursue it. Some people don’t want the third party certification. I think it’s a great validator, and it shows people that you are living by a standard. John Shegerian: That’s awesome. Jackie Ventura: Instead of just saying, “Hey, I’m doing this, I’m doing that,” it gives it that validation. John Shegerian: Absolutely. Jackie Ventura: So we try to convince them that the processes can be overwhelming, it can be difficult, but the USGBC is there to help, the GBCI is there to help, I’m here to help. John Shegerian: That’s amazing. And we thank you so much for joining us today. Nine other arenas since you’ve done it. Nine other arenas. If you’ve just been listening today, this has been Jackie Ventura. She is the Head of Operations and Sustainability for the Miami Heat, and to learn more about all the great work Jackie and her colleagues at the Miami Heat have been doing, you can go to www.AAArena.com. Is there a Miami Heat? Jackie Ventura: It’s through the NBA, www.NBA.com/Heat. John Shegerian: www.NBA.com/Heat. And also this is the Green Sports Alliance edition of Green Is Good. You can learn more about the Green Sports Alliance at www.GreenSportsAlliance.org. Jackie, you’ve been so inspirational today. We thank you for your time. You are truly living proof that Green Is Good.

John Shegerian: Welcome to another edition of Green Is Good. This is the Green Sports Alliance edition of Green Is Good here in downtown Chicago, and we’re so honored to have with us today Kunal Merchant. He is the VP of Strategic Initiatives with the Sacramento Kings. Kunal Merchant: That’s right. Go Kings! John Shegerian: Go Kings! Welcome to Green Is Good, and welcome the Sacramento Kings to Green Is Good. Kunal, before we get talking about the great team that you represent – Sacramento Kings – can you share a little bit about your journey in sustainability and ecoconsciousness? Kunal Merchant: Of course. So I came of age when a book came out – if you remember – “50 Things You Can Do To Save the Earth.” John Shegerian: Yeah. Kunal Merchant: This came out when I was at a really young age, so I was transfixed by the book, and it was just so obviously – as a young person – that environmental sustainability and conservation were just no-brainers. So, to be honest, ever since an early age, it’s just always been a part of everything I’ve done. And in college, I was really active in environmental action committees, and then in every job I’ve had, we’re always trying to look at ways to promote the environment, to promote conservation and sustainable development and all those things. So, this is a dream come true that now as a core function of what I do on a day-to-day basis is the same stuff that I used to think about and want to really push forward as a kid, so it’s amazing. John Shegerian: And so you’re a speaker here at the GSA. Kunal Merchant: Yeah. John Shegerian: What do you talk about? What was your platform focus on here at this annual conference? Kunal Merchant: So I loved the topic I got to talk about, which was “Beyond the Four Walls of the Facility,” so it was about talking about these new sports facilities that are coming online. John Shegerian: Right. Kunal Merchant: The Kings are building a new arena. How are we creating an impact not only inside the arena but in the community as a whole? And it is such an integral piece of what we’re trying to do in Sacramento. We always talk about how the arena is bigger than basketball. It’s about job, economic development, civic pride, downtown revitalization, and we’ve put a lot of effort into designing the arena in a way that is going to be transit-oriented that induces more economic development in the vicinity and then also is a model of sustainability and innovation that we hope that our users – be they guests of the arena or our corporate partners – take into their own practice from a sustainability point of view. John Shegerian: And obviously, this is a subject that is near and dear to your heart, being that you were Mr. Sacramento as the Chief of Staff to Kevin Love, so no one knows the community- Kunal Merchant: Kevin Johnson. John Shegerian: Kevin Johnson. I’m sorry. I got the NBA Finals mixed up. You were the Chief of Staff to Kevin Johnson. Kunal Merchant: That’s right. John Shegerian: And so no one knows the community almost better than you, so being able to go outside the walls is somewhere that you’re very comfortable anyway. Kunal Merchant: Absolutely. John Shegerian: And so then being able to integrate the community into your new arena is really something that is near and dear to your heart, to use it as a reason for revitalization and growth. Kunal Merchant: Absolutely. This is a public/private partnership in the most pure way. So yeah, from my government background understanding the real tangible public benefits of moving forward this project while also knowing the benefits to the team, it’s an amazing thing and it’s really fun to be able to see all perspectives and move it all together. John Shegerian: And creating an arena that is not only an asset to the Kings but an asset to the community. Kunal Merchant: That’s right. Exactly right. John Shegerian: That’s awesome. So where is this going? Is this now a theme, Kunal, that you think is going to spread across the United States and across the world in terms of sports venues? Is the asset-based venue now something that all communities are looking for? Kunal Merchant: I don’t think – I’m optimistic, but I think we’ve got a lot more work to do. John Shegerian: OK. Kunal Merchant: I don’t want to rest on our laurels right now. I think certain teams, certain facilities and certain communities get it. John Shegerian: Right. Kunal Merchant: I think Sacramento is a very government-minded town. They understand public policy. They understand public benefit. John Shegerian: Great point. Kunal Merchant: So there is a higher level of sophistication and understanding of the need for these buildings to really work with their environments and to be sustainable. But I don’t think that’s the case everywhere and I think in every community there is still so much more to do. I think we are just scratching the surface and it’s really incumbent upon everybody – the public, the teams, the facilities, the politicians, the stakeholders and the community – to keep pushing us to make sure that it just becomes an expectation that every facility has a very strong and robust green agenda. I don’t think we’re there yet, but I think we can get there. John Shegerian: You’re the VP of Strategic Initiatives for the Sacramento Kings. Besides building this great arena, what else is in your vision plan for the next five years to help the Kings continue to go green and grow green? Kunal Merchant: The arena is just one piece, right? John Shegerian: Right. Kunal Merchant: We have the team. We have our players and our coaches on the basketball side. Then we have the corporate facility, which is all the staff of us. So beyond the arena ops, you just have the business ops. Right now, we’re focused on the arena, but we want to make sure our players are ambassadors for green – how they travel, how they play on the court, how they act in the community. They are also our pride builders and they are also our spokespeople on this. So really drilling down with the basketball operations to see what we can do on sustainability. As a business we’re a major employer in Sacramento. We employ 1,000 people. Let’s make sure that on a corporate piece – in addition to just the arena design and operations – we’re being really big stewards. Then the Kings have a really ambitious mixed-use development project that extends beyond the walls of the arena. It’s going to be 1 billion in investment around the arena and 1.5 million square feet of retail, office, hospitality, etc. that will provide another frontier for us to do some sustainability work, too. John Shegerian: So this is just really – the arena is just really the beginning. Kunal Merchant: It’s just the first domino, and there is a lot more fun after that so we’ve got a lot of work ahead of us. John Shegerian: You know, there are a lot of our listeners and viewers not only here in the United States but around the world that want to be the next Kunal Merchant. How does that work? I mean is that something that you can tell the next gen millennials “go to college, go to grad school, do something special”? What would be your best advice backwards to the next gen? Kunal Merchant: I think if you’re passionate about green, it’s a beautiful time to be in this space. I think it’s young, it’s emerging. It’s volatile in a good way, so you just have to be committed. Look at this space, network, connect with people who are already in it. Talk to me. I would be happy to talk to anyone – [email protected]. Send me an email. I’m good with that. John Shegerian: Wow. That’s nice Kunal Merchant: And if you’re passionate about this space, there are so many different angles. There are so many different opportunities from so many different facets. You could come at it from a public policy point-of-view. You could come at it from a business point-of-view. You could come at it from an advocacy point-of-view. And again, I think we’ve just scratched the surface in terms of the technology, in terms of data, in terms of civic engagement in sustainability, so I think the sky is the limit. You just have to be really passionate and then ideally find an angle that makes sense to you. Are you passionate about water or about air quality or about energy conservation or technology or waste diversion? There are so many different angles. Find something that you really care about and then just run with it and try to talk to as many Kunals as possible, and I’m sure you’ll do better than me. You’ll get far faster and further than me, if you’re really committed to it. John Shegerian: And the Kings website is www.Kings.com? Kunal Merchant: Yes. John Shegerian: Very simple. Kunal Merchant: Yeah, it’s www.Kings.com or www.NBA.com/Kings. Either one will take you to our website. John Shegerian: Wow. That’s awesome. Well, we thank you. Any last thoughts before we have to sign off today? Kunal Merchant: Our goal is to be the greenest team with the greenest arena in the greenest state in the country. And if anybody has been to California, they know that we care a lot about sustainability. So that’s our ambition. We’re going to do it, and you all should come visit Sacramento and see it for yourself. John Shegerian: If there is anyone that can drive that initiative and that goal, it’s you. Kunal Merchant: I appreciate that. John Shegerian: Thank you so much. And for our listeners and viewers – as Kunal said – to learn more about what he is doing with his colleagues at the Sacramento Kings, you can go to www.Kings.com or www.NBA.com/Kings. Kunal Merchant, VP of Strategic Initiatives at the Sacramento Kings, making the world a better place. You are truly living proof that Green Is Good, and we are so thankful that you came on Green Is Good today. Thank you very much. Kunal Merchant: Awesome. My pleasure. Thank you. John Shegerian: Thank you.

John Shegerian: Welcome to another edition of Green Is Good. This is the Green Sports Alliance edition of Green Is Good in downtown Chicago. We are so honored to have with us today Chris DeVolder. He is a Sustainable Design Leader for Sports and Recreation with HOK. You can find HOK at www.HOK.com. Welcome to Green Is Good, Chris. Chris DeVolder: Thanks, John. Great to be here. John Shegerian: Before we get talking about all the great work you’re doing at HOK, can you share the Chris DeVolder story and journey leading up to now? Chris DeVolder: OK. Sure. Well, of all things, I was playing in a band – an Irish band. John Shegerian: OK. Chris DeVolder: And the lead singer was a real thought leader in sustainable design, and he was on a local radio show – this is in Kansas City, where we live – and someone called in and said, “Hey, we’re interested in doing something pretty unique. Do you want to help?” So he asked if I wanted to help. I said, “Sure, sounds great,” extra work, right? John Shegerian: Right. Chris DeVolder: So it turns out that what they wanted to do was to develop an organic sheep farm so they could sell the wool, sell the meat, milk the sheep and make organic sheep’s cheese. John Shegerian: That’s great. Chris DeVolder: And they had set this bar of sustainability at the highest level. Could have been off the grid. They wanted to be connected to the grid. But anything and everything around energy, water, materials, that sort of thing. So he started giving me things to read. I had never really indulged in sustainability and researched it all, and with every book he gave me, I realized this is what we should be doing. At the time, I had two young children and realized there is generational connection there that I had never thought about before. So that’s really how I got started, and just from that day on, I have been trying to implement it into all of our projects, especially now with our sports facilities. John Shegerian: And what is HOK? Can you explain to our listeners and our viewers what is HOK’s macro mission? Chris DeVolder: Sure. So HOK is – in fact, this year is our 60-year anniversary. John Shegerian: Wow. Chris DeVolder: We’re a global design firm – architecture engineering. We’ve got 26 offices around the world. John Shegerian: Wow. Chris DeVolder: And we’ve been a leader in sustainability really since the beginning. It’s part of our culture. You might say it’s part of our DNA, so it’s just a good fit. John Shegerian: And where do you work out of? Which office? Chris DeVolder: I’m out of the Kansas City office. John Shegerian: Kansas City office. So 60 years of history. Talk a little bit about the evolution since it is culturally and DNA part of HOK, then talk a little bit about some of the projects that you’ve done historically and some of the more recent cooler projects that you’ve done that our listeners and viewers can all relate to. Chris DeVolder: Sure. We take the approach that every line we draw impacts life, whether it’s the people that use the building or the people that are connected to them. John Shegerian: Wow. Chris DeVolder: So when you boil it down to that level, it makes you think differently about what we’re doing. So we do that in everything, whether it’s a small office for Google or if it’s a brand new $1.6 billion stadium for the Atlanta Falcons. John Shegerian: Got you. Wow. And so you do both office buildings. Chris DeVolder: Office buildings. Airports. In fact, we just got the new award for the La Guardia renovation and expansion. John Shegerian: Thank you. You are my new favorite best friend. I mean, my gosh. Chris DeVolder: Yeah. Offices – as we mentioned – and sports facilities, recreation centers. John Shegerian: So you do brand-new and you do redevelopment work. Chris DeVolder: Yes, sir. John Shegerian: Wow. Chris DeVolder: Yeah. John Shegerian: And everything has a sustainability or…. Chris DeVolder: We always try to, yeah. John Shegerian: Right. Like you said every line can affect the domino effect of every line that you draw. Chris DeVolder: That’s right. And I think because of our brand – if you will – around sustainability, we have those clients that are really in tune with that that are now coming to us asking us to help them out. John Shegerian: That’s so neat. Chris DeVolder: Yeah. John Shegerian: That is so neat. So talk a little bit about HOK and GSA. How many years has HOK been involved with GSA, and what specifically are you excited about here at this conference? Chris DeVolder: Yeah. Good question. So this is the fifth summit that they’ve had. John Shegerian: Right. Chris DeVolder: This is my fifth summit. John Shegerian: Wow. Chris DeVolder: The first one in Portland, I think there were about 100 of us there. John Shegerian: Wow. Chris DeVolder: It was a small group, obviously, and it has grown to – I think – over 700, 800 this year. So we’ve been supporting them as best we can through membership support or just providing input, helping with panels, that sort of thing over the years, and they are a great resource and a great partner for us. John Shegerian: And you’re speaking at this event? Chris DeVolder: I am. I am actually moderating a panel on how our projects can impact urban revitalization and urban development. John Shegerian: Which seems to be a theme that I hear a lot about here at this conference. Can you share who is on your panel, and how does that look? Chris DeVolder: Yeah. The panel is an all-star panel really. John Shegerian: Right. Chris DeVolder: We’ve got representation from the Atlanta Falcons, who are building the new LEED Platinum stadium – it will be the first LEED Platinum stadium in the world – who happen to be a client of ours. John Shegerian: Right. Chris DeVolder: Sacramento Kings, Kunal Merchant – who you are going to talk to – they are doing a new arena downtown. John Shegerian: Right. Chris DeVolder: Edmonton Oilers. They’re doing a new arena that we’re helping them with downtown. John Shegerian: Wow. And so they’re on your panel, and the thesis is how a new sports venue can take what was potentially historically…. Chris DeVolder: Nothing. John Shegerian: A blighted area. Chris DeVolder: Absolutely. Yeah. John Shegerian: And create new life. Somewhat akin to what the Staples Center did for downtown Los Angeles. Chris DeVolder: Right. It really becomes a catalyst. All three of those examples. They created this intention of “here is what we’re going to do,” and because of it, there is all these other redevelopment that they’re not even associated with that now wants to be part of these districts. John Shegerian: Wow. Chris DeVolder: Yeah. John Shegerian: That is exciting. You’ve seen and been part of the GSA growing from day one. Where are you with HOK and the GSA in the evolution of this, and is this still just beginning times and the massive growth is even still in front of you? Chris DeVolder: I absolutely think it is, John. I think we’re not even crawling yet. We’re just learning how to crawl around this. John Shegerian: That’s good. Chris DeVolder: What I’ve seen in the last five years is it has really grown from a group based in the Pacific Northwest to not just all over the country, but there are people here from – I think – four or five continents this year so the reach is now global. John Shegerian: It’s a global deal. Chris DeVolder: And we’re just getting started. John Shegerian: It’s a global deal, really. Chris DeVolder: It absolutely is. John Shegerian: Because sports is so global, so it makes sense that this would be global. So HOK was always a global company for the last 60 years? Chris DeVolder: Pretty much, yes. John Shegerian: Pretty much. So this just fits perfectly also. So this is not only living your ethos really, but it’s also a great business opportunity also for HOK as with the growth of sports and sports venues wanting to be greener this is a great business opportunity. Chris DeVolder: It absolutely it. John Shegerian: Similarly for HOK. Chris DeVolder: Right. Just like we’ve seen ourselves as a partner to them here in the U.S., we see ourselves as a partner to the GSA globally. John Shegerian: How many firms are there like HOK around the world that are doing green design, green architecture, green building and what kind of collaborative interest do you have in terms of all of you trading best practices? Chris DeVolder: That’s a great question. What’s always interesting to me when I come to the GSA summit is every year I expect that all of our “friends” are going to be here. John Shegerian: Right. Chris DeVolder: And they don’t show up. John Shegerian: Really? Chris DeVolder: So this year, our main competitors – I haven’t seen one person even on the list. I don’t know. John Shegerian: So interesting. Chris DeVolder: Some of our competitors are doing some of this work, and I think if you brought them all together, we could create some great things, but I can’t answer that question. John Shegerian: Wow. That’s interesting. Talk about some of the cooler things that you’re doing in green building now and in green architecture for sports venues and for areas where big people congregate in, a lot of people congregate in. Chris DeVolder: Yeah. Sure. So for the Atlanta Falcons, we’re doing something – as I mentioned a little bit earlier – be the first LEED Platinum sports facility in the world. We’re capturing rainwater, and we’re going to use it to irrigate. One of the really cool things that sounds really simple, but it’s fantastic, is we have this big rainwater cistern and there is a group called “Trees Atlanta” that is a nonprofit, so we put a plug in the cistern so their trucks can come in and plug into the cistern, get water and go for that project. John Shegerian: Come on. Water the trees around Atlanta. Chris DeVolder: Yeah. John Shegerian: Come on. That’s awesome. Chris DeVolder: The list on that project just goes on and on and on, and it has really created a catalyst for the development of the neighborhood. John Shegerian: So you’re really making it a community hub center – really – in many ways. Chris DeVolder: That’s right. John Shegerian: It’s not just eight times a year for eight NFL games. Chris DeVolder: That’s right. John Shegerian: It becomes a 365 day. Chris DeVolder: It’s an asset for the community. John Shegerian: An asset. Chris DeVolder: That’s the best way of putting it. John Shegerian: Wow. An asset for the community. And is that mission – then – is that macro concept for any arena or anything that you’re building now with regards to sports venues making it an asset for the community? Chris DeVolder: That’s always how we go into it. That’s the ideal. John Shegerian: That’s so brilliant. Chris DeVolder: How can it be an asset? How can we add other programs to the building so you can use it 365 days a year? The University of Washington Husky Stadium just opened last year. We actually put a retail store in it because the metro link – the Light Rail out there – is now going to stop next to the stadium. It’s right on campus so people will be able to get off the Light Rail, go to the In-N-Out, grab a coffee – something like that – and go on to campus. So we’re looking for other ways that these buildings can be used other than six or eight times a year. John Shegerian: That is so nice. And – like you say – year-round use hopefully. Chris DeVolder: Yeah. And we’re building the structure. We might as well plug in some programs. John Shegerian: So we’re talking about year-round use. Talk about La Guardia airport. It’s really sad. Being a native New Yorker and having the opportunity to travel the world on business and coming back to La Guardia or JFK or, by the way, many other American airports – LAX hasn’t been touched since the 1984 Olympics. It’s sad to go around the world to emerging economies and see first world, ultra amazing and cool airports and fly back to the USA and almost slide backwards. How do you approach for renovation and one that you then have to or should be thinking about legacy and history but then also thinking about not only today but obviously the future? How do you do that? How do you meld legacy today and the future? Chris DeVolder: When you think about airports they’re really similar to sports facilities. Big surge. You’ve got a lot of people coming through them and what do the people want? They want the bathroom so you’ve got a lot of people in the bathroom potentially. They want food service so you have to deal with concessions. And really I think what they want, John, is a place where they can just get away for a few minutes. John Shegerian: You’re right. Chris DeVolder: Somewhere quiet. So we’re thinking about those sorts of things, not just “how do I get from the entry onto the plane?” How do you make it a place where they’re comfortable? John Shegerian: Wow. Chris DeVolder: And that I think hopefully is the legacy. John Shegerian: And so La Guardia, how many year project is it? You just landed it recently so how many years until we see the La Guardia through your eyes? Chris DeVolder: Oh wow. I think it could be four or six years. I think they’re just figuring that out. John Shegerian: Figuring it out. Chris DeVolder: Projects like that – as you know. John Shegerian: Long term. Chris DeVolder: Yeah, long term. John Shegerian: Long term. And is JFK going to get a similar facelift also? Chris DeVolder: I can’t speak to that. John Shegerian: You don’t know. Chris DeVolder: But if they want to call us we’d be glad to talk to them. John Shegerian: JFK, this is the guy. Chris DeVolder, HOK. What percentage of your projects are new and which are renovation and redevelopments? Chris DeVolder: Good question. So out of the Kansas City office, which is where our sports group is based, I’d say it’s probably 70 percent are new. John Shegerian: OK. Chris DeVolder: But the 30 percent that are renovation, that’s a good market. John Shegerian: Yeah. Of sports venues. Chris DeVolder: Of sports venues. Not everyone is looking to build a new stadium, especially when you look at college campuses. John Shegerian: And is there a lot you can do with a legacy stadium? Chris DeVolder: What do you mean by legacy stadium? John Shegerian: I mean, like an older stadium. Chris DeVolder: Oh sure. John Shegerian: As a redevelopment, is there a lot you can do in terms of bringing it up to standard and beyond? Chris DeVolder: Sometimes I think there is more that you can do because it could be the original lighting, it could be the original plumbing. John Shegerian: So there is a lot of “move the needle” stuff right off the bat. Chris DeVolder: Right. John Shegerian: Cool. Chris DeVolder: Yeah. John Shegerian: That’s really cool. Chris DeVolder: And when you have a legacy stadium that is so historic, especially on a college campus, people love that authenticity. John Shegerian: Yeah, it’s true. Chris DeVolder: So we think about how can we be authentic with our sustainability design and initiatives around that. John Shegerian: Is it hard for you to walk into any public venue – whether it’s an airport, whether it’s a beautiful facility like we have here at McCormick – and not look at it through your own professional eyes and say, “I would have done this better; we could have done that better”? Chris DeVolder: Absolutely. You notice the things that look kind of wonky that’s for sure. John Shegerian: Wonky. Tell us about the future. The future of both HOK and GSA, the future of HOK and the next 60 years and what you could be doing with regards to sustainability, architecture and building. Chris DeVolder: Great question. I’ll start with the second question. I think where we need to be – especially around designing sports facilities – is not just looking at an individual building, the four walls and the roof. We need to be looking at the stadium and the buildings around it and how can they work together. So, for example, if we have a hotel and a stadium next to each other, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. When you’re at a hotel, John, and you get up in the morning what do you want more than anything? Hot water, right? John Shegerian: Right. Chris DeVolder: Well, the stadium isn’t completely shut down so it is generating some heat throughout the night, so how can we take the heat from the stadium and help to heat the water in the hotel so the hotel isn’t having to heat its own hot water? How can we share those assets, those resources back and forth? Those are the conversations that we’re starting to have. It’s what we call a “district approach.” John Shegerian: Wow. Chris DeVolder: That’s where we need to get to. John Shegerian: So really taking architecture, design and building into the shared economy. Chris DeVolder: That’s a great way to put it. I’m going to quote you on that. John Shegerian: I mean, you’re the one who explained it so well that it was easy to say something like that, so wow. Chris DeVolder: But that’s the future. John Shegerian: That’s the future. Chris DeVolder: It has to be. John Shegerian: I never even would have guessed that. Wow. Talk a little bit about GSA and HOK in the future. Chris DeVolder: So, hopefully, HOK and GSA will continue the good work that we’ve done. John Shegerian: Right. Chris DeVolder: We just announced an official partnership this week at the summit. John Shegerian: Oh, congrats. Chris DeVolder: So we’re hoping to build on that. John Shegerian: And what is that partnership called? Chris DeVolder: So it’s really consulting with each other on the makeup of what is called the “Global Leadership Council” within GSA for companies like us to help network, get more people involved, but it’s also – as I mentioned a minute ago – looking at what is the future of sports facilities and the design and the construction and the operation. John Shegerian: That’s great. Chris DeVolder: Getting outside the four walls. John Shegerian: Getting outside the four walls. Well, that’s great. So that just kicked off? Chris DeVolder: Two days ago. Yesterday, we just announced it. John Shegerian: And what are the goals that you made for initial kickoff for that partnership? Chris DeVolder: Really, I’d say the main goal, John, is to develop this piece of what is the future of sports facilities? What does it look like? John Shegerian: Right. Chris DeVolder: So we’re working together right now. We’ve started working on that this spring, and the idea is to release that this fall, and hopefully, that will lead to development and new ideas. It’s really about generating new ideas together of the future. John Shegerian: Got you. Just collaborating even more. Chris DeVolder: Collaborating. Absolutely. John Shegerian: That’s awesome. Well, Chris, we thank you for all your great work in sustainability at HOK and with GSA. We thank you for making our public venue experiences better. I personally thank you for coming in and fixing up La Guardia airport, even if it takes four to six years; it doesn’t matter. Later is better than never. Chris DeVolder: That’s right. John Shegerian: We appreciate all that you’re doing. This has been John Shegerian and Chris DeVolder, who is the Sustainable Design Leader for Sports and Recreation with HOK. You can learn more about all of Chris’s great work and his colleagues’ great work at HOK at www.HOK.com, and you can learn more about the Green Sports Alliance at www.GreenSportsAlliance.org. We thank you for being with us today. Chris; we thank you for making the world a greener and a better place. You are truly living proof that Green Is Good. Thank you for being our guest today. Chris DeVolder: John, thank you. It was a pleasure. John Shegerian: Thank you.

John Shegerian: Welcome to another edition of Green Is Good. This is the Green Sports Alliance Edition of Green Is Good in beautiful downtown Chicago, and we’re so honored to have with us today, Becky Dale and John Marler. Becky is the Manager of Environmental Sustainability Programs at AEG Worldwide and John is the Senior Director of Energy and Environment at AEG Worldwide. Welcome to Green Is Good.

Becky Dale: Thanks.

John Marler: Thanks for having us.

John Shegerian: Well, this is an exciting day. Today, we’re going to be talking about – of course – AEG Worldwide, but also what you are doing here at the GSA annual event. But before we do that, John and Becky – Becky, can you share a little bit about your background, and then I want to hear a little bit about John’s before we get into AEG actually.

Becky Dale: Sure. So my academic background is focused in public policy analysis, specifically focused on environmental policy. I started my career at Southern California Edison – the local electric utility in southern California – working on mostly regulatory issues related to climate change and renewable energy in California. From there, I worked in consulting for a few years and then reunited with my old colleague – John – working at AEG.

John Shegerian: Got you. And John, what does your journey look like?

John Marler: I’ve always been interested in environmental issues and planet Earth. I was a geology major in college. I got my Master’s in Hydrogeology, so that led me to environmental consulting, which led to law school and practicing as a litigator for a few years. Then in 2009 I switched over to the energy side working at Southern California Edison – which is where I met Becky – and then saw the position open at AEG for a sustainability director and went for it.

John Shegerian: For our listeners and viewers out there that want to learn more about AEG they can go to www.AEGWorldwide.com.

John Marler: That’s right.

John Shegerian: So let’s talk a little bit about AEG’s sustainability program AEG 1Earth. Can you both share a little bit about that?

John Marler: Sure.

Becky Dale: Sure. So the program was launched back in 2007 in response to a pretty simple question from our CEO, which was, “What do we need to do to go green?” So, John and I have full-time jobs answering that question, which is a little bit more complicated than that.

John Shegerian: Yeah. And for our listeners out there, explain what AEG does for a living. What do you guys do?

John Marler: OK. We are the leading sports entertainment presenter in the world. We own and operate sports entertainment venues worldwide, from Stockholm to Sydney, Australia. Then, we also have sports teams that we own shares in – anything from Swedish soccer teams to the L.A. Kings hockey team, the L.A. Galaxy MLS team.

John Shegerian: Wow.

John Marler: Then, also, an AEG Live division where we produce musical events, festivals like Coachella and Stagecoach here in California.

John Shegerian: Wow. So then how does AEG’s business goals intersect with sustainability, and how does that make a great business case in terms of, obviously, the old days, where people used to push back and say, “Being greener costs more money”? Now, there is actually an ROI. Can you explain how you intersect that at AEG?

Becky Dale: We do a lot of different things, but most of them happen in large buildings that we run and so we can make a pretty compelling case around energy efficiency, increasingly renewable energy onsite, diverting waste to recycling instead of landfill as tipping fees go up, so a lot of it really comes down to operational excellence for us, and that’s something that our operators agree with because they want to be great at their jobs. Then, our finance people like it as well, because, ultimately, we’re saving on utility bills.

John Shegerian: Wow. And then interrelate that back with AEG’s mission to AEG 1Earth. What does “1Earth” actually mean at AEG?

John Marler: So it’s all about driving business value through sustainability. Becky mentioned operational excellence. In our view having a very low if non-existent environmental footprint is part of being a good operator. And as you mentioned, now that some of these technologies and practices have started to prove themselves financially, it makes it easier to make a business case for it. But one of the things that we also haven’t touched on is kind of the value. We do this because we think it’s the right thing to do. We are very sensitive to our standing and our responsibility in the communities we operate.

John Shegerian: Right.

John Marler: And reducing your environmental footprint, reducing your demand on those resources is just part of being a good community partner.

John Shegerian: Got you. And how do you message all the great work you’re doing to your community base and to your clients that come to your venues?

Becky Dale: It’s an interesting question. So at the corporate level we do have the AEG 1Earth program and we put out an annual sustainability report for our stakeholders – our next one is actually coming out this July – and so that really summarizes what is our annual performance. We report against 2020 goals that we have in the areas of greenhouse gas emissions, water reduction, waste diversion, responsible purchasing and education and communication for our fans. So for anyone who is really interested, the sustainability report is a great resource.

John Shegerian: OK.

Becky Dale: That said, not everyone is going to read the report, so we also try to reach people through social media, in the venues – really, any way we can to get little tidbits of the message out.

John Shegerian: So, when I walk through – for instance – Staples Arena, what would I see there? Is there messaging literally in terms of posters or things more quietly done? What is the messaging in an arena actually?

John Marler: So inside the arena, it’s going to be relatively subtle.

John Shegerian: OK.

John Marler: We want to have well-marked receptacles for waste and recycling.

John Shegerian: Got you.

John Marler: You’ll see some stickers in the restrooms to show that we use environmentally preferable products.

John Shegerian: Right.

John Marler: Paper products and soaps and things like that. The other place you’ll see it is on the venue website.

John Shegerian: Got you.

John Marler: Where we have – Staples Center, for instance, is ISO 14001-certified.

John Shegerian: Wow.

John Marler: So its environmental management system has met that international spec. All that information is on their website, including links to our program and some of their sustainability accomplishments. But the challenging thing with sustainability is a lot of what we do is not going to be readily apparent.

John Shegerian: Right.

John Marler: Energy efficiency. We have 346 kilowatts of solar panels on the roof of the Staples Center.

John Shegerian: Wow.

John Marler: But unless you get the blimp shot, you’re not going to know that’s there.

John Shegerian: That’s right.

John Marler: And so another thing that we do in addition to social media websites and the sustainability report are annual activations. So for Earth Day, Earth Hour and America Recycles Day, we have events worldwide and countrywide to celebrate those and kind of raise awareness in a little bit more tangible way for the fans.

John Shegerian: That’s interesting. So you mentioned energy management. That is obviously big to what you do because you manage so many venues and so many events. What do you do for energy management? How does that look since you’re a worldwide global brand? How does that go?

John Marler: It’s a three-step process and we’re pretty regimented about it. The first thing is to kind of look at the building culture, which what we found is our operators already have great energy efficiency culture. In other words – in our industry, it’s called a “dark day.” When we don’t have an event, the lights, the HVAC, any nonessential electrical equipment is going to be powered down.

John Shegerian: Right.

John Marler: It saves money and it reduces our environmental footprint. Obviously, when we’ve got things going on, our consumption goes up, but through trial and error, they’ve understood how to minimize the usage of energy. So where we can we engage with them on the cultural and behavioral aspects – making sure lights are turned off, that temperature set points are set at appropriate levels or just turned off altogether. The next step is really looking at the infrastructure in the building and finding out are there retrofits that we can make that are going to save energy and save money. So, right now, the big deal is LED lights. The technology has really proven itself, and a lot of the times the payback on those is going to be under three, sometimes under two years, so you’re kind of silly not to do that. Then, when the venue has kind of gotten to the point where their behavior is good, they’ve kind of retrofitted all that they can do from an energy efficiency point of view, we start looking at onsite generation – solar panels, fuel cells, in some cases, wind turbines. We’re also looking into energy storage, which seems to have a lot of promise for the way we run our buildings.

John Shegerian: That’s so interesting. And then data is so important. What you can measure you can manage. How does that go? How do you asses data, gather data – Becky – and manage that data and then, eventually, use it to make your business case?

Becky Dale: Sure. So data collection is a huge part of our day-to-day job. We have an analyst who is basically full-time staff to collect data from our venues worldwide. We work with our partner, Schneider Electric, to use their resource advisor platform through which we can on the web gather data globally. So we have a utility bill management service for a lot of our venues that automatically uploads all of their utility data. We collect waste data that is manually entered by all of our venues. So we are collecting a lot of data – up to 80 individual data points per month per venue – so given that we’re doing that for 70 plus sites, we’re working with a lot of data and we look at that in the aggregate to see how we’re doing as a company, but also we leverage that when we’re looking at specific projects at the venues.

John Shegerian: Got you. If you’ve just joined us, we’ve got Becky Dale and John Marler from AEG, and you can find them at www.AEGWorldwide.com. We’re talking about AEG Worldwide and all the stuff they’re doing with regards to sustainability and making their business case, and we’re here at the Green Sports Alliance, and if you want to find the Green Sports Alliance, you can go to www.GreenSportsAlliance.org. So share a little bit about what you’re doing here today before we talk more about AEG, which we’re going to get into some more questions. We’re here at the GSA annual event. Both of you are speakers. Can you each explain what you’re speaking about here at the GSA?

Becky Dale: Sure. So I’m speaking on two panels. The first this afternoon about how do we engage fans in sustainability, and I’ll be talking a bit about some of how the sports teams that we own; how they’re engaging their fans through a variety of means around recycling, transportation, cleaning up their local communities, a number of different issues. Then, tomorrow, I’ll be speaking about some of our water recycling efforts at a few facilities.

John Shegerian: Great. And John?

John Marler: So, this morning, I was in a session about sustainable development and how sports entertainment venues can kind of be the catalyst for urban revitalization and furtherance of sustainability practices.

John Shegerian: Right.

John Marler: So I was really drawing from our company’s experience with the L.A. Live entertainment district and the Staples Center. Then, we also have projects in London at the O2 complex on the Greenwich Peninsula, in Berlin with the Mercedes-Benz arena and the new entertainment district ruling there, and then also in Las Vegas – we’re partnered with MGM to build a new Las Vegas arena, and then MGM is also going to be putting a new entertainment district adjacent to that site as well.

John Shegerian: Wow. So these are all projects that have really kind of helped us introduce the concept not only of sustainable construction but of how these types of projects can have synergistic impacts on the communities where they’re placed.

John Shegerian: That’s so interesting. If I were to ask both of you to name some – first of all how many people work for – I mean, you’re managing worldwide, all these events, all these venues across the globe. How big is your division?

Becky Dale: Well, the company overall between full- and part-time employees, it’s about 30,000 people worldwide.

John Shegerian: But in sustainability and what you’re doing?

John Marler: So our team of three is located in the corporate office, but our CEO has signed off on our environmental policy, which binds all of our employees to our environmental programs. Then, we also rely very heavily on our operators, our finance and accounting teams, our temporary workers to sort of understand what we’re trying to do and then to make things happen. Oftentimes, actually, a lot of our operators are very passionate about environmental sustainability themselves and a lot of our role is really just collecting the good stories and the outstanding work that they’re doing at the venues and sharing it to the public and to other venues so they can learn from those examples.

John Shegerian: Speak of a couple of our favorite stories.

Becky Dale: Probably one of my favorite ones that I’m going to speak about on my panel tomorrow is Citizens Business Bank Arena – a smaller arena located out in Ontario, California, outside of Los Angeles. Through the pure ingenuity of their engineers, they had been using reclaimed water for irrigation for several years, which is a pretty, not an uncommon practice in southern California.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Becky Dale: But they decided to take it a step further. So they first moved to supplying their cooling towers with reclaimed water, working with the city who owns the building, obviously AEG, the local health department, a number of different people involved in getting that process enacted. Then, from there, the next year, they started using recycled water for hockey ice and became the first hockey arena in the country to do that.

John Shegerian: That’s awesome.

Becky Dale: So I love to see it when people come up with these truly groundbreaking ideas. And John and I had nothing to do with it, so what makes AEG a sustainable company is not us sitting in the corporate office – although, I like to think we help – but it’s these engineers on the ground who are coming up with great ideas.

John Shegerian: But explain something like that. Now, you hear a great diamond of an idea. Are you then able to take that and socialize it across your other venues?

Becky Dale: Absolutely.

John Shegerian: Oh, that’s cool. That’s really cool.

John Marler: It’s relatively larger-scale projects like that, but I also think there are a lot of really fun, smaller-scale projects that may not have so much of an impact on the footprint but kind of really attach themselves in the consciousness. My favorite examples are we have a venue in Australia that posted a food map on their website, which basically shows where all the food and produce that is served in the convention center is located in the region. The convention center attendees love it. The public loves it, because it’s really supporting local agriculture and it really kind of gets at the heart of what we’re trying to do. Another fun example is the Hawaii Convention Center. Most big properties like that are going to have gasoline, diesel or electric golf carts for the service employees. Well, there they have three-wheeled bicycles, so the electricians, the plumbers, the maintenance staff have their own three-wheeled bicycle. They don’t have to use electricity or fossil fuels to get around. It’s quiet. It’s good for their health. Then, they are also allowed to personalize it so they put stickers and decorations and stuff on it, so when you go in the back of house area you see these three-wheeled bicycles. And it’s stuff like that that I think just really shows the only limit to being successful is your creativity and ingenuity and sort of dreaming up these projects.

John Shegerian: That is true. Talk a little bit about the future. Sustainability is a journey. What is next for AEG Worldwide, sustainability and the continued growth and success of your business model?

John Marler: There are a couple of things. From kind of a corporate programmatic level, Becky and I are going to be shifting with the team to recalibrate our company’s environmental sustainability goals. So, right now, we track our progress and our sustainability report to our 2020 environmental goals, which we set in 2010, when we had – I think – 20 some odd facilities.

John Shegerian: Wow.

John Marler: But we now have over 76, and the number of those properties and the diversity of the properties is changing, so we have really realized that we need to recalibrate our goals to better capture how individual businesses operate and also to help drive us to strong performance over the long haul. I think, kind of getting into the operational aspects, it’s going to be on the energy side – and I’ll let Becky speak to the sustainability side – it’s going to be things like LED lamps. Those are really exciting. They’re going to save a lot of energy. We’ve already seen at the venues that have done LED retrofits that they have documented savings. I’m very excited that solar seems to be an emerging option as the cost of solar goes down and utility prices go up. Then, we’re also very excited about energy storage technologies, as I said earlier. The way these buildings use energy is very unique in that we’re kind of dark for a lot of the year, but when we have events we use a lot of electricity, which is actually a really expensive way to use electricity.

John Shegerian: Right.

John Marler: And if you can have a way of buying cheap energy during the week and then discharging the batteries during the event to save on your peak demand, you can enhance your environmental performance and you can save money. So we’re really looking at all these three things on the energy side. And, Becky, I don’t know.

Becky Dale: I mean, there are so many things we can talk about, but I’ll pick one, which is waste. Obviously, sports venues generate a significant amount of waste, and we continue to see breakthroughs in venues going close to zero waste through use of new compostable packaging and partnering with our haulers and, potentially, outside sponsors to kind of bring all those components together. So that is something we’re looking at very closely. And, increasingly, for years, we’ve been applying the business case to energy efficiency, because it’s pretty obvious. With waste, that’s something that we’re coming on to more and more, so we’re tracking our waste costs, we’re monitoring the fact that landfill tipping fees are going up, and we’re trying to start to make the business case more that recycling and composting is not just the right thing to do; it’s also the smart thing to do for your business.

John Shegerian: Speak a little bit about GSA and AEG. How long has that partnership been in place?

John Marler: So if memory serves, I think we joined in 2011 as a founding partner.

John Shegerian: Wow.

John Marler: And right now I think we’re up to 51 members between our sports teams and our sports venues worldwide.

John Shegerian: Wow.

John Marler: And it’s been a really good partnership. We’re speaking, but we also come here to learn. We get to see what other venues worldwide are doing in these areas that we care about, and I always come away with a lot of good tips, a lot of good exchanges with vendors and our peers.

John Shegerian: Sure.

John Marler: So it’s a great event. I’m really happy to be here.

John Shegerian: When you said you were going to create new benchmarks to transcend the 2020 benchmarks you have, what year are you choosing? Is it 2025 now?

John Marler: I think we’re going to stick with 2020.

John Shegerian: OK. Got you. Just a recalibration.

John Marler: It’s still five years away, and the thinking right now is if we start January 1, 2016, to December 31, 2020, that is five years.

John Shegerian: That’s great.

John Marler: It’s a good round number. It’s a good tangible that we can focus on and drive performance, and I really feel personally – at least on the energy side – that the technology and the economics are going to really help us make some pretty marked improvements in those areas. Water is a challenge because the price of water is artificially low, which makes it hard to do capital projects. Then, waste and recycling, I think, is just an ongoing challenge for us and lot of these other venues. I hope that as a society, as an economy we’ll be able to make some progress in that area, but it’s going to be tough.

John Shegerian: It’s tough because commodity prices are low, so it makes it a little bit more difficult.

John Marler: Right. Which was not the case just a few years ago.

John Shegerian: Right. You’re right. Exactly true.

Becky Dale: Yeah. And we also operate across such a wide geography that what works in L.A. or Humbert may not work in Kansas City.

John Shegerian: That’s very true.

Becky Dale: So we are very attuned to the local environment. But as much as I would like to have a regulatory encyclopedia in my head, I don’t, so we kind of have to go from place to place and take the best practices that we developed as a company but always personalize those to the local environment.

John Shegerian: Got you. Well, thank you both for joining us today. And for our listeners and viewers out there, to learn more about all the great work that Becky Dale and John Marler are doing at AEG Worldwide, please go to www.AEGWorldwide.com. This has been the Green Sports Alliance edition of Green Is Good. To learn more about the Green Sports Alliance, go to www.GreenSportsAlliance.org. John Marler and Becky Dale, you’re both making the world a better place and are both truly living proof that Green Is Good. Thank you both so very much.

Becky Dale: Thank you.

John Marler: You’re welcome. Thank you.

John Shegerian: Thank you.

John Shegerian: Welcome back to Green Is Good, and we are so excited to have with us today Johann Berlin. He is the CEO of TLEX. Welcome to Green Is Good, Johann. Johann Berlin: Yeah. Hello. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here. John Shegerian: We’re happy to have you. So, Johann, before we get talking about TLEX – and for our listeners out there that want to find you at TLEX, they can go to www.TLEXprogram.com – talk a little bit about Johann Berlin and your journey in sustainability, and how did you even get to this point? Johann Berlin: Yeah, great. I’d be happy to. So I think it was maybe 10 years ago I got very involved and decided – I started my first startup when I was 21 and decided at a young age – at 23 – that I wanted to commit my energy and my life really to programs that were socially and environmentally conscious and sort of moving the world forward in the right way versus just chasing profit. And I got involved in a lot of different things. I had an incredible privilege to have so many wonderful mentors in those early days. I was the youngest member of a Mayor-appointed commission in Fairfield, Iowa, where we came up with the Community Sustainability Plan looking at all areas of the community. I got exposed to so many different things, but I also – over the years – got incredibly frustrated with the pace of change and how long it takes. Especially stakeholder-engaged change, where there are lots of different pieces and perspectives and you have to sort of meet people where they are and kind of reframe things again and again versus just talking in circles where people are already totally onboard. And what I came to is that – really – change starts with the individual and in mindsets. So, for the last five years, I’ve been slowly committed to working with institutions on creating mind-shift change and broadening perspectives. And there is an analogy or a question that I always pose, which is, “What is more important?” In this case, let’s say a tree, or the mind that perceives the tree? I would argue that the tree is incredibly important, but it’s only important if the mind that perceives it values it and sees its inherent value in nature. So really that’s where sort of the evolution I took was more from a business point-of-view looking at “How can we grow green enterprise?” and had some success doing that but then really realized this is very much a people challenge and a mindset and consciousness challenge. John Shegerian: And so you founded TLEX. What is TLEX, so our listeners can learn what TLEX is? Johann Berlin: Yeah. So I didn’t actually found TLEX. It was part of a larger NGO with the International Association for Human Values. John Shegerian: Oh. Johann Berlin: Who do leadership, environmental work. We’re partners with the UN ECOSOC. Really using the model of leadership development, helping people lift themselves, connect with others and move into purpose and service to do good work in the world. So TLEX is actually the revenue generating arm of International Association for Human Values, and we are working within leading in large institutions, creating sort of mind-shift changes, increasing social connection and really driving people toward greater purpose. John Shegerian: Wow. So here, TLEX – I’m on your website now. For our listeners again, www.TLEXprogram.com. It’s “Transformational Leadership for Excellence.” That’s wonderful. And you’re the CEO. So how do people engage that really want to be mission-based now? How do they engage with your great organization? Johann Berlin: Well, so we work primarily with institutions. John Shegerian: OK. Johann Berlin: So, for example, various companies, government leaders and things of that sort. If people are looking for ways to bring in programming…. John Shegerian: Right. Johann Berlin: To both open mindsets around these kinds of topics or other topics or challenges that they’re taking on, increase the resilience and social connection within those organizations and then springboard them into action. We do a lot of different trainings and facilitation work globally, all around the world. John Shegerian: Wow. Yeah. So you do this work. And how do you approach sustainability, and making organizations move towards making sustainable changes, and making that part of their DNA? Johann Berlin: Yeah. So, one of the things that I learned early on in the sustainability movement is that it’s so multivariable and that it’s always changing, right? John Shegerian: Right. Johann Berlin: So, in many cases, your solution becomes the next problem and/or the ecosystem is changing – whether it be the environment or the people living on the environment. So, ultimately, what we really focus on is cultivating awareness and consciousness. Giving people tools – through breath, through meditation – so that they can increase their awareness. And whenever we can increase our awareness and sensitivity, ultimately, that allows us to tune in more both with ourselves but also with others and nature. Then, what that allows for is for us to adjust as things adjust. It allows us to be present real-time, because that is really where the challenges are, and it’s also where the solutions are. A lot of times something works and then we’re trying to recreate that box again and agai,n but maybe it’s outdated, maybe it only works in certain contexts, so how do we be present and sort of tuned in to the needs of the environment and the needs of various sustainability movements – whether it’s on the human side or on the environmental side? John Shegerian: And you’re consulting to large organizations – Fortune 100 companies, Fortune 500. Johann Berlin: Yes. John Shegerian: And also nonprofits and governmental entities, as well? Johann Berlin: Exactly. Exactly. So we’re doing a lot of work with global leaders around the world. We’re trying to integrate in ethics work into what we’re doing. But one of the things that we realized is that leaders who want to create change, often, they’re taking on tremendous challenges, which requires a lot of capacity and people who care tend to keep taking on more and more. So at the sort of heart of what we’re doing with them is saying, “How can we foster your own resilience so you can absorb those over the long haul?” Then, also “How can we engage others and then move in a more connected authentic space?” John Shegerian: Is this becoming more the norm now? I mean, years ago, this used to be called “crunchy,” this used to be “California stuff,” but are more companies now really getting excited about mindfulness and a 360-degree approach to a person and better leadership, which means a better work environment? Johann Berlin: Absolutely. And leading companies and leading brands. I think, actually, if you look at leadership development of any kind, and particularly in something as holistic as a goal as sustainability, if you don’t have this approach as part of it, it is considered very dated. Like, for example, we have offered full credit courses at MIT Sloan and did a number of programs at Harvard Business School and Yale School of Management. So absolutely. I mean, this is in the next generation of leadership, and it’s similar in the same way to sustainability. If you’re not present, you can’t be present to the dynamic interconnected world that we’re living in. So it’s really at the heart of that. John Shegerian: You get to see and meet a lot of people, and you have tremendous visibility into the state of affairs of where things are going with regards to the social structure of our companies and our NGOs and governmental entities. What concerns you the most about today, the state of the world, Johann, and what are you most hopeful about in terms of what you’re doing and the adoption of your great work? Johann Berlin: That’s a great question. I think just the sheer weight on people is what is most concerning. And, I think, it’s a lot of times we think of companies as sort of the bad guys, but it’s everyday people, it’s people with kids, it’s people with jobs, and that goes all the way from the very top of those entities down to the bottom. And tremendous stakeholder pressure on them. So I feel that almost a lot of the bad we see in the world or the negative choices is actually just a side effect of that pressure and just sort of the weight. And I also think a lot of people have kind of burnt out and maybe lose hope. What I find most promising is that I find people to be inherently sincere about wanting the world to be a better place and whenever they have tools to sort of – one – cope with the demands on them but ideally through building more individual resilience, through building more heart connection and authentic kind of community that the resonance with moving toward more purpose-driven initiatives is resounding, and it’s really what people are looking for. And to your earlier question – more and more people are looking for it. So that’s incredible. That sort of tick upwards in trend toward more individual consciousness and collective purpose-driven work is very encouraging. John Shegerian: So if one of our listeners is at a big company, or at an NGO, or at a governmental entity, and they want some training there in mental clarity, social connection and inspiration, they’re coming to you, TLEX. Johann Berlin: Yes. www.TLEXprogram.com. John Shegerian: Awesome. Yeah, www.TLEXprogram.com. So how many years have you been running this, Johann? Johann Berlin: Four years. I have been running the North America division. John Shegerian: So talk a little bit about your success. What milestones are you the most proud of during those four years, and what are you the most grateful for in the work that you’re doing which is so important? Johann Berlin: Yeah. So what I’m most grateful for – I’ll work in reverse – is the people. I love working with people, and I sincerely appreciate how much they’re willing to do to improve their lives, improve the outcomes of their companies but also improve the outcomes of the worlds in many cases. So people are definitely what give me my energy every day. And to the first part of the question – do you mind repeating it? John Shegerian: Oh, the first part was just – I guess the second part was “what were you most grateful for,” but the first part was your milestones. What interesting milestones are you the most proud of when you go to bed at night and you think about the last four years? Johann Berlin: Yeah. So I think it’s making these sort of topics very relatable to people and teaching them through experience versus just telling them. It’s one thing for me to say, “When you have more personal resilience you are able to take on bigger challenges.” John Shegerian: Yeah. Johann Berlin: It’s another thing when people lead feeling that. So, I think just meeting people where they are, making incredibly complex topics very relatable and integrating it in massive institutions around the world has been quite a challenge, but it’s also such an opportunity to really think about how we discuss these types of topics and how can we leave our own perspective and figure out how to bridge those communication and interpersonal gaps that often get in the way of letting good work happen. John Shegerian: We’re down to the last two minutes, Johann, unfortunately. Where do you want TLEX to be in the next five years? Where can it go? Johann Berlin: So, from my side, I would love to see us continue working with global leaders around the world, and I think that’s really a key piece is that the leaders see the benefit in these sorts of things. It’s easy to come up with systems, strategies and goals, but it’s incredibly difficult to come up with resilient, high-performing teams that can take on massive challenges. And so, to continue that work but at a very global level, I think. John Shegerian: Got you. And for our listeners out there that want to engage with TLEX or learn more about it, they can go to www.TLEXprogram.com. Any final thoughts, Johann, before we say goodbye today? Johann Berlin: No. I just want to thank both of you for the wonderful work you’re doing in promoting interesting ideas and people, and I’m so very appreciative of your work, and it was great to be with both of you. John Shegerian: Oh, that’s so nice. Thank you, Johann Berlin, for sharing the TLEX Program story with our listeners today. You are truly making the world a better place and truly living proof that Green Is Good.

John Shegerian: Welcome back to Green Is Good and we’re so excited to have with us today Jeffrey Seder. He’s the “Entremanure” or really the CEO of EQB. You can find EQB at www.EQB.com. Welcome to Green Is Good, Jeffrey Seder.

Jeff Seder: Thank you. Happy to be here.

John Shegerian: Hey Jeffrey, I was so excited to do this interview with you because I heard you before on the radio and in other interviews and you are truly doing unique and amazing work in the field of horse racing and data analytics, and so before we get talking about your company and some of your massive recent successes with the Kentucky Derby and the Triple Crown winner – American Pharoah – I would like you to share the Jeffrey Seder story. How did you even get or come up with this business enterprise of consulting and helping the greatest stables in America choose the best horses?

Jeff Seder: Well, I took a ride one day in May at a rental stable in Southborough, Massachusetts – while I was in law school – with a girlfriend and I fell in love with horses, and I just went crazy with it, and I ended up owning a horse and learning how to ride a racehorse and this and that and the other. Then I was getting JD-MBA degrees at Harvard, the law and business.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: And my thesis advisor was Archibald Cox. You may remember him from the massacre in the Nixon and Watergate.

John Shegerian: Yup. Sure do.

Jeff Seder: If you’re old enough. And I hadn’t done my thesis by like March. I didn’t even have a topic. So I had to sit in his office and he said, “What are you working on?” and I had to admit, “Nothing.” And he said, “Well, what are you interested in?” and I looked down and I said, “Horses,” and I thought he was going to kill me. And instead, he reached – his office was in the stacks way down deep in the library, a little desk in the middle of a corner of dark library stacks – and he reached around behind him and he took this huge book out from behind him, and he clopped it on the desk, and the dust rose up, and he said, “This is the statute that governs horse racing in Massachusetts and I don’t think anyone in Harvard has ever looked at it so why don’t you look at it?” And I went crazy looking at it. I studied it, and I went in the archives in Boston and the capital there, and I went to the racetrack at Suffolk Downs, and I ended up getting an “A” on it, and I learned a lot. I decided I really wanted to do something with horses, and I loved animals and outside. I was too big to be a jockey and I didn’t know anybody in the sport. I didn’t have any money, really, and I didn’t have any connections, so I couldn’t own them or train them. I thought, “Well, I know stuff they don’t know.” I’m looking at what they’re doing, and they’ve been doing it the same way for 300 years.

John Shegerian: Whoa.

Jeff Seder: And I can bring science and modern management. So I decided I would try to do that. I graduated in 1976, when the East Germans broke on to the scene with all these medals and scared the shit out of everybody. United States and Russia used to compete for medals, and all of a sudden this little country was doing it supposedly with mad scientists getting kindergarteners and training them and providing them with gold and science stuff. The United States created a response – and I was a young lawyer. I was part of creating what became the United States Olympic Sports Medicine Committee, so I got to work with the guys in biomechanics and exercise physiology and all the sports science stuff. Then I broke away to do it for racehorses, and that’s how it started. Way back. I was doing Moneyball before Moneyball.

John Shegerian: You were doing Moneyball before, and you were doing it for racehorses.

Jeff Seder: Yeah, for racehorses. It took a long time in the – we had professors from MIT and doctors from Harvard and veterinarians from the University of Pennsylvania Veterinary School and New Bolton Center, and we had statisticians, and we had biomechanist from the United States Olympic Sports Medicine Committee when it was just starting. I put together a hell of a team and we did a lot of work. We spent a lot of time and a lot of money and it finally came together after a long time. Meanwhile, I had another job. I was still leveraging my house, so I could afford to do the research.

John Shegerian: Ah.

Jeff Seder: Otherwise, I would never have done it.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: And what separates me from a lot of the other guys who are trying to do what I’m doing is it takes huge databases, and it took a lot of time and a lot of money. I’m probably in the major referee veterinary journals on – when I do a study – I mean, some people do 10 horses on a treadmill and ponies on a lab in a treadmill.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: I was doing 10,000 major racehorses at major racetracks, following every split of the races over 10 years and publishing scientific papers about it and getting them in referee journals, even though I didn’t have a veterinary degree, because I had all these luminaries in different disciplines at major universities designing and carrying out the studies. We did some good work.

John Shegerian: Wow. So, really, what sets you apart – and I want to talk about what you exactly do for our audience out there – but as you were doing a day job, but for years you amassed all this science and all this data that no one else can do overnight if they want to go in and say, “I want to be the next Jeffrey Seder”; you can’t do it overnight. This is a lifetime of work you’ve put together to get you to this point that you are today.

Jeff Seder: Yes, it is. There aren’t that many American Pharaohs; there aren’t that many Kentucky Derby winners, so if you want to have a lot of them and know what they looked like when they were babies, you have to pay your dues and put in the time and you have to look at a lot of horses.

John Shegerian: Right. Talk a little bit about what you do at EQB. Tell our listeners what you do and then we’ll get more into the American Pharaoh story, because there are a lot of questions I want to ask you about that.

Jeff Seder: It’s not just the difference, knowing the difference between an ordinary horse and a great horse because that is – a lot of good horsemen could do that. But it’s to know the difference between a good horse and a great horse that gets really tough.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: Well, my job is to bring to somebody A. when we’re looking to buy a horse, young horses.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: Or breed them. By the way we’re also – our major client we’ve been working with for 10 years has also become the leading breeder two years in a row in the United States and a leading racing stable. Eclipse, that’s the brand.

John Shegerian: Really? Wow.

Jeff Seder: But what we do is we have people who are really good at traditional stuff, which is how the horse is put together, a confirmation in the pedigree and all the traditional horsing chip between trainers and jockey. And, on top of that, we overlay whatever is a practical noninvasive use of science and medicine. So we use slow motion photography, and we digitize it to look at how they run and all the different parts of the stride. We also look inside the horse at the size and the shape of the major organs that affect that exercise physiology – the heart, the lungs, the spleen. We look at the size and shape of the windpipe. We look at the functioning of their larynx and their epiglottis because – I don’t want to get too technical on the radio but a lot, a lot of horses when they are under stress in a race they are breathing – the larynx and the epiglottis start interfering with the air flow and it stops them. That’s why a lot of horses will go a short distance and then kind of just can’t go any further.

John Shegerian: It’s from an entrapped epiglottis.

Jeff Seder: Yeah. Things like that. Or just other exercise intolerances in the airway stuff. So there are ways to look for that and help predict it and that’s another thing we do on the horse. Then once somebody own the – another thing we can do is we can look at horses that ran four-and-a-half furlongs early as a two-yea- old and won the race, which may or may not mean anything, and we can know who will be able to – as a three-year-old – go a mile-and-a-quarter in the Kentucky Derby in a competitive time by extrapolating how their fractions and how they run, that logarithmic fatigue curve and their fatigue patterns, which was developed by the United States Olympic Committee to look at things like repetitive motion – stuff like swimming – to see if somebody – younger kids – would be swimming 25 yards, extrapolating it out to what they might be capable at at 100 yards for example. And it works, and we’ve been doing that for – we developed huge databases so we know the logarithmic – the shape of the logarithmic curves and how it changes as they get older so we can extrapolate what these young horses will do. So when a horse wins by 10 lengths in its first start in a very short race, when it’s very young, we know whether it’s something that we want to try to buy or whether it’s no big deal, and when it gets a little older, it’s not going to be – at long distances it’s no big deal. And by the way like 90 percent of them are no big deal.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: You don’t want to buy them even though they look great in that first race. But then there’s the rare one. So we help on that, buying them off the track. We help buy them at auctions. Once they have the horse, we can continue to help in what kind of race, what distance they’re most appropriate for and what surface. We can spot early lamenesses before it’s really showing up any other way, the tools that we have. Then when they go to the breeding shed, we can help know who they should be breeding to because we have massive databases of who is a match in terms of the heart and the lungs and the spleens and all the other major organs and the way they’re put together. So it’s been successful – I’d say – in helping one of our major clients over 10 years become the leading racing owner, winner of races and the leading breeder in the United States two years in a row.

John Shegerian: So talk about the success. And I know you’re a very humble guy. I know you and I have shared emails and stuff. But, I mean, talk a little bit – I want our listeners to hear – because we only have a limited time today – how successful are you? How many of the leading stables do you consult to, and how do they now really need to leverage your data otherwise they will be behind the other stables? How big are you now and how successful have you become?

Jeff Seder: Well, we’re a boutique, but we do work for six of the top 10 stables in the United States.

John Shegerian: Unbelievable.

Jeff Seder: And our record at graded stakes races – I don’t know how many people know it but there’s an international committee that grades stakes – those are the top races. So there are a zillion stakes races out there. They could be for $10,000 in Okefenokee Downs.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: The graded stakes are much – there are only 500 in the whole world. There are 100 of them in the entire world, grade one stakes like the Kentucky Derby or World Championships and there may be a little over half of those in the United States. Less than one-half of 1 percent of the horses can win those kinds of stakes. It’s usually a once in a lifetime thing. We’ve had three or four just in the Kentucky Derby that we bought for clients every year the last four or five years. And we’ve had 37 grade one wins in the last five or six years.

John Shegerian: Wow.

Jeff Seder: And I don’t think there is anybody else that has come close to that track record. And we buy – by the way – for these clients we are buying at below average of the auctions where we go to. We’re not buying the sale toppers that everybody else is.

John Shegerian: Right. You’re watching their pocketbooks at the same time.

Jeff Seder: Well yeah. It’s not on purpose, but it just turns out that way. I see all the time million dollar horses that you couldn’t give me. I found a hole in them and I don’t want them and they don’t run. They don’t run.

John Shegerian: Wow. And for our listeners who just turned in, we’ve got Jeffrey Seder on. He’s the CEO. He’s really the visionary and the genius behind EQB. To learn more about EQB, go to www.EQB.com. Now we’re going to get to what our listeners really want to talk about. They want to learn about American Pharaoh. I heard you, Jeffrey, before the Triple Crown ever took place. Before any of the races I heard you in an interview, and I want you to share part of this with – this is how fascinating and how visionary you really were. You – on this interview I heard before any of the races were run – said, “His lungs are bigger, his left ventricle is bigger, his heart is bigger,” and you even talked about his knees and how they don’t buckle back when he gallops – his front knees – which most horses their knees buckle back. Can you share with our listeners all the data points that you knew? The only thing that you said then before any of the races were run is that, “We don’t how he’s going to be in the head when he’s roughed up a little bit, but physically, he’s a super horse.”

Jeff Seder: Yeah, we didn’t know when he had to run against the really top in the world, and they look each other in the eye going up the stretch like firing line.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: And at the end of that Kentucky Derby, some horses will just back off, and you don’t really know ‘til they’re challenged whether they’re going to.

John Shegerian: But I want to talk about lungs, hearts and knee buckling, then I’m going to talk about the Derby, specifically, because I have some questions for you. But talk a little bit about testing. You had tested – like you said earlier – part of EQB’s business is you know the lung size, the heart size, the knee buckling. Talk a little bit about Pharaoh and how he was truly a super horse based on your data.

Jeff Seder: I think that a regular horseman would have thought he was a really beautiful specimen. He had all the traditional stuff. He looked the part. But when you watched him run his stride was much longer and easier at the same velocity. He would fool you about how fast he was running.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: So you wouldn’t really know unless you had a stopwatch, and then you’d think maybe you did it wrong. I watched. I just completed an auction here. I just watched 1,200 horses at racing speeds that are at an auction, and I do that all the time. I watched many thousands of horses, and I take them apart in slow motion, and I digitize them, and I’m looking for the things that go wrong. Their ankles wobble and oscillate, so you don’t know what angle their foot will be when they put it down. It would bear about 8,000 pounds. They’re 1,000 pounds going 40-miles-an-hour. There is at least 8,000 pounds on their leg when they do it right. When they put the foot down wrong, they usually chip this or it hurts or they get tired or they scrape things, and when they run, they put all their weight in their foreleg, the whole leg kind of buckles and it bends the wrong way in most racehorses. They wing, they don’t bring the legs straight back and straight forward. They wing. It kind of loops around a lot of them. Or they go forward with their knee kind of, and then when the knee gets to the end of the knee, then the rest of the leg comes upward instead of sweeping it from the shoulder, so it’s a low clean action. They don’t reach under themselves all the way with their rear feet – like a greyhound – so that the rear feet are literally coming ahead of where their girth is before it touches the ground. And a horse like Pharaoh, when he puts down his two hind legs, before the front legs come down, the whole horse is going upward like a rocket. It’s an angle. There is so much power there to be able to push this 1,000 pounds, and it’s not just push forward, but it’s push upwards. So the stride is longer, so he gets a foot or two more than the horse next to him with exactly the same effort every single stride when he tried. Plus, his spleen is much bigger. They were cheating in the Olympics – the Russians at one point spurred by blood doping themselves. They would give themselves transfusions of red blood cells before the race, so they would have a higher blood [inaudible] and higher red blood cells to carry the oxygen. But in a horse like that, the spleen contracts. It’s a huge organ and it can dump almost double the red blood cell volume, and this horse has a huge spleen, so he literally is just blood doping himself when he comes out of the starting gate and that spleen contracts.

John Shegerian: Wow.

Jeff Seder: And then he’s got a heart that is more efficient. It’s bigger, the muscle quality is different, the shape of it is different, the chambers are bigger, the thickness of the walls is bigger. I mean, usually, we don’t give details of anything about our clients or what we do for them.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: But I don’t see how it can hurt for people to know that this horse is so special, especially in ways you can’t even see special too.

John Shegerian: Wow.

Jeff Seder: Yeah.

John Shegerian: Wow.

Jeff Seder: And I think he can pass it on, because we see that when they’re that – that’s how we help people in the breeding and we help participate in helping Ramsey become the leading breeder of the United States because we’re picking out these very special physical specimens and that’s what you should want to breed to.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: A horse that has no holes in him. Not one that won one race and had a break year. One that not only was able to win but had everything that had an extra chance at getting the advantages physically.

John Shegerian: And just to be clear for our listeners to hear this part, Jeffrey, you were the ones who told the Zayats, “You cannot sell this horse at the auction. You have to buy him back.”

Jeff Seder: Well, they were our clients and our job there was to find them yearlings, tell them who we think they should buy and stuff.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: So our report to them was, “This is what we’re looking for, this is the one you own,” and I know he was going through all kinds of things. They had a bankruptcy within the year or so of that.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: All kinds. So there was some pressure to sell. But a good horseman would have told them that this was a great beautiful yearling, but I think our opinion had a little more weight because it was beyond that. It’s not just really one of the best looking horses you can find, it has got everything else that is so rare, even in the good-looking horses. So that was our report. “We can’t give you a list of who to buy because you should take this one home.” So we did. And I can’t say I was the only one who thought it looked like a nice horse, but I think I’m the only one who really knew that it was an American Pharaoh.

John Shegerian: Amazing. You said it before. I heard your interview before any of the races were run, so now I’m watching the Derby. I had just listened to your interview a week before, and now I’m saying, “Let’s see everything that Jeff talked about, lungs, heart, spleen, the knee, his knee action, his back feet, everything.” Now I’m watching, and now he goes out there – and I used to be in harness racing so I’m very in tune to racing around the rail and saving ground – and I’m watching Pharaoh. He is three wide in the first turn, he is four wide in the last turn. How many extra feet did this horse have to run just to win the Derby? I’m like, “If he survives this mess, he could – Jeff’s right – he’ll go on and just blow them down.” I mean three wide and four wide. How many extra feet – for our listeners – did he have to travel just to win the Derby then? The horse that ran around the world.

Jeff Seder: I hadn’t calculated, but it didn’t matter because he was getting a foot or two every stride on them.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: And he just had so much more. And those were good horses. This was one of the best crops this year. They say, “Well, who did he run against?” He ran against some of the best horses in the world in one of the toughest years ever. But you know I’ve also done the opposite before races. there was a horse – the most expensive horse ever sold at auction was called The Green Monkey and right after the action – and they printed this in the Thoroughbred Times, one of the major magazines – they came to me and said, “Well, what do you think of his stride because it was so beautiful?” and I said, “It’s the wrong stride. It’s the stride they use coming out of the starting gate.” You only end up in that stride if you’re a green and not a good enough athlete to change your stride fully at full speed, and you end up caught in between them – what is called a “cross gallop” – and he did that the whole way. And it’s more energy and it looks terrific, but it’s a disaster to try and do it in a race. And they printed that, and that $16-million horse turned out to be a complete bust. So I’ve done the opposite as well. When everybody was freaking out about the horse, I said, “Forget it.”

John Shegerian: So once he came out of the Derby Sound, then he took them all on in the stretch. After being around the three wide and four wide, takes on all the comers in the stretch, looks them in the eye and keeps coming. Wins the Derby.

Jeff Seder: Yeah, and he did it in the mud, too.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: He did it in the mud. I thought the best race was the Derby, though, because Firing Line – it was the first time American Pharaoh had to run hard, had to try.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: And he had given him a lead, and he came around there, and then he pulls up next to him, and he’s running and Firing Line did not give in and he is a great horse.

John Shegerian: Right.

Jeff Seder: And he was not going to – he was going to have to really show something extraordinary, and he just kept going and finally he got the idea and away he went. Then, after that, I think that was he finally discovered what was really being asked for. Then they didn’t really have to hit him again. They had to hit him a lot to get him to wake up and say, “Now’s the time guy, wake up.” But in the Preakness and in Belmont, they didn’t have to hit him at all. He knew what he was supposed to do. He knew that when they guy shows him the stick that means “now,” and away he went. And it was fast. Every split after the first quarter, every quarter in sequence was faster than the one before. Every one. There was no fatigue curve. That in itself is a modern miracle. You never see that on the dirt race.

John Shegerian: Well, explain what you mean, Jeffrey, because I know what you mean but our listeners don’t. Whereas your theses and the sciences about every horse coming to the finish line, even if they’re winning, they’re slowing down. Explain what you mean, though.

Jeff Seder: Well, in a dirt race – it doesn’t always happen in the grass.

John Shegerian: But in the dirt races when you see a horse passing another horse, making a big move at the end of the race, he is usually still slowing down. He is just slowing down slower than all the other racers.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: In the entire race, they’re generally slowing down, and it follows a predictable logarithmic velocity decay curve that you can calculate, and it’s pretty characteristic for each horse, so that’s how you can extrapolate and predict things. So you can nail it for each horse. Unless they get hurt or they’re sick or something, it stays that way. So what was extraordinary about this race was there was no fatigue curve. Just after the first quarter he started speeding up and he kept speeding up from there on, and every quarter was faster than the next one.

John Shegerian: Unbelievable.

Jeff Seder: It’s no wonder that Frosted and that other horse – the other horse is trying to get – there is no wonder they couldn’t keep up with him, because he is a freak. Those are really good horses he was putting away at the Belmont Stakes. And by the way his time was about two seconds slower than Secretariat’s but when Secretariat ran the Belmont Stakes, there were two things that were different at least. I think there was four inches less cushion on the Belmont racetrack.

John Shegerian: Wow.

Jeff Seder: So it is a deeper racetrack now. Plus, the drug testing was a lot more primitive back then.

John Shegerian: Wow. Interesting.

Jeff Seder: So a lot of the horses back then had caffeine and God knows what else. But anyways. So I think this was really an extraordinary performance.

John Shegerian: And you had a lot to do with it.

Jeff Seder: Well, I had something to do with it.

John Shegerian: Well, you were part of the team.

Jeff Seder: Yeah, I was part of the team. But Zayat is a colorful guy, but he is a very bright guy. He works very hard. He’s got a lot of the really good people. There are Kaplans in Ocala who helped raise the horse and break the horse. Everybody who had anything to do with that horse was really good at what they did, and I think that’s also very important.

John Shegerian: Including Bob Baffert.

Jeff Seder: Including Bob Baffert. Absolutely. Bob Baffert. Including Bob Baffert. A lot of people think the good trainers are only good because they get all these good horses.

John Shegerian: Nah.

Jeff Seder: Commonly, they’re good horsemen and they’re good managers. The horses are so fragile, their minds and their bodies. These things are like….

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: They’re like fine-tuned race cars. They’re very fragile and any little thing – 500 things can screw you up permanently. And good trainers, they dot every “i,” they cross every “t,” they’re not just great horsemen, they’re great managers. So Baffert, yeah, he is.

John Shegerian: Hey, Jeff, we’re down to the last minute-and-a-half, and I want to leave you with the last words. So what does the future hold for EQB? And for our listeners out there, to find Jeff, it’s www.EQB.com, because if you’re interested in racehorses he is the guy. What is the future? You’re coming off this huge massive success story being part of a team – American Pharaoh. What is the future for Jeff Seder and EQB and for your clients?

Jeff Seder: You know, I just don’t know. It’s been a lifetime effort to get to here.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: I’m 66 years old. I may just start training other people to do this and write a book. I don’t know what I’m going to do, but I know that we’re going to stay boutique-y. We’re not just going to spray it all over the place. There aren’t that many great horses so you can’t give one to everybody.

John Shegerian: Yeah.

Jeff Seder: But we are looking for good people to work with, and there are more good horses out there than people know. We still go to auctions all the time and find a horse we love, and we can’t find anybody who wants it because they don’t like the pedigree, they don’t like this, they just don’t trust us. So there are still horses there that can be found for somebody, if they want them.

John Shegerian: And you don’t have to win the Kentucky Derby to have fun in the horseracing industry either, right?

Jeff Seder: No. I [inaudible] and I love the sport.

John Shegerian: Yeah. Well, Jeffrey Seder, thank you so much for coming on and joining us today and sharing your story of EQB and your own personal story with our listeners. You are truly making the world a better place and are living proof that Green Is Good.

John Shegerian: Welcome to another edition of Green Is Good, and we are so honored to have with us today Ron Loch. He is the Managing Director of Sustainability Consulting at G&S Business Communications. Welcome to Green Is Good, Ron. Ron Loch: Thanks, John. Glad to be here. John Shegerian: Happy to have you, and before we get talking about all the great work you’re doing at G&S Business Communications with your colleagues, can you share the Ron Loch story, please? Ron Loch: Yeah. Certainly. I guess, I’ve always been rooted in an interest particularly in the environment. I started out in fisheries and wildlife biology about 30 years ago, and soon came to discover, though, that I’m a rather math-challenged person and was always good at communications, so I pivoted and went into journalism. About six years ago, as I was getting along in my career – I have been with this agency for 28 years – I wanted to look at maybe making a change, get more inspired after such a long period of time and realized as I looked around that sustainability had become a great business challenge that companies were dealing with, our clients were dealing with, and so I went back to school and got a Master’s Degree in Managing the Sustainable Enterprise and started the consulting practice within G&S Business Communications and focused on that ever since, helping companies figure out their sustainability strategy and communicating that to their stakeholders. John Shegerian: And were you happy – as you said, pivoted – has that pivot turned out to be the right pivot for you? Ron Loch: It absolutely has. I have a lot of passion for this and it is a critical issue that all companies are dealing with, and so we just keep seeing the market increase for a company like ours to help them identify issues and communicate what they’re doing around the relationships with society and the environment. John Shegerian: That’s great. And for our listeners to learn more about everything that Ron is doing at G&S Business Communications, you can go to www.GScommunications.com. It’s really easy, www.GScommunications.com. You just have published a Sense and Sustainability Study. Can you share a little bit about what that means and what’s in that study? Ron Loch: Sure. Yeah. We started this six years ago when I began the practice just to gauge where general consumers in the U.S. are in relation to sustainability and corporations. And so this year, in our sixth study, we asked some questions around understanding not only of sustainability but also of science, and we found that nearly 40 percent of Americans don’t feel real comfortable with their practical understanding of science. Also, what we’re finding is many Americans don’t have a sufficient grasp of how companies can practice sustainability. And when we talk about sustainability, we’re asking them questions around the well-being of the planet, people and community, so it’s both environmental and social issues. John Shegerian: And so how do you think – why is this? Why are Americans so uninformed when it comes to sustainability and how can we improve that? Ron Loch: Yeah, I think one reason is that if you look at most companies – and certainly, there are certain companies that sustainability is part of their marketing efforts – but largely the information that consumers are exposed to have nothing to do with that relationship that the company has with the environment or society, and they really would have to dig very deep into investor relations or on their corporate website to find that information. So I think the lack of accessibility is one of the critical issues that we’re seeing influencing this. Then there is also just – I think – an unhealthy skepticism still. John Shegerian: Ah. Ron Loch: People have been fed this idea that you can’t be a good business and also really care about environmental and social issues, and I think that comes into play as well. John Shegerian: Interesting. So since, as you say, there is a skepticism towards business about being green – because there has been so much green-washing, frankly, as you and I well know – how do you help businesses raise their visibility and get the credit and build the reputation for being green when they’re doing the right thing? Ron Loch: Yeah. One of the keys is really focusing on those issues where they can have the greatest impact and that takes an analysis of what kinds of products of services they offer and what that entails so that the issues that they talk about are ones where they truly can have an impact on the environment or on the local community. Some of the green-washing comes from aspirations that have nothing to do with the business, and if you can’t impact it through your business, you’re not going to have results, so that’s first, is just making sure that you’re addressing relevant issues. Then, from there, it’s really being transparent in setting goals and not being afraid to talk about not achieving those goals but really through storytelling, addressing the progress that you’re making and also the impact that it’s having. Sometimes we’re hiding behind legalese and data-driven jargon and what’s lost is the real positive impact even the smallest activities can have on improving the environment or improving the lives of people ‘til we really push getting a better level of storytelling out in front of consumers. John Shegerian: And, Ron, what kind of companies come to G&S Business Communications for your services? Is it huge multinationals? Is it smaller, locally oriented businesses? How big or small are the companies, and then what are they looking at in terms of what is pushing them now to want to market or message more sustainability or their green behavior? Ron Loch: For the most part, it is large companies – Fortune 500, some Fortune 1,000 companies that we work with – and we’re finding their value and interest largely is their public companies, and there is just rising investor interest in sustainability. So that’s one. Another is just what social media has done, which means nothing is really opaque any longer with companies. Everything is pretty transparent and there is this recognition that your activities – people will know where you have a relationship with a community within your supply chain, the environmental conditions within the supply chain. And then lastly is just experience in approaching these issues and realizing the value that is inherent in having a strong sustainability strategy. John Shegerian: Right. Ron Loch: It’s not just about mitigating risk and a lot of companies did get to sustainability with the idea “how do we mitigate our risk,” particularly environmental risk. But now what they’re seeing is you can also reduce cost, but more importantly, you can create tremendous value through innovation and differentiation if you have a very robust sustainability program. John Shegerian: Are people who are – if it’s Fortune 500 companies that are walking through your doors – is it companies that already have sustainability programs or is it really driven by a CEO who says, “Hey, listen, we’re going to hire or promote our first chief sustainability officer. We’re finally going to create that position, and I want you to work with Ron to now create a whole suite of messaging and opportunities at the company so we can get some wins and then we can message those wins?” Is it across the board already people who have programs and then some others that you have to create? What kind of groups of Fortune 500 companies are coming to you, and how much do you have to do for them? Ron Loch: It’s both. And in some cases it’s companies that have been focused on sustainability as long as 15 years, and what they’re coming to us for there is, “How can we tell this story better? How can we communicate with our stakeholders more effectively?” In other cases, particularly in this year – and it’s often companies that are a little further up the supply chain, maybe in industries where they have not had to communicate a lot because they’re business-to-business, they don’t have a lot of customers and now they’re realizing that they’re getting questions from their investors. Or they may be getting questions from their downstream customer, who has got a very robust reporting program and they need kind of the scoop to know what issues should be refocused on, what kind of strategy should we have and how do we effectively tell this story? So it really does vary. There are companies at every stage of the sustainability journey right now. But one trend, I will say that I’m seeing, is just the questions from investors and customers is starting to drive greater awareness about the business importance of sustainability. John Shegerian: That’s great. And for our listeners who just joined us we’re got Ron Loch on with us. He is the Managing Director of Sustainability Consulting at G&S Business Communication. To learn more about what Ron is doing and his colleagues are doing at G&S Business Communications, you can go to www.GScommunications.com. So your sense and sustainability study has been published, and it’s evolving in terms of the information that you gather. Talk a little bit about – we love to offer solutions on Green Is Good, Ron, and we have lots of business owners that listen to this show. What are some ways businesses can make their efforts to go green more appealing to their clients or potential clients? Ron Loch: Yeah. Well, our study found a couple things, and one is to really humanize or soften the language. We took terms to see what would resonate the most with consumers, and when you look at the terms that are resonating most, “human rights” and “wildlife protection” are much better than “deforestation,” “carbon footprint,” “climate change.” So it does make sense when you sit back and think about it from a communications standpoint. Babies and animals still sell in advertising, right? And I think what this is telling us is while we have to focus on the broader issues – for example, deforestation because deforestation as an issue has tremendous implication both for human rights as well as wildlife protection – but when we get down to the point of telling the story of what we’re focused on and the impact that’s having, not losing that element, that kind of soft emotional element that’s speaking about how fellow community members are benefitting or how we’re benefiting animals that live within the forest, that’s a much more compelling way to reach these people. John Shegerian: Interesting. Ron Loch: Another would be not to ignore the news media. John Shegerian: Yeah. Ron Loch: The news media by and large – and this has been tracking year-to-year – is still very important for a source that people go to to understand what businesses are doing around sustainability. News media gets more than 50 percent. After that, it’s word-of-mouth, which is 40 percent. So the news media is very, very important. We would think social media but compared to news media, social media is 32 percent of the consumer’s say that that’s where they’re going for that information. John Shegerian: Wow. Ron Loch: So it’s critically important. And the CSL reports, only 15 percent say they’re going there for this information. So those are very important – the CSL reports. They’re important for investors, they’re important for industry. John Shegerian: So interesting. Ron Loch: But to fully get your story out there, they do need to look at multimedia approaches. John Shegerian: Right. So you can’t just go all – what you’re saying is you can’t just go all in on social and forget everything else just because your kids are now all over Facebook and you say, “That’s the way to go.” You’ve got to give a diverse approach to getting the message out. Ron Loch: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think you could probably make the argument that the social media – oftentimes kind of the wellspring of what is being shared would start in your traditional news media. John Shegerian: Now, you deal with lots of brands big and small, Ron, obviously. Talk a little bit now – let’s continue what you were just saying about getting the message out. Talk about generational differences. I’m 52, my son is 22. How do you reach 52-year-olds and 22-year-olds? Ron Loch: Yeah, that’s a good question. Again, I do think it’s – first and foremost – the stories will still resonate. John Shegerian: Yeah. Ron Loch: You’re both going to be associating with those stories that make it easy for you to understand how a program is benefitting, whether it’s people or the environment. That mix again – you may be more inclined to the news media where your son may be more a social, but collectively picking both of you up, you’ll get that word-of-mouth, which is second most important. What’s interesting, though, is our study would show that your interests in this topic is going to vary widely where your son’s generation is really looking for this information whereas our generation isn’t as much. In fact, we found that about a quarter of consumers are not interested in learning how companies are going green. John Shegerian: Wow. Ron Loch: And that was largely driven by our generation. John Shegerian: So you’re saying a quarter of consumers. But what’s the number when it comes to the Millennials then? Is that number much bigger if you broke them down just on generational issues? Ron Loch: No only 18 percent of millennials would say that they’re not interested. John Shegerian: Wow. Ron Loch: Versus the older Gen Xers, younger baby boomers, which would be defined at 45 to 54. John Shegerian: That’s us. Ron Loch: That was 29 percent. John Shegerian: Wow. Ron Loch: So about a third of our generation is saying they don’t really care to know. John Shegerian: Wow. Ron Loch: And by and large, millennials at 18 percent was the ones who care the most. John Shegerian: Yeah. What is the biggest misperception about green technologies and sustainability right now? Ron Loch: That they’re costly or don’t perform as well as so-called traditional approaches. It kind of gets to that skepticism I brought up earlier. We’ve been led to believe that these approaches always cost more money or deliver a product or service that isn’t up to par, and that’s just not the case. What we see is companies seeing tremendous innovation and growth by addressing the challenges that we have with the environment and society. John Shegerian: That’s so interesting. So this whole fallacy of “I don’t want to go green” or “I don’t want to take my company green because it costs more money” is really just a bunch of hooey really, Ron. You’re saying really if companies do it right and they work with folks like you and other great leaders, they can make it great for the bottom line and make it cultural at their company. Ron Loch: Absolutely. And the thing is it goes beyond the hard costs and returns. Every study will show that employee retention and recruitment are improved by pursuing a sustainability program. And there is a cost associated with that, and obviously, there is value associated with that. The innovation and product line growth that can come from addressing these challenges is huge. So it’s not just cost reduction by improving your energy footprint. There are so many different ways that businesses are gathering value by addressing the challenges that we face both on the environmental side and societal side. John Shegerian: And we’re down to the last minute. What’s the biggest catalyst for companies to become greener? What did you learn in your sense and sustainability study and in all your work? Biggest catalyst for companies to become greener? Ron Loch: It’s just what I was saying. It’s really the business value that can be derived through reduced cost, growth and value and mitigating risk. John Shegerian: I love it. Ron Loch: Yeah. John Shegerian: That’s great. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of [inaudible]. Ron Loch: It’s a better business, basically. John Shegerian: Yeah. Yeah exactly. And for our listeners to read your sense and sustainability study, they can contact you? Is that how they get it? Ron Loch: Yeah, or they can go on the website that you’ve given – www.GScommnications.com – and there is a button on there that they can go access the study. John Shegerian: Wow. Wow, that’s awesome. So for our listeners out there, again, this has been Ron Loch – the Managing Director of Sustainability Consulting at G&S Business Communications – and to download the Sense and Sustainability Study that he did, go to www.GScommunications.com. Thank you, Ron, for sharing the G&S Communications story with our listeners today. You are making the world a better place and are truly living proof that Green Is Good.